8 ms·
Repatriate the gold': German economists advise withdrawal from US vaults
- drumhead 9mo agoOr move it to Canada. One of the advantages of the US was that it was far from Europe and safe in case of invasion or war. The US clearly cant be trusted anymore , but Canada can, and it also across the atlantic.
- maxilevi 9mo agoCanada wouldn't be able to defend from an invasion
- Hikikomori 9mo agoAnd dont give trump any more reasons.
- gucci-on-fleek 9mo agoAn invasion from who? I agree with you that Canada couldn't defend against an invasion from the US, but I also don't think that any country without nuclear weapons could defend against an invasion from the US. But I think that Canada could probably defend itself from an invasion from most other countries—the Canadian military is generally competent, and NATO and NORAD would almost certainly offer assistance. Even then, who would want to invade Canada? Despite the recent political blustering, it seems incredibly unlikely that the US would invade Canada, and the only other plausible invader that I can think of right now is Russia, but their military isn't doing very well at all right now.
- toyg 9mo agoIf the threat model is "the US goes rogue and does crazy stuff", Canada is a prime risk of suffering from such madness, so moving your resources there doesn't really change anything.
- gucci-on-fleek 9mo agoAgreed, but I'd argue that there's a big difference between the US making it difficult to access gold reserves stored there and invading/blockading Canada to the point where gold reserves stored there are unusable. The first seems unlikely but possible, while the second seems almost unimaginable, and even if the second does happen, I'd be more concerned about access to food/medicine than access to gold reserves. (Although I'm Canadian, so this may perhaps just be wishful thinking on my part)
- expedition32 9mo agoThe Netherlands has spread it's gold in London, Canada and New York. This policy came from the late 1930s when secretly the government knew that Germany was likely going to invade.
- causalscience 9mo agoWait, I've watched this episode before. The US owed France large amount of gold (the legal mechanism for this was called "the dollar"). France asked to redeem their dollars for gold, and the US said "nah, we're keeping it, enjoy your dollars". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock#American_policy_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock#American_policy_re...
- hliyan 9mo agoThat was the end of the US dollar convertibility to gold. This, unless I'm mistaken is actual French property held in US vaults.
- sph 9mo agoTangentially related to the above Wikipedia article: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
- slater 9mo ago"Let me lay to rest the bugaboo of what is called devaluation." yeahhh thanks Tricky Dick, how did that work out for us...? :D
- evanjrowley 9mo agoRelated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46741989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46741989
- rwmj 9mo agoIs there any point to a country having gold reserves? What is it being kept for? (Genuine questions, looking for factual answers)
- cdecker 9mo agoStores of value are, for the most part, societal constructs. Anything has value as long as there is somebody willing to exchange something of theirs for it. That's also what makes value intangible as there is a built-in subjectivity in this. Gold falls into the category "has always had value, so it will always have value" type of thoughts. And that's just what gives it value, out confidence that we can exchange it for something when you need it.
- dtech 9mo agoIt's almost the definition of a store of value. If it was actually useful it's called a strategic reserve, like for oil.
- eesmith 9mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_reserve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_reserve > A strategic reserve can be ... A commodity, such as intervention stocks of food or petrol ... > Examples of commodity reserves: Global strategic petroleum reserves ... Gold reserve
- toyg 9mo agoIt can be used as a collateral for loans, last resort for currency buybacks, emergency resource in times of war... Mostly it's a reputational tool to inspire faith in the country's creditworthiness.
- evolve2k 9mo agoIntangible financial systems rest (simplistically speaking) on fundamental concepts of trust and reliability (aka what I expect to happen will happen). Once these factors start to breakdown, all these intangible forms of holding wealth loose value. Gold remains as a significant reliable long term store of value. Hence it’s worth maintaining by a nation.
- GuestFAUniverse 9mo agoSell. It's the cheapest option vs. moving (high risk). $164 billions would make a nice investment into infrastructure without touching their "Sondervermögen".
- toyg 9mo agoSelling that amount of gold would crash the price, devaluing their other reserves too. What they have to do is move, but quietly, without announcing it.
- GuestFAUniverse 9mo agoNot all at once, obviously.
- youngtaff 9mo agoGold is moved around the world all the time
- GuestFAUniverse 9mo agoYet it's costly -- albeit they might get special conditions. I hold Xetra Gold (tax free gains after 12mon). Some argue it's safe, because it can be delivered to the relationship bank: it's not really, it's uneconomical, at least for average Joe (~3% up to ~20% of value, heavily depending on denomination).
- cap11235 9mo ago[dead]
- surgical_fire 9mo agolol I doubt the US will honor this agreement. It is a profoundly untrustworthy country.
- mariusor 9mo agoI can imagine the next big budget heist movie being written about this as we speak. An armada of ships traversing the Atlantic with 1K tonnes of gold being waylaid in the middle of the ocean by a huge storm when unidentified submarines bore a hole in the cargo ship and make off with the gold: Oceans 15.
- austin-cheney 9mo agoRay Dalio describes such actions as the beginning of the end.
- watwut 9mo agoGreenland thing and taking Russia side were beginning of the end. Lying about America never getting help was making the end loud and clear. This is just Germans dealing with end being unavoidable.
- tchalla 9mo agoThe beginning of the end started with Nixon. It allowed US to print whatever money and never default. I find it insane that the world went along with it. Seems like a parody.
- microtonal 9mo agoIt's what Carney's speech alluded to when he cited Havel's The Power of the Powerless [1]. The sign was put in the displays because it was the best thing to do for the vassal states. Those days are slowly ending, more and more countries are going to stop displaying the sign. This is also what at least part of the Americans doesn't get. Europe, Canada, Japan, South Korea, etc. weren't freeloaders, they were doing the bidding of the US in the UN, maintaining the system where the US can print money without limit, etc. All that soft power has been destroyed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_the_Powerless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_the_Powerless
- lm28469 9mo agoThe beginning of the end started when they came up with project 2025 really, they've been implementing what they said they would implement.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- tock 9mo agoIt's kinda weird how Dalio has been predicting a fall for a while now.
- tjpnz 9mo agoI hope they've identified US assets of equivalent value to immediately sieze if there's any funny business.
- llbbdd 9mo agoIt would definitely be fun to watch Germany try to lift that sword.
- exe34 9mo agoRammstein?
- usr1106 9mo agoRammstein is a band. Ramstein is the most important US military bases in Europe. I guess you meant the latter?
- exe34 9mo agoAha, yes!
- airspresso 9mo agoThank you, was confused there for a second XD
- Fnoord 9mo agoWell, they did write this lyric around 2004: (hook) We′re all living in Amerika. Amerika ist wunderbar. We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika. (verse) Wenn getanzt wird, will ich führen, auch wenn ihr euch alleine dreht. Lasst euch ein wenig kontrollieren. Ich zeige euch, wie es richtig geht. Wir bilden einen lieben Reigen, die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen. Musik kommt aus dem Weißen Haus und vor Paris steht Micky Maus. (hook) We're all living in Amerika. Amerika ist wunderbar. We′re all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika. (verse) Ich kenne Schritte, die sehr nützen, und werde euch vor Fehltritt schützen. Und wer nicht tanzen will am Schluss, weiß noch nicht, dass er tanzen muss. Wir bilden einen lieben Reigen, ich werde euch die Richtung zeigen. Nach Afrika kommt Santa Claus und vor Paris steht Micky Maus. (hook) We′re all living in Amerika. Amerika ist wunderbar. We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika. We′re all living in Amerika. Coca-Cola, Wonderbra. We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika. (outro) This is not a love song. This is not a love song. I don′t sing my mother tongue. No, this is not a love song. (hook) We're all living in Amerika. Amerika ist wunderbar. We′re all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika. We're all living in Amerika. Coca-Cola, sometimes war. We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika.
- BartjeD 9mo agoGood idea, Netherlands should follow suit. The fed is being dismantled in front of our eyes. Militia's shoot US citizens for documenting their illegal behavior. Insane
- cbeach 9mo ago[flagged]
- watwut 9mo agoThey just murdered a guy who was not obstructing them. They kidnap, beat and then throw away citizens and legal migrants.
- indubioprorubik 9mo ago[flagged]
- saubeidl 9mo agoSo, thought crime? I thought right wingers were all about individual freedoms, now all of a sudden you want to dictate the values of your fellow citizens?
- SilverElfin 9mo agoNo one is required to integrate. You can think freely and be who you want. First amendment.
- indubioprorubik 9mo ago[flagged]
- lurking_swe 9mo agoi just replied and then saw the comment was flagged LOL. For those that missed it the flagged comment said something stupid like “don’t obstruct ICE and you’ll be fine.” They are misinformed i’m afraid. This is the BEST case scenario: https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-immigration-us-citizen-detained-hmong-d009590a491c0c8243ef21ef24db7182 https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-immigration-us-citizen-... worst case scenario is you’re sent to another country, or killed.
- onetokeoverthe 9mo ago[dead]
- louthy 9mo ago> Germany holds the world’s second-largest national gold reserves after the United States, with approximately $194B worth — 1,236 metric tons—currently stored at the Federal Reserve in New York Moving that much gold makes me think that’s a great opportunity for the world’s biggest heist!
- cjs_ac 9mo agoThat's going to take a lot of Minis!
- louthy 9mo agoHang on a minute lads, I've got a great idea...
- Brajeshwar 9mo agoThis is why, “I trust everyone. It’s the devil inside them I don’t trust.”
- beAbU 9mo agoNot really, a Mini Cooper has a payload capacity of 450kg according to some googling. That gives us ~2.7 Minis. If we factor in the weight of the driver, then we can comfortably get away with 4 Minis, each taking 312kg of gold which leaves us with 138kg per Mini for the driver and any gear that might be needed for the heist.
- phpnode 9mo agoYour calculations are off by some margin. Assuming 312kg per car, it would take 3962 minis to transport it all, somewhat more than the 4 you accounted for. Of course you could do this with 4 cars over a thousand round trips - I'm not sure which option is most likely to lead to success, I suspect both might arouse suspicion.
- beAbU 9mo agoD'oh! I just realized my mistake. For some reason I equated metric ton with kilogram in my math.
- seydor 9mo agoJust cash it out. They'll never get it back
- fkdk 9mo agoI agree that they will never get the gold back, but is it really more likely that the US hands over that sum in cash?
- bell-cot 9mo agoGiven a certain President's thin skin, and inclinations toward dramatic and confrontational behavior - if the Europeans actually wanted their gold back, it should have been done very quietly. Probably with obfuscated paperwork, or other shell games or smokescreens.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- aebtebeten 9mo agoGermans. We (also European) thankfully already got our gold back.
- gsf_emergency_6 9mo agoThe dividing line from alephnerdXMeyer https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46733802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46733802 https://magdamiu.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/13.png https://magdamiu.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/13.png "Frontman" reactions to Carneyism: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jim-csek-cpa-cma-10118726_this-one-is-a-must-watch-mark-carney-is-activity-7420968179130105857-amoK https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jim-csek-cpa-cma-10118726_thi... (Lagarde= lower upper class?) https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/courageous-carney-vs-demented-donald https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/courageous-carney-vs-deme... https://www.ft.com/content/b4c07b4d-dd15-4a42-b744-ea4b5f6966ee https://www.ft.com/content/b4c07b4d-dd15-4a42-b744-ea4b5f696...
- aebtebeten 9mo agocolorised*: https://imgflip.com/i/aidj8a https://imgflip.com/i/aidj8a (I also think it's remarkable that GR and ES now rate so deep blue; both were literally fascist within my lifetime) upper middle? (went to good schools and even worked before public service, where she is known mostly for what she does) * Goethe, eat your heart out. Colours from 2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index#List_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index#...
- direwolf20 9mo agoWhy do they think the US will give it to them? After all, last time this happened, the US didn't actually have the gold, it cancelled all gold IOUs — effectively stealing the gold — and that was the Nixon shock. It made the US very wealthy for the next half century.
- faust201 9mo agothis. Especially USA may use all those gold to build a Gold White House.
- niemandhier 9mo agoThat would be more or less equivalent to defaulting on government bonds, in the sense that the latter are only backed by the buyers trust that the US will pay them back. The result would be catastrophic for the US: worst case would be a domino cash in of American debt.
- SilverElfin 9mo agoMany Trump supporters actually believe a collapse of the dollar would be a good thing, and that Trump has a plan, because of (some vague bogeyman about the federal reserve). They don’t realize or want to admit that this would mean they would become poorer overnight.
- B1FIDO 9mo ago[flagged]
- expedition32 9mo agoWell there is that "project 2025" that we were told wasn't real. There's an amusing anecdote about the Dutch queen who asked the prime minister if he read Mein Kampf. Everyone is just desperately pretending none of this is happening.
- direwolf20 9mo agoIt already happened — see Nixon shock — and was enormously beneficial for the US economy.
- hunglee2 9mo agode-risking from the United States is the only choice for anybody who cares about national interests. The question is how to do it on the quiet, and not trigger Trump into another rage tweeted escalation.
- microtonal 9mo agoJust not talking about it and doing it slowly seems to work? E.g. one of the Dutch pension funds has pulled 1/3rd of their investment of US bonds (10/30 billion) since early 2025. They won't talk about, you'll only see it in their public records/reports. They re-invested the money in Dutch and German bonds.
- hunglee2 9mo agoyeah this is probably the way. One of the features of fascism is general incompetence, springing from destruction of state capacity in favour patronage networks.
- ArtTimeInvestor 9mo agoIf the USA cannot be trusted that they will honor the ownership of gold in their vaults, can it be trusted to honor the ownership of US equities and bonds held by foreigners?
- cluckindan 9mo agoObviously not.
- Hamuko 9mo agoAt the moment you can't really trust the US with anything.
- pfdietz 9mo agoI wonder what they'd do if the US starts reducing NATO commitments. A perception that Europe is using financial blackmail to keep the US in NATO would have interesting effects on US politics. Anyway, it's been clear to me that this sort of thing was Trump's plan all along. The goal is massive and permanent reduction in the size of the federal government. If that requires crashing the US ability to borrow more money, and crashing the value of the dollar, that's a price he's willing to make the US pay. US reputation abroad is of absolutely no importance to him; indeed, it's a negative, since a positive reputation allows borrowing that sustains the large federal government he hates. The lesson for Europe is that depending on the US to defend them was a poisonous mistake, even if a very seductive one. A post-crash US would be poorer, but also much more economically competitive. This would tend to encourage investment, so it's an interesting question how far the dollar would actually decline. I wouldn't want to be in South Korea or Taiwan (or Japan, really) in this scenario.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9mo agoTrump likes to frame is as if Europe said: "Please, USA, protect us, and we will just parasite on you and abuse our relationship to our advantage". Whereas in fact the whole story is the other way round. For example there were limits on the size of German army not that long time ago. And the USA did everything so that its interests are well represented n Europe. Now that Trump plays his "We don't need anyone" theme, the former allies of the USA are forming their own alliances, reduce spending in the USA and no longer feel obliged to turn a blind eye on things that were bothering them for decades. The only reason why other countries sent their soldiers to stupid wars in Afghanistan and Irak that made no sense then and make no sense now was because they were honoring their commitments and saying OK, we send people to die but if the worst come and Russia attacks us, The USA will do their part. Now Trump openly says all this was for nothing. All trust in the USA is gone as nobody knows what Trump does when he wakes up next day. So we quietly work on making the best of the current situation.
- pfdietz 9mo agoI'm less interested in performative statements and more interested in underlying motivations and incentives. It's not a question of who is "right" but of what the actors get out of it. Of course Europe was leaning on US defense. This enabled resources to be diverted to social spending instead, something that has become all the more vital as populations age. And it's not clear what the US gets out of defending Europe now. There's no perceived Soviet juggernaut and Russia can't even conquer Ukraine.
- CrzyLngPwd 9mo ago[flagged]
- hugodan 9mo agoWar is coming. Act accordingly
- aussieguy1234 9mo agoI've heard all the gold is headed for Singapore nowdays
- sdoering 9mo agoTo be clear: I find Trump contemptible. But I also try to understand why (powerful) people act the way they do, beyond the surface-level explanations. The gold discussion imho misses the point if it’s reduced to “Trump is unhinged.” What we just saw at Davos with Greenland reveals the actual pattern: the theatrics are the tool, not the objective. The erratic behavior generates uncertainty, which then gets converted into bargaining leverage. With Greenland, Trump just demonstrated how this works: maximum escalation (tariff threats against a NATO partner), then “backing down” in exchange for concessions (“total and permanent access”). The result is a structural shift - Europe becomes more dependent on US decisions in the Arctic, not less. The second-order effect: coercive bargaining within the Western alliance becomes normalized. Once you’ve done this with Denmark, the threshold drops for similar tactics on other issues - tech regulation, China policy, financial infrastructure. The third-order effect for German gold: the real question isn’t whether Trump is “crazy enough” to freeze gold reserves. The question is what negotiating leverage the mere possibility creates. Even if the probability is 5% - what concessions would Germany make to bring that risk down to 0%? That’s the actual logic: the more everyone believes he might do it, the more he can “sell” not doing it. The economists aren’t arguing that (or if) confiscation is likely. They’re arguing that the risk is no longer negligible enough to ignore - and that the cost-benefit calculation of storing it there has fundamentally shifted.
- hilsdev 9mo ago>What we just saw at Davos with Greenland reveals the actual pattern: the theatrics are the tool, not the objective. The erratic behavior generates uncertainty, which then gets converted into bargaining leverage. He said this in his book The Art of the Deal, released in 1987. It’s been his playbook for all political campaigning and both terms of his presidency. It’s a meme to point this out in certain right leaning circles. I was frustrated by the lack of awareness about this for awhile. I still am but I understand now that the media is also playing their part and doing their role. It’s absolutely justified - these ridiculous claims and arguments generate clicks, attention, revenue. It’s something that should be kept in mind by the average voter though, and in social media discussion. Everyone wants you to be emotionally invested. Trump wants you to commit so he can pump fake tou, and the media gets solid quarterly numbers
- 9mo ago
- surgical_fire 9mo agoI seriously doubt the US will honor this, and will likely just keep the gold for itself. It is a profoundly untrustworthy country.
- andrewstuart 9mo agoGood luck with that.
- metalman 9mo agoI am absolutly certain (without knowing or checking), that many of the germans involved in putting there gold in US hands, did so "reluctantly". And now with panzers in the ukrain for the 3'rd time they are looking back overthere shoulders thinking right, general winter in front and our gold back there and how did they get in this mess anyway, reluctantly. Some of the men who mentored me, spoke of there experiences going ashore in France and pushing on into Germany, which they did at great personal cost, but in spite of that, enthusiasticly. Every time Russia publishes a "routine" update on there sovereign gold reserves it must make the euros twitch, with the germans developing a prounounced tick. which is all my way of saying that I can find no way to sympathise.
- haizhung 9mo agoWhy not just … sell the gold? What good is gold to a society anyway, regardless of where it is placed? Instead of drawing the anger of the US, just .. slowly over time, sell all the gold off, and move the money back. And use it to build infrastructure or something. Much better than gold.
- fmajid 9mo agoIt's probably too late. They should have heeded the wisdom of Charles de Gaulle: https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2024/10/05/why-france-repatriated-3313-tonnes-from-new-york-and-london-in-the-1960s-003516 https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2024/10/05/why-france-repat...
- amadeuspagel 9mo agoAnother question is why germany owns $530B worth of gold in the first place. This gold isn't backing a currency in any sense, if that is even how we still think about gold and currencies today. The opportunity cost of holding this amount of gold is immense.
- thewileyone 9mo agoThis is the end Hold your breath and count to ten
- rajnathani 9mo agoEven India recently has repatriated some of its foreign gold reserves (from Bank of England (and possibly other places)): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-10-29/india-central-bank-accelerates-repatriation-of-gold-held-abroad https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-10-29/india-cen...