4 ms·

These sort of shenanigans for even basic lanekeeping makes a very strong case for more open source solutions like comma

greenpresident 9mo ago
Pressing the lane assistant button on a Mercedes steering wheel and getting a “you’ll need to activate your subscription first” message really drove up my blood pressure.
- hermanzegerman 9mo ago
  You know you can just buy it?
  - greenpresident 9mo ago
    It’s built in. There is a dedicated button for it. Hard to justify imho.
  - b40d-48b2-979e 9mo ago
    They already bought the car.
    - whynotmaybe 9mo ago
      I'm wondering whether it's a generational vision and that the concept of ownership of software with hardware is slowly becoming obsolete. Every young adult I know uses a subscription for everything I used to buy. Even though they own the device on which they consume it. Spotify for cd's, Netflix-Disney-Amazon for vhs and dvd's, Udemy-Masterclass for books.
      - tzs 9mo ago
        CDs were around $16 in 2000, which is equivalent to around $30 today, which is around 2.3 times what a Spotify premium subscription costs for one person. Equivalently, a Spotify premium subscription in 2000 would be a little under $7. I guarantee that if you asked young adults in 2000 if they would be interested in a subscription that lets them listen to nearly everything available on CD, at any time, as often as they wished, for $7/month they would have been ecstatic. Same for DVDs, which were typically in the $20-25 range for new releases in 2000. They would not have been quite as happy as they would have been with Spotify because of the way video is split among several streaming services, but it would still be seen as a tremendous improvement.
    - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
      Yes, despite knowing that it's not included. It's like hitting yourself and complaining afterwards about it
  - GoatInGrey 9mo ago
    In this case, they bought and currently own the sensors and hardware that the ML model is stored on. Moreover, the software runs locally. It's a silly example, but you can think of it as buying a house and the ceiling lights requiring a subscription to turn on. As an aside, I wonder how long this can keep up before it begins affecting laws around theft and property damage if the person operating, storing, insuring, and maintaining the physical objects don't contractually own them. Is Mercedes a victim if the LKAS camera gets damaged or stolen, rather than you?
    - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
      I mean they surely knew this before they bought their car and bought it anyway. So I don't get the complaint Are you sure they bought the ML Models? The Hardware is inside because it's required for the emergency lane keeping, but I wouldn't be surprised if the OEMs would have a deal with the supplier where they are paid more if this feature gets enabled
  - Banditoz 9mo ago
    You're missing the point.
- wolvoleo 9mo ago
  And the EU companies are surprised a lot of people buy Chinese now. Screw the subscriptions. I don't care how much the shareholders want them.
  - burnte 9mo ago
    > Screw the subscriptions. I don't care how much the shareholders want them. Agreed. The investor requirements of any company mean nothing to me as the consumer.
- moolcool 9mo ago
  Woah, which model was this in?
  - greenpresident 9mo ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/mercedes_benz/comments/1oq9xum/active_steering_assist_is_now_a_subscription_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mercedes_benz/comments/1oq9xum/acti... This is an example of what I am talking about.
nabakin 9mo ago
And right to repair
rootusrootus 9mo ago
My Comma 4 arrives today, and I think it will be great (using it with my Lightning, not my Model 3), but I think it is just a temporary solution that is effectively a dead man walking. The latest cars are not usable with a Comma and likely will never be, with manufacturers locking down the CANBUS with encryption.
- fc417fc802 9mo ago
  Literal anticompetitive behavior in the name of safety. The more of them that move to subscription services the better the chance the scheme gets legally challenged I figure.
  - rootusrootus 9mo ago
    I hope it does. A bit of regulation clarifying that I own my car would be nice, with a requirement than I be given the encryption keys on request.
foolfoolz 9mo ago
it’s a standard feature on all models for many brands today
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
ews 9mo ago
Comma can be installed on a tesla, I've seen a couple of them already driving around the Bay Area
mikkupikku 9mo ago
Very strong case for keeping your hands on the wheel, eyes on the road and drive the car yourself.
- wing-_-nuts 9mo ago
  I do. My current car only has regular old cruise control, but it would be nice to have ACC and lane centering for longer drives.d
  - tzs 9mo ago
    My car from late 2005 to early 2025, a 2006 Honda CR-V, only has regular old control. That's now my backup car and my main car is 2025 Hyundai Kona EV with adaptive cruise control. I too thought it would be nice on long drives, but really it hasn't made that much difference. Like everyone I speed on the freeway, but not as much as everyone else, so it rarely has to actually adapt. :-) The place I've found it makes a huge difference is stop and go or near stop and go traffic. You can't set it to a speed below 20 mph, but if the car it is following goes below that it keeps working all the way down to 0 mph. (You don't have to be going 20 mph to set it. You can set it if you are going above something like 3 or 4 mph, or if you are stopped and there is a stopped car ahead of and it thinks you are on a street. It just sets the speed to 20 mph when you set it under those circumstances). If the car ahead starts moving again within a few seconds it will automatically follow. If longer it will beep once when the car ahead starts moving and show a message about the lead car leaving. Tapping the accelerator or flicking the cruise control speed adjust switch on the steering wheel will resume following. Not all adaptive cruise control systems work all the way down to 0 mph. Some cut off well above that. Some only work down to 0 mph on higher trims. Making sure I get one that does is now on my "must have" requirements for any future car.
  - mikkupikku 9mo ago
    I genuinely don't understand what role lane centering serves if you really do keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. It doesn't steer the car if you're steering the car yourself, not when I drove cars that had it. What am I missing? The only point of cruise control is to take your foot off the peddle and to zone out and stop paying attention to how fast you're going. This is already Not Great to have in cars, but adding the same to the steering wheel, making drivers feel emboldened to look away, is probably a big part of the reason so many cars on the road today seem like they're being driven by deranged psychopaths; the drivers are actually tuned out doing other shit!
BeetleB 9mo ago
Comma's days are numbered. Newer cars are encrypting the bus, so that HW like comma can't get the data it needs.
- SirMaster 9mo ago
  As a company yeah they probably won't survive in the long term. But since the software is open source forks like SunnyPilot should remain updated for existing owners and such. People will likely even make DIY comma hardware devices too if the company stops selling them. Although even if the devices stop getting updates, that makes them on par with most built in car software and lane assist stuff which never gets updated in the car's life anyway.
MBCook 9mo ago
Sorry but the LAST thing I want is people being able to YOLO code onto their cars to drive on public roads. That was my original main complaint with Tesla and why I distrusted them so much before Elon publicly lost the plot. Even with Autopilot it was clear to me they were far more willing to force the risks of their systems on all other drivers on the road then the legacy auto makers who were much more cautious about testing things extremely thoroughly first. All those early videos of people climbing in the backs of their cars while they were driving down the highway? To me that was proof they couldn’t be trusted with public safety.
Sparyjerry 9mo ago
Basic lanekeeping is still free but changed the name to Traffic-Aware Cruise Control with Autosteer due to lawsuits. This article is just more anti-tesla propaganda from democrats who hate that Elon supported Trump.

Pressing the lane assistant button on a Mercedes steering wheel and getting a “you’ll need to activate your subscription first” message really drove up my blood pressure.

hermanzegerman 9mo ago
You know you can just buy it?
- greenpresident 9mo ago
  It’s built in. There is a dedicated button for it. Hard to justify imho.
- b40d-48b2-979e 9mo ago
  They already bought the car.
  - whynotmaybe 9mo ago
    I'm wondering whether it's a generational vision and that the concept of ownership of software with hardware is slowly becoming obsolete. Every young adult I know uses a subscription for everything I used to buy. Even though they own the device on which they consume it. Spotify for cd's, Netflix-Disney-Amazon for vhs and dvd's, Udemy-Masterclass for books.
    - tzs 9mo ago
      CDs were around $16 in 2000, which is equivalent to around $30 today, which is around 2.3 times what a Spotify premium subscription costs for one person. Equivalently, a Spotify premium subscription in 2000 would be a little under $7. I guarantee that if you asked young adults in 2000 if they would be interested in a subscription that lets them listen to nearly everything available on CD, at any time, as often as they wished, for $7/month they would have been ecstatic. Same for DVDs, which were typically in the $20-25 range for new releases in 2000. They would not have been quite as happy as they would have been with Spotify because of the way video is split among several streaming services, but it would still be seen as a tremendous improvement.
  - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
    Yes, despite knowing that it's not included. It's like hitting yourself and complaining afterwards about it
- GoatInGrey 9mo ago
  In this case, they bought and currently own the sensors and hardware that the ML model is stored on. Moreover, the software runs locally. It's a silly example, but you can think of it as buying a house and the ceiling lights requiring a subscription to turn on. As an aside, I wonder how long this can keep up before it begins affecting laws around theft and property damage if the person operating, storing, insuring, and maintaining the physical objects don't contractually own them. Is Mercedes a victim if the LKAS camera gets damaged or stolen, rather than you?
  - hermanzegerman 9mo ago
    I mean they surely knew this before they bought their car and bought it anyway. So I don't get the complaint Are you sure they bought the ML Models? The Hardware is inside because it's required for the emergency lane keeping, but I wouldn't be surprised if the OEMs would have a deal with the supplier where they are paid more if this feature gets enabled
- Banditoz 9mo ago
  You're missing the point.
wolvoleo 9mo ago
And the EU companies are surprised a lot of people buy Chinese now. Screw the subscriptions. I don't care how much the shareholders want them.
- burnte 9mo ago
  > Screw the subscriptions. I don't care how much the shareholders want them. Agreed. The investor requirements of any company mean nothing to me as the consumer.
moolcool 9mo ago
Woah, which model was this in?
- greenpresident 9mo ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/mercedes_benz/comments/1oq9xum/active_steering_assist_is_now_a_subscription_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mercedes_benz/comments/1oq9xum/acti... This is an example of what I am talking about.

nabakin 9mo ago

And right to repair

rootusrootus 9mo ago

My Comma 4 arrives today, and I think it will be great (using it with my Lightning, not my Model 3), but I think it is just a temporary solution that is effectively a dead man walking. The latest cars are not usable with a Comma and likely will never be, with manufacturers locking down the CANBUS with encryption.

fc417fc802 9mo ago
Literal anticompetitive behavior in the name of safety. The more of them that move to subscription services the better the chance the scheme gets legally challenged I figure.
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  I hope it does. A bit of regulation clarifying that I own my car would be nice, with a requirement than I be given the encryption keys on request.

foolfoolz 9mo ago

it’s a standard feature on all models for many brands today

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

ews 9mo ago

Comma can be installed on a tesla, I've seen a couple of them already driving around the Bay Area

mikkupikku 9mo ago

Very strong case for keeping your hands on the wheel, eyes on the road and drive the car yourself.

wing-_-nuts 9mo ago
I do. My current car only has regular old cruise control, but it would be nice to have ACC and lane centering for longer drives.d
- tzs 9mo ago
  My car from late 2005 to early 2025, a 2006 Honda CR-V, only has regular old control. That's now my backup car and my main car is 2025 Hyundai Kona EV with adaptive cruise control. I too thought it would be nice on long drives, but really it hasn't made that much difference. Like everyone I speed on the freeway, but not as much as everyone else, so it rarely has to actually adapt. :-) The place I've found it makes a huge difference is stop and go or near stop and go traffic. You can't set it to a speed below 20 mph, but if the car it is following goes below that it keeps working all the way down to 0 mph. (You don't have to be going 20 mph to set it. You can set it if you are going above something like 3 or 4 mph, or if you are stopped and there is a stopped car ahead of and it thinks you are on a street. It just sets the speed to 20 mph when you set it under those circumstances). If the car ahead starts moving again within a few seconds it will automatically follow. If longer it will beep once when the car ahead starts moving and show a message about the lead car leaving. Tapping the accelerator or flicking the cruise control speed adjust switch on the steering wheel will resume following. Not all adaptive cruise control systems work all the way down to 0 mph. Some cut off well above that. Some only work down to 0 mph on higher trims. Making sure I get one that does is now on my "must have" requirements for any future car.
- mikkupikku 9mo ago
  I genuinely don't understand what role lane centering serves if you really do keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. It doesn't steer the car if you're steering the car yourself, not when I drove cars that had it. What am I missing? The only point of cruise control is to take your foot off the peddle and to zone out and stop paying attention to how fast you're going. This is already Not Great to have in cars, but adding the same to the steering wheel, making drivers feel emboldened to look away, is probably a big part of the reason so many cars on the road today seem like they're being driven by deranged psychopaths; the drivers are actually tuned out doing other shit!

BeetleB 9mo ago

Comma's days are numbered. Newer cars are encrypting the bus, so that HW like comma can't get the data it needs.

SirMaster 9mo ago
As a company yeah they probably won't survive in the long term. But since the software is open source forks like SunnyPilot should remain updated for existing owners and such. People will likely even make DIY comma hardware devices too if the company stops selling them. Although even if the devices stop getting updates, that makes them on par with most built in car software and lane assist stuff which never gets updated in the car's life anyway.

MBCook 9mo ago

Sorry but the LAST thing I want is people being able to YOLO code onto their cars to drive on public roads. That was my original main complaint with Tesla and why I distrusted them so much before Elon publicly lost the plot. Even with Autopilot it was clear to me they were far more willing to force the risks of their systems on all other drivers on the road then the legacy auto makers who were much more cautious about testing things extremely thoroughly first. All those early videos of people climbing in the backs of their cars while they were driving down the highway? To me that was proof they couldn’t be trusted with public safety.

Sparyjerry 9mo ago

Basic lanekeeping is still free but changed the name to Traffic-Aware Cruise Control with Autosteer due to lawsuits. This article is just more anti-tesla propaganda from democrats who hate that Elon supported Trump.