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'The old order is not coming back,' Carney says in speech at Davos

259 points by martythemaniak 9mo ago

Transcript: https://globalnews.ca/news/11620877/carney-davos-wef-speech-transcript/ https://globalnews.ca/news/11620877/carney-davos-wef-speech-...

jleyank 9mo ago
Yup, the middle powers have to organize and work together to avoid being chum. The economic power is there, and they can shift from purchasing US weaponry (thus paying US workers) into purchasing middle-power weaponry (thus paying middle-power workers). Car/truck plants can be repurposed, and if Ukraine's lesson is valid then smaller, portable weaponry is now the preferred solution. Cheaper, and the middle powers don't have huge investments in tanks and ships.
beloch 9mo ago
The Theucydides quote Carney leads with, of course, recently rolled off the tongue of the white house deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller. The days of might making right are, apparently, back. Just in case anyone thought the genie could be stuffed back into the bottle once Trump is gone, Carney goes on to state that the rules-based world order we've been living under since WWII is somewhat of a sham. The rules have not been applied equally. Some nations, the powerful ones, have been given much more latitude to do what they want. Middle nations have gone along with this to avoid trouble. The reward for avoiding trouble for so long is... big trouble (e.g. invasion threats for an ally of a big power and economic terrorism applied to its allies). So, why pretend the old system works to avoid trouble if the trouble lands on your doorstep anyways? The answer seems obvious. Middle powers of the old rules-based order need to band together and put bigger powers in their place. It's not impossible. Just very, very difficult. France and Germany may be sticking up for Greenland, but where's Hungary (another EU member)? For this to work, you need everyone. Also, looking ahead, how would you prevent such an alliance of smaller powers, were it successful, from behaving like a bigger power? Trump is currently showing off AI photos where he's meeting with world leaders in front of a map where both Greenland and Canada are a part of the U.S.[1]. As a Canadian, I think Carney gave a stirring speech here, but I suppose I'm biased given that he's our PM and his vision is one of the few things between us as being swallowed up by Trump's MAGA empire while the other big powers fall upon the respective apples of their eyes. [1]https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/trump-shares-altered-map-of-us-flag-covering-canada-greenland-and-venezuela/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/trump-shares-altered-m...
- softwaredoug 9mo ago
  The fact we have a system that produced a Trump-like figure, and once in power, haven’t checked him internationally, shows the US will continue to be an unreliable partner. We have kinds of political problems, and it’s not clear they’re going away post Trump.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    Gerrymandering, money in politics, the electoral college, disproportional representation, failing checks and balances. This isn't going to be solved in a decade, probably not even a couple of decades.
    - shimman 9mo ago
      All because the elites got too greedy and decided to destroy the only successful labor movement in America (the New Deal coalition) because they wanted more money.
    - no_wizard 9mo ago
      The funny thing is it’s all cultural. It’s not some intractable thing, the path to fixing all this has been available for a long time. It’s a well studied domain with practical solutions abound. But enough of the US citizenry that I share the nation with seemingly can’t see beyond their own horizons. No matter how bad it is, there is still enough people who can’t possibly see the value of the government doing anything useful. Government is exclusively the enemy. And in turn those who seek to ransack the system do so under the guise of pushing back against so called “government overreach” (a deliberately vague term) and continue to give the general public the raw deal
beardyw 9mo ago
> "Many countries are drawing the same conclusions. They must develop greater strategic autonomy: in energy, food, critical minerals, in finance and supply chains. Sounds like an economic NATO (without the USA). It's good that other counties are waking up at last. Taking the hit now (and blaming it on Trump) will make them stronger on the long run.
- thaumasiotes 9mo ago
  Autonomy is the opposite of an alliance.
  - SpicyLemonZest 9mo ago
    The idea that allied nations don't maintain strategic autonomy with respect to each other is very modern. Remember that Greenland is the second island dispute to divide NATO, after Cyprus in the 70s. The expectation for NATO to become one big happy family only really caught on in the 90s, and without a rules-based international order to prevent said allies from exploiting it the expectation won't last long.
    - thaumasiotes 9mo ago
      > The idea that allied nations don't maintain strategic autonomy with respect to each other is very modern. No it's not. The point of making an alliance is that you're not stuck with strategic autonomy. You can tell other people that if they mess with you, they're also messing with whoever you're allied with. If you were autonomous, that wouldn't be true.
      - SpicyLemonZest 9mo ago
        Again, that's a very modern perspective. When Portugal faced colonial revolts in the 1960s and early 1970s, NATO didn't help at all, and some members including the United States actively hoped Portugal would lose and free their colonies. Nor did they help France in the Algerian War. (The terms of the NATO treaty anticipated these conflicts, formally excluding all territory outside of Europe and North America from collective defense obligations so there'd be no question that help wouldn't come.)
calf 9mo ago
This is all eloquent and game-theoretic, but who is this being said too? Other davos attendees, and it will be the small people who must pay for this shift, through rising prices, worse labor conditions, austerity, etc. His astute observation about competing powers running to the lowest common denominator is intrinsically a property of capitalism.
- kilington 9mo ago
  It's a modern stage, it doesn't really matter who is physically there. The EU aligned countries would be crazy to let the US set these rules for some temporary maintenance of income. They've all tended to social Democrats and socialist governments and have a better lifestyle than the US at half or 1/4 the GDP. That goes away if they let the US set pure power based rules, then 1/2 the GDP really is being half an American and if being a whole American was so great no one would have voted for Trump.
dlcarrier 9mo ago
As someone from the US, I thought we were the leaders in choosing strange government figureheads, until Canada elected the head of a foreign bank as their's. That speech reminds me of the conclusion the main character in the movie Antz settled on. Being forced to be a cog in the machine is awful and no one should accept it. Instead we should be happy to volunteer ourselves to be cogs in the machine.
- jleyank 9mo ago
  FWIW he was bank head of Canada before being bank head of uk.
  - canadiantim 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - SanjayMehta 9mo ago
      Is that an allusion to changing colours?
      - almaight 9mo ago
        So it might have been Chinese before.
      - canadiantim 9mo ago
        It’s an allusion to him previously working as a Goldman sachs banker, Goldman sachs is lovingly referred to as a vampire squid, its tentacles are everywhere.
        SanjayMehta 9mo ago
        Ah so, I thought it was some Canadian slang. Also: "lovingly" cracked me up.
- cjbenedikt 9mo ago
CodingJeebus 9mo ago
> First, it means naming reality. Stop invoking rules-based international order as though it still functions as advertised. Call it what it is: a system of intensifying great power rivalry where the most powerful pursue their interests using economic integration as coercion. Nobody leading a western country would’ve dared be this direct about America a decade ago. The great irony with the current political climate is that America has truly been first for many decades, leading the world order to tremendous financial, military and material success. But nothing lasts forever. We won’t know for many years if this moment represents America’s true descent into a has-been empire, but the message from our closest allies is very clear: world leaders don’t speak that kind of truth to a power like America unless they mean it.
- stackghost 9mo ago
  >world leaders don’t speak that kind of truth to a power like America unless they mean it. I mean the damage has already been done. By electing Trump a second time, Americans have sent the world a clear and unambiguous message that it wasn't a fluke: They clearly don't want our friendship or value the treaties they've signed. This is merely Carney calling a spade, a spade.
  - TacticalCoder 9mo ago
    > ... By electing Trump a second time, Americans have sent the world a clear and unambiguous message That's how you read it. But the Trump election was americans sending other americans a clear an unambiguous message.
    - roxolotl 9mo ago
      The other piece though is they sent an unintentional message to the rest of the world that American political system is hijackable in a way they ought to be concerned about.
      - user32489318 9mo ago
        Not American here. Reading your guys replies it almost feels like you are rejecting the existence of Trump supporters or invalidating their stance. Doesn’t this enforce their argument and created this situation in th first place?
kwar13 9mo ago
I highly recommend listening to the whole speech
- foundart 9mo ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE981Z_TaVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE981Z_TaVo
- no-name-here 9mo ago
  The full video is at the top of this post's secondary (transcript) link, although that version doesn't translate his initial ~minute in French. If you want to skip to his (main) section in English: https://www.youtube.com/live/5UqQTqvhFRg?t=104s https://www.youtube.com/live/5UqQTqvhFRg?t=104s
trhway 9mo ago
the current world split starts to eerily look, while still far from it of course, like the 1939 split in Europe - totalitarian regimes of Stalin and Hitler allied together against Europe's democratic countries. Here we have authoritarian leaning Trump starting to ally himself with totalitarian Putin and China against democratic countries by dividing the world in very similar way as Stalin and Hitler divided Europe between themselves.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
  > current world split starts to eerily look, while still far from it of course, like the 1939 split in Europe I’m seeing the Sino-Soviet split. Europe might have a unique opportunity to ally with China to pry it from Russia. America gets the Western Hemisphere. Eurasia contains itself.
  - aebtebeten 9mo ago
    > Europe might have a unique opportunity to ally with China to pry it from Russia Sounds like it could be promising, but how in that world do you get containers back and forth between Europe and China, given that USEUCOM could mine Gibraltar; USCENTCOM, Suez and Aden; and USINDOPACOM, Malacca? (My personal optimistic view atm is an independent free-trading armed-neutral european block which is sufficiently valuable that any move by one of the three major powers to bring it under their bloc will naturally be countered by the other two) "Optimists practise speaking Cantonese, pessimists— speaking Russian, realists— stripping and reassembling rifles"?
    - trhway 9mo ago
      These days in Russian schools for the “Motherland defense” classes they officially included drones in addition to rifles.
    - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
      Given that Hanoi is gonna leapfrog Shenzhen anytime now, may I predict that the optimist get up to speed on some gallic^W portuguese-orthographed (old-)Yue-based murine cant? https://archive.ph/2025.07.19-083802/https://www.hk01.com/%E8%81%B7%E5%A0%B4/60248906/%E5%81%87%E8%A3%9D%E4%B8%8A%E7%8F%AD%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8-%E9%A2%A8%E9%9D%A1%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%A4%9A%E5%9C%B0-%E7%82%BA%E5%AE%89%E6%92%AB%E7%88%B6%E6%AF%8D-%E6%9B%B4%E7%82%BA%E9%81%AE%E6%8E%A9%E4%B8%80%E7%A8%AE%E7%BE%9E%E6%81%A5%E6%84%9F#:~:text=%E9%80%99%E4%B8%80%E6%A6%82%E5%BF%B5%E6%9C%80%E6%97%A9%E6%BA%90%E8%87%AA%E4%BF%84%E7%BE%85%E6%96%AF%EF%BC%8C%E9%80%9A%E9%81%8E%E7%9F%AD%E7%89%87%E5%82%B3%E5%85%A5%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%BE%8C%EF%BC%8C https://archive.ph/2025.07.19-083802/https://www.hk01.com/%E... Ps: troll me harder with the birefringence bro! Not feeling it! https://youtu.be/O9o0Fwuc57A?t=33m36s https://youtu.be/O9o0Fwuc57A?t=33m36s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yue_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yue_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawndip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawndip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%E1%BB%AF_N%C3%B4m https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%E1%BB%AF_N%C3%B4m
throw0101c 9mo ago
From the transcript: > We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false, that the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient, that trade rules were enforced asymmetrically, and we knew that international law applied with varied rigor, depending on the identity of the accused or the victim. > This fiction was useful, and American hegemony in particular helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support for frameworks for resolving disputes. An interesting observation I came across today: > The genius of American foreign policy since 1941 was that it found a way to be both the single strongest state and the leader of the strongest coalition of states: power and legitimacy, together. That's the achievement Trump has jeopardized - and possibly permanently wrecked. * https://x.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m https://x.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m * https://xcancel.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m https://xcancel.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m
- Pet_Ant 9mo ago
  It's worth mentioning that David Frum is Canadian and a Republican (the author of "Axis of Evil") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
treetalker 9mo ago
Consider for a few minutes the contrast between Carney's speech and what daily babbles out of Trump's gaping maw. Carney's coherence is refreshing.
vdupras 9mo ago
The speech was surprisingly good. I think it's going to prove effective. This "taking the sign off" thing, good imagery. But I can't help notice the inconsistency in this imagery. First, he says it himself a few minutes later. He doesn't "take the sign off" for NATO. We can understand why it's important to keep this facade. But another one that bothers me is "energy, both clean and traditional". Oh, you didn't go for "clean and dirty"? Categories are clearer thus. Oh, not ready to take the sign off on the climate front? Too bad.
- jasoneckert 9mo ago
  I don't think that's inconsistent - all but one member of NATO share the same values currently, and it's important they work together to resolve the current annexation threats from the US. That particular sign can be taken off later, if necessary.
  - Pet_Ant 9mo ago
    > all but one member of NATO share the same values currently Turkey? Hungary? Slovakia?
deleted 9mo ago
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cal_dent 9mo ago
One of those speeches that makes you feel like you're living in history^TM
- Synthetic7346 9mo ago
  Those are the worst times to be alive in. I'd rather have those speeches in the past, and live in uninteresting times.
qart 9mo ago
> For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules-based international order. As an Indian listening to this, this comes across as absurd. Trudeau constantly invoked this phrase when dealing with India about the murder of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. It basically meant Trudeau could level allegations, not provide any evidence, and strut as if he as won. In due course, the murderers turned out to be their own terrorists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Diplomatic_fallout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Diplomati...
- rfrey 9mo ago
  Are you saying a "Canadian Terrorist" murdered Nijjar? The article you link says nothing about any country (except India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka) disputing Canada's claim.
  - qart 9mo ago
    Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement is not a significant movement in India. I have plenty of connections with Sikhs and Sikhism in India. Apart from a very tiny minority of people, who quickly set off to Canada, this movement does not exist in India. They are courted by Canadian parliamentarians, which included Trudeau. This book has more details about the movement: https://www.amazon.in/Blood-Fifty-Global-Khalistan-Project/dp/935422766X https://www.amazon.in/Blood-Fifty-Global-Khalistan-Project/d...
    - rfrey 9mo ago
      If it's such an insignificant movement, it's curious why India saw fit to assassinate a Canadian on Canadian soil. A claim that as near as I can tell only India and its surrogates (such as yourself, it seems) dispute.
      - qart 9mo ago
        > If it's such an insignificant movement It is a significant movement in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 Also, the veracity of a claim does not depend on who is making it or who is disputing it. The accusing investigation agency has do a proper investigation and submit proofs and ask for extradition.
ChrisArchitect 9mo ago
Transcript linked inside the submitted article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-carney-speech-davos-rules-based-order-9.7053350 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-carney-speech-davos-ru...
hhhthrow 9mo ago
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- gizzlon 9mo ago
  ouf, that's a lot of negativity and defeatism in one single comment. I share your concern about growing inequality, but to lie down and give up does not help anyone
  - hhhthrow02 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - ChromaticPanic 9mo ago
      You just put a whole lot of nonsense out there that it would take too much time to rebuke all of it. Tech workers buying property is a surprise? The US paying tech workers alot is a surprise? They literally pay the most on the planet. I'm a tech worker in Canada, guess what, me and my friends are buying property here too. We literally have a 60% home ownership rate in this country. The problem is social media is flooded with Canada doomer propaganda.
      - hhhthrow02 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        bigbadfeline 9mo ago
        > People move to the US and they make twice the money. > This is nothing new. US just pays way better no matter how you look at it. Not for long, Palantir CEO said that AI will displace so many jobs that it will eliminate immigration, plus there will be enough local jobs... if you have vocational training... that's the future! [1] [1] https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2026/01/20/palantir-ceo-says-ai-to-make-large-scale-immigration-obsolete/ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2026/01/20/palantir-ceo-says-ai...
jpster 9mo ago
> "great powers" are using economic integration as "weapons." This is so true and I think economic sanctions should be recognized as the weapons they actually are. Just a taste: No Amazon, No Gmail: Trump Sanctions Upend the Lives of I.C.C. Judges President Trump’s retaliation against top officials at the International Criminal Court has shut them out of American services and made even routine daily tasks a challenge. https://archive.is/KflDP https://archive.is/KflDP Now consider the US has been doing this to entire countries for decades. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran. Forget Amazon, the inability to use the SWIFT banking system has all sorts of nasty consequences that get elided by a clinical sounding term. From the Lancet: Our findings showed a significant causal association between sanctions and increased mortality. We found the strongest effects for unilateral, economic, and US sanctions, whereas we found no statistical evidence of an effect for UN sanctions. Mortality effects ranged from 8·4 log points (95% CI 3·9–13·0) for children younger than 5 years to 2·4 log points (0·9–4·0) for individuals aged 60–80 years. We estimated that unilateral sanctions were associated with an annual toll of 564 258 deaths (95% CI 367 838–760 677), similar to the global mortality burden associated with armed conflict. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(25)00189-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1...
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
  > economic sanctions should be recognized as the weapons they actually are You don’t need a study to conclude the mortality of actual weapons. Sanctions are bad. But war is horrible.
  - jpster 9mo ago
    Did you skip right over the Lancet sentence that concluded the annual toll caused by unilateral sanctions (over 564k) is comparable to armed conflict?
    - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
      > the annual toll caused by unilateral sanctions (over 564k) is comparable to armed conflict? In aggregate. America isn’t in armed conflict with those folks. If everyone we sanctioned were attacked, more people would die.
AtlasBarfed 9mo ago
Peter Zeihan has been predicting this for a decade which means there has been a lot of academics also predicting since he generally repackages academic work. Really it isn't just a different order. Imo it is a reversion to imperialism with us eyeing Latin America, Russia Ukraine, China Taiwan.
- phs318u 9mo ago
  I have said for many years that in the distant future, historians (those privileged by their patrons to claim the freedom of unfettered research), will read about the brief spasm in history, climaxing in the latter half of the 20th century, in which for half the globe, autocracy, dictatorship and absolute monarchy gave way to a system in which the proletariat believed they had (and amazingly in many circumstances actually had) the freedom to be, to think, to live, to flourish - largely as they wished! Those historians will wonder how this chaotic anarchy managed to not only survive, but momentarily flourish before the immense pressure of history brought about the reversal to the mean: the autocrats ruling, precious few flourishing at their feet, and the rest subsisting sullenly.
  - defrost 9mo ago
    That's just history though, a paucity of human existence committed to script, nothing at all of, say, 70K years of libertarian utopia in post-Sahul, just the tantalising remnants of pre digital Instagram real silicon party posts. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwion_Gwion_rock_paintings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwion_Gwion_rock_paintings
  - AtlasBarfed 9mo ago
    Ai will give the surveillance state total control. The only thing that may stop it is imperial darwinism, when "freedom" societies can outcompet raw authoritarianism. We somewhat have it in US vs China, but the USA may go authoritarian at any moment under this regime and its Nazi posturing
Herring 9mo ago
I genuinely love the speech but scanning the WHR, Canada has been dropping in happiness almost as fast as America. https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart They would have gone right-wing in Carney's election if not for Trump meddling. He needs to get those cost of living issues fixed ASAP, probably starting with housing.
- hhhthrow02 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Herring 9mo ago
    Dude trump is NOT a temporary blip. His approval rating right now is slightly higher than it was at this point in his first term. Last time it took a great depression to convince Americans to actually care about each other (socialism-lite), and I expect nothing less this time around.
  - gizzlon 9mo ago
    Really? If I had to move to either, I would choose Canada 10 out of 10 times Aren't all problems in Canada 5x worse in the US?
    - hhhthrow02 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - gizzlon 9mo ago
        > No, it’s bullshit posturing you read on the internet. yeah, I don't believe you, random, anonymous, throwaway account on the Internet
      - jeromegv 9mo ago
        Go talk to actual Canadians. Lol. Only people that agree with you are Canadians now? Everything I hear around me is people coming back from the US, they don’t feel safe with their family. Oh, just saw you created your account an hour ago. Never mind then, just making shit up to troll.
polotics 9mo ago
All well meaning and good and all that, thank you Canadians. . . but... Invoking Thucydides's "and the weak suffer what they must" at a time when weak-on-strong warfare has fundamentally changed, in a fluid still-small world where for example: -Some russian goons can poison someone on a bench in England. -Some north korean hireling lady can poison someone in any airport. -Some radicalized youths will go on rampages using easily-accessible assault weapons. -So many systems that "strong" societies depend on are so so fragile and running close to many edges. -Lethal FPVs are cheap cheap. ...is I think falling into the trap of adopting the mindset of the loudest man in the room (initials DJT) who's thinking in early 20th century terms, instead of looking at the world and conflict the way they really are.
hulitu 9mo ago
> Carney said Canada must be "principled and pragmatic" and turn inward to build up the country and diversify trading relationships to become less reliant on countries like the U.S., now that it's clear "integration" can lead to "subordination." They surely needed some decades to underestand this. Much quicker than the Europeans, though.
enaaem 9mo ago
Trump fundamentally misunderstands how power really works. Power doesn’t mean others kiss your boot and give you peace prizes. People hate being ruled over. They absolutely hate it. So you have to hide your power through, ideology, laws and institutions. Galeev explains it well [1]. This is how American imperialism works. The American led western liberal order was an unprecedented alliance and America was the house. The house doesn’t win all the time, but everything is rigged in its favour. The issue is that there is no 4d chess at play here. Trump has a narcissistic personality disorder combined with dementia and has surrounded himself by yes-men. [1] https://kamilkazani.substack.com/p/might-makes-right https://kamilkazani.substack.com/p/might-makes-right
- Aerbil313 9mo ago
  I agree that there is no 4d chess here but I disagree that Trump actually does or decides anything. At this point I'm suspicious of any viewpoint that posits Trump as a president/person with an agenda. I'm pretty baffled by the serious policy "experts" analyzing his actions and trying to determine cause and effect. It's pretty clear to me he's a demented old man reading off the teleprompter. I'm sure he finds all these duties of presidency pretty hard and tiring on his body and mind. I feel that all he really thinks about is golfing, his estate business, increasing his wealth through other means like crypto scams and the like, and always getting more attention which he desperately craves. The White House administration, intelligence services and the Pentagon collectively decide what to do, be that invading Greenland, Venezuela or the like. Trump has occasional stupid demands as well, like the FIFA Peace Prize which I'm sure the admin staff find very hilarious but comply regardless to make his little boy wishes happen to preserve the status quo. Even more spicy takes: The only reason the societal divide exists in the US today is Meta. Facebook and Instagram. When people are exposed to entirely separate spheres of content for hours a day every day their opinion changes slowly but surely and there's pretty much no escaping it. I don't use any social media besides HN (which no doubt also does this covert influencing). I can spot a person's social media app of choice is in 5 minutes. They literally change a person's character and the way they speak.
  - clusterhacks 9mo ago
ParonoidAndroid 9mo ago
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cwst66 9mo ago
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cwst66 9mo ago
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daft_pink 9mo ago
It’s very ironic that his support is falling apart at home while his worldwide support is exploding.
- Degorath 9mo ago
  I understand what you mean, but at this point I don't find it ironic at all. It's been quite similar in my corner of the world, where a leader enjoys great support and visibility externally, but is fairly unpopular internally.
  - akkad33 9mo ago
    Are you talking about Macron?
    - Degorath 9mo ago
      No, but it is a European leader that has ~recently enjoyed that situation, but is no longer in it. Sorry, but I don't want to spell it out too obviously, for my own privacy.
- johanyc 9mo ago
  Why is he losing support in Canada
- Rendello 9mo ago
  Carney's support is strong in Canada: Mar - Wins Liberal leadership and thus prime ministership. Calls election. Apr - Liberals easily win election, Carney keeps prime ministership. Nov - PM's budget passes. A Conservative crosses floor to Liberals. Dec - Second Conservative crosses floor to Liberals. The budget being being rejected would've meant another election; the opposition would've rejected it if they were confident they'd win. The two defections means that the liberals are now one member away from a majority. In fact, there was rumoured to be a third defector from the opposition, but he decided to quit politics entirely, presumably after being whipped by the whip.
josefritzishere 9mo ago
It's absolutely wild that one mentalliy ill octogenarian can cause so much chaos. You are living through history, assuming you survive.
zombot 9mo ago
Good to see someone stand up to the bullying and tell it how it is in an international forum.

259 points by martythemaniak 9mo ago

Transcript: https://globalnews.ca/news/11620877/carney-davos-wef-speech-transcript/ https://globalnews.ca/news/11620877/carney-davos-wef-speech-...

jleyank 9mo ago

Yup, the middle powers have to organize and work together to avoid being chum. The economic power is there, and they can shift from purchasing US weaponry (thus paying US workers) into purchasing middle-power weaponry (thus paying middle-power workers). Car/truck plants can be repurposed, and if Ukraine's lesson is valid then smaller, portable weaponry is now the preferred solution. Cheaper, and the middle powers don't have huge investments in tanks and ships.

beloch 9mo ago

The Theucydides quote Carney leads with, of course, recently rolled off the tongue of the white house deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller. The days of might making right are, apparently, back. Just in case anyone thought the genie could be stuffed back into the bottle once Trump is gone, Carney goes on to state that the rules-based world order we've been living under since WWII is somewhat of a sham. The rules have not been applied equally. Some nations, the powerful ones, have been given much more latitude to do what they want. Middle nations have gone along with this to avoid trouble. The reward for avoiding trouble for so long is... big trouble (e.g. invasion threats for an ally of a big power and economic terrorism applied to its allies). So, why pretend the old system works to avoid trouble if the trouble lands on your doorstep anyways? The answer seems obvious. Middle powers of the old rules-based order need to band together and put bigger powers in their place. It's not impossible. Just very, very difficult. France and Germany may be sticking up for Greenland, but where's Hungary (another EU member)? For this to work, you need everyone. Also, looking ahead, how would you prevent such an alliance of smaller powers, were it successful, from behaving like a bigger power? Trump is currently showing off AI photos where he's meeting with world leaders in front of a map where both Greenland and Canada are a part of the U.S.[1]. As a Canadian, I think Carney gave a stirring speech here, but I suppose I'm biased given that he's our PM and his vision is one of the few things between us as being swallowed up by Trump's MAGA empire while the other big powers fall upon the respective apples of their eyes. [1]https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/trump-shares-altered-map-of-us-flag-covering-canada-greenland-and-venezuela/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/trump-shares-altered-m...

softwaredoug 9mo ago
The fact we have a system that produced a Trump-like figure, and once in power, haven’t checked him internationally, shows the US will continue to be an unreliable partner. We have kinds of political problems, and it’s not clear they’re going away post Trump.
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  Gerrymandering, money in politics, the electoral college, disproportional representation, failing checks and balances. This isn't going to be solved in a decade, probably not even a couple of decades.
  - shimman 9mo ago
    All because the elites got too greedy and decided to destroy the only successful labor movement in America (the New Deal coalition) because they wanted more money.
  - no_wizard 9mo ago
    The funny thing is it’s all cultural. It’s not some intractable thing, the path to fixing all this has been available for a long time. It’s a well studied domain with practical solutions abound. But enough of the US citizenry that I share the nation with seemingly can’t see beyond their own horizons. No matter how bad it is, there is still enough people who can’t possibly see the value of the government doing anything useful. Government is exclusively the enemy. And in turn those who seek to ransack the system do so under the guise of pushing back against so called “government overreach” (a deliberately vague term) and continue to give the general public the raw deal

beardyw 9mo ago

> "Many countries are drawing the same conclusions. They must develop greater strategic autonomy: in energy, food, critical minerals, in finance and supply chains. Sounds like an economic NATO (without the USA). It's good that other counties are waking up at last. Taking the hit now (and blaming it on Trump) will make them stronger on the long run.

thaumasiotes 9mo ago
Autonomy is the opposite of an alliance.
- SpicyLemonZest 9mo ago
  The idea that allied nations don't maintain strategic autonomy with respect to each other is very modern. Remember that Greenland is the second island dispute to divide NATO, after Cyprus in the 70s. The expectation for NATO to become one big happy family only really caught on in the 90s, and without a rules-based international order to prevent said allies from exploiting it the expectation won't last long.
  - thaumasiotes 9mo ago
    > The idea that allied nations don't maintain strategic autonomy with respect to each other is very modern. No it's not. The point of making an alliance is that you're not stuck with strategic autonomy. You can tell other people that if they mess with you, they're also messing with whoever you're allied with. If you were autonomous, that wouldn't be true.
    - SpicyLemonZest 9mo ago
      Again, that's a very modern perspective. When Portugal faced colonial revolts in the 1960s and early 1970s, NATO didn't help at all, and some members including the United States actively hoped Portugal would lose and free their colonies. Nor did they help France in the Algerian War. (The terms of the NATO treaty anticipated these conflicts, formally excluding all territory outside of Europe and North America from collective defense obligations so there'd be no question that help wouldn't come.)

calf 9mo ago

This is all eloquent and game-theoretic, but who is this being said too? Other davos attendees, and it will be the small people who must pay for this shift, through rising prices, worse labor conditions, austerity, etc. His astute observation about competing powers running to the lowest common denominator is intrinsically a property of capitalism.

kilington 9mo ago
It's a modern stage, it doesn't really matter who is physically there. The EU aligned countries would be crazy to let the US set these rules for some temporary maintenance of income. They've all tended to social Democrats and socialist governments and have a better lifestyle than the US at half or 1/4 the GDP. That goes away if they let the US set pure power based rules, then 1/2 the GDP really is being half an American and if being a whole American was so great no one would have voted for Trump.

dlcarrier 9mo ago

As someone from the US, I thought we were the leaders in choosing strange government figureheads, until Canada elected the head of a foreign bank as their's. That speech reminds me of the conclusion the main character in the movie Antz settled on. Being forced to be a cog in the machine is awful and no one should accept it. Instead we should be happy to volunteer ourselves to be cogs in the machine.

jleyank 9mo ago
FWIW he was bank head of Canada before being bank head of uk.
- canadiantim 9mo ago
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  - SanjayMehta 9mo ago
    Is that an allusion to changing colours?
    - almaight 9mo ago
      So it might have been Chinese before.
    - canadiantim 9mo ago
      It’s an allusion to him previously working as a Goldman sachs banker, Goldman sachs is lovingly referred to as a vampire squid, its tentacles are everywhere.
      - SanjayMehta 9mo ago
        Ah so, I thought it was some Canadian slang. Also: "lovingly" cracked me up.
cjbenedikt 9mo ago

CodingJeebus 9mo ago

> First, it means naming reality. Stop invoking rules-based international order as though it still functions as advertised. Call it what it is: a system of intensifying great power rivalry where the most powerful pursue their interests using economic integration as coercion. Nobody leading a western country would’ve dared be this direct about America a decade ago. The great irony with the current political climate is that America has truly been first for many decades, leading the world order to tremendous financial, military and material success. But nothing lasts forever. We won’t know for many years if this moment represents America’s true descent into a has-been empire, but the message from our closest allies is very clear: world leaders don’t speak that kind of truth to a power like America unless they mean it.

stackghost 9mo ago
>world leaders don’t speak that kind of truth to a power like America unless they mean it. I mean the damage has already been done. By electing Trump a second time, Americans have sent the world a clear and unambiguous message that it wasn't a fluke: They clearly don't want our friendship or value the treaties they've signed. This is merely Carney calling a spade, a spade.
- TacticalCoder 9mo ago
  > ... By electing Trump a second time, Americans have sent the world a clear and unambiguous message That's how you read it. But the Trump election was americans sending other americans a clear an unambiguous message.
  - roxolotl 9mo ago
    The other piece though is they sent an unintentional message to the rest of the world that American political system is hijackable in a way they ought to be concerned about.
    - user32489318 9mo ago
      Not American here. Reading your guys replies it almost feels like you are rejecting the existence of Trump supporters or invalidating their stance. Doesn’t this enforce their argument and created this situation in th first place?

kwar13 9mo ago

I highly recommend listening to the whole speech

foundart 9mo ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE981Z_TaVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE981Z_TaVo
no-name-here 9mo ago
The full video is at the top of this post's secondary (transcript) link, although that version doesn't translate his initial ~minute in French. If you want to skip to his (main) section in English: https://www.youtube.com/live/5UqQTqvhFRg?t=104s https://www.youtube.com/live/5UqQTqvhFRg?t=104s

trhway 9mo ago

the current world split starts to eerily look, while still far from it of course, like the 1939 split in Europe - totalitarian regimes of Stalin and Hitler allied together against Europe's democratic countries. Here we have authoritarian leaning Trump starting to ally himself with totalitarian Putin and China against democratic countries by dividing the world in very similar way as Stalin and Hitler divided Europe between themselves.

JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
> current world split starts to eerily look, while still far from it of course, like the 1939 split in Europe I’m seeing the Sino-Soviet split. Europe might have a unique opportunity to ally with China to pry it from Russia. America gets the Western Hemisphere. Eurasia contains itself.
- aebtebeten 9mo ago
  > Europe might have a unique opportunity to ally with China to pry it from Russia Sounds like it could be promising, but how in that world do you get containers back and forth between Europe and China, given that USEUCOM could mine Gibraltar; USCENTCOM, Suez and Aden; and USINDOPACOM, Malacca? (My personal optimistic view atm is an independent free-trading armed-neutral european block which is sufficiently valuable that any move by one of the three major powers to bring it under their bloc will naturally be countered by the other two) "Optimists practise speaking Cantonese, pessimists— speaking Russian, realists— stripping and reassembling rifles"?
  - trhway 9mo ago
    These days in Russian schools for the “Motherland defense” classes they officially included drones in addition to rifles.
  - gsf_emergency_6 9mo ago
    Given that Hanoi is gonna leapfrog Shenzhen anytime now, may I predict that the optimist get up to speed on some gallic^W portuguese-orthographed (old-)Yue-based murine cant? https://archive.ph/2025.07.19-083802/https://www.hk01.com/%E8%81%B7%E5%A0%B4/60248906/%E5%81%87%E8%A3%9D%E4%B8%8A%E7%8F%AD%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8-%E9%A2%A8%E9%9D%A1%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%A4%9A%E5%9C%B0-%E7%82%BA%E5%AE%89%E6%92%AB%E7%88%B6%E6%AF%8D-%E6%9B%B4%E7%82%BA%E9%81%AE%E6%8E%A9%E4%B8%80%E7%A8%AE%E7%BE%9E%E6%81%A5%E6%84%9F#:~:text=%E9%80%99%E4%B8%80%E6%A6%82%E5%BF%B5%E6%9C%80%E6%97%A9%E6%BA%90%E8%87%AA%E4%BF%84%E7%BE%85%E6%96%AF%EF%BC%8C%E9%80%9A%E9%81%8E%E7%9F%AD%E7%89%87%E5%82%B3%E5%85%A5%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%BE%8C%EF%BC%8C https://archive.ph/2025.07.19-083802/https://www.hk01.com/%E... Ps: troll me harder with the birefringence bro! Not feeling it! https://youtu.be/O9o0Fwuc57A?t=33m36s https://youtu.be/O9o0Fwuc57A?t=33m36s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yue_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yue_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawndip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawndip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%E1%BB%AF_N%C3%B4m https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%E1%BB%AF_N%C3%B4m

throw0101c 9mo ago

From the transcript: > We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false, that the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient, that trade rules were enforced asymmetrically, and we knew that international law applied with varied rigor, depending on the identity of the accused or the victim. > This fiction was useful, and American hegemony in particular helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support for frameworks for resolving disputes. An interesting observation I came across today: > The genius of American foreign policy since 1941 was that it found a way to be both the single strongest state and the leader of the strongest coalition of states: power and legitimacy, together. That's the achievement Trump has jeopardized - and possibly permanently wrecked. * https://x.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m https://x.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m * https://xcancel.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m https://xcancel.com/davidfrum/status/2013735844721349115#m

Pet_Ant 9mo ago
It's worth mentioning that David Frum is Canadian and a Republican (the author of "Axis of Evil") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum
- deleted 9mo ago
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treetalker 9mo ago

Consider for a few minutes the contrast between Carney's speech and what daily babbles out of Trump's gaping maw. Carney's coherence is refreshing.

vdupras 9mo ago

The speech was surprisingly good. I think it's going to prove effective. This "taking the sign off" thing, good imagery. But I can't help notice the inconsistency in this imagery. First, he says it himself a few minutes later. He doesn't "take the sign off" for NATO. We can understand why it's important to keep this facade. But another one that bothers me is "energy, both clean and traditional". Oh, you didn't go for "clean and dirty"? Categories are clearer thus. Oh, not ready to take the sign off on the climate front? Too bad.

jasoneckert 9mo ago
I don't think that's inconsistent - all but one member of NATO share the same values currently, and it's important they work together to resolve the current annexation threats from the US. That particular sign can be taken off later, if necessary.
- Pet_Ant 9mo ago
  > all but one member of NATO share the same values currently Turkey? Hungary? Slovakia?

deleted 9mo ago

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cal_dent 9mo ago

One of those speeches that makes you feel like you're living in history^TM

Synthetic7346 9mo ago
Those are the worst times to be alive in. I'd rather have those speeches in the past, and live in uninteresting times.

qart 9mo ago

> For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules-based international order. As an Indian listening to this, this comes across as absurd. Trudeau constantly invoked this phrase when dealing with India about the murder of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. It basically meant Trudeau could level allegations, not provide any evidence, and strut as if he as won. In due course, the murderers turned out to be their own terrorists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Diplomatic_fallout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardeep_Singh_Nijjar#Diplomati...

rfrey 9mo ago
Are you saying a "Canadian Terrorist" murdered Nijjar? The article you link says nothing about any country (except India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka) disputing Canada's claim.
- qart 9mo ago
  Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement is not a significant movement in India. I have plenty of connections with Sikhs and Sikhism in India. Apart from a very tiny minority of people, who quickly set off to Canada, this movement does not exist in India. They are courted by Canadian parliamentarians, which included Trudeau. This book has more details about the movement: https://www.amazon.in/Blood-Fifty-Global-Khalistan-Project/dp/935422766X https://www.amazon.in/Blood-Fifty-Global-Khalistan-Project/d...
  - rfrey 9mo ago
    If it's such an insignificant movement, it's curious why India saw fit to assassinate a Canadian on Canadian soil. A claim that as near as I can tell only India and its surrogates (such as yourself, it seems) dispute.
    - qart 9mo ago
      > If it's such an insignificant movement It is a significant movement in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 Also, the veracity of a claim does not depend on who is making it or who is disputing it. The accusing investigation agency has do a proper investigation and submit proofs and ask for extradition.

ChrisArchitect 9mo ago

Transcript linked inside the submitted article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-carney-speech-davos-rules-based-order-9.7053350 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-carney-speech-davos-ru...

hhhthrow 9mo ago

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gizzlon 9mo ago
ouf, that's a lot of negativity and defeatism in one single comment. I share your concern about growing inequality, but to lie down and give up does not help anyone
- hhhthrow02 9mo ago
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  - ChromaticPanic 9mo ago
    You just put a whole lot of nonsense out there that it would take too much time to rebuke all of it. Tech workers buying property is a surprise? The US paying tech workers alot is a surprise? They literally pay the most on the planet. I'm a tech worker in Canada, guess what, me and my friends are buying property here too. We literally have a 60% home ownership rate in this country. The problem is social media is flooded with Canada doomer propaganda.
    - hhhthrow02 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - bigbadfeline 9mo ago
        > People move to the US and they make twice the money. > This is nothing new. US just pays way better no matter how you look at it. Not for long, Palantir CEO said that AI will displace so many jobs that it will eliminate immigration, plus there will be enough local jobs... if you have vocational training... that's the future! [1] [1] https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2026/01/20/palantir-ceo-says-ai-to-make-large-scale-immigration-obsolete/ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2026/01/20/palantir-ceo-says-ai...

jpster 9mo ago

> "great powers" are using economic integration as "weapons." This is so true and I think economic sanctions should be recognized as the weapons they actually are. Just a taste: No Amazon, No Gmail: Trump Sanctions Upend the Lives of I.C.C. Judges President Trump’s retaliation against top officials at the International Criminal Court has shut them out of American services and made even routine daily tasks a challenge. https://archive.is/KflDP https://archive.is/KflDP Now consider the US has been doing this to entire countries for decades. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran. Forget Amazon, the inability to use the SWIFT banking system has all sorts of nasty consequences that get elided by a clinical sounding term. From the Lancet: Our findings showed a significant causal association between sanctions and increased mortality. We found the strongest effects for unilateral, economic, and US sanctions, whereas we found no statistical evidence of an effect for UN sanctions. Mortality effects ranged from 8·4 log points (95% CI 3·9–13·0) for children younger than 5 years to 2·4 log points (0·9–4·0) for individuals aged 60–80 years. We estimated that unilateral sanctions were associated with an annual toll of 564 258 deaths (95% CI 367 838–760 677), similar to the global mortality burden associated with armed conflict. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(25)00189-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1...

JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
> economic sanctions should be recognized as the weapons they actually are You don’t need a study to conclude the mortality of actual weapons. Sanctions are bad. But war is horrible.
- jpster 9mo ago
  Did you skip right over the Lancet sentence that concluded the annual toll caused by unilateral sanctions (over 564k) is comparable to armed conflict?
  - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
    > the annual toll caused by unilateral sanctions (over 564k) is comparable to armed conflict? In aggregate. America isn’t in armed conflict with those folks. If everyone we sanctioned were attacked, more people would die.

AtlasBarfed 9mo ago

Peter Zeihan has been predicting this for a decade which means there has been a lot of academics also predicting since he generally repackages academic work. Really it isn't just a different order. Imo it is a reversion to imperialism with us eyeing Latin America, Russia Ukraine, China Taiwan.

phs318u 9mo ago
I have said for many years that in the distant future, historians (those privileged by their patrons to claim the freedom of unfettered research), will read about the brief spasm in history, climaxing in the latter half of the 20th century, in which for half the globe, autocracy, dictatorship and absolute monarchy gave way to a system in which the proletariat believed they had (and amazingly in many circumstances actually had) the freedom to be, to think, to live, to flourish - largely as they wished! Those historians will wonder how this chaotic anarchy managed to not only survive, but momentarily flourish before the immense pressure of history brought about the reversal to the mean: the autocrats ruling, precious few flourishing at their feet, and the rest subsisting sullenly.
- defrost 9mo ago
  That's just history though, a paucity of human existence committed to script, nothing at all of, say, 70K years of libertarian utopia in post-Sahul, just the tantalising remnants of pre digital Instagram real silicon party posts. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwion_Gwion_rock_paintings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwion_Gwion_rock_paintings
- AtlasBarfed 9mo ago
  Ai will give the surveillance state total control. The only thing that may stop it is imperial darwinism, when "freedom" societies can outcompet raw authoritarianism. We somewhat have it in US vs China, but the USA may go authoritarian at any moment under this regime and its Nazi posturing

Herring 9mo ago

I genuinely love the speech but scanning the WHR, Canada has been dropping in happiness almost as fast as America. https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart They would have gone right-wing in Carney's election if not for Trump meddling. He needs to get those cost of living issues fixed ASAP, probably starting with housing.

hhhthrow02 9mo ago
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- Herring 9mo ago
  Dude trump is NOT a temporary blip. His approval rating right now is slightly higher than it was at this point in his first term. Last time it took a great depression to convince Americans to actually care about each other (socialism-lite), and I expect nothing less this time around.
- gizzlon 9mo ago
  Really? If I had to move to either, I would choose Canada 10 out of 10 times Aren't all problems in Canada 5x worse in the US?
  - hhhthrow02 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - gizzlon 9mo ago
      > No, it’s bullshit posturing you read on the internet. yeah, I don't believe you, random, anonymous, throwaway account on the Internet
    - jeromegv 9mo ago
      Go talk to actual Canadians. Lol. Only people that agree with you are Canadians now? Everything I hear around me is people coming back from the US, they don’t feel safe with their family. Oh, just saw you created your account an hour ago. Never mind then, just making shit up to troll.

polotics 9mo ago

All well meaning and good and all that, thank you Canadians. . . but... Invoking Thucydides's "and the weak suffer what they must" at a time when weak-on-strong warfare has fundamentally changed, in a fluid still-small world where for example: -Some russian goons can poison someone on a bench in England. -Some north korean hireling lady can poison someone in any airport. -Some radicalized youths will go on rampages using easily-accessible assault weapons. -So many systems that "strong" societies depend on are so so fragile and running close to many edges. -Lethal FPVs are cheap cheap. ...is I think falling into the trap of adopting the mindset of the loudest man in the room (initials DJT) who's thinking in early 20th century terms, instead of looking at the world and conflict the way they really are.

hulitu 9mo ago

> Carney said Canada must be "principled and pragmatic" and turn inward to build up the country and diversify trading relationships to become less reliant on countries like the U.S., now that it's clear "integration" can lead to "subordination." They surely needed some decades to underestand this. Much quicker than the Europeans, though.

enaaem 9mo ago

Trump fundamentally misunderstands how power really works. Power doesn’t mean others kiss your boot and give you peace prizes. People hate being ruled over. They absolutely hate it. So you have to hide your power through, ideology, laws and institutions. Galeev explains it well [1]. This is how American imperialism works. The American led western liberal order was an unprecedented alliance and America was the house. The house doesn’t win all the time, but everything is rigged in its favour. The issue is that there is no 4d chess at play here. Trump has a narcissistic personality disorder combined with dementia and has surrounded himself by yes-men. [1] https://kamilkazani.substack.com/p/might-makes-right https://kamilkazani.substack.com/p/might-makes-right

Aerbil313 9mo ago
I agree that there is no 4d chess here but I disagree that Trump actually does or decides anything. At this point I'm suspicious of any viewpoint that posits Trump as a president/person with an agenda. I'm pretty baffled by the serious policy "experts" analyzing his actions and trying to determine cause and effect. It's pretty clear to me he's a demented old man reading off the teleprompter. I'm sure he finds all these duties of presidency pretty hard and tiring on his body and mind. I feel that all he really thinks about is golfing, his estate business, increasing his wealth through other means like crypto scams and the like, and always getting more attention which he desperately craves. The White House administration, intelligence services and the Pentagon collectively decide what to do, be that invading Greenland, Venezuela or the like. Trump has occasional stupid demands as well, like the FIFA Peace Prize which I'm sure the admin staff find very hilarious but comply regardless to make his little boy wishes happen to preserve the status quo. Even more spicy takes: The only reason the societal divide exists in the US today is Meta. Facebook and Instagram. When people are exposed to entirely separate spheres of content for hours a day every day their opinion changes slowly but surely and there's pretty much no escaping it. I don't use any social media besides HN (which no doubt also does this covert influencing). I can spot a person's social media app of choice is in 5 minutes. They literally change a person's character and the way they speak.
- clusterhacks 9mo ago

ParonoidAndroid 9mo ago

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cwst66 9mo ago

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daft_pink 9mo ago

It’s very ironic that his support is falling apart at home while his worldwide support is exploding.

Degorath 9mo ago
I understand what you mean, but at this point I don't find it ironic at all. It's been quite similar in my corner of the world, where a leader enjoys great support and visibility externally, but is fairly unpopular internally.
- akkad33 9mo ago
  Are you talking about Macron?
  - Degorath 9mo ago
    No, but it is a European leader that has ~recently enjoyed that situation, but is no longer in it. Sorry, but I don't want to spell it out too obviously, for my own privacy.
johanyc 9mo ago
Why is he losing support in Canada
Rendello 9mo ago
Carney's support is strong in Canada: Mar - Wins Liberal leadership and thus prime ministership. Calls election. Apr - Liberals easily win election, Carney keeps prime ministership. Nov - PM's budget passes. A Conservative crosses floor to Liberals. Dec - Second Conservative crosses floor to Liberals. The budget being being rejected would've meant another election; the opposition would've rejected it if they were confident they'd win. The two defections means that the liberals are now one member away from a majority. In fact, there was rumoured to be a third defector from the opposition, but he decided to quit politics entirely, presumably after being whipped by the whip.

josefritzishere 9mo ago

It's absolutely wild that one mentalliy ill octogenarian can cause so much chaos. You are living through history, assuming you survive.

zombot 9mo ago

Good to see someone stand up to the bullying and tell it how it is in an international forum.