10 ms·

Denmark's struggle to break up with Silicon Valley

110 points by giuliomagnifico 10mo ago

SilverElfin 10mo ago
I don’t think it will be a struggle for long. When you have a face to face meeting with your most powerful enemy and they tell you that they WILL conquer you (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/14/greenland-and-denmark-say-trump-set-on-conquering-territory-after-meeting https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/14/greenland-and-denma...), how can you stay coupled? This is going to accelerate the experiments started in Germany to move to open source software, etc. And I think Europe will pursue a heavy pivot to both grow local startups and couple to other powers like India or China. At least for the next 50 years or so, the memory of this Trump administration will undermine any coupling to America. In the interim, I am not sure why these countries are even wasting time talking to American companies or representatives - they are absolutely not going to be a trustworthy long term partner: > Rønde described the “Kafkaesque” experience of negotiating with local representatives who appear to have no actual authority.
- dc396 10mo ago
  I suspect there is going to be a flood of money in the EU for the creation of replacements for any US-based technology any of the EU countries are dependent upon (e.g., https://www.joindns4.eu https://www.joindns4.eu). The real questions are whether there will be regulatory reform in the EU to facilitate this and will the money NOT flow to the usual dinosaurs. My impression is that Trump has sufficient pissed off EU governments such that there is some (small) hope for both. EC bureaucrats and MEPs might do well to read https://berthub.eu https://berthub.eu.
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    NATO allies like Germany are sending troops to protect their ally nation along with Denmark. This isn’t a fight Trump is prepared for. If he somehow decides to move forward - we are all going to have to face a hard choice.
    - ta20240528 10mo ago
      As a spectator from neither continent, I feel Trump is being a bit of a wuss. He should give into his vices, embrace his inner-Putin and demand a “land-bridge” from Washington State to Alaska. For national security reasons, of course.
    - terminalshort 10mo ago
      As much as I think US annexation of Greenland would be the single worst foreign policy move of my lifetime, and maybe in US history, the US military is not the one who isn't prepared for that fight.
      - reactordev 10mo ago
        I never said the military isn’t up for it. I said Trump and his administration aren’t. I know our military is full of ego and testosterone and they’ll fight anyone.
  - mhitza 10mo ago
    My tax money is on the fact that it's going to go again to the dinosaurs. I cannot see them do any quick and adaptive change in the short term. I can see ways that could be really effective, though trying to get a sane word out to these bureaucrats nowadays seems impossible.
  - bflesch 10mo ago
    US tech workers believe their own lies and think they have some sort of magic sauce. For decades they've enjoyed government welfare and US-friendly regulation in many countries, which kept non-US competition small. An influx of non-US talent to US tech companies helped them stay innovative. It is a courtesy that citizens from free countries pay US tech companies a middleman fee over various ways. What US tech workers fail to realize is that - nobody needs Facebook to chat with their family - nobody needs Visa, Paypal or Mastercard to pay in a local shop - nobody needs Netflix subscription to watch a movie created by a non-US entity - nobody needs to pay 50€ per month for privilege of Microsoft spying on your PC - nobody needs their emails/pictures held hostage by Apple or Google - nobody needs Uber in order to order a Taxi So many of these things were done due to convenience and convention, making US tech workers richer and richer. I feel people are realizing what kind of pricks not only the management of US tech companies but also the US tech workers themselves are. Especially on HN these affluent workers from US tech companies run around and parrot the most stupid talking points while thinking their wealth comes from some sort of special skill. We made them rich. They looted our data and poisoned our societies with fake news. They show no respect towards our systems or culture.
    - c-linkage 10mo ago
      The problem is that convenience trumps everything. - It is convenient to use Facebook to chat with family - It is convenient to use credit cards to pay the local shop - It is convenient to use Netflix to watch movies - It is convenient to pay a (lower) monthly fee than a (higher) purchase price for MS products - It is convenient to have Apple / Google take care of email - It is convenient to use Uber instead of a taxi The golden cage of convenience is why nothing will change in the US -- we prize convenience above all else.
      - bflesch 10mo ago
        Sorry to be blunt, but it is extremely inconvenient to be force-exposed to internal politics of some religious shithole country which twice votes against their own interests. Where people don't believe in healthcare but accept school shootings. Where society cares about body positivity until Ozempic arrives. A country which talks bigly about geopolitics and ignores agreements they have signed. It is inconvenient to buy a Tesla to help save the planet and then see emerald nepo baby Elon Musk doing hitler salutes, and US citizens downplaying it due to their special understanding of freedom of speech. Or a sweaty Peter Thiel morphing from startup evangelist to religious nut babbling about the antichrist. Or a Jeff Bezos who ships stuff from china to europe being so unhappy with his life that he needs to marry the wife of his neighbor. On top of this there's this still unresolved child sexual abuse scandal that basically implicates all of US upper class including senior leadership of US tech companies, who suddenly come out of retirement like Sergey Brin because they keep being mentioned in the Epstein files. For more and more non-US people the inconvenience of seeing all this outweighs the benefit of being able to use some sort of web application. We have survived before on Nokia phones and TomTom navigation systems, and we'll be able to do so again. US tech companies had US government support and helpful non-US regulatory environment to capture value from our countries. In their core, they are rent-seeking middlemen, parasitic to our economies. The parasite needs a host, but the host can always find a new parasite.
  - sieep 10mo ago
    I just can't see it happening. The United States benefits from decades of compounding advantages compared to the EU: elite research universities, talent pipelines, mature capital markets, and tons of integrated industries (fintech). This is obvious in the recent AI race. EU-headquartered companies remain rare compared to their US/Chinese counterparts.
    - ori_b 10mo ago
      The problem: you just listed all of the things under attack by the current administration.
    - ta20240528 10mo ago
      All true, but incomplete: you are not discounting these advantages with plain old 'industrial inertia'. Some stuff just went goes to the USA, because it always went to the USA - even though the original advantages are long gone. Screw with it enough and the users (the world) just route around the damage. As the UK can attest after Brexit.
    - bflesch 10mo ago
      AI race is a very good example, because Microsoft customers in the EU pay significantly increased Microsoft license fees so that Microsoft can give that money to OpenAI. Without Microsoft having non-US customers as a cash cow the AI valuations would not be anywhere where they are today. In return non-US Microsoft customers get a useless copilot slapped into all UIs and have to throw away all their computers and buy new ones just because of Windows 11 software update. The other things you list are weak arguments: - With mature capital markets you mean they plan to dismantle the Fed autonomy? Did you see the powell video? - Concerning "elite research universities": are you aware that they significantly cut research funding for US universities, prompting many researchers to move outside the country? - With talent pipeline do you mean top graduates from EU and other non-US regions who bring innovation to US tech companies? I think the delusion among US tech workers is immense. The moat is not that big. If other countries stop sharing your idea of copyright and software patents there is not much you can do.
  - mixmastamyk 10mo ago
    Investment would be great, but the tech already exists. From Suse linux, hetzner, fairphone, to LibreOffice and OnlyOffice. One simply needs to start using them. Investment can be focused on integration work and bug fixing.
webdevver 10mo ago
it would be so incredibly trumpian if he announces "Greencards For Greenland!" surely, surely someone has already brainstormed it...
- reactordev 10mo ago
  Only if you cough up enough green
shevy-java 10mo ago
Denmark is not alone here and it is also not just due to Trump threatening to enslave all Greenlanders by military junta force either. That is just part of the military complex being tied to "business" - and happened in the past too, by the way. Trump just makes it "more official". The whole TechBro mafia structure behind Trump has again and again threatened damage against Europeans. A good example was Vance trolling on the security conference in Munich, where he complained how the ultra right are silenced in Europe. This showed that the new agenda that the TechBros in the USA do, is actively hostile - this in addition to Trump acting as agent Krasnov buddy for Putin. So, any more money that goes into the USA, is ultimately money that goes against Europe. In many ways Canadians understand this problem MUCH better than many governments in Europe - just look at the german government. They are absolutely unwilling to stop being so obedient to the USA. Denmark at the least understands the problem - why is Germany so strange?
- pfisch 10mo ago
  idk, If I was in control of a country in the EU I would realize, unfortunately for pretty much everyone on the planet, that we have made a drastic miscalculation by relying on the US so heavily for defense. However, that is not something that can be reversed meaningfully in less than a decade. So for now, I would play the long game like Germany while working to get the EU to build up a military force large enough to significantly reduce our dependence on the US.
  - johnzim 10mo ago
    It's not as if the US hasn't repeatedly requested that European nations invest in their defense for the past few decades. Looking at it dispassionately as a European living in the US, if you wanted to foment the sort of mistrust many Americans have of Europe, I don't think you could have created a more invidious policy.
    - trymas 10mo ago
      Even though European defence investment was lacklustre - don't forget that those requests between the lines mean to buy US defence tech and still be dependent on US in time of war. Countries that have actually invested have same problems - dependance on US tech and their unreliable leadership. Those who had stockpiles of American weapons (or even components from US in mostly domestically made weapons) - still need to coordinate with US (cannot find in the moment, but I definitely read about this, when Sweden couldn't send weapons due to American components inside). France is mostly (totally??) independent in the matter of defence from America - and Americans hate French for that. America really hated de Gaulle's wish of military and political independence of Europe from America. But he was unsuccessful in his vision, essentially building this status quo: "Americans will military bases in European backyards, Europeans will be tame good boys and Americans will provide security with a pinky promise", Truman Doctrine - I believe. (West) Germany's extreme pacifism is also thanks to USAs efforts to not repeat Versaille treaty's failures and rise of new Hitler-like figure. > if you wanted to foment the sort of mistrust many Americans have of Europe, I don't think you could have created a more invidious policy Sounds like something from Project 2025 propaganda preparations. I will remind you that only USA triggered NATO Article 5 and whole Europe came to help in their now infamous "war on terror", even including countries that weren't in NATO at the time (though obviously were aligned and wanted to be there) and lost lives there. I would maybe have believe this statement if current administration would have gone 110% into isolationism, as their election shouts where "America First". At the time it was phrased as: they won't help Ukraine, NATO, or any other organisation/action happening outside USA. Now it means: USA will take anything by force whether you like it or not. Also you want to eat your cake and have it too. You still want to have tens of thousands of soldiers and your bases in EU, you want EU countries to invest in your defence sector (but pwease pwease don't get too independent, otherwise Uncle Sam will get angwy), though you want to freaking go to war against NATO countries, because Amerika stronk. Also not forget very close cooperation and access given to local military bases for Americans from European counterparts. Many NATO countries in Europe are steadily investing in defence for 10+ years (mostly from 2014 Crimea annexation) and many more waking up with 2022 total war on Ukraine from ruzzia. I want European part of NATO to be stronger and more decisive, actions are happening, but Europe still has democracy, not a some weird authoritarian kakistocracy with oligarchical flavour. So let's not pretend that Europe should pay for USA's wish for total hegemony, worldwide policing and global reserve currency. Europeans lost their lives in USAs wars and enabled this USA vision of global hegemony for last 70+ years. NB: also since last year all countries are spending at least a minimum: https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditu... Also expenditure is growing like crazy, especially since 2022 total war in Ukraine: https://www.nato.int/content/dam/nato/webready/documents/finance/def-exp-2025-en.pdf https://www.nato.int/content/dam/nato/webready/documents/fin... . And I believe there were budget plans since 2014 for all countries to reach 2% (i.e. well before trump took office): https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/defence-expenditures-and-natos-5-commitment https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/defe... - with commitments to increase spending to 5% in the next decade. These rambles prove to me yet again - in what information bubble USA lives, which is dictated by geriatric 80-year-olds still living 20+ years in the past inside their heads and transferred by ignorant talking heads of 24h news cycle.
CalRobert 10mo ago
Meanwhile, the Netherlands seems intent to sell its national login service to an American company. https://nltimes.nl/2026/01/15/dutch-experts-warn-us-takeover-digid-platform-poses-national-security-risks https://nltimes.nl/2026/01/15/dutch-experts-warn-us-takeover...
- sfvisser 10mo ago
  “The Netherlands” isn’t selling anything. The Dutch national government mandated login system relies on technologies and hosting of a private company that was in conversation with an American counterpart about a possible acquisition. Bad? Yes The Netherlands selling their login service? No
- Jaxan 10mo ago
  There is much more nuance to it: https://ibestuur.nl/markt-en-overheid/digitale-infrastructuur/brandbrief-over-digidrisicos-slaat-de-plank-mis https://ibestuur.nl/markt-en-overheid/digitale-infrastructuu...
bryanrasmussen 10mo ago
I've said it before - about MS. But if you move enough Danes off American IT the rest will follow, I think once you have a 30-40 percent move then within less than a year a landslide, maybe quicker as it is now tied up with patriotism.
petcat 10mo ago
> In 2024, Google ran a set of tests of user interest in news content in Denmark and several other countries, concluding that removing such content had “no measurable impact” on search ad revenue. Those findings — along with the testing itself — have come under harsh criticism from Danish lawmakers. I'm not really sure what Denmark is complaining about? It sounds like Google decided that removing Danish media and news from their services would have no impact on their finances whatsoever, therefore they are firm on their negotiating position since it's basically "take it or leave it". And Denmark is also somehow trying to force Google to list and index their media, and at their price.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  Because "business" isn't just "business" in Denmark and many other countries. Journalism for example, isn't just about the financial bottom-line, journalism has a societal role, and also the move could be seen as trying to avoid paying publishers under EU rules designed to support a free press. I think a lot of friction between businesses and countries in Europe can be better understood if we better understood the difference in how countries treat things like "business" and other stuff. I understand in the US it's different, money basically rules, you can fire people whenever you want and so on, but in many places in the world, people have a different relationship to businesses, it's not just about money there. Particularly when it comes to journalism. From reading news from Denmark about it, politicians been repeatedly argued that Google's framing reduces journalism to a revenue input, ignoring its democratic function.
  - petcat 10mo ago
    If journalism really weren't just about the financial bottom line in Denmark, then why are they quibbling over what Google will pay them at all? It sounds like they'll be happy with just Google listing and driving traffic to their content for free.
    - Herring 10mo ago
      You're missing the point. I speak American so I can translate. He's basically saying journalism is a matter of National Security. It needs to be done correctly to a high level at all costs, much like education. Google (Silicon Valley) is messing with it.
neuroelectron 10mo ago
Doesn't really doesn't matter what it cost to do. You should still do it. Of course, within reason, there may be some software that it's just intractable to reproduce.
- bflesch 10mo ago
  US tech companies are taking up middlemen roles to extract wealth from developed nations, while not adding a lot of value on their own. Their moat is not that big, and there are mature viable alternatives. One does not need google in their lives to be exposed to advertisements to a local brand. Or pay a percentage fee to paypal or visa if you buy a local product. US tech companies lose much more from a decoupling than Europe does.
  - lenerdenator 10mo ago
    It depends on more than just that. Mindshare, network effects, and the state of a technological art all matter. The moat crossing isn't in competing with the likes of Google or Paypal directly. The moat crossing is in accumulating enough capital to build the thing that leapfrogs them. Being a middleman allows you to accumulate a lot of money while expending fairly little of it. Then, you focus on the next thing, be it AI or whatever, while collecting middleman fees. This has a collective effect on a nation's economy. You could tell the American companies to go kick rocks and develop your own local alternatives, but then you're expending your capital on developing a local alternative, not developing the Next Big Thing (TM), and the Americans are. The risk is that your economy becomes less competitive overall while becoming more competitive with one segment of the American economy.
    - dismantlethesun 10mo ago
      On the other hand, you can’t develop a technology if you have no knowledge of its inner workings. This is an issue the US finds itself in now as it tries to onshore manufacturing again after allowing someone else to play middle man for decades. Yes, the US has plenty of capital resources but that doesn’t directly translate into production when you have to setup not just a single factory but an entire supply chain.
mathisfun123 10mo ago
i would take a 50% pay cut (FAANG) to move to denmark (with an accelerated path to perm residency) to work on whatever thing they want. any takers? actually any EU nation... Edit: with all of the negativity under this comment I'm reminded of a hilarious experience I had when I first interned at FB during grad school: I was on some online game with a friend of mine and his friend (whom I'd never met) and we were on voice chat. My buddy asks me how the internship is going and I gave the standard "it's hard but I'm learning a lot" response. Afterwards the third guy chimes in and asks if me I don't feel ashamed (or whatever) about working for FB. It was literally my first tech internship so I said something equivocal. Then I asked the guy what he did/where he worked. I shit you not the guy was literally a radar engineer for the US army. The irony was clearly lost on him and he even went as far as insisting he (as opposed to me) was doing very good/valuable work.
- bobsmooth 10mo ago
  Would you work in Europe for a 5 figure salary?
  - GrowingSideways 10mo ago
    Sure. Money isn't everything. A broader concern is that many european countries have similar problems like housing costs and a rising far-right without any better solution. And besides, these sky-high wages won't last for long with a state intent on isolating itself and starving its consumer base of wages. Personally, I'm looking at east asia and latin america.
    - bflesch 10mo ago
      I think you have the causation wrong. The far right is rising mostly due to social media which is full of fake news and propaganda. People working at US tech companies nurture this "engagement" in order to get rich while poisoning our societies.
      - petre 10mo ago
drnick1 10mo ago
So, once again, Stallman is proved right?
subroutine 10mo ago
> The publishers say that their industry is bleeding out while they wait for a deal that may never come. If your industry cannot sustain itself without checks from tech companies for using content as LLM training data that is quite a precarious situation. What was the economic situation for the news industry in Denmark prior to 2021?
- petcat 10mo ago
  This reads like they are trying to force American tech companies to subsidize their local news and journalism industries. The question is, if they want it so bad, why don't they just establish a state fund for news and journalism so they can subsidize it themselves? It honestly just feels like a shakedown.
  - robocat 10mo ago
    And they created a powerful cartel which can pressure politicians to benefit the cartel: The Danish Press Collective Management Organization (DPCMO), formed in 2021, now represents what CEO Karen Rønde calls a “99 percent mandate” of the entire industry.
djha-skin 10mo ago
It's not that hard to create your own search engine, office suite, and school ecosystem. I mean, no single one of google's services isn't replaceable, especially if a country sets its mind to it. Just do that if you're worried about it.
- tonymet 10mo ago
  Building it is easy , selling , adopting and migrating to it is hard
robin_reala 10mo ago
The local campaign related to this is Danmark Skifter (Denmark Changes): https://danmarkskifter.dk/en/ https://danmarkskifter.dk/en/

110 points by giuliomagnifico 10mo ago

I don’t think it will be a struggle for long. When you have a face to face meeting with your most powerful enemy and they tell you that they WILL conquer you (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/14/greenland-and-denmark-say-trump-set-on-conquering-territory-after-meeting https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/14/greenland-and-denma...), how can you stay coupled? This is going to accelerate the experiments started in Germany to move to open source software, etc. And I think Europe will pursue a heavy pivot to both grow local startups and couple to other powers like India or China. At least for the next 50 years or so, the memory of this Trump administration will undermine any coupling to America. In the interim, I am not sure why these countries are even wasting time talking to American companies or representatives - they are absolutely not going to be a trustworthy long term partner: > Rønde described the “Kafkaesque” experience of negotiating with local representatives who appear to have no actual authority.

dc396 10mo ago
I suspect there is going to be a flood of money in the EU for the creation of replacements for any US-based technology any of the EU countries are dependent upon (e.g., https://www.joindns4.eu https://www.joindns4.eu). The real questions are whether there will be regulatory reform in the EU to facilitate this and will the money NOT flow to the usual dinosaurs. My impression is that Trump has sufficient pissed off EU governments such that there is some (small) hope for both. EC bureaucrats and MEPs might do well to read https://berthub.eu https://berthub.eu.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  NATO allies like Germany are sending troops to protect their ally nation along with Denmark. This isn’t a fight Trump is prepared for. If he somehow decides to move forward - we are all going to have to face a hard choice.
  - ta20240528 10mo ago
    As a spectator from neither continent, I feel Trump is being a bit of a wuss. He should give into his vices, embrace his inner-Putin and demand a “land-bridge” from Washington State to Alaska. For national security reasons, of course.
  - terminalshort 10mo ago
    As much as I think US annexation of Greenland would be the single worst foreign policy move of my lifetime, and maybe in US history, the US military is not the one who isn't prepared for that fight.
    - reactordev 10mo ago
      I never said the military isn’t up for it. I said Trump and his administration aren’t. I know our military is full of ego and testosterone and they’ll fight anyone.
- mhitza 10mo ago
  My tax money is on the fact that it's going to go again to the dinosaurs. I cannot see them do any quick and adaptive change in the short term. I can see ways that could be really effective, though trying to get a sane word out to these bureaucrats nowadays seems impossible.
- bflesch 10mo ago
  US tech workers believe their own lies and think they have some sort of magic sauce. For decades they've enjoyed government welfare and US-friendly regulation in many countries, which kept non-US competition small. An influx of non-US talent to US tech companies helped them stay innovative. It is a courtesy that citizens from free countries pay US tech companies a middleman fee over various ways. What US tech workers fail to realize is that - nobody needs Facebook to chat with their family - nobody needs Visa, Paypal or Mastercard to pay in a local shop - nobody needs Netflix subscription to watch a movie created by a non-US entity - nobody needs to pay 50€ per month for privilege of Microsoft spying on your PC - nobody needs their emails/pictures held hostage by Apple or Google - nobody needs Uber in order to order a Taxi So many of these things were done due to convenience and convention, making US tech workers richer and richer. I feel people are realizing what kind of pricks not only the management of US tech companies but also the US tech workers themselves are. Especially on HN these affluent workers from US tech companies run around and parrot the most stupid talking points while thinking their wealth comes from some sort of special skill. We made them rich. They looted our data and poisoned our societies with fake news. They show no respect towards our systems or culture.
  - c-linkage 10mo ago
    The problem is that convenience trumps everything. - It is convenient to use Facebook to chat with family - It is convenient to use credit cards to pay the local shop - It is convenient to use Netflix to watch movies - It is convenient to pay a (lower) monthly fee than a (higher) purchase price for MS products - It is convenient to have Apple / Google take care of email - It is convenient to use Uber instead of a taxi The golden cage of convenience is why nothing will change in the US -- we prize convenience above all else.
    - bflesch 10mo ago
      Sorry to be blunt, but it is extremely inconvenient to be force-exposed to internal politics of some religious shithole country which twice votes against their own interests. Where people don't believe in healthcare but accept school shootings. Where society cares about body positivity until Ozempic arrives. A country which talks bigly about geopolitics and ignores agreements they have signed. It is inconvenient to buy a Tesla to help save the planet and then see emerald nepo baby Elon Musk doing hitler salutes, and US citizens downplaying it due to their special understanding of freedom of speech. Or a sweaty Peter Thiel morphing from startup evangelist to religious nut babbling about the antichrist. Or a Jeff Bezos who ships stuff from china to europe being so unhappy with his life that he needs to marry the wife of his neighbor. On top of this there's this still unresolved child sexual abuse scandal that basically implicates all of US upper class including senior leadership of US tech companies, who suddenly come out of retirement like Sergey Brin because they keep being mentioned in the Epstein files. For more and more non-US people the inconvenience of seeing all this outweighs the benefit of being able to use some sort of web application. We have survived before on Nokia phones and TomTom navigation systems, and we'll be able to do so again. US tech companies had US government support and helpful non-US regulatory environment to capture value from our countries. In their core, they are rent-seeking middlemen, parasitic to our economies. The parasite needs a host, but the host can always find a new parasite.
- sieep 10mo ago
  I just can't see it happening. The United States benefits from decades of compounding advantages compared to the EU: elite research universities, talent pipelines, mature capital markets, and tons of integrated industries (fintech). This is obvious in the recent AI race. EU-headquartered companies remain rare compared to their US/Chinese counterparts.
  - ori_b 10mo ago
    The problem: you just listed all of the things under attack by the current administration.
  - ta20240528 10mo ago
    All true, but incomplete: you are not discounting these advantages with plain old 'industrial inertia'. Some stuff just went goes to the USA, because it always went to the USA - even though the original advantages are long gone. Screw with it enough and the users (the world) just route around the damage. As the UK can attest after Brexit.
  - bflesch 10mo ago
    AI race is a very good example, because Microsoft customers in the EU pay significantly increased Microsoft license fees so that Microsoft can give that money to OpenAI. Without Microsoft having non-US customers as a cash cow the AI valuations would not be anywhere where they are today. In return non-US Microsoft customers get a useless copilot slapped into all UIs and have to throw away all their computers and buy new ones just because of Windows 11 software update. The other things you list are weak arguments: - With mature capital markets you mean they plan to dismantle the Fed autonomy? Did you see the powell video? - Concerning "elite research universities": are you aware that they significantly cut research funding for US universities, prompting many researchers to move outside the country? - With talent pipeline do you mean top graduates from EU and other non-US regions who bring innovation to US tech companies? I think the delusion among US tech workers is immense. The moat is not that big. If other countries stop sharing your idea of copyright and software patents there is not much you can do.
- mixmastamyk 10mo ago
  Investment would be great, but the tech already exists. From Suse linux, hetzner, fairphone, to LibreOffice and OnlyOffice. One simply needs to start using them. Investment can be focused on integration work and bug fixing.

webdevver 10mo ago

it would be so incredibly trumpian if he announces "Greencards For Greenland!" surely, surely someone has already brainstormed it...

reactordev 10mo ago
Only if you cough up enough green

shevy-java 10mo ago

Denmark is not alone here and it is also not just due to Trump threatening to enslave all Greenlanders by military junta force either. That is just part of the military complex being tied to "business" - and happened in the past too, by the way. Trump just makes it "more official". The whole TechBro mafia structure behind Trump has again and again threatened damage against Europeans. A good example was Vance trolling on the security conference in Munich, where he complained how the ultra right are silenced in Europe. This showed that the new agenda that the TechBros in the USA do, is actively hostile - this in addition to Trump acting as agent Krasnov buddy for Putin. So, any more money that goes into the USA, is ultimately money that goes against Europe. In many ways Canadians understand this problem MUCH better than many governments in Europe - just look at the german government. They are absolutely unwilling to stop being so obedient to the USA. Denmark at the least understands the problem - why is Germany so strange?

pfisch 10mo ago
idk, If I was in control of a country in the EU I would realize, unfortunately for pretty much everyone on the planet, that we have made a drastic miscalculation by relying on the US so heavily for defense. However, that is not something that can be reversed meaningfully in less than a decade. So for now, I would play the long game like Germany while working to get the EU to build up a military force large enough to significantly reduce our dependence on the US.
- johnzim 10mo ago
  It's not as if the US hasn't repeatedly requested that European nations invest in their defense for the past few decades. Looking at it dispassionately as a European living in the US, if you wanted to foment the sort of mistrust many Americans have of Europe, I don't think you could have created a more invidious policy.
  - trymas 10mo ago
    Even though European defence investment was lacklustre - don't forget that those requests between the lines mean to buy US defence tech and still be dependent on US in time of war. Countries that have actually invested have same problems - dependance on US tech and their unreliable leadership. Those who had stockpiles of American weapons (or even components from US in mostly domestically made weapons) - still need to coordinate with US (cannot find in the moment, but I definitely read about this, when Sweden couldn't send weapons due to American components inside). France is mostly (totally??) independent in the matter of defence from America - and Americans hate French for that. America really hated de Gaulle's wish of military and political independence of Europe from America. But he was unsuccessful in his vision, essentially building this status quo: "Americans will military bases in European backyards, Europeans will be tame good boys and Americans will provide security with a pinky promise", Truman Doctrine - I believe. (West) Germany's extreme pacifism is also thanks to USAs efforts to not repeat Versaille treaty's failures and rise of new Hitler-like figure. > if you wanted to foment the sort of mistrust many Americans have of Europe, I don't think you could have created a more invidious policy Sounds like something from Project 2025 propaganda preparations. I will remind you that only USA triggered NATO Article 5 and whole Europe came to help in their now infamous "war on terror", even including countries that weren't in NATO at the time (though obviously were aligned and wanted to be there) and lost lives there. I would maybe have believe this statement if current administration would have gone 110% into isolationism, as their election shouts where "America First". At the time it was phrased as: they won't help Ukraine, NATO, or any other organisation/action happening outside USA. Now it means: USA will take anything by force whether you like it or not. Also you want to eat your cake and have it too. You still want to have tens of thousands of soldiers and your bases in EU, you want EU countries to invest in your defence sector (but pwease pwease don't get too independent, otherwise Uncle Sam will get angwy), though you want to freaking go to war against NATO countries, because Amerika stronk. Also not forget very close cooperation and access given to local military bases for Americans from European counterparts. Many NATO countries in Europe are steadily investing in defence for 10+ years (mostly from 2014 Crimea annexation) and many more waking up with 2022 total war on Ukraine from ruzzia. I want European part of NATO to be stronger and more decisive, actions are happening, but Europe still has democracy, not a some weird authoritarian kakistocracy with oligarchical flavour. So let's not pretend that Europe should pay for USA's wish for total hegemony, worldwide policing and global reserve currency. Europeans lost their lives in USAs wars and enabled this USA vision of global hegemony for last 70+ years. NB: also since last year all countries are spending at least a minimum: https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditu... Also expenditure is growing like crazy, especially since 2022 total war in Ukraine: https://www.nato.int/content/dam/nato/webready/documents/finance/def-exp-2025-en.pdf https://www.nato.int/content/dam/nato/webready/documents/fin... . And I believe there were budget plans since 2014 for all countries to reach 2% (i.e. well before trump took office): https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/defence-expenditures-and-natos-5-commitment https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/defe... - with commitments to increase spending to 5% in the next decade. These rambles prove to me yet again - in what information bubble USA lives, which is dictated by geriatric 80-year-olds still living 20+ years in the past inside their heads and transferred by ignorant talking heads of 24h news cycle.

CalRobert 10mo ago

Meanwhile, the Netherlands seems intent to sell its national login service to an American company. https://nltimes.nl/2026/01/15/dutch-experts-warn-us-takeover-digid-platform-poses-national-security-risks https://nltimes.nl/2026/01/15/dutch-experts-warn-us-takeover...

sfvisser 10mo ago
“The Netherlands” isn’t selling anything. The Dutch national government mandated login system relies on technologies and hosting of a private company that was in conversation with an American counterpart about a possible acquisition. Bad? Yes The Netherlands selling their login service? No
Jaxan 10mo ago
There is much more nuance to it: https://ibestuur.nl/markt-en-overheid/digitale-infrastructuur/brandbrief-over-digidrisicos-slaat-de-plank-mis https://ibestuur.nl/markt-en-overheid/digitale-infrastructuu...

bryanrasmussen 10mo ago

I've said it before - about MS. But if you move enough Danes off American IT the rest will follow, I think once you have a 30-40 percent move then within less than a year a landslide, maybe quicker as it is now tied up with patriotism.

petcat 10mo ago

> In 2024, Google ran a set of tests of user interest in news content in Denmark and several other countries, concluding that removing such content had “no measurable impact” on search ad revenue. Those findings — along with the testing itself — have come under harsh criticism from Danish lawmakers. I'm not really sure what Denmark is complaining about? It sounds like Google decided that removing Danish media and news from their services would have no impact on their finances whatsoever, therefore they are firm on their negotiating position since it's basically "take it or leave it". And Denmark is also somehow trying to force Google to list and index their media, and at their price.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
Because "business" isn't just "business" in Denmark and many other countries. Journalism for example, isn't just about the financial bottom-line, journalism has a societal role, and also the move could be seen as trying to avoid paying publishers under EU rules designed to support a free press. I think a lot of friction between businesses and countries in Europe can be better understood if we better understood the difference in how countries treat things like "business" and other stuff. I understand in the US it's different, money basically rules, you can fire people whenever you want and so on, but in many places in the world, people have a different relationship to businesses, it's not just about money there. Particularly when it comes to journalism. From reading news from Denmark about it, politicians been repeatedly argued that Google's framing reduces journalism to a revenue input, ignoring its democratic function.
- petcat 10mo ago
  If journalism really weren't just about the financial bottom line in Denmark, then why are they quibbling over what Google will pay them at all? It sounds like they'll be happy with just Google listing and driving traffic to their content for free.
  - Herring 10mo ago
    You're missing the point. I speak American so I can translate. He's basically saying journalism is a matter of National Security. It needs to be done correctly to a high level at all costs, much like education. Google (Silicon Valley) is messing with it.

neuroelectron 10mo ago

Doesn't really doesn't matter what it cost to do. You should still do it. Of course, within reason, there may be some software that it's just intractable to reproduce.

bflesch 10mo ago
US tech companies are taking up middlemen roles to extract wealth from developed nations, while not adding a lot of value on their own. Their moat is not that big, and there are mature viable alternatives. One does not need google in their lives to be exposed to advertisements to a local brand. Or pay a percentage fee to paypal or visa if you buy a local product. US tech companies lose much more from a decoupling than Europe does.
- lenerdenator 10mo ago
  It depends on more than just that. Mindshare, network effects, and the state of a technological art all matter. The moat crossing isn't in competing with the likes of Google or Paypal directly. The moat crossing is in accumulating enough capital to build the thing that leapfrogs them. Being a middleman allows you to accumulate a lot of money while expending fairly little of it. Then, you focus on the next thing, be it AI or whatever, while collecting middleman fees. This has a collective effect on a nation's economy. You could tell the American companies to go kick rocks and develop your own local alternatives, but then you're expending your capital on developing a local alternative, not developing the Next Big Thing (TM), and the Americans are. The risk is that your economy becomes less competitive overall while becoming more competitive with one segment of the American economy.
  - dismantlethesun 10mo ago
    On the other hand, you can’t develop a technology if you have no knowledge of its inner workings. This is an issue the US finds itself in now as it tries to onshore manufacturing again after allowing someone else to play middle man for decades. Yes, the US has plenty of capital resources but that doesn’t directly translate into production when you have to setup not just a single factory but an entire supply chain.

mathisfun123 10mo ago

i would take a 50% pay cut (FAANG) to move to denmark (with an accelerated path to perm residency) to work on whatever thing they want. any takers? actually any EU nation... Edit: with all of the negativity under this comment I'm reminded of a hilarious experience I had when I first interned at FB during grad school: I was on some online game with a friend of mine and his friend (whom I'd never met) and we were on voice chat. My buddy asks me how the internship is going and I gave the standard "it's hard but I'm learning a lot" response. Afterwards the third guy chimes in and asks if me I don't feel ashamed (or whatever) about working for FB. It was literally my first tech internship so I said something equivocal. Then I asked the guy what he did/where he worked. I shit you not the guy was literally a radar engineer for the US army. The irony was clearly lost on him and he even went as far as insisting he (as opposed to me) was doing very good/valuable work.

bobsmooth 10mo ago
Would you work in Europe for a 5 figure salary?
- GrowingSideways 10mo ago
  Sure. Money isn't everything. A broader concern is that many european countries have similar problems like housing costs and a rising far-right without any better solution. And besides, these sky-high wages won't last for long with a state intent on isolating itself and starving its consumer base of wages. Personally, I'm looking at east asia and latin america.
  - bflesch 10mo ago
    I think you have the causation wrong. The far right is rising mostly due to social media which is full of fake news and propaganda. People working at US tech companies nurture this "engagement" in order to get rich while poisoning our societies.
    - petre 10mo ago

drnick1 10mo ago

So, once again, Stallman is proved right?

subroutine 10mo ago

> The publishers say that their industry is bleeding out while they wait for a deal that may never come. If your industry cannot sustain itself without checks from tech companies for using content as LLM training data that is quite a precarious situation. What was the economic situation for the news industry in Denmark prior to 2021?

petcat 10mo ago
This reads like they are trying to force American tech companies to subsidize their local news and journalism industries. The question is, if they want it so bad, why don't they just establish a state fund for news and journalism so they can subsidize it themselves? It honestly just feels like a shakedown.
- robocat 10mo ago
  And they created a powerful cartel which can pressure politicians to benefit the cartel: The Danish Press Collective Management Organization (DPCMO), formed in 2021, now represents what CEO Karen Rønde calls a “99 percent mandate” of the entire industry.

djha-skin 10mo ago

It's not that hard to create your own search engine, office suite, and school ecosystem. I mean, no single one of google's services isn't replaceable, especially if a country sets its mind to it. Just do that if you're worried about it.

tonymet 10mo ago
Building it is easy , selling , adopting and migrating to it is hard

robin_reala 10mo ago

The local campaign related to this is Danmark Skifter (Denmark Changes): https://danmarkskifter.dk/en/ https://danmarkskifter.dk/en/