3 ms·

Command K Bars

21 points by Brajeshwar 10mo ago

mikey_p 10mo ago
The problem with this pattern is that command-k was already a commonly used shortcut for creating a link, which meant that products like Slack had to find something new for making a link so they overloaded paste which is super broken as a result.
amitp 10mo ago
Also, emacs M-x from 1980 or maybe TECO's extended command from 1978 (learned these from Bobbie Chen who wrote https://digitalseams.com/blog/why-do-sublime-text-and-vs-code-use-ctrl-shift-p-for-the-command-bar https://digitalseams.com/blog/why-do-sublime-text-and-vs-cod...)
benvan 10mo ago
Some fun history on how the cmd-k shortcut came to be: https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/153937 https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/153937
- mikey_p 10mo ago
  So I'm right to blame Slack for overloading an already existing shortcut??!? I've always blamed Slack, but I didn't know it actually was Slack that started this madness.
- bobbiechen 10mo ago
  Too humble to mention that you're the creator :) thank you Ben! In my opinion, Slack is the application that really popularized the command bar/palette in the mainstream.
  - wink 10mo ago
    Popularized, probably true. But now I wonder which (maybe default?) keybinds I had for this in tiling window managers before Slack existed. And no clue when and how OS X introduced cmd-space.
crtasm 10mo ago
It's so frustrating when websites hijack this shortcut.
netghost 10mo ago
I'll just mention that if you follow the link and read the article, linger a while. Maggie Appleton's site is delightfully designed and thoughtful written. There are a ton of wonderful articles to enjoy there.
chrismorgan 10mo ago
> By stashing infrequently-used items in a command bar like this, […] You don’t need to add that extra toolbar or layer of menu items. I’m concerned, from this description, about people putting features only in a command palette, and rendering features completely undiscoverable. This is one of the big problems of Windows’ Start Menu ever since Vista. In XP, you could find all your programs easily. Vista kinda hid them, and Windows 8 hid them a little more, and 11 hid them a lot more. They’re still there, but honestly difficult to find. So please make sure your features are still discoverable. Also remember that a lot of users are shockingly bad at typing. Command bars are a power user feature.
- cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
  This is one of the reasons why I’m a super fan of the macOS global menubar. It’s always present and cannot be hidden by app developers, and so there’s no reason to not populate it, and thus the menubar serves as a consistently available master index of the program’s functions. That alone makes it invaluable.
  - chrismorgan 10mo ago
    I’m extremely disappointed Ubuntu gave up on Unity. It had the same basic concept, and menus being searchable was so good. GNOME’s determined direction (Adwaita) is so dumb for anything but small, simple apps. Just hopelessly bad. Mind you, app-defined command palettes can be better than a global one because they can provide more information and context and augment it with other widgets as appropriate. The best command palettes are not just a searchable version of the menu, they add more.
    - cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
      I think probably app-defined palettes and a global menu is best possible combo. The app-defined palette enables more rich functionality as you’ve mentioned, while the system-owned global menu provides a consistent way to see everything an app is capable of without hunting and pecking through the palette. The menu also serves as a unified API for assistive and automation technology to interact with software and allows users to choose how the menus are displayed (don’t like a top-aligned menubar? Cool, your desktop can present it as window attached menus, a pie menu, or NeXT style floating menus or anything else you can imagine).
WithinReason 10mo ago
PowerToys is the Windows equivalent
bitwize 10mo ago
I'm glad to see that other software companies had recognized the power of M-x, which had been in Emacs since before GNU Emacs. Now if only they'd understand the power of immediate, pervasive extensibility in Lisp (Autodesk did!).
- iLemming 10mo ago
  If humans gravitated towards choosing logical paths instead of following emotions, they would be equally miserable, with the difference of added awareness - they'd still be miserable yet know why. It makes me sad to watch how some of the smartest and most resourceful programmers on the planet just keep ignoring the immense power, liberation, and joy that knowing some Lisp can grant you. Reminds me the quote from Idiocracy - "for the smartest guy in the world, you're pretty dumb sometimes"...
n8cpdx 10mo ago
How did these come to be associated with command-k and not command-p, which is the more common association at least for developer tools (chrome, vs code, sublime, figma, obsidian)? Command P makes sense since it is a Palette. Maybe it is just a weird quirk that all developer-facing tools use one binding while tools for the hoi polloi use the other. Particularly offensive to try to name the whole concept after Slack’s default keybinding.
- treetalker 10mo ago
  I think most people associate ⌘P with printing.
- wink 10mo ago
  Half of the things you mentioned only came out after 2014. My Chrome wants to print with Comamnd-P. But I'm not disagreeing in principle, I personally use so many of these fuzzy search things in so many apps, all with different keybinds (which is maddening in another way) - and maybe that's just the objectively most well-known one?
  - n8cpdx 10mo ago
    You’re right command-p prints in the common view, but opens command palette in devtools. That actually catches me out pretty frequently if I forget I moved focus.
netghost 10mo ago
Did you know that macos has had a per application menu that does this for years? In most apps, press "cmd-shift ?" And you will activate the help search. I know, I know. We don't need help, but the other thing it does is reveal menu items from the native menubar. It's great for finding fiddly commands in complex native apps.

21 points by Brajeshwar 10mo ago

The problem with this pattern is that command-k was already a commonly used shortcut for creating a link, which meant that products like Slack had to find something new for making a link so they overloaded paste which is super broken as a result.

amitp 10mo ago

Also, emacs M-x from 1980 or maybe TECO's extended command from 1978 (learned these from Bobbie Chen who wrote https://digitalseams.com/blog/why-do-sublime-text-and-vs-code-use-ctrl-shift-p-for-the-command-bar https://digitalseams.com/blog/why-do-sublime-text-and-vs-cod...)

benvan 10mo ago

Some fun history on how the cmd-k shortcut came to be: https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/153937 https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/153937

mikey_p 10mo ago
So I'm right to blame Slack for overloading an already existing shortcut??!? I've always blamed Slack, but I didn't know it actually was Slack that started this madness.
bobbiechen 10mo ago
Too humble to mention that you're the creator :) thank you Ben! In my opinion, Slack is the application that really popularized the command bar/palette in the mainstream.
- wink 10mo ago
  Popularized, probably true. But now I wonder which (maybe default?) keybinds I had for this in tiling window managers before Slack existed. And no clue when and how OS X introduced cmd-space.

crtasm 10mo ago

It's so frustrating when websites hijack this shortcut.

netghost 10mo ago

I'll just mention that if you follow the link and read the article, linger a while. Maggie Appleton's site is delightfully designed and thoughtful written. There are a ton of wonderful articles to enjoy there.

chrismorgan 10mo ago

> By stashing infrequently-used items in a command bar like this, […] You don’t need to add that extra toolbar or layer of menu items. I’m concerned, from this description, about people putting features only in a command palette, and rendering features completely undiscoverable. This is one of the big problems of Windows’ Start Menu ever since Vista. In XP, you could find all your programs easily. Vista kinda hid them, and Windows 8 hid them a little more, and 11 hid them a lot more. They’re still there, but honestly difficult to find. So please make sure your features are still discoverable. Also remember that a lot of users are shockingly bad at typing. Command bars are a power user feature.

cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
This is one of the reasons why I’m a super fan of the macOS global menubar. It’s always present and cannot be hidden by app developers, and so there’s no reason to not populate it, and thus the menubar serves as a consistently available master index of the program’s functions. That alone makes it invaluable.
- chrismorgan 10mo ago
  I’m extremely disappointed Ubuntu gave up on Unity. It had the same basic concept, and menus being searchable was so good. GNOME’s determined direction (Adwaita) is so dumb for anything but small, simple apps. Just hopelessly bad. Mind you, app-defined command palettes can be better than a global one because they can provide more information and context and augment it with other widgets as appropriate. The best command palettes are not just a searchable version of the menu, they add more.
  - cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
    I think probably app-defined palettes and a global menu is best possible combo. The app-defined palette enables more rich functionality as you’ve mentioned, while the system-owned global menu provides a consistent way to see everything an app is capable of without hunting and pecking through the palette. The menu also serves as a unified API for assistive and automation technology to interact with software and allows users to choose how the menus are displayed (don’t like a top-aligned menubar? Cool, your desktop can present it as window attached menus, a pie menu, or NeXT style floating menus or anything else you can imagine).

WithinReason 10mo ago

PowerToys is the Windows equivalent

bitwize 10mo ago

I'm glad to see that other software companies had recognized the power of M-x, which had been in Emacs since before GNU Emacs. Now if only they'd understand the power of immediate, pervasive extensibility in Lisp (Autodesk did!).

iLemming 10mo ago
If humans gravitated towards choosing logical paths instead of following emotions, they would be equally miserable, with the difference of added awareness - they'd still be miserable yet know why. It makes me sad to watch how some of the smartest and most resourceful programmers on the planet just keep ignoring the immense power, liberation, and joy that knowing some Lisp can grant you. Reminds me the quote from Idiocracy - "for the smartest guy in the world, you're pretty dumb sometimes"...

n8cpdx 10mo ago

How did these come to be associated with command-k and not command-p, which is the more common association at least for developer tools (chrome, vs code, sublime, figma, obsidian)? Command P makes sense since it is a Palette. Maybe it is just a weird quirk that all developer-facing tools use one binding while tools for the hoi polloi use the other. Particularly offensive to try to name the whole concept after Slack’s default keybinding.

treetalker 10mo ago
I think most people associate ⌘P with printing.
wink 10mo ago
Half of the things you mentioned only came out after 2014. My Chrome wants to print with Comamnd-P. But I'm not disagreeing in principle, I personally use so many of these fuzzy search things in so many apps, all with different keybinds (which is maddening in another way) - and maybe that's just the objectively most well-known one?
- n8cpdx 10mo ago
  You’re right command-p prints in the common view, but opens command palette in devtools. That actually catches me out pretty frequently if I forget I moved focus.

netghost 10mo ago

Did you know that macos has had a per application menu that does this for years? In most apps, press "cmd-shift ?" And you will activate the help search. I know, I know. We don't need help, but the other thing it does is reveal menu items from the native menubar. It's great for finding fiddly commands in complex native apps.