6 ms·

If you buy a consumer product labeled "military grade" you are buying snake oil. And not just snake oil, incredibly over priced snake oil.

oliyoung 9mo ago
What if it's Military Grade Snake Oil?
- colechristensen 9mo ago
  Someone should legit retry actually selling oil made of snakes as a miracle solution to some modern problem.
- ASalazarMX 9mo ago
  The best snake oil money can buy!
anonym29 9mo ago
Military grade: mass produced by the lowest bidder
- snowmobile 9mo ago
  I only use handmade artisanal networking equipment.
  - pseudohadamard 9mo ago
    Hand-beaten from Tibetan silver by buddhist monks who live in a cave in the Himalayas. You just have to make sure the chakras are aligned correctly when you've installed it.
- daedrdev 9mo ago
  There are plenty of things where mil spec is extremely strict and high quality. They wont be sold to consumers as they are priced accordingly
  - esseph 9mo ago
    A company can not sell a product to consumers cheaper than it can sell to the federal government, and the federal government contract normally comes first. A lot of the stuff you can buy (minus restricted items), it'll just cost you.
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      They can't sell the same thing but they can sell something slightly different. put a different type of paint on it and you can sell for different prices.
      - esseph 9mo ago
        Untrue, otherwise vendors would be doing this instead of leaving tons of money on the table.
- kakwa_ 9mo ago
  Well, not mass produced enough. Common mass produced products manufacturers have incentives to not mess-up too badly: recalls or warranties on such scales are a nightmare. With military contracts, its a paid maintenance opportunity.
- mjanx123 9mo ago
  > Military grade: mass produced by the lowest bidder This In the military, military grade is a synonym for crap
somat 9mo ago
Military-grade just means it has a spec, now, I will admit having a spec is nice, very nice. but in general it says little about the actual quality of the item. And if the spec can't be found or there is no spec. Probably best to stay away, in those cases they are not even selling you the snake oil but the sound of it sloshing in the bottle.
- culi 9mo ago
  There is no legal requirement for it to refer to MIL-SPEC. More often than not it is just pure marketing without any actual spec tied to it
  - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
    Military grade afaict just implies the military ‘could’ use it, by that definition almost any company sells military grade products or services, except companies who explicitly would not sell to the military.
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      the military often writes a spec and then refuses to buy anything that doesn't meet it. Most soldiers are not going to walmart to get supplies - even f walmart sells that type of thing.
      - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
        I’m not talking about what the military could or would use, I’m talking about what it takes for something to be called military grade.
        colechristensen 9mo ago
        "military grade" isn't a protected phrase. As a consumer you might be able to sue them if the thing breaks and they can't prove that phrase meant anything? But doubtful. Claiming to conform to a more specific product or process standard would be more specific fraud. But in general though "military grade" is a red flag for shitty marketing. Example: pop tarts are military grade! [1] Though their commercial packaging is likely not. https://www.dla.mil/Portals/104/Documents/TroopSupport/Subsistence/Rations/cids/qapkg/Q-20211.pdf https://www.dla.mil/Portals/104/Documents/TroopSupport/Subsi...
1970-01-01 9mo ago
Exactly. It's a very successful marketing play on MIL-SPEC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Standard#MIL-SPEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Standar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade
donw 9mo ago
"Military-grade" has a very specific meaning: it's at least 10x overpriced and painted black.
- ekropotin 9mo ago
  Why black? Shouldn’t it be camouflage?
  - reactordev 9mo ago
    Drop it in some mud
  - addaon 9mo ago
    No, that would be “tactical.”
- mrexroad 9mo ago
  I personally look for the 1,000x overpriced space marine spec so I can get it in white.
  - donw 9mo ago
    No heresy detected in this thread.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
chneu 9mo ago
Basically same with any company with "Patriot" or "Veteran" in the name. It's just a weak pander to people's weak egos. Freedumb, if you will.
- dismalpedigree 9mo ago
  Tactical everything!
- zeristor 9mo ago
  I’m waiting for “Titanium Sourdough” optical fibres myself.
  - harvey9 9mo ago
    Well those materials are verifiable at least.
    - colechristensen 9mo ago
      My favorite are "titanium" products which are just electroplated with a layer of titanium a few atoms thick.
- mlrtime 9mo ago
  Not really if it is owned by Veterans. There are many veteran owned businesses and I see nothing wrong with it.
- Forgeties79 9mo ago
  I don’t disagree but it’s not hard to understand why people think “military grade” means it’s better. “Military grade” communicates tough/durable/stress tested to a lot of people. Veteran/patriot isn’t an indicator of build quality, even if it is also pandering to a certain sensibility.
  - russdill 9mo ago
    For many products it just means it's a small run from a group that may not have a lot of domain experience using materials and methods that will make the end product appear superior to buyers.
ErroneousBosh 9mo ago
If you buy a commercial product labelled "military grade", you are also buying snake oil. "Military grade" is generally shit. It's built down to a price, manufactured the cheapest possible way, so they can get the lowest possible tender submitted. Bonus prize if the manufacturer is owned by either someone already in government, or with close ties to someone in government. The only "military grade" devices I own are some woefully unsuccessful radios, which failed in the market because they were actually good - easy to use, reliable, and easy to repair - which made them about 5% more expensive than the cheapest option which was made by a company part-owned by the government and part-owned by someone who donates heavily to the Conservatives.
TacticalCoder 9mo ago
But shitload of vendors won't bother and just sell you a "military grade" or, even in non-english speaking countriess, say a "MIL-SPEC Daniel Defense AR-15". They won't list every spec in detail. And they make good AR-15s (but not cheap). Anyone who thinks the triggers listed as MIL-SPEC from, say, Geissele here: https://geissele.com/triggers.html https://geissele.com/triggers.html aren't totally fine is out of his mind. They're amazing triggers, widely used and loved. And they don't say which specs its passing (at least not on the main page): it's just MIL-SPEC. As a sidenote my very best laptop passes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810 but most people will just say it's "military grade" or "MIL-SPEC". Guess what? Its screen never broke overnight like the one of my MacBook M1 Air did (the infamous "bendgate"). I can bend my LG Gram's screen and it's keeps working fine. I can let it drop. Friend who sold it to me stepped on it when he woke up once. There's a very big difference between saying: "There are shady vendors" and saying "Military specs do not exists and it's impossible for consumers to buy items passing military specifications". Yes, there are dishonest vendors. Yes, military specs do exist. And, yes, it's possible for consumers to buy products passing (and even surpassing) actual military specs.
iso1631 9mo ago
> incredibly over priced snake oil. Military grade snake oil? When I see "military grade" I assume overpriced $30,000 hammer
misnome 9mo ago
FS will literally sell you heavy-duty Armored (e.g. thicker/stronger sheath) cable and the packet it comes in will be labelled "military grade". That's literally your scenario. Is one supposed to send it back for a refund and order the much thinner, less-durable cable? Or is perhaps the landscape not as black-and-white as your "this is automatically snake-oil"?
yumraj 9mo ago
There are even military grade phone cases, whatever that means.
dlcarrier 9mo ago
There are some ratings, like semiconductor temperature ratings, with labels that include "military", (e.g. manufacturers may name their products, from the narrowest to widest operating temperatures, with something like: commercial, industrial, automotive, military) and "military" would indicate a better product. On the other hand, when a product is designed and manufactured to sell to a military, it's going to be expensive, and that extra cost isn't going to quality or capability, it's going to compliance. You're more than likely paying extra to get something using some old and outdated technology, that includes paperwork to prove that it's only built using the approved old and outdated technology.

oliyoung 9mo ago

What if it's Military Grade Snake Oil?

colechristensen 9mo ago
Someone should legit retry actually selling oil made of snakes as a miracle solution to some modern problem.
ASalazarMX 9mo ago
The best snake oil money can buy!

anonym29 9mo ago

Military grade: mass produced by the lowest bidder

snowmobile 9mo ago
I only use handmade artisanal networking equipment.
- pseudohadamard 9mo ago
  Hand-beaten from Tibetan silver by buddhist monks who live in a cave in the Himalayas. You just have to make sure the chakras are aligned correctly when you've installed it.
daedrdev 9mo ago
There are plenty of things where mil spec is extremely strict and high quality. They wont be sold to consumers as they are priced accordingly
- esseph 9mo ago
  A company can not sell a product to consumers cheaper than it can sell to the federal government, and the federal government contract normally comes first. A lot of the stuff you can buy (minus restricted items), it'll just cost you.
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    They can't sell the same thing but they can sell something slightly different. put a different type of paint on it and you can sell for different prices.
    - esseph 9mo ago
      Untrue, otherwise vendors would be doing this instead of leaving tons of money on the table.
kakwa_ 9mo ago
Well, not mass produced enough. Common mass produced products manufacturers have incentives to not mess-up too badly: recalls or warranties on such scales are a nightmare. With military contracts, its a paid maintenance opportunity.
mjanx123 9mo ago
> Military grade: mass produced by the lowest bidder This In the military, military grade is a synonym for crap

somat 9mo ago

Military-grade just means it has a spec, now, I will admit having a spec is nice, very nice. but in general it says little about the actual quality of the item. And if the spec can't be found or there is no spec. Probably best to stay away, in those cases they are not even selling you the snake oil but the sound of it sloshing in the bottle.

culi 9mo ago
There is no legal requirement for it to refer to MIL-SPEC. More often than not it is just pure marketing without any actual spec tied to it
- hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
  Military grade afaict just implies the military ‘could’ use it, by that definition almost any company sells military grade products or services, except companies who explicitly would not sell to the military.
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    the military often writes a spec and then refuses to buy anything that doesn't meet it. Most soldiers are not going to walmart to get supplies - even f walmart sells that type of thing.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
      I’m not talking about what the military could or would use, I’m talking about what it takes for something to be called military grade.
      - colechristensen 9mo ago
        "military grade" isn't a protected phrase. As a consumer you might be able to sue them if the thing breaks and they can't prove that phrase meant anything? But doubtful. Claiming to conform to a more specific product or process standard would be more specific fraud. But in general though "military grade" is a red flag for shitty marketing. Example: pop tarts are military grade! [1] Though their commercial packaging is likely not. https://www.dla.mil/Portals/104/Documents/TroopSupport/Subsistence/Rations/cids/qapkg/Q-20211.pdf https://www.dla.mil/Portals/104/Documents/TroopSupport/Subsi...

1970-01-01 9mo ago

Exactly. It's a very successful marketing play on MIL-SPEC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Standard#MIL-SPEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Standar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade

donw 9mo ago

"Military-grade" has a very specific meaning: it's at least 10x overpriced and painted black.

ekropotin 9mo ago
Why black? Shouldn’t it be camouflage?
- reactordev 9mo ago
  Drop it in some mud
- addaon 9mo ago
  No, that would be “tactical.”
mrexroad 9mo ago
I personally look for the 1,000x overpriced space marine spec so I can get it in white.
- donw 9mo ago
  No heresy detected in this thread.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

chneu 9mo ago

Basically same with any company with "Patriot" or "Veteran" in the name. It's just a weak pander to people's weak egos. Freedumb, if you will.

dismalpedigree 9mo ago
Tactical everything!
zeristor 9mo ago
I’m waiting for “Titanium Sourdough” optical fibres myself.
- harvey9 9mo ago
  Well those materials are verifiable at least.
  - colechristensen 9mo ago
    My favorite are "titanium" products which are just electroplated with a layer of titanium a few atoms thick.
mlrtime 9mo ago
Not really if it is owned by Veterans. There are many veteran owned businesses and I see nothing wrong with it.
Forgeties79 9mo ago
I don’t disagree but it’s not hard to understand why people think “military grade” means it’s better. “Military grade” communicates tough/durable/stress tested to a lot of people. Veteran/patriot isn’t an indicator of build quality, even if it is also pandering to a certain sensibility.
- russdill 9mo ago
  For many products it just means it's a small run from a group that may not have a lot of domain experience using materials and methods that will make the end product appear superior to buyers.

ErroneousBosh 9mo ago

If you buy a commercial product labelled "military grade", you are also buying snake oil. "Military grade" is generally shit. It's built down to a price, manufactured the cheapest possible way, so they can get the lowest possible tender submitted. Bonus prize if the manufacturer is owned by either someone already in government, or with close ties to someone in government. The only "military grade" devices I own are some woefully unsuccessful radios, which failed in the market because they were actually good - easy to use, reliable, and easy to repair - which made them about 5% more expensive than the cheapest option which was made by a company part-owned by the government and part-owned by someone who donates heavily to the Conservatives.

TacticalCoder 9mo ago

But shitload of vendors won't bother and just sell you a "military grade" or, even in non-english speaking countriess, say a "MIL-SPEC Daniel Defense AR-15". They won't list every spec in detail. And they make good AR-15s (but not cheap). Anyone who thinks the triggers listed as MIL-SPEC from, say, Geissele here: https://geissele.com/triggers.html https://geissele.com/triggers.html aren't totally fine is out of his mind. They're amazing triggers, widely used and loved. And they don't say which specs its passing (at least not on the main page): it's just MIL-SPEC. As a sidenote my very best laptop passes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810 but most people will just say it's "military grade" or "MIL-SPEC". Guess what? Its screen never broke overnight like the one of my MacBook M1 Air did (the infamous "bendgate"). I can bend my LG Gram's screen and it's keeps working fine. I can let it drop. Friend who sold it to me stepped on it when he woke up once. There's a very big difference between saying: "There are shady vendors" and saying "Military specs do not exists and it's impossible for consumers to buy items passing military specifications". Yes, there are dishonest vendors. Yes, military specs do exist. And, yes, it's possible for consumers to buy products passing (and even surpassing) actual military specs.

iso1631 9mo ago

> incredibly over priced snake oil. Military grade snake oil? When I see "military grade" I assume overpriced $30,000 hammer

misnome 9mo ago

FS will literally sell you heavy-duty Armored (e.g. thicker/stronger sheath) cable and the packet it comes in will be labelled "military grade". That's literally your scenario. Is one supposed to send it back for a refund and order the much thinner, less-durable cable? Or is perhaps the landscape not as black-and-white as your "this is automatically snake-oil"?

yumraj 9mo ago

There are even military grade phone cases, whatever that means.

dlcarrier 9mo ago

There are some ratings, like semiconductor temperature ratings, with labels that include "military", (e.g. manufacturers may name their products, from the narrowest to widest operating temperatures, with something like: commercial, industrial, automotive, military) and "military" would indicate a better product. On the other hand, when a product is designed and manufactured to sell to a military, it's going to be expensive, and that extra cost isn't going to quality or capability, it's going to compliance. You're more than likely paying extra to get something using some old and outdated technology, that includes paperwork to prove that it's only built using the approved old and outdated technology.