13 ms·

Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

474 points by HelloUsername 9mo ago

sergiotapia 9mo ago
Orion is their browser built with Webkit.
- phoronixrly 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - andunie 9mo ago
    Why is WebKit so bad?
  - aucisson_masque 9mo ago
    I found WebKit to be very power efficient and it shows website just as other browser. What’s the issue ?
    - tstrimple 9mo ago
      To some extent, Chrome* is the new IE. Not in that it's as shitty as IE ever was. But it's the dominant browser engine and folks are neglecting to test on other browser engines altogether as a result. They see "Works on Chrome" and move on to other things. I still encounter websites with rendering or performance issues on Firefox that Chrome based browsers don't have. * I meant Chrome not webkit.
      - wlesieutre 9mo ago
        You're thinking of Blink, which was forked from WebKit years ago. WebKit is the one maintained by Apple and used in Safari. Using WebKit makes this one of very few desktop browsers that aren't based on Blink (Chrome, Edge, Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, etc)
      - janfoeh 9mo ago
        That is Blink, not Webkit. Both have diverged significantly enough over the last fifteen-odd years to be counted as separate engines, even if one is a fork of the other. I primarily use Safari — same story here as with you and Firefox.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
giancarlostoro 9mo ago
Lowkey I wish Perplexity would do this for Comet, idk why but I use the heck out of their browser on my Mac. I dont always use the "browser agent" stuff (lol!), and I dont use it for EVERYTHING, but you spend so much time looking things up, and sometimes its nice to just be able to highlight text on a page and go "yo ELI5 this for me pls I feel dumb" and it just does it.
yellow_lead 9mo ago
Curious why they would use webkit, I checked their FAQ, but couldn't find any answer.
- ericyan 9mo ago
  It also runs on iOS/iPadOS and Webkit is the only allowed engine on these platforms (outside Japan).
  - jsheard 9mo ago
    You have to use the system Webkit though, right? So even though Orion is based on Webkit they are still constrained compared to other platforms, where they can patch the engine if necessary.
    - jlarocco 9mo ago
      That limitation is only on iOs, though.
      - saagarjha 9mo ago
        The same restrictions apply to iPadOS.
- the_other 9mo ago
  Guessing: it's not Blink, but it's easier to work with than Firefox's engine. I know people fork FF, but I vaguely recall hearing the engine itself was harder to separate and integrate into other systems. I'm sure someone closer to the issues can correct me.
- al_borland 9mo ago
  I’m in favor of browsers going with anything that isn’t Chromium, to slow Google’s complete ownership of the browser.
- f311a 9mo ago
  Battery life and performance on MacOS
troad 9mo ago
Wild that I can't use Kagi in Safari on iOS, where my search options are still locked down to three~four Apple-approved choices, of which at least one is just a multi-billion-dollar paid product placement. (Yes, I know about the extension that hijacks your searches to redirect them to Kagi, but how is that an acceptable state of affairs?)
- testfrequency 9mo ago
  Move to Japan?
- al_borland 9mo ago
  This upsets me as well. I’ve sent Apple feedback[0] about it, I suggest others do the same. I wanted to use Safari at work, but this proved too big of a barrier. I can’t use the App Store at work, so no extensions. I was more willing to give up Safari than Kagi. [0] https://www.apple.com/feedback/safari/ https://www.apple.com/feedback/safari/
  - IgorPartola 9mo ago
    Just submitted feedback as well. This is honestly what’s holding me back from buying a Kagi subscription at this point. Here is what I submitted: I’m requesting that iOS Safari allow users to set any search engine as their default, rather than limiting choices to a pre-approved list. Currently, Safari only offers Google, Bing, Yahoo, DuckDuckGo, and Ecosia, preventing users from choosing legitimate alternatives like Kagi. While workarounds exist, they’re cumbersome and don’t provide a seamless experience. Please consider allowing users to add custom search engines as default options, similar to macOS Safari. This would enhance user choice without compromising security. Thank you for considering this feedback.
    - trvr 9mo ago
      Don't let this hold you back. Use a mobile browser that lets you use Kagi; it's worth it.
hellcow 9mo ago
It seems weird to run a closed-source browser on an open-source operating system when so many open alternatives exist—I certainly wouldn’t do it, and I’m a Kagi customer. Does Kagi plan to open-source Orion on Linux?
- phoronixrly 9mo ago
  Even if it was open-source, I already have more than enough webkits on my Linux, I don't need another one.
  - microtonal 9mo ago
    Aren't most browsers Blinks? (Yes, I know that Blink was forked from WebKit and WebKit was forked from KHTML.)
    - mghackerlady 9mo ago
      Yeah. The only webkit browser on linux aside from orion is GNOMEs browser (which frankly kinda sucks, which is why I want orion open-sourced so that GNOME can take its work on webextentions when they become supported)
- BoredPositron 9mo ago
  Feels weird in what way?
- skylurk 9mo ago
  I also would like to try it, but won't touch it until it is open source.
- freedomben 9mo ago
  I hope freediver will shed some light on the open source plans, because that's a deal breaker for me too. I'm a long time paying customer and huge proponent (even evangelist) of Kagi, but a closed source browser is just too many steps backwards for me no matter who makes it. I get (though wouldn't necessarily agree with) keeping it closed while it's still in the works, but would like to know if the plan is to open source in the future or not.
jacek 9mo ago
I've been a Kagi user for months now and was really looking forward to testing this. However, I cannot find the download link. The page does not really contain any information on an actual release. EDIT: I found this in the docs: > The alpha version of Orion for Linux is currently only available to [Orion+ supporters](../orion-plus/orion-plus.md) and can be downloaded from the [Billing Dashboard](https://kagi.com/settings/billing https://kagi.com/settings/billing) under the Orion browser section. So I still can't test this. Only for Orion+ supporters.
- pbronez 9mo ago
  Yeah I don’t see it on https://orionbrowser.com https://orionbrowser.com anywhere. It’s probably a private alpha.
  - pbronez 9mo ago
    Found it https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpak https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpa...
    - diabllicseagull 9mo ago
      I gave it a try. it's super rough around the edges. I noticed a much higher cpu usage compared to firefox. nevertheless, it's super promising.
      - espadrine 9mo ago
        My bar for super-rough is Servo, which doesn't have password autofill… and doesn't render the Orion page right. Orion is less rough, but the color scheme doesn't work, and it doesn't have an omnibar (as in: type in the address bar, enter, and it shows search results).
jamesbelchamber 9mo ago
It's a shame this isn't open source, since Linux users are disproportionately likely to scratch their own itches. Regardless, great to see this come to Linux.
undeveloper 9mo ago
I love what the kagi team is doing, and being some of the first innovators maybe since the ladybird(?) browser, even if it's using the same base of webkit, not being a fork of chrome or firefox. I wish they'd bring it to android, but it doesn't look like they're interested.
- Zambyte 9mo ago
  It seems like their stance is more a matter of development resources rather than a deliberate decision. https://orionfeedback.org/d/2321-orion-for-windows-android-linux/25 https://orionfeedback.org/d/2321-orion-for-windows-android-l... It is interesting that they don't mention future Android support anywhere on the website, but it does seem like they are (or at least were) open to the idea someday.
- bikelang 9mo ago
  Kagi is a pretty small team and they’ve got a LOT on their plate. Orion started on macOS and was in development for 6 years before finally hitting their 1.0 release in November. Give it time - I’m sure they’d love to support just about every major OS and platform.
bdbdbdb 9mo ago
In case anyone is like me and has never heard of Orion, apparently it's a browser
macinjosh 9mo ago
kudos for not doing yet another chrome clone.
Fiveplus 9mo ago
This is a healthy thing to happen to the Linux browser ecosystem imho. We talk a lot about browser diversity, but on Linux and Windows, it is a lie. You have firefox (gecko) and fifty flavors of chromium. Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser, which I'll admit while is a noble effort, lags a bit in the stability and power-user features department. Big reason for that is that it lacks the commercial backing to keep up with the modern web standards rat race. Kagi bringing orion to Linux changes the calculus. It introduces a third commercially incentivized, consumer-grade engine to the platform. Even if you never use orion, you want this to succeed because it forces WebKitGTK upstream to get better, which benefits the entire open source ecosystem. The sticking point like always will be media playback (read: DRM/widevine). That is the graveyard where Linux browsers go to die. If Kagi can legally and technically solve the widevine integration on a non-standard Linux webkit build, they win. If not, it will be a secondary browser.
- JohnFen 9mo ago
  > The sticking point like always will be media playback (read: DRM/widevine). Probably true in general. But for me, that's not a sticking point at all. I don't care if a browser supports media playback or not. What I do care about is the ability to enable/disable embedded code execution (JS, at the very least) at a fairly granular level. Does Orion allow for that?
  - packetlost 9mo ago
    It's a major sticking point for most people though and a very large blocker for wider Linux desktop adoption.
    - __MatrixMan__ 9mo ago
      We like Linux adoption around these parts. But don't we like it because linux doesn't let companies mistreat it's users? If users are unwilling to opt out of that abuse then I think its OK that their migration to Linux remains mildly inconvenient.
andrewmutz 9mo ago
If I'm a linux user who uses firefox currently, what's the value prop for this browser? I already get privacy and extensions, is it just for testing my app on webkit?
- thisislife2 9mo ago
  You can already test a site on a webkit engine in Linux using Gnome Web (previously Epihany) or LuaKit ( https://luakit.github.io/ https://luakit.github.io/ ). But it is always good to have options, even if commercial ones. From that aspect Orion on Linux is good news.
- tigroferoce 9mo ago
  The main benefit is that Orion (contrary to Firefox) has a business model. The downside is that it's not open source. They have some explanation on why, but it might be a deal breaker for someone.
  - fenwick67 9mo ago
    Firefox has a business model, it is mostly "google search referrals"
- metabagel 9mo ago
  As I understand it, Orion was originally developed because Apple doesn't allow you to select Kagi as a search provider for Safari.
Phelinofist 9mo ago
Whats special about Orion? Why would I use it instead of FF or even Chromium?
- hagbard_c 9mo ago
  Nothing, really, other than it being closed-source, based around Webkit and to be sold/distributed under the Kagi moniker. If that combination scratches your itch this is for you, otherwise there are many alternatives.
- Macha 9mo ago
  I think Kagi at this stage have a better reputation than Mozilla, and Chromium is not seen as sufficiently independent from Chrome, and hence from Google’s anti-user decisions. That said, closed source is still a deal breaker for a browser for me, or I’d probably already be using Vivaldi.
- carlosjobim 9mo ago
  Don't worry about it, you're not even invited to use Orion.
  - freediver 9mo ago
    lol
- bikelang 9mo ago
  The built in ad blocker is phenomenal. Only Brave is as good on this front. It supports extensions from both FF and Chromium. It has a really neat integration with Kagi private search in private tabs. Kagi as a company has generally pretty good ethics and respects their users. That’s enough to make it compelling for me.
  - edsq 9mo ago
    > It has a really neat integration with Kagi private search in private tabs What's the integration you're referring to here? This was something I was interested in, but as far as I can tell if I enable Kagi Privacy Pass it's enabled browser-wide, not just in private tabs.
shevy-java 9mo ago
Hmm. So from Mac to Linux? Homebrew also initially had mac only support, later Linux. But it always felt as if Linux was a second-class citizen. Is that also the case for Orion?
bikelang 9mo ago
Orion has come an extremely long ways on iOS and macOS. I daily drove it for a couple months maybe a year and a half ago and it had a lot of little rough edges and was slightly broken on a number of websites. I’ve picked it up again as my daily driver as of the new year and haven’t had a single issue yet. It even blocks ads in YouTube now - only Brave did that previously. For me - Brave was the best browser product. It’s ad blocking is truly phenomenal and nearly every site “just works”. But I don’t love the ethics of Brave and certainly not its founder. So I am extremely excited to have Orion take over that niche of the browser space that I most care about.
- sylens 9mo ago
  I just switched to Orion on iOS to kick off the new year and it is MUCH better than where it was just a few months ago.
  - jvican 9mo ago
    I used it for close to a year and abandoned it because I kept running into issues with tabs getting randomly reloaded and extensions causing trouble. What would you say has changed over the past few months? I just felt like Kagi wasn't prioritizing Orion development enough, being busy with their main Kagi subscription and all.
- pzmarzly 9mo ago
  That's why I hope Brave will eventually launch Brave Origin, a buy-once premium build of Brave, despite the previous large backlash against it from Internet users (especially on Reddit). I like the idea of a paid but well-made, no-nonsense, no-bloat, no-ads, etc. browser, and I feel like Brave developers wanted their browser to be like that, but the pursuit of revenue stream led them to sidetracking into crypto, AI, VPNs, ads business, et al, and all the controversies over the years that came from that. In the meantime I'll give Orion a try as soon as they introduce cross-device sync.
  - bikelang 9mo ago
    It has cross device sync via iCloud. I don’t have it enabled tho - so can’t say how well it works
pbronez 9mo ago
Download link https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpak https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpa...
Bad_Initialism 9mo ago
[flagged]
- ancarda 9mo ago
  I think you're confused because this link is somewhat deep down: https://help.kagi.com/orion/misc/linux-status.html https://help.kagi.com/orion/misc/linux-status.html If you go up to https://help.kagi.com/orion/ https://help.kagi.com/orion/ it has this description: > Orion is a free, lightning-fast, privacy-focused, WebKit-based browser for Mac, iOS, and soon Linux that blocks ads and trackers by default.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- margalabargala 9mo ago
  The link submitted is a sub-page of a sub-page on the Kagi docs site. Every single page should not need the information you require just in case someone links someone to that particular page. You should blame OP for linking to the Linux status page. The actual top level page has everything you asked for. https://help.kagi.com/orion/ https://help.kagi.com/orion/
- jlarocco 9mo ago
  It's crazy that people on a tech forum get confused by a basic website. All of those questions can be easily answered with fewer clicks and far less typing than it took to whine about it.
- metabagel 9mo ago
  I get the frustration, since so many submissions link to a page which assumes prior knowledge, and without adding any explanatory comment. In this case, you could find out by clicking on "Why Orion?" to the left or the "Orion" link in the upper right.
thisislife2 9mo ago
Nice. But I stopped using Orion on macOS when they stopped offering complete offline installers. They taut they are a zero-telemetry browser, as proof that they are privacy conscious about user data, and that was a good feature and overture. But then when they create technical avenues to (possibly) bypass that (like using online installers that can do all kind of data collection) it becomes harder to trust them as it follows the tried-and-tested path of other companies that have claimed to care about user privacy, to increase their user-base, and then betrayed their customer base by harvesting their personal data.
- bastawhiz 9mo ago
  > online installers that can do all kind of data collection "Can" is doing a lot of work here. A browser's whole purpose is to be online, after all. If they were trying to collect information about you, they really don't need the installer to be the thing that does it. It would be an impressive reversal of their whole premise as a business if their browser's installer was the piece that was violating your privacy and not, you know, their whole service (that you have to be signed in to).
  - JohnFen 9mo ago
    > A browser's whole purpose is to be online, after all. Not its whole purpose. I use browsers offline fairly often. Offline installers (for any piece of software) are important to me because they allow me to keep a backup of the installer and won't restrict me when I don't have internet access. Keeping a backup is important because it lets me install older versions of the software when needed.
    - bastawhiz 9mo ago
      I respect your choice, but browsers are the one piece of software that you never, ever want to run an outdated version of. Websites really just don't stop working for new versions of browsers; browser/standards compatibility essentially only improves with time. The only thing you're getting with an old version is all of the security issues.
pooper 9mo ago
Congratulations on your release! Looks great. Runs great so far. I was able to log into HN just fine on Fedora. What are your thoughts on upgrading gnome 48 to 49 as a dependency?
solarkraft 9mo ago
I first used Orion a couple years back and it was already pretty good back then. Super cool to see it coming to Linux! I must +1 that no matter the platform (this criticism is not limited to Linux), the open source option is almost always my choice, especially for something as important as a browser. This is a big reason I don’t use Orion today, even though I have big issues with the other available browsers.
eduction 9mo ago
Has Orion gotten significantly more stable in the last year? The last time I tried it, on iOS, it crashed a lot.
- tigroferoce 9mo ago
  I use it as my main browser on Mac and iOS since some time. It's stable enough, but there are _some_ sites that will not work. They are very few, but it happens. When it happens at the end of a long process (maybe registering) it's particularly painful, but in general it works just fine.
- bikelang 9mo ago
  That was my experience like a year and a half ago too. I switched back with the new year (and also realizing it finally went 1.0 around Thanksgiving). It’s only been a few days but it’s been totally stable so far!
otter-in-a-suit 9mo ago
I love Kagi. I understand the niche this fills. I even understand not open sourcing it yet. But what I really miss is a self-hosted sync server. I don't want to use a browser without sync, but I also don't want to trust this data with any 3rd party other than myself. It's one of the main reasons I'm using Firefox, since that is the the only browser that even vaguely supports this - albeit not well.
gr4vityWall 9mo ago
I hope they upstream their implementation of Web Extensions to WebKit. I'm not interested in using a proprietary browser, and hope for a release under a free license at some point. But a free WebKit-based browser with Web Extensions could have interesting properties regarding battery life on mobile GNU workstations.
- mghackerlady 9mo ago
  If there's one thing they should release as free software it's this. I'd be disappointed if Orion never becomes free software, but it would hurt a little less if GNOMEs epiphany could benefit from the extension support
- saagarjha 9mo ago
  I don’t think WebKit would be particularly interested in this.
mistercheph 9mo ago
No source code? That's pretty disappointing, and makes it DOA for most Linux users.
- bigstrat2003 9mo ago
  Most Linux users couldn't care less whether or not their software is open source. They are drawn to Linux for practical benefits, not ideological ones.
  - bigyabai 9mo ago
    Most Linux users don't care, full-stop. It's the distro maintainers that decide which browser is default, and a proprietary browser has no shot at replacing Firefox in this regard.
wpm 9mo ago
Shame it's GTK but oh well, still a welcome sight.
turblety 9mo ago
A closed source wrapper around a web view? I have to advise that no one install, never mind use, this closed source, proprietary blob. Especially not for anything confidential like banking, health, etc.
bicepjai 9mo ago
Previously, my comments on Kagi were about one thing: counting queries felt like a chore, so I stayed away. I did give it a try mainly for the privacy angle. After that, I switched to Perplexity and was happy for a year, until the familiar VC backed pattern showed up: ads, even for paying users. This year I upgraded to Kagi Ultimate, and honestly, it feels like they’ve found the sweet spot. I hesitated at $25 at first, but the search experience plus the assistant (and the ability to pick the models I want) along with privacy won me over. I’m also familiar with Orion since I use it as the app for kagi experience for AI chat and search. It could use an update for better assistant experience. Keep up the good work, Kagi.
- jwrallie 9mo ago
  Interestingly I have not noticed ads on Perplexity yet, but it could be due to a number of reasons including using ublock and not being located in the US. Kagi seems more appealing to me in the way they do business, but I got a free year and lower prices for academia through Perplexity, so it does not make sense to switch.
brockers 9mo ago
There is some strange irony in this. Apple initially used the khtml code-base to build Safari but it quickly became impossible to back-port the changes from the Safari branch of khtml back into Konqueror. Now, 20 years later, someone has made an open source version of Safari.
- yunwal 9mo ago
  Who?
  - bigyabai 9mo ago
    Maybe not Kagi, but GNOME Web (Epiphany) technically qualifies: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany
TiredOfLife 9mo ago
Just use Yandex browser and skip the middleman
richardanaya 9mo ago
It's rough, but I like it. Definitely an alpha, but wonderful to see them thrive.
anttiharju 9mo ago
Oh just in time. Trying to switch from macOS to Linux soon.
cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
I think this is great. True native Linux-first power user browsers are nearly an entirely unserved niche. We've had them on macOS in various forms over the years (with OmniWeb being the original), but for a long time the only browsers built to integrate well with Linux desktops were minimal and light on features (like the WebKit version of GNOME Web/Epiphany). It probably matters less to Linux users who do the minimal tiling WM thing, but as someone more drawn to traditional floating DEs it's always bothered me how alien the browsers one might actually want to use feel running in a GTK or Qt DE. Themes can help reduce the gap, but it never disappears — that last 10-20% always remains as an unavoidable side effect of how the big browsers are built, with it being particularly pronounced with Firefox and derivatives. Of course a GTK based browser like Orion isn't going to feel the best under a Qt desktop like KDE, but GTK themed to match Plasma is a good deal closer than the bespoke UI found in e.g. Firefox or Chrome.
- bigyabai 9mo ago
  Firefox fills this niche fine, and it's actually Open Source to boot. The community doesn't really have a need for a "Linux-first" browser that treats Linux like a second-class, alpha-quality citizen.
  - cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
    I can't agree. Firefox is great, but I think its UI drags it down in various ways. It being built the way it is was a boon back when extensions were capable of radically changing the browser's UI, but now it simply puts a (unfortunately low) hard cap on how excellent its UI can be. Funny enough, Epiphany used to be a more power user oriented browser, and it used to be powered by none other than Gecko. Unfortunately, Mozilla killed embedding in Gecko and that (along with related projects like Camino and K-Meleon) came to a screeching halt and Gecko became hard coupled with Mozilla's UI decisions.
mr_machine 9mo ago
I like Kagi and pay for it. I've been impatiently waiting for Orion to come to Linux. But I won't run closed source. This is a huge disappointment.
nevon 9mo ago
Been a Kagi subscriber for a while, and am supportive of a more diverse browser ecosystem. However, I won't be using this browser as long as it is closed source. Honestly, the arguments made by the founder (I believe he's the founder anyway. I may be wrong) in the related feedback thread kind of soured me a little bit on Kagi. The arguments were essentially: 1. It's a lot of work to maintain an open source project accepting community contributions. Absolutely true, but that's not what's being asked for. Providing a tarball under an open source license doesn't add any significant work. 2. No one has asked for the Kagi backends to be open sourced, so why is the browser different? Obviously because I run the browser on my machine. Your backend runs on your machine. 3. We need to protect our IP. Then release it under a copyleft license. Or if you absolutely must, release your proprietary bit under a non-open source license. 4. You don't need the source because we send 0 telemetry, which you can verify using a network proxy. That's hardly the only thing to be worried about with a binary blob. Even if you kept the code completely closed source, by just releasing a tarball with the source under a proprietary license, I can build my own binary from source and eliminate this threat.
- bisby 9mo ago
  > Then release it under a copyleft license. Or if you absolutely must, release your proprietary bit under a non-open source license An old mentor once said to me that a contract is just the start of a conversation. If you sign a contract, the other party violates it, and your business goes under... you may be able to get some compensation through courts, but also your business is gone. And getting that compensation and proving that the contract was violated and how much you are entitled to costs time and money. Releasing something at all, even under a restrictive license, means nothing if you have no intention (or capability) of enforcing that license. Look at how often companies take GPL code, modify it, and then never publish their modifications... and then people have to sue to get things resolved. So "We aren't ready to commit the legal resources to fighting and defending the licenses" makes a LOT of sense. IP protection is not just a matter of signing a piece of paper saying people can't do a thing, you have to actually prevent them from doing the thing.
- tombert 9mo ago
  > 3. We need to protect our IP. Then release it under a copyleft license. No affiliation with Kagi, but I think you're dreaming if this actually would make a difference. How many times has GPL'd software successfully been argued in court? Maybe four or five? Considering how many millions of software packages exist and how hard it would be to prove enough to bring a lawsuit/discovery request, I would be extremely surprised if there aren't thousands of GPL violations out in the wild that never go to court. I remember the source code to Spongebob Squarepants Supersponge violated the GPL [1], and that wasn't discovered for decades. I am mostly ok with FOSS, and I don't love the idea of using a fully proprietary browser either, and I am probably not going to use Orion on Linux, but I don't think it's inherently wrong for them to want to keep any secret sauce close to their chest. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20129285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20129285
slwvx 9mo ago
I'd like Psylo [1] to be available on other platforms like Linux and MacOS. Psylo puts each tab behind a VPN and give them their own cookie storage space. It feels like a dramatically more private tool than Orion. I tried Orion in Dec 2025 and it crashed more frequently than I could handle. It and/or VPNs I was using worked poorly with websites that I want to keep a page open on for days at a time. [1] https://mysk.blog/2025/06/17/introducing-psylo/ https://mysk.blog/2025/06/17/introducing-psylo/
j-pb 9mo ago
Orion is the only modern piece of software that has ever made my mac less stable as a system. I don't know what they do, but it caused weird graphics glitches and kernel panics simply from running in the background.
imcritic 9mo ago
A poorly made page. I don't know what an Orion is. I didn't learn it after skinning through the page. Now I don't even care.
- prh8 9mo ago
  That's because it's a docs page. Product page here https://orionbrowser.com https://orionbrowser.com
neilv 9mo ago
Is the Kagi Orion browser going for the "we hate loading and looking at ads, and maybe this is better than Chrome with uBlock Origin Lite" demographic? (They don't seem to be going for the "serious, clueful privacy and Internet freedom" demographic, or they wouldn't be using Discord.)
snvzz 9mo ago
There is no legitimate reason for a web browser not to be open source. I am not touching this with a 15m stick.
Ritewut 9mo ago
I use Zen and recommend people give it a shot. It's really good.
aorth 9mo ago
Love to see it. I've been a paying Kagi member for three years (!), and for now I trust them more than Google, but I echo the other users' concerns that to switch to this long term I'd want it to be open source.
vmt-man 9mo ago
I tried the macos and ios versions of Orion yesterda and it was a great experience. I've used Brave from the beginning but it has become bloated with web3-related stuff and has outdated UX (imo) on mobile. Orion desktop is inspired by Safari, Arc in a best way. Ad-blocking and chrome/firefox extensions from the beginning, convenient vertical tabs, mature level of ui customization. Glad it see on Linux too.
eviks 9mo ago
> Customize Everything Your Way Limitless customization that goes far beyond themes. Configure every detail to work exactly as you need. That would be awesome!, but would be nice to have a list of things comprising "everything", Vivaldi is the best browser in this regard, and still they have plenty of gaps.
kingkandu 9mo ago
Loved Orion but had to switch to Zen because they had an awful Picture-in-picture implementation and no mouse gesture support, both features I use heavily Regardless, anything that works toward dethroning the 2 worst spyware distros in the world i.e. windows and osx I must support heavily
paprikanotfound 9mo ago
This is great news. I just reinstalled orion yesterday. It was stuck crashing at every launch until I manually deleted the application files on macOS. That being said, I really like orion and kagi, but I agree with others that they should open-source orion.
AuthAuth 9mo ago
I'm not a macOS user so I've got little experience with Safari. Is it actually a good browser? All I hear is how bad it is.

474 points by HelloUsername 9mo ago

sergiotapia 9mo ago

Orion is their browser built with Webkit.

phoronixrly 9mo ago
[flagged]
- andunie 9mo ago
  Why is WebKit so bad?
- aucisson_masque 9mo ago
  I found WebKit to be very power efficient and it shows website just as other browser. What’s the issue ?
  - tstrimple 9mo ago
    To some extent, Chrome* is the new IE. Not in that it's as shitty as IE ever was. But it's the dominant browser engine and folks are neglecting to test on other browser engines altogether as a result. They see "Works on Chrome" and move on to other things. I still encounter websites with rendering or performance issues on Firefox that Chrome based browsers don't have. * I meant Chrome not webkit.
    - wlesieutre 9mo ago
      You're thinking of Blink, which was forked from WebKit years ago. WebKit is the one maintained by Apple and used in Safari. Using WebKit makes this one of very few desktop browsers that aren't based on Blink (Chrome, Edge, Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, etc)
    - janfoeh 9mo ago
      That is Blink, not Webkit. Both have diverged significantly enough over the last fifteen-odd years to be counted as separate engines, even if one is a fork of the other. I primarily use Safari — same story here as with you and Firefox.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

giancarlostoro 9mo ago

Lowkey I wish Perplexity would do this for Comet, idk why but I use the heck out of their browser on my Mac. I dont always use the "browser agent" stuff (lol!), and I dont use it for EVERYTHING, but you spend so much time looking things up, and sometimes its nice to just be able to highlight text on a page and go "yo ELI5 this for me pls I feel dumb" and it just does it.

yellow_lead 9mo ago

Curious why they would use webkit, I checked their FAQ, but couldn't find any answer.

ericyan 9mo ago
It also runs on iOS/iPadOS and Webkit is the only allowed engine on these platforms (outside Japan).
- jsheard 9mo ago
  You have to use the system Webkit though, right? So even though Orion is based on Webkit they are still constrained compared to other platforms, where they can patch the engine if necessary.
  - jlarocco 9mo ago
    That limitation is only on iOs, though.
    - saagarjha 9mo ago
      The same restrictions apply to iPadOS.
the_other 9mo ago
Guessing: it's not Blink, but it's easier to work with than Firefox's engine. I know people fork FF, but I vaguely recall hearing the engine itself was harder to separate and integrate into other systems. I'm sure someone closer to the issues can correct me.
al_borland 9mo ago
I’m in favor of browsers going with anything that isn’t Chromium, to slow Google’s complete ownership of the browser.
f311a 9mo ago
Battery life and performance on MacOS

troad 9mo ago

Wild that I can't use Kagi in Safari on iOS, where my search options are still locked down to three~four Apple-approved choices, of which at least one is just a multi-billion-dollar paid product placement. (Yes, I know about the extension that hijacks your searches to redirect them to Kagi, but how is that an acceptable state of affairs?)

testfrequency 9mo ago
Move to Japan?
al_borland 9mo ago
This upsets me as well. I’ve sent Apple feedback[0] about it, I suggest others do the same. I wanted to use Safari at work, but this proved too big of a barrier. I can’t use the App Store at work, so no extensions. I was more willing to give up Safari than Kagi. [0] https://www.apple.com/feedback/safari/ https://www.apple.com/feedback/safari/
- IgorPartola 9mo ago
  Just submitted feedback as well. This is honestly what’s holding me back from buying a Kagi subscription at this point. Here is what I submitted: I’m requesting that iOS Safari allow users to set any search engine as their default, rather than limiting choices to a pre-approved list. Currently, Safari only offers Google, Bing, Yahoo, DuckDuckGo, and Ecosia, preventing users from choosing legitimate alternatives like Kagi. While workarounds exist, they’re cumbersome and don’t provide a seamless experience. Please consider allowing users to add custom search engines as default options, similar to macOS Safari. This would enhance user choice without compromising security. Thank you for considering this feedback.
  - trvr 9mo ago
    Don't let this hold you back. Use a mobile browser that lets you use Kagi; it's worth it.

hellcow 9mo ago

It seems weird to run a closed-source browser on an open-source operating system when so many open alternatives exist—I certainly wouldn’t do it, and I’m a Kagi customer. Does Kagi plan to open-source Orion on Linux?

phoronixrly 9mo ago
Even if it was open-source, I already have more than enough webkits on my Linux, I don't need another one.
- microtonal 9mo ago
  Aren't most browsers Blinks? (Yes, I know that Blink was forked from WebKit and WebKit was forked from KHTML.)
  - mghackerlady 9mo ago
    Yeah. The only webkit browser on linux aside from orion is GNOMEs browser (which frankly kinda sucks, which is why I want orion open-sourced so that GNOME can take its work on webextentions when they become supported)
BoredPositron 9mo ago
Feels weird in what way?
skylurk 9mo ago
I also would like to try it, but won't touch it until it is open source.
freedomben 9mo ago
I hope freediver will shed some light on the open source plans, because that's a deal breaker for me too. I'm a long time paying customer and huge proponent (even evangelist) of Kagi, but a closed source browser is just too many steps backwards for me no matter who makes it. I get (though wouldn't necessarily agree with) keeping it closed while it's still in the works, but would like to know if the plan is to open source in the future or not.

jacek 9mo ago

I've been a Kagi user for months now and was really looking forward to testing this. However, I cannot find the download link. The page does not really contain any information on an actual release. EDIT: I found this in the docs: > The alpha version of Orion for Linux is currently only available to [Orion+ supporters](../orion-plus/orion-plus.md) and can be downloaded from the [Billing Dashboard](https://kagi.com/settings/billing https://kagi.com/settings/billing) under the Orion browser section. So I still can't test this. Only for Orion+ supporters.

pbronez 9mo ago
Yeah I don’t see it on https://orionbrowser.com https://orionbrowser.com anywhere. It’s probably a private alpha.
- pbronez 9mo ago
  Found it https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpak https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpa...
  - diabllicseagull 9mo ago
    I gave it a try. it's super rough around the edges. I noticed a much higher cpu usage compared to firefox. nevertheless, it's super promising.
    - espadrine 9mo ago
      My bar for super-rough is Servo, which doesn't have password autofill… and doesn't render the Orion page right. Orion is less rough, but the color scheme doesn't work, and it doesn't have an omnibar (as in: type in the address bar, enter, and it shows search results).

jamesbelchamber 9mo ago

It's a shame this isn't open source, since Linux users are disproportionately likely to scratch their own itches. Regardless, great to see this come to Linux.

undeveloper 9mo ago

I love what the kagi team is doing, and being some of the first innovators maybe since the ladybird(?) browser, even if it's using the same base of webkit, not being a fork of chrome or firefox. I wish they'd bring it to android, but it doesn't look like they're interested.

Zambyte 9mo ago
It seems like their stance is more a matter of development resources rather than a deliberate decision. https://orionfeedback.org/d/2321-orion-for-windows-android-linux/25 https://orionfeedback.org/d/2321-orion-for-windows-android-l... It is interesting that they don't mention future Android support anywhere on the website, but it does seem like they are (or at least were) open to the idea someday.
bikelang 9mo ago
Kagi is a pretty small team and they’ve got a LOT on their plate. Orion started on macOS and was in development for 6 years before finally hitting their 1.0 release in November. Give it time - I’m sure they’d love to support just about every major OS and platform.

bdbdbdb 9mo ago

In case anyone is like me and has never heard of Orion, apparently it's a browser

macinjosh 9mo ago

kudos for not doing yet another chrome clone.

Fiveplus 9mo ago

This is a healthy thing to happen to the Linux browser ecosystem imho. We talk a lot about browser diversity, but on Linux and Windows, it is a lie. You have firefox (gecko) and fifty flavors of chromium. Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser, which I'll admit while is a noble effort, lags a bit in the stability and power-user features department. Big reason for that is that it lacks the commercial backing to keep up with the modern web standards rat race. Kagi bringing orion to Linux changes the calculus. It introduces a third commercially incentivized, consumer-grade engine to the platform. Even if you never use orion, you want this to succeed because it forces WebKitGTK upstream to get better, which benefits the entire open source ecosystem. The sticking point like always will be media playback (read: DRM/widevine). That is the graveyard where Linux browsers go to die. If Kagi can legally and technically solve the widevine integration on a non-standard Linux webkit build, they win. If not, it will be a secondary browser.

JohnFen 9mo ago
> The sticking point like always will be media playback (read: DRM/widevine). Probably true in general. But for me, that's not a sticking point at all. I don't care if a browser supports media playback or not. What I do care about is the ability to enable/disable embedded code execution (JS, at the very least) at a fairly granular level. Does Orion allow for that?
- packetlost 9mo ago
  It's a major sticking point for most people though and a very large blocker for wider Linux desktop adoption.
  - __MatrixMan__ 9mo ago
    We like Linux adoption around these parts. But don't we like it because linux doesn't let companies mistreat it's users? If users are unwilling to opt out of that abuse then I think its OK that their migration to Linux remains mildly inconvenient.

andrewmutz 9mo ago

If I'm a linux user who uses firefox currently, what's the value prop for this browser? I already get privacy and extensions, is it just for testing my app on webkit?

thisislife2 9mo ago
You can already test a site on a webkit engine in Linux using Gnome Web (previously Epihany) or LuaKit ( https://luakit.github.io/ https://luakit.github.io/ ). But it is always good to have options, even if commercial ones. From that aspect Orion on Linux is good news.
tigroferoce 9mo ago
The main benefit is that Orion (contrary to Firefox) has a business model. The downside is that it's not open source. They have some explanation on why, but it might be a deal breaker for someone.
- fenwick67 9mo ago
  Firefox has a business model, it is mostly "google search referrals"
metabagel 9mo ago
As I understand it, Orion was originally developed because Apple doesn't allow you to select Kagi as a search provider for Safari.

Phelinofist 9mo ago

Whats special about Orion? Why would I use it instead of FF or even Chromium?

hagbard_c 9mo ago
Nothing, really, other than it being closed-source, based around Webkit and to be sold/distributed under the Kagi moniker. If that combination scratches your itch this is for you, otherwise there are many alternatives.
Macha 9mo ago
I think Kagi at this stage have a better reputation than Mozilla, and Chromium is not seen as sufficiently independent from Chrome, and hence from Google’s anti-user decisions. That said, closed source is still a deal breaker for a browser for me, or I’d probably already be using Vivaldi.
carlosjobim 9mo ago
Don't worry about it, you're not even invited to use Orion.
- freediver 9mo ago
  lol
bikelang 9mo ago
The built in ad blocker is phenomenal. Only Brave is as good on this front. It supports extensions from both FF and Chromium. It has a really neat integration with Kagi private search in private tabs. Kagi as a company has generally pretty good ethics and respects their users. That’s enough to make it compelling for me.
- edsq 9mo ago
  > It has a really neat integration with Kagi private search in private tabs What's the integration you're referring to here? This was something I was interested in, but as far as I can tell if I enable Kagi Privacy Pass it's enabled browser-wide, not just in private tabs.

shevy-java 9mo ago

Hmm. So from Mac to Linux? Homebrew also initially had mac only support, later Linux. But it always felt as if Linux was a second-class citizen. Is that also the case for Orion?

bikelang 9mo ago

Orion has come an extremely long ways on iOS and macOS. I daily drove it for a couple months maybe a year and a half ago and it had a lot of little rough edges and was slightly broken on a number of websites. I’ve picked it up again as my daily driver as of the new year and haven’t had a single issue yet. It even blocks ads in YouTube now - only Brave did that previously. For me - Brave was the best browser product. It’s ad blocking is truly phenomenal and nearly every site “just works”. But I don’t love the ethics of Brave and certainly not its founder. So I am extremely excited to have Orion take over that niche of the browser space that I most care about.

sylens 9mo ago
I just switched to Orion on iOS to kick off the new year and it is MUCH better than where it was just a few months ago.
- jvican 9mo ago
  I used it for close to a year and abandoned it because I kept running into issues with tabs getting randomly reloaded and extensions causing trouble. What would you say has changed over the past few months? I just felt like Kagi wasn't prioritizing Orion development enough, being busy with their main Kagi subscription and all.
pzmarzly 9mo ago
That's why I hope Brave will eventually launch Brave Origin, a buy-once premium build of Brave, despite the previous large backlash against it from Internet users (especially on Reddit). I like the idea of a paid but well-made, no-nonsense, no-bloat, no-ads, etc. browser, and I feel like Brave developers wanted their browser to be like that, but the pursuit of revenue stream led them to sidetracking into crypto, AI, VPNs, ads business, et al, and all the controversies over the years that came from that. In the meantime I'll give Orion a try as soon as they introduce cross-device sync.
- bikelang 9mo ago
  It has cross device sync via iCloud. I don’t have it enabled tho - so can’t say how well it works

pbronez 9mo ago

Download link https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpak https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpa...

Bad_Initialism 9mo ago

[flagged]

ancarda 9mo ago
I think you're confused because this link is somewhat deep down: https://help.kagi.com/orion/misc/linux-status.html https://help.kagi.com/orion/misc/linux-status.html If you go up to https://help.kagi.com/orion/ https://help.kagi.com/orion/ it has this description: > Orion is a free, lightning-fast, privacy-focused, WebKit-based browser for Mac, iOS, and soon Linux that blocks ads and trackers by default.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
margalabargala 9mo ago
The link submitted is a sub-page of a sub-page on the Kagi docs site. Every single page should not need the information you require just in case someone links someone to that particular page. You should blame OP for linking to the Linux status page. The actual top level page has everything you asked for. https://help.kagi.com/orion/ https://help.kagi.com/orion/
jlarocco 9mo ago
It's crazy that people on a tech forum get confused by a basic website. All of those questions can be easily answered with fewer clicks and far less typing than it took to whine about it.
metabagel 9mo ago
I get the frustration, since so many submissions link to a page which assumes prior knowledge, and without adding any explanatory comment. In this case, you could find out by clicking on "Why Orion?" to the left or the "Orion" link in the upper right.

thisislife2 9mo ago

Nice. But I stopped using Orion on macOS when they stopped offering complete offline installers. They taut they are a zero-telemetry browser, as proof that they are privacy conscious about user data, and that was a good feature and overture. But then when they create technical avenues to (possibly) bypass that (like using online installers that can do all kind of data collection) it becomes harder to trust them as it follows the tried-and-tested path of other companies that have claimed to care about user privacy, to increase their user-base, and then betrayed their customer base by harvesting their personal data.

bastawhiz 9mo ago
> online installers that can do all kind of data collection "Can" is doing a lot of work here. A browser's whole purpose is to be online, after all. If they were trying to collect information about you, they really don't need the installer to be the thing that does it. It would be an impressive reversal of their whole premise as a business if their browser's installer was the piece that was violating your privacy and not, you know, their whole service (that you have to be signed in to).
- JohnFen 9mo ago
  > A browser's whole purpose is to be online, after all. Not its whole purpose. I use browsers offline fairly often. Offline installers (for any piece of software) are important to me because they allow me to keep a backup of the installer and won't restrict me when I don't have internet access. Keeping a backup is important because it lets me install older versions of the software when needed.
  - bastawhiz 9mo ago
    I respect your choice, but browsers are the one piece of software that you never, ever want to run an outdated version of. Websites really just don't stop working for new versions of browsers; browser/standards compatibility essentially only improves with time. The only thing you're getting with an old version is all of the security issues.

pooper 9mo ago

Congratulations on your release! Looks great. Runs great so far. I was able to log into HN just fine on Fedora. What are your thoughts on upgrading gnome 48 to 49 as a dependency?

solarkraft 9mo ago

I first used Orion a couple years back and it was already pretty good back then. Super cool to see it coming to Linux! I must +1 that no matter the platform (this criticism is not limited to Linux), the open source option is almost always my choice, especially for something as important as a browser. This is a big reason I don’t use Orion today, even though I have big issues with the other available browsers.

eduction 9mo ago

Has Orion gotten significantly more stable in the last year? The last time I tried it, on iOS, it crashed a lot.

tigroferoce 9mo ago
I use it as my main browser on Mac and iOS since some time. It's stable enough, but there are _some_ sites that will not work. They are very few, but it happens. When it happens at the end of a long process (maybe registering) it's particularly painful, but in general it works just fine.
bikelang 9mo ago
That was my experience like a year and a half ago too. I switched back with the new year (and also realizing it finally went 1.0 around Thanksgiving). It’s only been a few days but it’s been totally stable so far!

otter-in-a-suit 9mo ago

I love Kagi. I understand the niche this fills. I even understand not open sourcing it yet. But what I really miss is a self-hosted sync server. I don't want to use a browser without sync, but I also don't want to trust this data with any 3rd party other than myself. It's one of the main reasons I'm using Firefox, since that is the the only browser that even vaguely supports this - albeit not well.

gr4vityWall 9mo ago

I hope they upstream their implementation of Web Extensions to WebKit. I'm not interested in using a proprietary browser, and hope for a release under a free license at some point. But a free WebKit-based browser with Web Extensions could have interesting properties regarding battery life on mobile GNU workstations.

mghackerlady 9mo ago
If there's one thing they should release as free software it's this. I'd be disappointed if Orion never becomes free software, but it would hurt a little less if GNOMEs epiphany could benefit from the extension support
saagarjha 9mo ago
I don’t think WebKit would be particularly interested in this.

mistercheph 9mo ago

No source code? That's pretty disappointing, and makes it DOA for most Linux users.

bigstrat2003 9mo ago
Most Linux users couldn't care less whether or not their software is open source. They are drawn to Linux for practical benefits, not ideological ones.
- bigyabai 9mo ago
  Most Linux users don't care, full-stop. It's the distro maintainers that decide which browser is default, and a proprietary browser has no shot at replacing Firefox in this regard.

wpm 9mo ago

Shame it's GTK but oh well, still a welcome sight.

turblety 9mo ago

A closed source wrapper around a web view? I have to advise that no one install, never mind use, this closed source, proprietary blob. Especially not for anything confidential like banking, health, etc.

bicepjai 9mo ago

Previously, my comments on Kagi were about one thing: counting queries felt like a chore, so I stayed away. I did give it a try mainly for the privacy angle. After that, I switched to Perplexity and was happy for a year, until the familiar VC backed pattern showed up: ads, even for paying users. This year I upgraded to Kagi Ultimate, and honestly, it feels like they’ve found the sweet spot. I hesitated at $25 at first, but the search experience plus the assistant (and the ability to pick the models I want) along with privacy won me over. I’m also familiar with Orion since I use it as the app for kagi experience for AI chat and search. It could use an update for better assistant experience. Keep up the good work, Kagi.

jwrallie 9mo ago
Interestingly I have not noticed ads on Perplexity yet, but it could be due to a number of reasons including using ublock and not being located in the US. Kagi seems more appealing to me in the way they do business, but I got a free year and lower prices for academia through Perplexity, so it does not make sense to switch.

brockers 9mo ago

There is some strange irony in this. Apple initially used the khtml code-base to build Safari but it quickly became impossible to back-port the changes from the Safari branch of khtml back into Konqueror. Now, 20 years later, someone has made an open source version of Safari.

yunwal 9mo ago
Who?
- bigyabai 9mo ago
  Maybe not Kagi, but GNOME Web (Epiphany) technically qualifies: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany

TiredOfLife 9mo ago

Just use Yandex browser and skip the middleman

richardanaya 9mo ago

It's rough, but I like it. Definitely an alpha, but wonderful to see them thrive.

anttiharju 9mo ago

Oh just in time. Trying to switch from macOS to Linux soon.

cosmic_cheese 9mo ago

I think this is great. True native Linux-first power user browsers are nearly an entirely unserved niche. We've had them on macOS in various forms over the years (with OmniWeb being the original), but for a long time the only browsers built to integrate well with Linux desktops were minimal and light on features (like the WebKit version of GNOME Web/Epiphany). It probably matters less to Linux users who do the minimal tiling WM thing, but as someone more drawn to traditional floating DEs it's always bothered me how alien the browsers one might actually want to use feel running in a GTK or Qt DE. Themes can help reduce the gap, but it never disappears — that last 10-20% always remains as an unavoidable side effect of how the big browsers are built, with it being particularly pronounced with Firefox and derivatives. Of course a GTK based browser like Orion isn't going to feel the best under a Qt desktop like KDE, but GTK themed to match Plasma is a good deal closer than the bespoke UI found in e.g. Firefox or Chrome.

bigyabai 9mo ago
Firefox fills this niche fine, and it's actually Open Source to boot. The community doesn't really have a need for a "Linux-first" browser that treats Linux like a second-class, alpha-quality citizen.
- cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
  I can't agree. Firefox is great, but I think its UI drags it down in various ways. It being built the way it is was a boon back when extensions were capable of radically changing the browser's UI, but now it simply puts a (unfortunately low) hard cap on how excellent its UI can be. Funny enough, Epiphany used to be a more power user oriented browser, and it used to be powered by none other than Gecko. Unfortunately, Mozilla killed embedding in Gecko and that (along with related projects like Camino and K-Meleon) came to a screeching halt and Gecko became hard coupled with Mozilla's UI decisions.

mr_machine 9mo ago

I like Kagi and pay for it. I've been impatiently waiting for Orion to come to Linux. But I won't run closed source. This is a huge disappointment.

nevon 9mo ago

Been a Kagi subscriber for a while, and am supportive of a more diverse browser ecosystem. However, I won't be using this browser as long as it is closed source. Honestly, the arguments made by the founder (I believe he's the founder anyway. I may be wrong) in the related feedback thread kind of soured me a little bit on Kagi. The arguments were essentially: 1. It's a lot of work to maintain an open source project accepting community contributions. Absolutely true, but that's not what's being asked for. Providing a tarball under an open source license doesn't add any significant work. 2. No one has asked for the Kagi backends to be open sourced, so why is the browser different? Obviously because I run the browser on my machine. Your backend runs on your machine. 3. We need to protect our IP. Then release it under a copyleft license. Or if you absolutely must, release your proprietary bit under a non-open source license. 4. You don't need the source because we send 0 telemetry, which you can verify using a network proxy. That's hardly the only thing to be worried about with a binary blob. Even if you kept the code completely closed source, by just releasing a tarball with the source under a proprietary license, I can build my own binary from source and eliminate this threat.

bisby 9mo ago
> Then release it under a copyleft license. Or if you absolutely must, release your proprietary bit under a non-open source license An old mentor once said to me that a contract is just the start of a conversation. If you sign a contract, the other party violates it, and your business goes under... you may be able to get some compensation through courts, but also your business is gone. And getting that compensation and proving that the contract was violated and how much you are entitled to costs time and money. Releasing something at all, even under a restrictive license, means nothing if you have no intention (or capability) of enforcing that license. Look at how often companies take GPL code, modify it, and then never publish their modifications... and then people have to sue to get things resolved. So "We aren't ready to commit the legal resources to fighting and defending the licenses" makes a LOT of sense. IP protection is not just a matter of signing a piece of paper saying people can't do a thing, you have to actually prevent them from doing the thing.
tombert 9mo ago
> 3. We need to protect our IP. Then release it under a copyleft license. No affiliation with Kagi, but I think you're dreaming if this actually would make a difference. How many times has GPL'd software successfully been argued in court? Maybe four or five? Considering how many millions of software packages exist and how hard it would be to prove enough to bring a lawsuit/discovery request, I would be extremely surprised if there aren't thousands of GPL violations out in the wild that never go to court. I remember the source code to Spongebob Squarepants Supersponge violated the GPL [1], and that wasn't discovered for decades. I am mostly ok with FOSS, and I don't love the idea of using a fully proprietary browser either, and I am probably not going to use Orion on Linux, but I don't think it's inherently wrong for them to want to keep any secret sauce close to their chest. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20129285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20129285

slwvx 9mo ago

I'd like Psylo [1] to be available on other platforms like Linux and MacOS. Psylo puts each tab behind a VPN and give them their own cookie storage space. It feels like a dramatically more private tool than Orion. I tried Orion in Dec 2025 and it crashed more frequently than I could handle. It and/or VPNs I was using worked poorly with websites that I want to keep a page open on for days at a time. [1] https://mysk.blog/2025/06/17/introducing-psylo/ https://mysk.blog/2025/06/17/introducing-psylo/

j-pb 9mo ago

Orion is the only modern piece of software that has ever made my mac less stable as a system. I don't know what they do, but it caused weird graphics glitches and kernel panics simply from running in the background.

imcritic 9mo ago

A poorly made page. I don't know what an Orion is. I didn't learn it after skinning through the page. Now I don't even care.

prh8 9mo ago
That's because it's a docs page. Product page here https://orionbrowser.com https://orionbrowser.com

neilv 9mo ago

Is the Kagi Orion browser going for the "we hate loading and looking at ads, and maybe this is better than Chrome with uBlock Origin Lite" demographic? (They don't seem to be going for the "serious, clueful privacy and Internet freedom" demographic, or they wouldn't be using Discord.)

snvzz 9mo ago

There is no legitimate reason for a web browser not to be open source. I am not touching this with a 15m stick.

Ritewut 9mo ago

I use Zen and recommend people give it a shot. It's really good.

aorth 9mo ago

Love to see it. I've been a paying Kagi member for three years (!), and for now I trust them more than Google, but I echo the other users' concerns that to switch to this long term I'd want it to be open source.

vmt-man 9mo ago

I tried the macos and ios versions of Orion yesterda and it was a great experience. I've used Brave from the beginning but it has become bloated with web3-related stuff and has outdated UX (imo) on mobile. Orion desktop is inspired by Safari, Arc in a best way. Ad-blocking and chrome/firefox extensions from the beginning, convenient vertical tabs, mature level of ui customization. Glad it see on Linux too.

eviks 9mo ago

> Customize Everything Your Way Limitless customization that goes far beyond themes. Configure every detail to work exactly as you need. That would be awesome!, but would be nice to have a list of things comprising "everything", Vivaldi is the best browser in this regard, and still they have plenty of gaps.

kingkandu 9mo ago

Loved Orion but had to switch to Zen because they had an awful Picture-in-picture implementation and no mouse gesture support, both features I use heavily Regardless, anything that works toward dethroning the 2 worst spyware distros in the world i.e. windows and osx I must support heavily

paprikanotfound 9mo ago

This is great news. I just reinstalled orion yesterday. It was stuck crashing at every launch until I manually deleted the application files on macOS. That being said, I really like orion and kagi, but I agree with others that they should open-source orion.

AuthAuth 9mo ago

I'm not a macOS user so I've got little experience with Safari. Is it actually a good browser? All I hear is how bad it is.