3 ms·

When someone is long dead, what is the point in one-sided accusations about their character?

by rootusrootus 9mo ago

baal80spam 9mo ago
Some people just want to see the world burn, destroy culture etc.
- Supermancho 9mo ago
  Some culture touchpoints are based on misinformation. It's usually moral to point out historic inaccuracies and to portray humans as they are.
- clipsy 9mo ago
  > destroy culture If the truth destroys your culture, it says more about your culture than it does about the people destroying it.
johnnyanmac 9mo ago
depends on their legacy. If a a policy maker died but still has bills and laws in flight, it's an easy way to kill those. As well as any proteges that were running for office.
amelius 9mo ago
Except it compensates for the one sided praising of the guy.
- wilg 9mo ago
  I would not say Steve Jobs received only praise during his life or after his death.
  - KaiserPro 9mo ago
    > not say Steve Jobs received only praise Jobs was idolised during his later life. (reality distortion field a-la the register) lots of founders and CEOs adopted his mannerisms, and cosplayed his stories, because they thought that was what made him _good_ Obviously there were dissenters, either people who were personally shat on by him, or didn't buy the "Jobs is better than jesus" stuff. But, they made a fucking movie about him, thats how much he was idolised.
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  Really? I have heard plenty of "Jobs was an asshole" comments, every time his name comes up. The most consistent assessment seems to be "he was talented, lucky, and a real asshole to work for."
wolvoleo 9mo ago
To make sure history doesn't only remember the good things like their accomplishments. He was often really mean in person, that's pretty clear from his biography (and I also heard from some people who met him). Seeing him remembered as a tech saint is weird then. I'm glad I never worked for Apple while he was there. Though I have unfortunately worked for someone with very similar traits. Even though he is dead and can no longer improve himself, people will use him as a role model and idolize all the bad stuff too.
- jjtheblunt 9mo ago
  I did work for Apple while he was there, and he was entirely decent. I came to believe that there was a bratty entitled personality from his 20s that gave rise to most the jerk stories people reference, and that he wised up after being ousted (probably for being that jerk). He was essentially exiled for the better part of a decade.
  - onlypassingthru 9mo ago
    The jerk was there from the beginning. A friend's mom was temp-hired by two young guys, both named Steve, to help them set up their first company office. She liked one of the Steves but declined the offer to join their new company as the first office manager because the other Steve was an a-hole.
    - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
      that fits the early Steve vs post firing learned humility of Steve that was there after NeXT merged [ edit : typo ]
  - IAmBroom 9mo ago
    You worked for a multi-thousand-employee company, and therefore can certify the moral fiber behind closed doors of the CEO?
    - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
subjectsigma 9mo ago
The article made a lot of sense in 2018. If I was Lisa I would want my story to be heard. And so in turn I empathize and want to hear her story. I’m not sure why it is being reposted in 2026, though.
austin-cheney 9mo ago
My go to example for this is Saint Cyril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria He is a canonized saint of Catholicism and revered as a virtuous defender of Christianity. More evidence based history instead indicates he was a narcissist primarily motivated to elevate himself politically in Alexandria which included wide spread murder and the destruction of the greatest intellectual institution the world had ever seen.
anthonypasq 9mo ago
if Steve Jobs wasnt famous would you have anything negative to say about a person writing a memoir describing their cruel dad?
rendx 9mo ago
For me, it is important to know and reflect on these stories so we can collectively heal and learn from them, regarding child abuse, narcissism, and especially (what is also mentioned in the article) enabling such abuse. This is why I posted it. If we bury these stories, and always only talk about it when people are long dead or not at all, we as communities will not evolve out of those patterns. A culture that "honors the dead" by not talking about the bad stuff they've done is catering to its abusers. Today, we should talk about Trump, Musk, etc, also in the light of how they treat their children. And what we can and should do to protect those that cannot protect themselves. We all have responsibility - the ability to respond. If we look away from the stories, we will also look away when something happens near us. And it should encourage us to grow in how we treat other people (especially children) around us. Yes, this can bring up difficult feelings about our own acts, and our own childhood experiences. And it should.
IAmBroom 9mo ago
Jobs' daughter has made assertions about Jobs' behavior. You are literally questioning why we are bothering to try to learn historical facts.

When someone is long dead, what is the point in one-sided accusations about their character?

baal80spam 9mo ago

Some people just want to see the world burn, destroy culture etc.

Supermancho 9mo ago
Some culture touchpoints are based on misinformation. It's usually moral to point out historic inaccuracies and to portray humans as they are.
clipsy 9mo ago
> destroy culture If the truth destroys your culture, it says more about your culture than it does about the people destroying it.

johnnyanmac 9mo ago

depends on their legacy. If a a policy maker died but still has bills and laws in flight, it's an easy way to kill those. As well as any proteges that were running for office.

amelius 9mo ago

Except it compensates for the one sided praising of the guy.

wilg 9mo ago
I would not say Steve Jobs received only praise during his life or after his death.
- KaiserPro 9mo ago
  > not say Steve Jobs received only praise Jobs was idolised during his later life. (reality distortion field a-la the register) lots of founders and CEOs adopted his mannerisms, and cosplayed his stories, because they thought that was what made him _good_ Obviously there were dissenters, either people who were personally shat on by him, or didn't buy the "Jobs is better than jesus" stuff. But, they made a fucking movie about him, thats how much he was idolised.
rootusrootus 9mo ago
Really? I have heard plenty of "Jobs was an asshole" comments, every time his name comes up. The most consistent assessment seems to be "he was talented, lucky, and a real asshole to work for."

wolvoleo 9mo ago

To make sure history doesn't only remember the good things like their accomplishments. He was often really mean in person, that's pretty clear from his biography (and I also heard from some people who met him). Seeing him remembered as a tech saint is weird then. I'm glad I never worked for Apple while he was there. Though I have unfortunately worked for someone with very similar traits. Even though he is dead and can no longer improve himself, people will use him as a role model and idolize all the bad stuff too.

jjtheblunt 9mo ago
I did work for Apple while he was there, and he was entirely decent. I came to believe that there was a bratty entitled personality from his 20s that gave rise to most the jerk stories people reference, and that he wised up after being ousted (probably for being that jerk). He was essentially exiled for the better part of a decade.
- onlypassingthru 9mo ago
  The jerk was there from the beginning. A friend's mom was temp-hired by two young guys, both named Steve, to help them set up their first company office. She liked one of the Steves but declined the offer to join their new company as the first office manager because the other Steve was an a-hole.
  - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
    that fits the early Steve vs post firing learned humility of Steve that was there after NeXT merged [ edit : typo ]
- IAmBroom 9mo ago
  You worked for a multi-thousand-employee company, and therefore can certify the moral fiber behind closed doors of the CEO?
  - jjtheblunt 9mo ago

subjectsigma 9mo ago

The article made a lot of sense in 2018. If I was Lisa I would want my story to be heard. And so in turn I empathize and want to hear her story. I’m not sure why it is being reposted in 2026, though.

austin-cheney 9mo ago

My go to example for this is Saint Cyril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria He is a canonized saint of Catholicism and revered as a virtuous defender of Christianity. More evidence based history instead indicates he was a narcissist primarily motivated to elevate himself politically in Alexandria which included wide spread murder and the destruction of the greatest intellectual institution the world had ever seen.

anthonypasq 9mo ago

if Steve Jobs wasnt famous would you have anything negative to say about a person writing a memoir describing their cruel dad?

rendx 9mo ago

For me, it is important to know and reflect on these stories so we can collectively heal and learn from them, regarding child abuse, narcissism, and especially (what is also mentioned in the article) enabling such abuse. This is why I posted it. If we bury these stories, and always only talk about it when people are long dead or not at all, we as communities will not evolve out of those patterns. A culture that "honors the dead" by not talking about the bad stuff they've done is catering to its abusers. Today, we should talk about Trump, Musk, etc, also in the light of how they treat their children. And what we can and should do to protect those that cannot protect themselves. We all have responsibility - the ability to respond. If we look away from the stories, we will also look away when something happens near us. And it should encourage us to grow in how we treat other people (especially children) around us. Yes, this can bring up difficult feelings about our own acts, and our own childhood experiences. And it should.

IAmBroom 9mo ago

Jobs' daughter has made assertions about Jobs' behavior. You are literally questioning why we are bothering to try to learn historical facts.