4 ms·

Let’s be honest, that was a crazy operation. I wonder whether they really secured all chances of success, or just winged it with chances of not depositing the l

Let’s be honest, that was a crazy operation. I wonder whether they really secured all chances of success, or just winged it with chances of not depositing the leader, and him being able to summon his diplomatic relations into 50 countries declaring war to the USA. While on their way out, if the USA could set everything back to IPv6, that would be nice.

hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
> While on their way out, if the USA could set everything back to IPv6, that would be nice. You actually think the US would leave things better than they found them?
- bakies 9mo ago
  Only when it's oil infrastructure.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
    They never ‘leave’ that.
Terr_ 9mo ago
The outcome is less-crazy if one views it as assisting a palace-coup, partnering with a bunch of Venezuelan government and military insiders already seeking to depose Maduro, able to subtly clear the path and provide intel.
- Terr_ 9mo ago
  P.S.: In that scenario, it's quite possible for both groups of conspirators to benefit from denying it and saber-rattling: * The (remaining) Venezuelan government gets to point to Big Evil America to unify (or crack-down-upon) an unhappy public, and they avoid being personally tarred as unpatriotic. * Trump et al. get to "wag the dog" as distraction from crimes and mismanagement back home.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 9mo ago
  I personally think it is both. I think CBS article disclosed that CIA had someone in the inner circle. That, however, does not really take away from how well coordinated it actually was. That does not mean it was a good idea to do it. Just because I can run around naked does not mean I should..
- kjkjadksj 9mo ago
  If they did that then they did a bad job considering Maduros vp assumed power while also saying Maduro remains the actual president.
literalAardvark 9mo ago
> him being able to summon his diplomatic relations into 50 countries declaring war to the USA. As if. Dictators only do things that benefit themselves, and deciding to attack the US is suicide and/or world ending.
- hdgvhicv 9mo ago
  Took a long time to catch up with Bin Laden after he attacked the US.
  - kachapopopow 9mo ago
    we don't really have a way to tell if it was even real, it would actually be a rather trivial operation for the government during those times and the entire thing could have just been overplayed and/or involved collaboration from all sides. none of those documents exist since it was probably never documented to begin with so we will never know I guess.
  - kulahan 9mo ago
    Let’s be realistic. Not easy to find one man in a haystack. Guerrilla warfare has always been insanely overpowered as a defense tactic anyways, as are terrorist attacks. The US can realistically only be challenged militarily by Europe or Asia, assuming a unified continent, and the US is on the offensive. If it’s defensive, the US might put up a good fight against the rest of the planet.
    - hdgvhicv 9mo ago
      So if you wanted to attack the US you wouldn’t do a conventional “red dawn” style attack. You’d attack like bin laden. And then keep quiet. Normally I’d say the most effective way to attack a western country would be to target kids in school playgrounds, but the US seems that regularly anyway so it would be lost in noise. Perhaps target Amazon delivery centres with drones will strike fear into the true heart of America.
      - 9mo ago
victorbjorklund 9mo ago
No one would lift a finger for him. Russia just watched. The Chinese too. They may be allies in words but in the end each dictator just care about themselves. Just like how Trump wouldn’t help any ally unless he got something out of it.
- brendoelfrendo 9mo ago
  Of course they didn't. While I can't imagine Russia is exactly happy that it lost an ally in the Western Hemisphere, this kind of action is very much aligned with Putin's multi-polar worldview where the great powers leave each other to play empire in their respective spheres of influence. It helps justify things like invading Ukraine. I can imagine some in the Chinese military are over the moon right now, taking notes on how to force regime change in Taiwan.
  - mrguyorama 9mo ago
    More importantly, Putin didn't really have an option to help. They sent over like, maybe a couple Anti Air systems? But they really couldn't spare that many in the first place! It's not like Russia can sustain serious power off the coast of the US. The most he can do is complain. What's Russia going to do, sanction the US?
- nonethewiser 9mo ago
  Power wins in anarchy. International relations are anarchy. There is no actual international law.
  - KPGv2 9mo ago
    > There is no actual international law. There is, of course, both private and public international law. You don't know what you're talking about.
    - Dansvidania 9mo ago
      I think it was meant in a "international law is a farce" sort of rhetoric

hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago

> While on their way out, if the USA could set everything back to IPv6, that would be nice. You actually think the US would leave things better than they found them?

bakies 9mo ago
Only when it's oil infrastructure.
- hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago
  They never ‘leave’ that.

Terr_ 9mo ago

The outcome is less-crazy if one views it as assisting a palace-coup, partnering with a bunch of Venezuelan government and military insiders already seeking to depose Maduro, able to subtly clear the path and provide intel.

Terr_ 9mo ago
P.S.: In that scenario, it's quite possible for both groups of conspirators to benefit from denying it and saber-rattling: * The (remaining) Venezuelan government gets to point to Big Evil America to unify (or crack-down-upon) an unhappy public, and they avoid being personally tarred as unpatriotic. * Trump et al. get to "wag the dog" as distraction from crimes and mismanagement back home.
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 9mo ago
I personally think it is both. I think CBS article disclosed that CIA had someone in the inner circle. That, however, does not really take away from how well coordinated it actually was. That does not mean it was a good idea to do it. Just because I can run around naked does not mean I should..
kjkjadksj 9mo ago
If they did that then they did a bad job considering Maduros vp assumed power while also saying Maduro remains the actual president.

literalAardvark 9mo ago

> him being able to summon his diplomatic relations into 50 countries declaring war to the USA. As if. Dictators only do things that benefit themselves, and deciding to attack the US is suicide and/or world ending.

hdgvhicv 9mo ago
Took a long time to catch up with Bin Laden after he attacked the US.
- kachapopopow 9mo ago
  we don't really have a way to tell if it was even real, it would actually be a rather trivial operation for the government during those times and the entire thing could have just been overplayed and/or involved collaboration from all sides. none of those documents exist since it was probably never documented to begin with so we will never know I guess.
- kulahan 9mo ago
  Let’s be realistic. Not easy to find one man in a haystack. Guerrilla warfare has always been insanely overpowered as a defense tactic anyways, as are terrorist attacks. The US can realistically only be challenged militarily by Europe or Asia, assuming a unified continent, and the US is on the offensive. If it’s defensive, the US might put up a good fight against the rest of the planet.
  - hdgvhicv 9mo ago
    So if you wanted to attack the US you wouldn’t do a conventional “red dawn” style attack. You’d attack like bin laden. And then keep quiet. Normally I’d say the most effective way to attack a western country would be to target kids in school playgrounds, but the US seems that regularly anyway so it would be lost in noise. Perhaps target Amazon delivery centres with drones will strike fear into the true heart of America.
    - 9mo ago

victorbjorklund 9mo ago

No one would lift a finger for him. Russia just watched. The Chinese too. They may be allies in words but in the end each dictator just care about themselves. Just like how Trump wouldn’t help any ally unless he got something out of it.

brendoelfrendo 9mo ago
Of course they didn't. While I can't imagine Russia is exactly happy that it lost an ally in the Western Hemisphere, this kind of action is very much aligned with Putin's multi-polar worldview where the great powers leave each other to play empire in their respective spheres of influence. It helps justify things like invading Ukraine. I can imagine some in the Chinese military are over the moon right now, taking notes on how to force regime change in Taiwan.
- mrguyorama 9mo ago
  More importantly, Putin didn't really have an option to help. They sent over like, maybe a couple Anti Air systems? But they really couldn't spare that many in the first place! It's not like Russia can sustain serious power off the coast of the US. The most he can do is complain. What's Russia going to do, sanction the US?
nonethewiser 9mo ago
Power wins in anarchy. International relations are anarchy. There is no actual international law.
- KPGv2 9mo ago
  > There is no actual international law. There is, of course, both private and public international law. You don't know what you're talking about.
  - Dansvidania 9mo ago
    I think it was meant in a "international law is a farce" sort of rhetoric