8 ms·

It's pretty obvious what's happening here. The response needs to be forceful: seize and auction off the ships. There needs to be sufficient deterrent to actual

It's pretty obvious what's happening here. The response needs to be forceful: seize and auction off the ships. There needs to be sufficient deterrent to actually stop this from happening.

Braxton1980 10mo ago
[flagged]
- TulliusCicero 10mo ago
  Are these ships actually owned by the Russian state? I thought it was more Russia paying private operators to do some sabotage alongside legitimate business. In which case, ships being seized would absolutely be a huge deterrent to whoever owns or insures the ships. But yes, imprisoning the crew (especially the captain) is also a good idea.
- zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
  What do you mean by eliminate?
  - aaomidi 10mo ago
    You know exactly what they mean
    - zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
      Executing people for cutting cables is extreme and I'm sure illegal in any country worth living in
      - aaomidi 10mo ago
        I agree. However media has removed morality and ethics from people when it comes to this war.
      - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
        Hold them as POWs. Executing prisoners is barbaric.
- mylifeandtimes 10mo ago
  Mmm. You are assuming people have a choice about crewing on what you call a pos ship which you say is owned/controlled by russia. Many international ships are crewed by what is essentially slave labor. Too many google links to share them all, but try this to start: https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/thats-slavery-seafarers-stranded-and-forgotten-sea https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/thats-slavery-seafarers-s...
coffinbirth 10mo ago
[flagged]
- idiotsecant 10mo ago
  Wow nobody even blamed Russia yet and you're jumping to their defense already. That is some top notch customer service.
  - coffinbirth 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - chollida1 10mo ago
      What good would a naval blockade of Russia do when they get the vast majority of their goods by land? EDIT looking at your post history its very clear you have no intention of discussing this in good faith.
      - roenxi 10mo ago
        Probably to make sure it stays that way. Logistics by ship generally has a big advantage over logistics by land. There is a rough pattern over the last century or so of the big navel empires (UK, US, Japan) having a big military advantage. In the case of the UK and US their strategic policy has a big component that involves restricting their opponents access to resources water (eg, Germany around the world wars, China in the modern era or the way the US controls the sea-based routes out of Saudi Arabia and the land routes tend to be militarily unstable).
      - coffinbirth 10mo ago
        Preventing oil exports and increase insurance premiums for Russia's export economy, because Western sanctions clearly are unsuccessful in destroying the Russian economy. My post history shows that I do support Russia's self defense against U.S./NATO threats. In my opinion Ukraine entering NATO is indeed an existential threat to Russia, because since (at least) the collapse of the UDSSR the U.S. and it's vassals openly communicated and pursued the goal of regime changing Russia (+ Belarus, Georgia).
2OEH8eoCRo0 10mo ago
It's geopolitical. They don't care if you seize the ships because they don't care about a return on investment.
- raverbashing 10mo ago
  Good, another reason to seize them
- KumaBear 10mo ago
  Even better life in prison for all on board. (This is extreme but I bet you that they'd think twice)
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 10mo ago
    That's not extreme. They destroyed a piece of expensive critical infrastructure. Prison and seizure should be the bare minimum. I just mean it's not enough to prevent it in the future.
  - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
    > life in prison for all on board Honestly, give any Russian or shadow-vessel crew a bounty if they surrender. Turn Moscow’s fleet into a cheap source of intelligence and scrap.
mullingitover 10mo ago
> There needs to be sufficient deterrent to actually stop this from happening One ship might be considered a reasonable pawn to sacrifice. I'd go further: require that any ships passing through the strait to be bonded at some eye-watering amount like 10x the price of the ship plus the repair costs of the cable. Make it so if the cable is cut, you make a profit.
- WA 10mo ago
  Only works if you find someone to pay. I listened to a lengthy (German) podcast about international maritime law. To sum it up: you can’t do that much, because you won’t find the responsible person/company/state.
  - bena 10mo ago
    The Outlaw Sea, https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780865477223/theoutlawsea/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780865477223/theoutlawsea/ , is a book about all of the ways international water is essentially lawless.
  - jopsen 10mo ago
    Most of the water isn't internal.. getting in and out of the baltic sea goes past Sweden/Denmark. But we probably have promised not to blockade ships in some conventions. And little Denmark (or Sweden) do not benefit from setting a precedence that conventions can be broken. Getting payback is easy though: support Ukraine.
    - actionfromafar 10mo ago
      There is no such convention as far as I can tell.
      - nradov 10mo ago
        Most nations have either signed the UNCLOS to otherwise agreed to follow most of those rules. This includes the right of innocent passage through territorial waters. Of course if a vessel engages in hostile acts then they're no longer entitled to exercise that right.
belter 10mo ago
Russia has already carried out chemical attacks on UK soil, used radioactive poisoning in London, sabotaged rail infrastructure in Poland, and launched cyberattacks against German air traffic control.[1] The Associated Press has documented 59 Russian hybrid operations across Europe. A systematic campaign of intimidation, sabotage, and violence: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-europe-hybrid-campaign-d61887dd3ec6151adf354c5bd3e6273e https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-europe-hybrid-... Russia supplied the Buk missile system that shot down MH17, killing 298 civilians, most of them Europeans. Putin eliminates political opponents, like Alexei Navalny, who died in custody days before a possible release. European leaders may be passive and slow, but what is making the situation truly dangerous, is the dictator-jealousy fueled encouragement and indulgence of the current U.S. administration, and all its sycophants, which got to the point of publicly applauding a dictator on U.S. soil. That behavior legitimizes aggression, emboldens Moscow, and directly undermines European security, and is making thinks really, really, sketchy right now. Germany accuses Russia of air traffic control cyber-attack: [1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgrrnylzzyo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgrrnylzzyo
- MaxPock 10mo ago
  Europe believes that Russia is doing all sorts of bad things and there's also the belief that Moscow plans to invade the EU . Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes on this big bad country that hates the western way of life ?
  - eptcyka 10mo ago
    I don’t believe the leadership sees Russia as an existential threat in Brussels. Baltics and Poland see it differently. A pre-emptive strike would be expensive and immediately retcon into making Putin be the good guy - he’s long said NATO is the aggressor. Best to make invading EU to be too expensive to be worth it. I think the bigger risk currently that Europe faces is the low and mid level corruption where Russian agents extend their tendrils into government structures in EU.
    - 10mo ago
deepsun 10mo ago
Russia started convoying some of those vessels, especially with more advanced operation bases than cable cuts [1]. They won't be able to seize those without opening fire. https://ioplus.nl/en/posts/how-seven-students-unmasked-russias-drone-motherships https://ioplus.nl/en/posts/how-seven-students-unmasked-russi...
- alecthomas 10mo ago
  That is...disturbing.
- Sabinus 10mo ago
  That's fine. Let Russia escort ships that then break cables. It'll make it more obvious it's deliberate, and provide a reason for blockade and confrontation.
  - vasco 10mo ago
    There's literal war ongoing already, no extra excuse is needed, only political will.
    - rtkwe 10mo ago
      There's a reason countries like to fight proxy wars over real wars, they cost money not (their own) lives.
  - miohtama 10mo ago
    And then NATO will obliterate Russia's Baltic fleet before the sun rises.
    - dmitrygr 10mo ago
      A hot NATO-Russia engagement ends with a few sunrises at 3am all over Europe, USA, and Russia. Not a thing to joke about or cheer.
      - 10mo ago
NedF 10mo ago
[dead]
JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> pretty obvious what's happening here Good start. Then turn off Russia’s cable that runs via Finland [1] and make vague threats about (a) seizing shadow-fleet vessels in the Baltics and (b) how vulnerable Russia’s cable to Kaliningrad [2] would be to careless anchors. All the while: start setting up non-cable based back-up bandwidth for if Russia severs these cables in advance of invasion. [1] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/bcs-north---phase-2 https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/bcs-north-... [2] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/kingisepp-kaliningrad-system-baltika https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/kingisepp-...
jojobas 10mo ago
They can use 30-year old handysize rust buckets that can be cheaper than some cable repairs. Jailing crews in comfy Scandinavian prisons can hardly be a strong deterrent either. Russia is all-in on this confrontation, Europe is much wealthier but won't commit anywhere near the effort or expense.
- padjo 10mo ago
  Russia has an immense capacity to endure suffering and sacrifice lives. It’s basically their secret weapon.
  - edm0nd 10mo ago
    yup. RU will literally wait decades and then send their lil KGB/GRU agents all around the world to assassinate you, chop you up, or poison you. they play the long game and never forget.
- nradov 10mo ago
  Many of the shadow fleet crew members aren't even Russians. Typically only the master and some officers are privy to the real mission. The other crew members are just random seamen hired from the usual poor countries so jailing them would be pointless.
  - jojobas 10mo ago
    Typically only the master and mates are liable for breaches like that? It's not that a boatswain, a C/E decides when to drop an anchor.
rasz 10mo ago
Nothing burger incoming. Previously Finland let go of Eagle S despite evidence of cutting cables https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/02/world/europe/finland-tanker-sabotage-cables-baltic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/02/world/europe/finland-tank...
mmooss 10mo ago
Escalation is a classic trap to fall into: The other side wants escalation of tension, otherwise they wouldn't do this. And they get to choose when and where and, to a degree, the means by which it happens - you can be sure it's a time and place and means that benefits them. The fundamental of international relations in conflict is to deter without escalation, and to act in the time, place, and manner of your choosing. You'll see leaders cite that specifically: 'We have this problem; we will respond in the time, place, and in the way we think best.'
- yoavm 10mo ago
  This sounds very nice but it's unclear to me what it is that you're suggesting. Who said the place isn't the Baltic sea, the time is now, and the way is to escalate? In other words, what's a better place/time/way according to you?
  - mmooss 10mo ago
    > it's unclear to me what it is that you're suggesting. That's fair. I lack the expertise and information to know the options and details. But what I said in the GP is international relations 101 - or maybe the first day of grad school.
MangoToupe 10mo ago
There's essentially nothing you can do to deter this sort of behavior short of starting a war
- ekaryotic 10mo ago
  could you cut russias undersea cables in a tit for tat?
  - bdangubic 10mo ago
    there is internet in russia? :)
- TulliusCicero 10mo ago
  That's exactly the appeasement mentality that lets Russia get away with everything. "We don't want to start a war doncha know, so whenever Russia attacks us we'll just take it on the chin and not fight back too hard". It appears the world has forgotten the lessons of the Sudetenland.
  - MangoToupe 10mo ago
    I guess I don't subscribe to the same hysteria about russia you do. I'm far more worried about how my own country behaves, i'm extremely cynical about european leadership including this exact attitude you profess, and I don't trust the people who run this place. All of these things I fear far more than i fear russia Look if russia wants to conquer the world, let them. They can't make things worse than the indolent ivy-league rot that has destroyed western culture. If people braying about the threat of the east want to be taken seriously, they need to make a much more concerted effort to convince us that the western model makes sense and we're not just working our asses off to suck off rich retards
    - Sabinus 10mo ago
      >Look if russia wants to conquer the world, let them. They can't make things worse than the indolent ivy-league rot that has destroyed western culture. Do you have any experience living under Russian rule? Have you tried any political participation while doing so?
vzaliva 10mo ago
I suspect the price of a ship compared to economic damages caused by the cut cable is negligible. This is what russia calls "assymetric war". The response should be more economic sanctions.
- colechristensen 10mo ago
  Economic sanctions won't prevent the FSB from paying off ship captains to do these things. Seizing ships and imprisoning captains might provide some amount of deterrent. Clearly only way economic sanctions will have a behavioral impact on Russia is if the effects are so bad it triggers revolution which has its own dangers. Direct consequences for the people in the sphere of these actions is more prudent.
- TulliusCicero 10mo ago
  There's generally enough cables that cutting one doesn't completely shut down some area of web traffic, it just gets slower, so it's hard to say. But yeah, if Russia keeps it up, just blockade the Baltic Sea for ships heading to Russian ports.
DonHopkins 10mo ago
The crew are probably living much better and safer lives in Finnish jail than they would out of jail in Russia. Speaking of the joy of living in Russia, check out the hilarious story of racist right wing Finnish Flat Earther anti-immigrant anti-refugee pro-Russian criminal asshole Ano Turtiainen, now living as a refugee in Russia and threatening to fight against fellow Finns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen Ano Turtiainen is a former Finnish powerlifter turned far-right politician who managed to embarrass himself and others at every step: He was banned for two years in 1998 for androgenic drug use -- perfect start to a "morally upright" career. As an MP with the batshit crazy racist right-wing Finns Party, he posted a mocking tweet about George Floyd's murder ("Pink Floyd"), which was widely condemned as even too racist for the Finns Party, which got him expelled. He set up his own splinter faction and then a tiny party, Power Belongs to the People (VKK), which became known for praising Russia and opposing sanctions and Finnish NATO membership, utterly at odds with mainstream Finnish views. Turtiainen even refused to fire an assistant who posted racist content and had a parliamentary visitor do a Nazi salute (which he photographed himself!). Instead of behaving like a responsible adult during the pandemic, he mocked public health measures, called them "neo-communism", refused masks, and threatened violence over mask mandates. Meanwhile his own company manufactured masks: the ultimate hypocrisy. Turtiainen failed to explain how he used over €30,000 in parliamentary group funds -- so the Finnish Parliament is trying to collect it back through debt enforcement. Not only that: He's a Flat Earther, doesn't believe in space existing, and was convinced NASA interfered in the last election he was involved in so that he only got 7 votes. Now the Ultimate Irony: the Anti-Immigrant Asshole Becomes a Hypocritical Refugee. After losing his seat in the 2023 election (with only ~632 votes), Turtiainen moved to Russia, the country he celebrated, defended even during its invasion of Ukraine, and praised as a cultural "brother". Russia granted him refugee status (yes, refugee status), despite his previous anti-immigrant posturing -- and he proudly accepts it. In videos he’s now said he might fight for Russia -- even against Finns -- in the war in Ukraine. That’s right: the man who slammed refugees and immigrants is now a political asylum seeker in Russia, flirting with joining Russian troops and fighting his own countrymen. Turtiainen's political life is a one-man case study in right-wing hypocrisy, racism, ignorance, self-harm, and irony: The guy who mocked others' suffering ends up dependent on another country’s goodwill -- the same country he championed in Finnish politics. Former Finns Party MP granted refugee status in Russia: The pro-Russian ex-lawmaker has claimed that he would be "ready to go to the front against the Finns" if necessary: https://yle.fi/a/74-20201812 https://yle.fi/a/74-20201812 Former Finnish MP and his wife granted refugee status in Russia: Turtiainen founded and leads the political party "Power belongs to the people": https://fakti.bg/en/world/1024214-former-finnish-mp-and-his-wife-granted-refugee-status-in-russia https://fakti.bg/en/world/1024214-former-finnish-mp-and-his-... Ano Turtiainen: the PS doesn’t love me, I love the PS – watch me now eat my words: https://migranttales.net/ano-turtiainen-the-ps-doesnt-love-me-i-love-the-ps-watch-me-now-eat-my-words/ https://migranttales.net/ano-turtiainen-the-ps-doesnt-love-m... Ano Turtiainen Flat Earth Anti-NASA Views: https://murha.info/rikosfoorumi/viewtopic.php?p=1866262#:~:text=The%20Flat%20Earth%20Society%20recruited%20members%20by,government%20and%20all%20its%20agencies%2C%20particularly%20NASA. https://murha.info/rikosfoorumi/viewtopic.php?p=1866262#:~:t...
super256 10mo ago
Europe has always been known for being governed by the rule of law. If we now start breaking laws and rights, especially regarding property/ownership, this will strongly backfire in the future. This can quickly become a slippery slope towards Willkürsjustiz. It is exactly the same as with the Russian assets held in Belgium at Clearstream. Selling them is a no-no.
- thyristan 10mo ago
  There is ample precendent for impounding the assets of hostile nations. The Soviets did it to Germany in WW2, so they cannot really claim that they are opposed to that practice. The only reason why this seizure of russian money in Belgium might be a bad idea is reciprocity. Russia would of course then try to seize European assets in Russia. And regarding ships, prize law is still internationally accepted and in effect. Ukraine can offer prize letters to privateers or foreign navies, allowing the seizure of Russian ships. Or they can seize ships themselves. When those ships are then in a Ukrainian or allied harbor, a Ukrainian admirality court then assigns ownership of the vessel and all goods to the ones who brought it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_(law)
  - rasz 10mo ago
    >Russia would of course then try to seize European assets in Russia. They already did. all the planes https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/16/business/russia-aircraft-seizure https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/16/business/russia-aircraft-... carlsberg https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/business/carlsberg-russia-business-stolen https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/business/carlsberg-russia-bus... danone https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66218999 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66218999 fortum https://www.fortum.com/en/media/2025/08/fortums-statement-related-confiscation-fortums-russian-subsidiary-chelyabenergoremont https://www.fortum.com/en/media/2025/08/fortums-statement-re... the list goes on and on

It's pretty obvious what's happening here. The response needs to be forceful: seize and auction off the ships. There needs to be sufficient deterrent to actually stop this from happening.

Braxton1980 10mo ago

[flagged]

TulliusCicero 10mo ago
Are these ships actually owned by the Russian state? I thought it was more Russia paying private operators to do some sabotage alongside legitimate business. In which case, ships being seized would absolutely be a huge deterrent to whoever owns or insures the ships. But yes, imprisoning the crew (especially the captain) is also a good idea.
zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
What do you mean by eliminate?
- aaomidi 10mo ago
  You know exactly what they mean
  - zoklet-enjoyer 10mo ago
    Executing people for cutting cables is extreme and I'm sure illegal in any country worth living in
    - aaomidi 10mo ago
      I agree. However media has removed morality and ethics from people when it comes to this war.
    - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
      Hold them as POWs. Executing prisoners is barbaric.
mylifeandtimes 10mo ago
Mmm. You are assuming people have a choice about crewing on what you call a pos ship which you say is owned/controlled by russia. Many international ships are crewed by what is essentially slave labor. Too many google links to share them all, but try this to start: https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/thats-slavery-seafarers-stranded-and-forgotten-sea https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/thats-slavery-seafarers-s...

coffinbirth 10mo ago

[flagged]

idiotsecant 10mo ago
Wow nobody even blamed Russia yet and you're jumping to their defense already. That is some top notch customer service.
- coffinbirth 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - chollida1 10mo ago
    What good would a naval blockade of Russia do when they get the vast majority of their goods by land? EDIT looking at your post history its very clear you have no intention of discussing this in good faith.
    - roenxi 10mo ago
      Probably to make sure it stays that way. Logistics by ship generally has a big advantage over logistics by land. There is a rough pattern over the last century or so of the big navel empires (UK, US, Japan) having a big military advantage. In the case of the UK and US their strategic policy has a big component that involves restricting their opponents access to resources water (eg, Germany around the world wars, China in the modern era or the way the US controls the sea-based routes out of Saudi Arabia and the land routes tend to be militarily unstable).
    - coffinbirth 10mo ago
      Preventing oil exports and increase insurance premiums for Russia's export economy, because Western sanctions clearly are unsuccessful in destroying the Russian economy. My post history shows that I do support Russia's self defense against U.S./NATO threats. In my opinion Ukraine entering NATO is indeed an existential threat to Russia, because since (at least) the collapse of the UDSSR the U.S. and it's vassals openly communicated and pursued the goal of regime changing Russia (+ Belarus, Georgia).

2OEH8eoCRo0 10mo ago

It's geopolitical. They don't care if you seize the ships because they don't care about a return on investment.

raverbashing 10mo ago
Good, another reason to seize them
KumaBear 10mo ago
Even better life in prison for all on board. (This is extreme but I bet you that they'd think twice)
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 10mo ago
  That's not extreme. They destroyed a piece of expensive critical infrastructure. Prison and seizure should be the bare minimum. I just mean it's not enough to prevent it in the future.
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
  > life in prison for all on board Honestly, give any Russian or shadow-vessel crew a bounty if they surrender. Turn Moscow’s fleet into a cheap source of intelligence and scrap.

mullingitover 10mo ago

> There needs to be sufficient deterrent to actually stop this from happening One ship might be considered a reasonable pawn to sacrifice. I'd go further: require that any ships passing through the strait to be bonded at some eye-watering amount like 10x the price of the ship plus the repair costs of the cable. Make it so if the cable is cut, you make a profit.

WA 10mo ago
Only works if you find someone to pay. I listened to a lengthy (German) podcast about international maritime law. To sum it up: you can’t do that much, because you won’t find the responsible person/company/state.
- bena 10mo ago
  The Outlaw Sea, https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780865477223/theoutlawsea/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780865477223/theoutlawsea/ , is a book about all of the ways international water is essentially lawless.
- jopsen 10mo ago
  Most of the water isn't internal.. getting in and out of the baltic sea goes past Sweden/Denmark. But we probably have promised not to blockade ships in some conventions. And little Denmark (or Sweden) do not benefit from setting a precedence that conventions can be broken. Getting payback is easy though: support Ukraine.
  - actionfromafar 10mo ago
    There is no such convention as far as I can tell.
    - nradov 10mo ago
      Most nations have either signed the UNCLOS to otherwise agreed to follow most of those rules. This includes the right of innocent passage through territorial waters. Of course if a vessel engages in hostile acts then they're no longer entitled to exercise that right.

belter 10mo ago

Russia has already carried out chemical attacks on UK soil, used radioactive poisoning in London, sabotaged rail infrastructure in Poland, and launched cyberattacks against German air traffic control.[1] The Associated Press has documented 59 Russian hybrid operations across Europe. A systematic campaign of intimidation, sabotage, and violence: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-europe-hybrid-campaign-d61887dd3ec6151adf354c5bd3e6273e https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-europe-hybrid-... Russia supplied the Buk missile system that shot down MH17, killing 298 civilians, most of them Europeans. Putin eliminates political opponents, like Alexei Navalny, who died in custody days before a possible release. European leaders may be passive and slow, but what is making the situation truly dangerous, is the dictator-jealousy fueled encouragement and indulgence of the current U.S. administration, and all its sycophants, which got to the point of publicly applauding a dictator on U.S. soil. That behavior legitimizes aggression, emboldens Moscow, and directly undermines European security, and is making thinks really, really, sketchy right now. Germany accuses Russia of air traffic control cyber-attack: [1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgrrnylzzyo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgrrnylzzyo

MaxPock 10mo ago
Europe believes that Russia is doing all sorts of bad things and there's also the belief that Moscow plans to invade the EU . Isn't the logical action for EU to launch massive pre-emptive strikes on this big bad country that hates the western way of life ?
- eptcyka 10mo ago
  I don’t believe the leadership sees Russia as an existential threat in Brussels. Baltics and Poland see it differently. A pre-emptive strike would be expensive and immediately retcon into making Putin be the good guy - he’s long said NATO is the aggressor. Best to make invading EU to be too expensive to be worth it. I think the bigger risk currently that Europe faces is the low and mid level corruption where Russian agents extend their tendrils into government structures in EU.
  - 10mo ago

deepsun 10mo ago

Russia started convoying some of those vessels, especially with more advanced operation bases than cable cuts [1]. They won't be able to seize those without opening fire. https://ioplus.nl/en/posts/how-seven-students-unmasked-russias-drone-motherships https://ioplus.nl/en/posts/how-seven-students-unmasked-russi...

alecthomas 10mo ago
That is...disturbing.
Sabinus 10mo ago
That's fine. Let Russia escort ships that then break cables. It'll make it more obvious it's deliberate, and provide a reason for blockade and confrontation.
- vasco 10mo ago
  There's literal war ongoing already, no extra excuse is needed, only political will.
  - rtkwe 10mo ago
    There's a reason countries like to fight proxy wars over real wars, they cost money not (their own) lives.
- miohtama 10mo ago
  And then NATO will obliterate Russia's Baltic fleet before the sun rises.
  - dmitrygr 10mo ago
    A hot NATO-Russia engagement ends with a few sunrises at 3am all over Europe, USA, and Russia. Not a thing to joke about or cheer.
    - 10mo ago

NedF 10mo ago

[dead]

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago

> pretty obvious what's happening here Good start. Then turn off Russia’s cable that runs via Finland [1] and make vague threats about (a) seizing shadow-fleet vessels in the Baltics and (b) how vulnerable Russia’s cable to Kaliningrad [2] would be to careless anchors. All the while: start setting up non-cable based back-up bandwidth for if Russia severs these cables in advance of invasion. [1] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/bcs-north---phase-2 https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/bcs-north-... [2] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/kingisepp-kaliningrad-system-baltika https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/kingisepp-...

jojobas 10mo ago

They can use 30-year old handysize rust buckets that can be cheaper than some cable repairs. Jailing crews in comfy Scandinavian prisons can hardly be a strong deterrent either. Russia is all-in on this confrontation, Europe is much wealthier but won't commit anywhere near the effort or expense.

padjo 10mo ago
Russia has an immense capacity to endure suffering and sacrifice lives. It’s basically their secret weapon.
- edm0nd 10mo ago
  yup. RU will literally wait decades and then send their lil KGB/GRU agents all around the world to assassinate you, chop you up, or poison you. they play the long game and never forget.
nradov 10mo ago
Many of the shadow fleet crew members aren't even Russians. Typically only the master and some officers are privy to the real mission. The other crew members are just random seamen hired from the usual poor countries so jailing them would be pointless.
- jojobas 10mo ago
  Typically only the master and mates are liable for breaches like that? It's not that a boatswain, a C/E decides when to drop an anchor.

rasz 10mo ago

Nothing burger incoming. Previously Finland let go of Eagle S despite evidence of cutting cables https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/02/world/europe/finland-tanker-sabotage-cables-baltic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/02/world/europe/finland-tank...

mmooss 10mo ago

Escalation is a classic trap to fall into: The other side wants escalation of tension, otherwise they wouldn't do this. And they get to choose when and where and, to a degree, the means by which it happens - you can be sure it's a time and place and means that benefits them. The fundamental of international relations in conflict is to deter without escalation, and to act in the time, place, and manner of your choosing. You'll see leaders cite that specifically: 'We have this problem; we will respond in the time, place, and in the way we think best.'

yoavm 10mo ago
This sounds very nice but it's unclear to me what it is that you're suggesting. Who said the place isn't the Baltic sea, the time is now, and the way is to escalate? In other words, what's a better place/time/way according to you?
- mmooss 10mo ago
  > it's unclear to me what it is that you're suggesting. That's fair. I lack the expertise and information to know the options and details. But what I said in the GP is international relations 101 - or maybe the first day of grad school.

MangoToupe 10mo ago

There's essentially nothing you can do to deter this sort of behavior short of starting a war

ekaryotic 10mo ago
could you cut russias undersea cables in a tit for tat?
- bdangubic 10mo ago
  there is internet in russia? :)
TulliusCicero 10mo ago
That's exactly the appeasement mentality that lets Russia get away with everything. "We don't want to start a war doncha know, so whenever Russia attacks us we'll just take it on the chin and not fight back too hard". It appears the world has forgotten the lessons of the Sudetenland.
- MangoToupe 10mo ago
  I guess I don't subscribe to the same hysteria about russia you do. I'm far more worried about how my own country behaves, i'm extremely cynical about european leadership including this exact attitude you profess, and I don't trust the people who run this place. All of these things I fear far more than i fear russia Look if russia wants to conquer the world, let them. They can't make things worse than the indolent ivy-league rot that has destroyed western culture. If people braying about the threat of the east want to be taken seriously, they need to make a much more concerted effort to convince us that the western model makes sense and we're not just working our asses off to suck off rich retards
  - Sabinus 10mo ago
    >Look if russia wants to conquer the world, let them. They can't make things worse than the indolent ivy-league rot that has destroyed western culture. Do you have any experience living under Russian rule? Have you tried any political participation while doing so?

vzaliva 10mo ago

I suspect the price of a ship compared to economic damages caused by the cut cable is negligible. This is what russia calls "assymetric war". The response should be more economic sanctions.

colechristensen 10mo ago
Economic sanctions won't prevent the FSB from paying off ship captains to do these things. Seizing ships and imprisoning captains might provide some amount of deterrent. Clearly only way economic sanctions will have a behavioral impact on Russia is if the effects are so bad it triggers revolution which has its own dangers. Direct consequences for the people in the sphere of these actions is more prudent.
TulliusCicero 10mo ago
There's generally enough cables that cutting one doesn't completely shut down some area of web traffic, it just gets slower, so it's hard to say. But yeah, if Russia keeps it up, just blockade the Baltic Sea for ships heading to Russian ports.

DonHopkins 10mo ago

The crew are probably living much better and safer lives in Finnish jail than they would out of jail in Russia. Speaking of the joy of living in Russia, check out the hilarious story of racist right wing Finnish Flat Earther anti-immigrant anti-refugee pro-Russian criminal asshole Ano Turtiainen, now living as a refugee in Russia and threatening to fight against fellow Finns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen Ano Turtiainen is a former Finnish powerlifter turned far-right politician who managed to embarrass himself and others at every step: He was banned for two years in 1998 for androgenic drug use -- perfect start to a "morally upright" career. As an MP with the batshit crazy racist right-wing Finns Party, he posted a mocking tweet about George Floyd's murder ("Pink Floyd"), which was widely condemned as even too racist for the Finns Party, which got him expelled. He set up his own splinter faction and then a tiny party, Power Belongs to the People (VKK), which became known for praising Russia and opposing sanctions and Finnish NATO membership, utterly at odds with mainstream Finnish views. Turtiainen even refused to fire an assistant who posted racist content and had a parliamentary visitor do a Nazi salute (which he photographed himself!). Instead of behaving like a responsible adult during the pandemic, he mocked public health measures, called them "neo-communism", refused masks, and threatened violence over mask mandates. Meanwhile his own company manufactured masks: the ultimate hypocrisy. Turtiainen failed to explain how he used over €30,000 in parliamentary group funds -- so the Finnish Parliament is trying to collect it back through debt enforcement. Not only that: He's a Flat Earther, doesn't believe in space existing, and was convinced NASA interfered in the last election he was involved in so that he only got 7 votes. Now the Ultimate Irony: the Anti-Immigrant Asshole Becomes a Hypocritical Refugee. After losing his seat in the 2023 election (with only ~632 votes), Turtiainen moved to Russia, the country he celebrated, defended even during its invasion of Ukraine, and praised as a cultural "brother". Russia granted him refugee status (yes, refugee status), despite his previous anti-immigrant posturing -- and he proudly accepts it. In videos he’s now said he might fight for Russia -- even against Finns -- in the war in Ukraine. That’s right: the man who slammed refugees and immigrants is now a political asylum seeker in Russia, flirting with joining Russian troops and fighting his own countrymen. Turtiainen's political life is a one-man case study in right-wing hypocrisy, racism, ignorance, self-harm, and irony: The guy who mocked others' suffering ends up dependent on another country’s goodwill -- the same country he championed in Finnish politics. Former Finns Party MP granted refugee status in Russia: The pro-Russian ex-lawmaker has claimed that he would be "ready to go to the front against the Finns" if necessary: https://yle.fi/a/74-20201812 https://yle.fi/a/74-20201812 Former Finnish MP and his wife granted refugee status in Russia: Turtiainen founded and leads the political party "Power belongs to the people": https://fakti.bg/en/world/1024214-former-finnish-mp-and-his-wife-granted-refugee-status-in-russia https://fakti.bg/en/world/1024214-former-finnish-mp-and-his-... Ano Turtiainen: the PS doesn’t love me, I love the PS – watch me now eat my words: https://migranttales.net/ano-turtiainen-the-ps-doesnt-love-me-i-love-the-ps-watch-me-now-eat-my-words/ https://migranttales.net/ano-turtiainen-the-ps-doesnt-love-m... Ano Turtiainen Flat Earth Anti-NASA Views: https://murha.info/rikosfoorumi/viewtopic.php?p=1866262#:~:text=The%20Flat%20Earth%20Society%20recruited%20members%20by,government%20and%20all%20its%20agencies%2C%20particularly%20NASA. https://murha.info/rikosfoorumi/viewtopic.php?p=1866262#:~:t...

super256 10mo ago

Europe has always been known for being governed by the rule of law. If we now start breaking laws and rights, especially regarding property/ownership, this will strongly backfire in the future. This can quickly become a slippery slope towards Willkürsjustiz. It is exactly the same as with the Russian assets held in Belgium at Clearstream. Selling them is a no-no.

thyristan 10mo ago
There is ample precendent for impounding the assets of hostile nations. The Soviets did it to Germany in WW2, so they cannot really claim that they are opposed to that practice. The only reason why this seizure of russian money in Belgium might be a bad idea is reciprocity. Russia would of course then try to seize European assets in Russia. And regarding ships, prize law is still internationally accepted and in effect. Ukraine can offer prize letters to privateers or foreign navies, allowing the seizure of Russian ships. Or they can seize ships themselves. When those ships are then in a Ukrainian or allied harbor, a Ukrainian admirality court then assigns ownership of the vessel and all goods to the ones who brought it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_(law)
- rasz 10mo ago
  >Russia would of course then try to seize European assets in Russia. They already did. all the planes https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/16/business/russia-aircraft-seizure https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/16/business/russia-aircraft-... carlsberg https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/business/carlsberg-russia-business-stolen https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/business/carlsberg-russia-bus... danone https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66218999 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66218999 fortum https://www.fortum.com/en/media/2025/08/fortums-statement-related-confiscation-fortums-russian-subsidiary-chelyabenergoremont https://www.fortum.com/en/media/2025/08/fortums-statement-re... the list goes on and on