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Why C++ programmers keep growing fast despite competition, safety, and AI
- paperplaneflyr 10mo agoSo C, C++, and Rust programmers will be in demand, and other languages will shrink? Does this also relate to rising DRAM costs, which will make memory-efficient code more usable as we head into an unseen future?
- RadiozRadioz 10mo agoIt definitely doesn't relate, the time horizon is wrong. The software needs much longer to change, and that change needs much longer to appear in the job market. Compared to the timeframe in the article DRAM prices have only just spiked up now. Projecting into the future, hardware expenses have always been dwarfed by salaries. I don't expect that will change enough for it to be noticeable.
- estimator7292 10mo agoThe costs of hardware will take a long time to percolate up to software architecture, if they ever do. Until current computers cycle out, people will largely keep their 1-3 year old machine with sane amounts of memory. If we start seeing large numbers of machines in the wild with 4GB of memory, then maybe software will adapt. But that won't be for several years yet.
- pornel 10mo agoGrowth of CUDA gave it a second chance.
- deeznuttynutz 10mo agoI guess TPUs and JAX give it a third chance, and maybe MLX a fourth, lmao.
- nacozarina 10mo agoC++ is so bloated that every project must outlaw multiple parts of it from being used on their project. Using the whole language is an explicit antipattern. Every project must colonize a valley of the language, declare a dialect, and bit-fiddle their own thing. It might be a measure of popularity, but not of unity.
- estimator7292 10mo agoThat's how all programming languages work. Have you used 100% of the features in any language you've used? Ever?
- smeeagain2 10mo ago[dead]
- ahartmetz 10mo agoYeah, no. That is not a fair description of Rust. It's got far fewer mistakes than C++ and, get this, it has a mechanism for tentative features that can get revised and fixed based on usage experience. It doesn't always work especially for far-reaching decisions (I hear that async is considered problematic), but it prevents a lot of stupid mistakes that C++ is carrying along forever - with a few exceptions (e.g. garbage collection support, extern templates) and some very notable inclusions (the kind of botched module system, suboptimal unordered_map, std::string which is more of a byte/word array). I like C++ because I like the fairly unique high performance low level feature set, not because I particularly like most of the detailed design decisions that went into it. Rust has the same goals, but is better thought out IMO. I'm sure that I will find some more trouble in Rust as I use it more, but so far the impression is quite good. I have become pretty good at writing C++ code that works after fixing one or two stupid bugs, and that works even better in Rust, mostly without the stupid bugs because you can't forget to null-check a pointer to another subsystem while starting up etc.
- smeeagain2 10mo ago
- rzerowan 10mo agoYeah C++ isnt going away anytime soon - its not even in the COBOL phase of its lifetime despite the rise of Rust/Go as systems languages. However it would be imperative for a push such as Carbon[1] to be similar to the kotlin to Java. A modernisation that simplifies , maintains backwards/forwards compatibility and reuses established libraries and tooling. This however will need a entity that can champion and push it forward with a strong enough project to anchor it in the mainstream.The transitions are doable ,like Android dev from plain java to kotlin , or in OSX moving from Objective-C to Swift. Additionally borrowing a robust batteries type standard library to reduce the sprawl of coding options and funnel greenfield projects into best practices and less boilerplate. [1] https://www.infoworld.com/article/2337225/beyond-c-the-promise-of-rust-carbon-and-cppfront.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/2337225/beyond-c-the-promi...
- smw 10mo agoI think most people wouldn't call Go a systems language? Generally garbage collection lack of explicit memory access would put a language outside the category? Hard to write a device driver, for instance.
- rzerowan 10mo agoTrue although there is Ocaml which has been used in OS/driver/Hypervisor development while also having a GC. I always thought the Go equivalents would have perfomance at parity - but never reallyseen that realised so far.
- ramon156 10mo agoAll the following statements can live without colliding. - The current CPP version is extremely bloated - CPP is not going away anytime soon - The rise of Rust/Go/Zig is not fighting for CPP's seat - You can target CPP code using any of these aforementioned languages - Rust has never claimed to be "safer", it just makes it harder to write unsafe code
- IshKebab 10mo ago> Rust/Go/Zig are not fighting for C++'s seat Of course they are. Go less so, and Zig is really aiming for C. Rust is definitely meant to be a better alternative to C++. > Rust has never claimed to be "safer"... What? Of course it has (or Rust developers have; a language can't claim anything). And it is much safer.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- singularity2001 10mo agoA subset of the language keeps getting better and better you just need to ignore the demon of many decades of bloated nonsense. So for new projects it can even be pleasant until you run into something that makes you wanna go rust
- smeeagain2 10mo ago[dead]
- vovavili 10mo agoI guess you'll be stuck using something like Plan 9 then.
- smeeagain2 10mo ago[flagged]
- vovavili 10mo agoThat is an extremely condescending, rude and arrogant response for a harmless comment. HN deserves better.
- smeeagain2 10mo ago[flagged]
- spoiler 10mo agoI found their comment hilarious... I can't tell if it's satire or not. There's just too much going on at the same time for this not to be trolling lol
- einsteinx2 10mo agoThis describes basically all their comments in this thread, which seems to be basically all their comments ever on this 3 day old seemingly troll account.
- jokoon 10mo agoI am french, good C++ scores on senior tests, still out of a job I lack a degree though
- BoingBoomTschak 10mo agoSame city as you, same language. There's work but not much if you don't want to enter the consulting meat grinder.
- jokoon 10mo agoI am willing to enter the consulting meat grinder, if you have any tip I get regularly contacted my them, but they don't hire me
- BoingBoomTschak 10mo agoDon't think I can give tips of value, as I'm "still young" and hold a pretty good diploma, so our positions are quite different. But my impression is that having a good enough portfolio (i.e. a meatier and more active GH) is a must if you lack the precious piece of paper.
- helltone 10mo agoIs there anything like a linter to force you to stay within some subset of c++? I like the language, but it is hard to avoid language constructs that are outdated or enforce a single (or a few) ways of doing things. A c++ subset could be nice.
- estimator7292 10mo agoWe have clang-pretty
- glouwbug 10mo agoC++ profiles
- norir 10mo agoThis is weirdly confident and defensive at the same time. If c++ is so great, why does it need to be so ardently defended and its very obvious problems handwaved away? I take a very different view about the trajectory of languages given the current trends in software development. The more people rely upon agentic coding processes, the more they will demand faster compilation which will increasingly become a significant bottleneck on product velocity. The faster the llms get, the more important it is for the tools they use to be fast. Right now, I still think we are in an uncanny valley where llms are still slow enough that slow tooling does not seem that bad, but this is likely to change. People will no longer be satisfied asking their agent to make a change and come back in a minute or an hour. They will expect the result nearly instantaneously. C++ (and rust) compile times are too slow for the agent to iterate in the human reaction window so I believe that one of two things will happen over the next few years: llm progress will stall out or c++ and rust will nosedive in popularity.
- hu3 10mo agoIf [language] is so great, why does it need to be so ardently defended and its very obvious problems handwaved away? Every language popular enough is like that.
- 12_throw_away 10mo agoWell, if the chair of the C++ standards committee truly believes that C++ has no serious safety issues, it certainly explains why safety proposals have gone nowhere and "profiles" remain vaporware.
- IshKebab 10mo ago> in the past three years the global developer population grew about 50%, from just over 31 million to just over 47 million That's not really plausible. Unfortunately this is all you get on the methodology: > Our methodology is based on two main pillars. First, we make use of reliable sources of developer numbers or direct indicators of their activity. This includes the number of GitHub accounts, Stack Overflow accounts, and employment statistics from the USA and the European Union. Second, we rely on our Global Developer Survey data, where we directly measure developer activity. So far, we've run 29 waves of this large survey, and in each, we reach more than 10,000 developers globally. We combine these two main sources to derive our estimates. Plenty of space for them to screw up I think.
- raccoonhands 10mo agoi personally enjoy it because i just think it's a blast to write and typically understandable and explicit in its language. with the caveat that i know it could be better. at this point i just think it's simpler than some of the stuff out there from a 'whats happening underneath the hood' perspective