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AI Bathroom Monitors? Welcome to America's New Surveillance High Schools
- whalesalad 10mo agoCoincidentally I just watched this Defcon talk on these popular bathroom 'smoke detectors' that can detect vapes and listen in on conversations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCnojaEpF2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCnojaEpF2I
- gnabgib 10mo agoThere was a bit of discussion around that: It Looks Like a School Bathroom Smoke Detector. It Could Be an Audio Bug (17 points, 4 months ago, 12 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915338
- m4ck_ 10mo agoI imagine these will be in apartments soon. this shit makes me want to move into a hollowed out tree trunk and forage.
- whalesalad 10mo agoThey already are in apartments. Also hospitals, nursing homes, all kinds of places. The talk digs into that.
- reilly3000 10mo agoThe forests are full of cameras. Trail cams and “game cams” are everywhere and can be hard to spot.
- acuozzo 10mo ago> I imagine these will be in apartments soon. This would constitute illegal wiretapping. You have a legally-defensible reasonable expectation of privacy in your domicile in the absence of a warrant.
- ls612 10mo agoIt’s only actually illegal if a landlord went to jail for doing it, otherwise it’s just a cost of doing business.
- self_awareness 10mo agohttps://archive.ph/g3MFJ https://archive.ph/g3MFJ
- monksy 10mo agoDid I ever tell you you're my hero?
- _alaya 10mo agoIt was a scrap of paper folded into a square. While he stood at the urinal he managed, with a little more fingering, to get it unfolded. Obviously there must be a message of some kind written on it. For a moment he was tempted to take it into one of the water-closets [toilets] and read it at once. But that would be shocking folly, as he well knew. There was no place where you could be more certain that the telescreens were watched continuously. - George Orwell, 1984
- esafak 10mo agoTo think this is in Beverley Hills, Los Angeles... surely these rich kids can afford to fly to China and see how it's done right?
- mc32 10mo agoYou may not be aware, but China experiences mass stabbings -albeit not at the same rate as the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3dxz1vzdyzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3dxz1vzdyzo That's to say, every society has its discontents who take their anger and frustration and discharge it on innocent civilians. Some societies manage their mentally ill people better than others. We do a pretty pitiful job at it.
- Insanity 10mo ago19 mass stabbings in 2024 in China vs 586 mass shooting incidents in the USA. Per capita, that's even worse. EDIT: I used ChatGPT 'thinking mode' to get that number for USA. Where mass shooting >= 4 people injured.
- exceptione 10mo ago> EDIT: I used ChatGPT You are well-intending, but don't do that for factual information. I have seen discussions derail because of hallucinated parliamentary history; and the concept of truth became irrelevant.
- cwillu 10mo agoIn the future, get it to give citations, and then use the citations instead. AI is like porn: use it if you must, but don't make it my problem.
- pseudalopex 10mo agoAnd confirm the citations.
- JohnMakin 10mo ago
- nancyminusone 10mo agoWorth mentioning that "no digital recording devices in bathrooms" is something explicitly called out in the boy scouts' anti-child abuse training, mandatory for any adult volunteer.
- tzs 10mo agoI wonder why they say "digital recording devices" rather than simply "recording devices"? Digital is most of the market now but analog video cameras, analog video recorders, and analog tape recorders are still made.
- elric 10mo agoProbably not an issue in practice: no one owns them anymore, no one walks around with them 24/7, and they're nigh impossible to use covertly.
- westmeal 10mo agoProbably because the creepy boy scout leaders used analog video recorders and had a meeting to exclude them. Realistically it's just an oversight... hopefully...
- nancyminusone 10mo agoIt's actually "cameras and digital recording devices". My guess is that they meant to say "don't have your phone out in the bathroom" but someone in the meeting went "well my son records stuff on his Nintendo DS all the time" and they changed it. If you're the kind of guy to bring a tape recorder in there and argue about splitting hairs, I don't think they will look kindly upon you.
- graypegg 10mo ago> The surveillance system spots multiple threats per day, the district said. … multiple threats a day?! At 1 high school?! Citation needed on that. I know that US high schools have a reputation of being unsafe, but I highly doubt there’s near-HOURLY thwarting of “threats”. Are we talking about rule breaking (vaping in the bathroom, skipping class) or bullying? I would assume so. The fact it’s then immediately followed up with stats about gun violence does sort of imply we’re talking about serious threats… Sure, maybe you go full-prison mode if there’s an hourly murder, but that’s so outside the realm of reality that I’m not willing to even entertain that as being a possibility. You would’ve run out of students by now.
- flatline 10mo agoMy daughter hears about gun threats at her high school weekly. I don't know how many are actual threats, but they have implemented a transparent bag policy, it's a real problem.
- potato3732842 10mo agoIf it was a real problem they'd have metal detectors and security rather than security theater.
- dragonwriter 10mo ago> they have implemented a transparent bag policy, it's a real problem. This makes the assumption that all policies have a reasonable justification, so that the existence of a real problem can be inferred by the implementation of a policy which would only make sense if (1) there was a real problem, and (2) the policy was an effective mitigation. I would suggest that this assumption is both false and dangerous, in that it makes one trivially manipulable by anyone in a position to set policy.
- kmoser 10mo ago> The report also found that the surveillance fostered an atmosphere of distrust: 32% of 14 to 18-year-old students surveyed said they felt like they were always being watched. Only 32% felt they were always being watched, but in reality 100% of them were always being watched.
- hwers 10mo ago68% felt like they were being watched but didn’t feel safe to admit so because they didn’t trust the report were truly anonymous
- zamadatix 10mo agoThis seems wildly optimistic to me. We see the same complacency and/or unawareness with e.g. Flock in society - the truth is most people really just don't think about it, or even mind when they do.
- zamadatix 10mo agoNot 100% of nationwide schools in the survey _always_ watch people. It'd've be interesting if the survey had been able to compare schools still primarily using "normal" surveillance of students vs the kinds for the school discussed in the article and how much of an impact just these changes were having.
- bdangubic 10mo agothe rest are hoping to get onlyfans famous
- jama211 10mo ago“We’ve tried nothing (about guns) and we’re all out of ideas” all over again.
- CamperBob2 10mo agoWe've tried about 20,000 gun-control laws, at last count. It must not be the guns. Same principle applies with cameras. The tool is not the issue.
- wffurr 10mo agoThe rest of the civilized world doesn't seem to have a problem. Their stricter gun control laws seem to work just fine.
- Insanity 10mo agoYeah, it's obviously a gun control issue. But the US has such a deeply ingrained cultural association with owning guns, and thinking that this means "freedom" in case the government turns on the people lol, that I doubt banning them happens in our lifetime.
- exasperaited 10mo agoYou don't need to ban them, though. Isn't that the actual lesson at the end of _Bowling For Columbine_? That Canada has a huge number of guns and isn't so fucked up? What you need to do is undermine the culture of machismo and trollishness around guns: Start with "anyone who poses with guns in their family Christmas photo is to be treated as if they will use them on your family or their own kids without a moment's hesitation for their own gain". (Like, if you get a Christmas card from a family with guns in their photo, why would you consider that anything other than a threatening communication? It clearly is.) Move on to "anyone who has more usable guns than they can hold in their hands is probably a broken person and maybe you should consider keeping your distance". Move on to "anyone who owns a bump stock is insane or compensating for a tiny penis", and "anyone who doesn't keep their guns in a gun safe is not safe to be around at all". Move on to "open carry does not mean ostentatious carry". Start thinking about whether open carry is, in fact, a necessary conclusion of the right to bear arms. Move on to fucking investigating NRA corruption properly. Don't just point it out. Move on to humiliating politicians who take gun lobby money. Don't just point it out as if it's some form of conflict of interest or a sign they won't be serious about gun crime. Laugh at them. Call them spineless cowards. Humiliate them for their craven foolishness. Aim for a process that preserves the right to bear arms but makes gun nuts seem as untrustworthy and dangerous as it turns out they so often are. And if you are a gun owner and you believe guns should be treated with caution and respect, and you know someone who doesn't, tell them in no uncertain terms, and if you ever see them get violent, tell the police of your concerns. Make gun obsession weird again.
- Manfred 10mo agoAs an outsider this feels like they treat these kids like cattle.
- canyp 10mo agoWorse, they are treated like criminals.
- marcosdumay 10mo agoCivilized places don't treat "criminals" like that. You'd need further qualifications there to make this kind of thing acceptable (as in "violent criminals" or something like that).
- cultofmetatron 10mo agoget em used to it while they are young. They will see it as normal by the time they can vote.
- caymanjim 10mo agoExcept kids already voluntarily gave up their own privacy to such an extent that they don't value it whatsoever. The government is lagging here. Kids will record you without consent anywhere and everywhere, post it online, live stream everything they do, overshare with no limits. They don't understand the idea of privacy. They don't even like the idea of privacy.
- cultofmetatron 10mo ago> Except kids already voluntarily gave up their own privacy to such an extent that they don't value it whatsoever. kids don't get privacy in the first place. thats something we give them and they LEARN to value it. thats the goal of this kind of legislation. prevent them from ever having it in the first place.
- Toorkit 10mo ago99% of students had cafeteria lunch and I was one of a couple with a lunch box. Teachers in the hallway would see it and get mad until I showed them my sandwich lol.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- josefritzishere 10mo agoThis is existentially offensive. I don't think I've ever felt this offended in my whole adult life.
- Dwedit 10mo agoBack in high school, I often ran into toilets with missing stall doors, and would need to search for another bathroom which had them.
- MisterTea 10mo agoYup. NYC public high school bathrooms were notorious for not having doors. The reason given was the heroin or whatever drug epidemics warranted removing the doors so students couldn't hide in them to shoot up and pass out. That supposedly started in the 60's or 70's and still going on in the 90's into the 00's. My school had ONE boys bathroom and the rest were closed and used as storage. It was located outside of the lunch room main doors where a security guard sat. No stall doors. The normal protocol was you never shit in school. If you really had to go you prayed no one was in the last stall and covered your lap with your book bag OR try to use the one in the nurses office by claiming you were nauseous. I have on more than one occasion feigned sickness to get my mother to pick me up so I could go home and take a dump with dignity.
- whatevaa 10mo agoThat is so fucked up.
- canyp 10mo agoAs it turns out, the constant state of fear and paranoia is more profitable than gun control. I'm sure many parents even support it, knowing that their kid can be shot any day at any time, and not having much political power for an alternative solution.
- goku12 10mo agoWhat are you being downvoted for? Is it about gun control? I genuinely would like a clarification.
- canyp 10mo agoI made people uncomfortable but they have nothing to reply because I spoke a simple fact.
- goku12 10mo agoAmericans should try living in another country for a while. You don't need to worry about school shootings when you send your kids there in the morning. You don't need to worry about getting shot up in the neighborhood restaurant. You don't need to worry about protests turning into into little armed street wars. You don't need to worry about the cops shooting you dead because they're so worried that you may be carrying concealed arms. Life happens on a different gear. You'll certainly gain an appreciation for gun control and how noncontroversial it is.
- elric 10mo agoIf the 18th century was about Enlightenment, the 21st century is about Distrust. We need to stop this nonsense. Fear, surveillance, and distrust are out of control.
- goku12 10mo agoAt what point is anyone going to say enough is enough? When will somebody stand up and call out their gaslighting excuses and insist on them stopping their false pretense of concern and altruism? When will see the perpetrators being confronted for their real criminal intent?
- exceptione 10mo agoI hope they had tested it out on Epstein Island to iron out any teething problems.
- pavel_lishin 10mo ago> Earlier this year, someone drew a swastika on the sidewalk outside one of the district’s elementary schools. And did the surveillance equipment catch the perpetrator?
- maxglute 10mo agoI guess AB test some other schools that spends 5m on counselling instead of security.
- blacksmith_tb 10mo agoCory Doctorow's _Little Brother_ [1] predicted gait and affect detecting school surveillance all the way back in 2008 [1]. Sad to see that come true. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Brother_(Doctorow_novel)#Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Brother_(Doctorow_novel...
- knotimpressed 10mo agoI was thinking about that while reading; in some ways I think this reality is on a worse track than Little Brother's. In the book, schools were using gait analysis because of privacy concerns about facial recognition. In reality, facial recognition seems to be able to be adopted by schools with little pushback. I hope we all crawl out of the pot before we're turned into frog soup.
- maylwoo 10mo agoOur local high school has had a shooting or stabbing in 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025. Last month, 2 students were shot and there have been 3 lockdowns at the school so far this year (that's 3 in 3 months). This school is in one of the most affluent parts of the bay area (in the hills surrounded by multi-mullion dollar homes and redwood trees). For most of my life, I've been ambivalent about surveillance cameras (neither in favor nor against them) but now I lean towards supporting efforts to install them (especially since the shootings at Brown and MIT). If they eventually help to apprehend a killer before they hurt someone else or cause people to think twice about even bringing a weapon to a school, then that benefit overrides any "atmosphere of distrust." Nobody wants to get a call that their child has been shot at school.
- cruffle_duffle 10mo agoSan Francisco was one of the harshest lockdown cities on the planet with one of the longest school closures anywhere in the industrialized world. West coast cities absolutely fucked over their kids.
- gosub100 10mo agoWait aren't schools "gun-free zones"? How could there be a shooting if it's gun-free? Or did the bullet come from outside the zone?
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- zamadatix 10mo agoIf we all resorted to snarky replies on HN then the conversation would be in a sad state despite the posting in the guidelines saying not to. Of course the posting of the guidelines is not the source of their enforcement, it's just a notice of what will be corrected by the mods via means other than written notice or group encouragement towards the environment the guidelines create. While that doesn't drive comments against the guidelines to 0, I think it does a better job than if we all took to being as a defense to snark instead.
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- DrPimienta 10mo agoIsn't this wildly illegal?