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Canada's Carney called out for 'utilizing' British spelling
- alephnerd 11mo agoAt least in my experience in early 2000s BC we still used British spelling in grade school and all over Vancouver, the Lower Mainland, and the island (eg. Harbour Centre)
- mitthrowaway2 11mo agoThat's the Canadian spelling, which is why when you take the taxi to the Harbour Centre it drops you off at the curb, rather than the kerb.
- sefrost 11mo ago...and what are those rubber things rolling under the taxi called in BC? ;-)
- alephnerd 11mo agoMy teachers called it British and I kept with it. BC back then was also much more "British" than much of Eastern Canada tbh - most of my classmates either had grandparents or parents who immigrated from the UK or UK dependencies (eg. the Hong Kong exodus after 1998).
- empressplay 11mo agoThey were wrong. Canadian English has the very unique word colourize, for example.
- mh- 11mo agoThat was some 4000 years ago.
- mjd 11mo agoAsked to comment, Carney's office stated that they had told those hosers to take off.
- joecool1029 11mo agoRelated: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/the-ize-have-it https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/the-ize-have-it
- Waterluvian 11mo agoCanadian English is what you get when a country moves out of England’s attic to attend university and ends up with America as a roommate.
- kimos 11mo agoI think it’s more share a wall with America but rooming with France.
- kens 11mo ago> "So far, bless him, he has not resorted to 'gaol' for 'jail.'" Some parts of Canada inexplicably used "gaol" for "jail" until fairly recently. For example, the "Headingley Gaol" near Winnipeg. The jail has been renamed to Headingley Correctional Center, but the road to it is still Gaol Road, preserving the linguistic curiosity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headingley_Correctional_Institution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headingley_Correctional_Instit... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gaol+Rd,+Headingley,+MB,+Canada/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gaol+Rd,+Headingley,+MB,+C...
- breve 11mo ago> For example, the "Headingley Gaol" near Winnipeg. Why is that inexplicable? It would have originally been called that with that spelling.
- joshdavham 11mo ago> For example, the "Headingley Gaol" near Winnipeg. Fellow Winnipeger here! I remember driving by that sign as a kid and being baffled by that word.
- realo 11mo agoCanada is not just english-speaking, but also french speaking. We have TWO national languages, with equal importance. This being said, I would suspect the english word gaol comes from the french word geôle.
- jeroenhd 11mo agoAccording to Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaol https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaol), gaol and geôle have a common shared ancestor in Old French/Latin. It's not the result of Canada's multilingual nature.
- catlover76 11mo ago[dead]
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- thomassmith65 11mo agoI've never heard anything about a change to British spelling. Sounds like nonsense. Carney is the most popular politician Canada has had in decades. The opposition party is starting to fall apart (two members defected, which means Carney's party is one seat away from a majority). Whole thing sounds like an attempt to manufacture an 'Obama beige suit' moment.
- eru 11mo ago> Carney is the most popular politician Canada has had in decades. All thanks to Trump's silly tariffs. There's a silver lining to everything. I hope that the association makes protectionism politically taboo for decades to come.
- vkou 11mo ago> All thanks to Trump's silly tariffs The tariffs were just half of it, the attacks on national sovereignty were the other, and Pierre being his usual shallow and despicable self on the campaign trail were the third. If Carney (or almost anyone but PP, really) were the head of the CPC, they'd have had a majority today. But looking at where the party's going, it's doubtful that the CPC will ever again elect a leader who can both read and write.
- palmotea 11mo ago> I hope that the association makes protectionism politically taboo for decades to come. That is waaaay too black and white. Trump's actions != protectionism, Trump's actions ⊂ protectionism (and have been stupid). Free trade and globalization has failed most of the world in pretty serious ways (though it's been great for the much of the elite, floating on top of big piles of capital). Protectionism is important, it just needs to be conducted in a smarter way (instead of indiscriminately tariffing everyone all the sudden)
- throw0101d 11mo ago>> I hope that the association makes protectionism politically taboo for decades to come. > That is waaaay too black and white. We're talking about Trump here: of course it's black and white. > Free trade and globalization has failed most of the world in pretty serious ways (though it's been great for the much of the elite, floating on top of big piles of capital). I don't know: extreme poverty has been driven down quite effectively AFAICT: * https://www.gapminder.org/questions/gms1-3/ https://www.gapminder.org/questions/gms1-3/ * https://www.gapminder.org/data/documentation/epovrate/ https://www.gapminder.org/data/documentation/epovrate/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China Wealth inequality dropped after the Gilded Age and post-WW2 until the 1970s (in the US); nothing said it couldn't have been kept down (say, if Reagan was not elected). There's nothing inherent to free trade and globalization that should lead to it if are willing to redistribution (e.g., through taxation and social programs).
- zzo38computer 11mo agoI agree that Carney should use Canadian English. However, this does not seem like a major enough issue to me, to worry about much, nor is it important enough to fine or sue anyone or anything else like that.
- zkmon 11mo agoAlso, he should use Times New Roman instead of Calibri.
- mayoff 11mo agoMaybe just don't utilize "utilize" or "utilise" at all. There are very few cases where utilizing "utilize" or "utilise" is better than using "use".
- pitched 11mo agoI think they have slightly different meanings where “use” is more direct like a tool and “utilize” is more indirect like a system but that could be more about context than meaning. The words “usage” and “utilization” show this more where I would expect “usage” to be binary or integer and “utilization” to be fractional or percentage. That context and expectation is important for clear writing.
- anigbrowl 11mo agoI agree that utilize is distinct from use, in that it makes something useful in a novel way; you might utilize a flat stone to dig, where you would otherwise use a shovel. But I also agree with GP that many words like this are chosen just to sound more impressive, in the same way that people say 'at this time' instead of 'now.'
- pitched 11mo agoThis helped me understand what I was getting at so I’ll try explaining again now with that. The words are typically used in two different contexts, one more professional (utilize) and one more casual (use). The words can be chosen to hint at which context we’re in or shift the context locally if needed. For example, a story about a group of drunk guys could say that one of them utilized a flat stone to dig, to add humour since we’re clearly not in that professional context.
- griffzhowl 11mo agoIt's just different meanings. "Utilize" means to put something to a use which doesn't normally have that use.
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- zkmon 11mo agoIf I work for a US multi-national and based out of London, and work with team members in both USA and UK, which language should I use for my emails?
- shiroiuma 11mo agoIf you're Canadian, working in Canada, just use Canadian English. The Americans probably won't even notice, and if the Brits complain, then just point out that you're using the proper English for the country you're in now. This assumes your company doesn't have an official policy on the matter.
- omnicognate 11mo agoI am also based in London. When I work for American companies I attempt to use American spellings in code and documentation, because consistency matters. For general communication I use British English because I won't get American English right, humans and search mechanisms can cope with the difference and I can express myself most effectively that way. Incidentally, isn't "based out of" mostly an American idiom? I usually use "based on" or "based in" and find "based out of" and "based off" conjure images of poorly constructed buildings. (Don't get me started on "based off of".)
- zkmon 11mo agoNice catch! It never made sense to me either, to say "out of" when actually it is "in", quite the opposite. I guess I worked mostly with American companies, while educated in British English. I think "based out of" refers to the work communication going "out of" where the person is "based in". But still, it is far cry from the natural "in".
- ascorbic 11mo agoI'm in the same situation. I use American spellings for code comments, documentation and internal documents, but British spelling for chat and email.
- Tiktaalik 11mo agoI write color when I'm talking to my American colleagues and colour when I'm talking to my Canadian ones lol.
- p1dda 11mo agoEnglish is my second language and I feel free to use either 'analyze' and 'analyse'. 'Analyze' looks slightly cooler though.
- TMWNN 11mo agoIt's a wonder he doesn't use American spelling. Carney went to Harvard undergrad, as did his rival in the Liberal leadership contest to succeed Trudeau earlier this year before the election. Put another way, neither Carney nor Freeland has a post-high school degree of any kind from a Canadian school.
- lwansbrough 11mo agoAn odd choice, for sure. Not much else to be said really.
- helsinkiandrew 11mo agoHe spent 7 years (2013-2020) in London running the Bank of England though - as the first foreign head in its 300+ year existence - he would have been very careful to avoid using Canadian/American spellings in official documents - has he just got used to it?
- SwiftyBug 11mo agoIs the prime minister typing out official documents himself?
- murphyslab 11mo agoOne persistent problem is that there isn't a Canadian English spelling option in most software with spellchecking functionality. Often we are forced to choose between US English and British English spelling defaults, when neither is quite right. I suspect that this was a stylistic choice not of Carney himself, but whoever proofread the document. There has been considerable erosion in Canadian orthography in of late, which has only been made worse with the widespread adoption of UFLI English language learning materials in our schools' elementary curricula, which emphasizes American spelling and pronunciation.
- jandrewrogers 11mo agoThe reality is quite complicated. Canadian English is a version of North American English, with a distinctive pronunciation and sub-dialect, but still has vestiges of British English that are lost in America. I feel like Canada is of two minds, awkwardly and indecisively straddling North American English and British English. It wasn’t until I worked overseas that I realized North America has a very distinctive English that imprints on people, even if they lived there a few years. As in Londoners who spent a few years in North America as toddlers have obvious North American tonality, which is baffling to me. I have native relatives in Canada and the UK and I find the language dynamics across the anglosphere fascinating.
- palmotea 11mo ago> The reality is quite complicated. Canadian English is a version of North American English, with a distinctive pronunciation and sub-dialect, but still has vestiges of British English that are lost in America. Does Canadian English still use "gotten"? IIRC, that's a vestige of British English that's been lost in Britain.
- actionfromafar 11mo agoExcept ill gotten gains?
- Tiktaalik 11mo ago
- avaer 11mo agoIt's very refreshing to see political news be about how someone misplaces their letters.
- jandrewrogers 11mo agoMuch ado about nothing. Due to my somewhat international career, I had to learn to code-switch between American and British English. My default is American but can do British as needed. Spelling, vocabulary, dialect to some extent, etc. For a global audience, I find American is the best default. Nonetheless, actual Americans barely notice if you use British English-isms in American contexts. They may notice but no one cares. Everyone knows what you mean. Using British dialect may confuse them occasionally but even then no one cares. Canadians should do what is natural for Canadians. It boggles my mind that someone from a Commonwealth country using British spelling would even warrant a news article. Why is anyone talking about this?
- jmclnx 11mo agoWhere I grew up in the US, in grade school, our neighborhood school in the small city had teachers from both Quebec and Ireland. So we learned non-US spelling first. That caused a pain when I and my friends ended up in high school and had to use US spelling. But to me, who cares, there was a time ages ago people spelt a word the way they wanted and no one cared. Just look at old documents from the 18th century in the US. Even decades later, once in a great while, I end up using colour instead of color :)
- seanw444 11mo agoI never grew up in a British family, or had any sort of close proximity to British things. But I still somehow ended up using "grey", "colour", and "behaviour". They just look more correct.
- joshdavham 11mo agoReminds me of the legendary flow chart "How to measure things like a Canadian": https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/18xbabx/how_to_measure_things_like_a_canadian/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/18xbabx/...
- zahlman 11mo agoIt's honestly more complicated than this.
- RedRider73 11mo agohttps://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge%C3%B4lage https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge%C3%B4lage
- crossroadsguy 11mo agoAnd the gen-text-speak will conquer all with 'utlgng'.
- callamdelaney 11mo agoHow does one go to the Governor of the bank of England to the PM of Canada? Pretty much overnight?
- MadnessASAP 11mo agoWell you start as the governor of the Bank of Canada for 5 years, then the governor of the Bank of England for another 7. After that you spend about 5 years in private finance. In parallel you spend that time acting as an economic advisor to multiple governments. Then the day comes where a major party needs a new leader, all the existing senior leadership either doesnt want it or is some manner of "problematic" and anyways, its not like they're going to win. Then whaddaya know, turns out Canadians like the idea of someone whose spent their whole life in macroeconomics at a time when global economics are all kinds of fucked up. So it wasn't overnight, but it was a case of just the right person at just the right time.
- ThrowawayTestr 11mo agoBe the leader of the liberal party and not be Trudeau
- pbalau 11mo ago5 years is overnight?
- techterrier 11mo agosorry
- andy_ppp 11mo agoHe did work in Britain for decades, if I was him I’d just completely own it and say something like “if this is the weak stuff they are trying to get me on I must be doing a great job with things that actually matter. Everyone, especially the people whinging about this, also make mistakes!”
- MeteorMarc 11mo agoReally, what is under the bonnet in Canadian policy making?
- WesolyKubeczek 11mo agoIf this has to be his biggest flaw, so be it, and I envy Canada a lot.
- filereaper 11mo agoAs a Canadian, we should work on improving our productivity and incorporate more automation and tooling. Whatever impacts our GDP in times of tariffs and economic uncertainty. Not collectively waste time on the useless debates on how to spell things.
- jonny_eh 11mo agoI wish this was the level of scandal we were dealing with in the US. Canada is so lucky to just be squabbling over spelling choices.
- loloquwowndueo 11mo agoOnce there were like 3 police cars and a swarm of people in a neighbours driveway. Someone got shot, I thought, are we turning into America? Turns out a raccoon got stuck in a trash can and they were helping it out.
- fanatic2pope 11mo agoI am still fuming about Obama's tan suit.
- tietjens 11mo agoCan anyone give me an example how Canadian English spelling differs from American English?
- willhslade 11mo agoHarbour. Centre. https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/canadian-english-vs-american-english https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/canadian-english-vs-ameri...
- thebruce87m 11mo ago> But Canadian English takes from British English in other ways, like using 'ou' in colour, rather than the American 'color'.
- yifanl 11mo agoWe pronounce epitome as "epitome" and not "epitome".
- another_twist 11mo agoIf this is the worst this guy has done, well done Canada !
- diego_moita 11mo agoTime for a classic Canadian joke: Canada was supposed to have British Culture, French Cuisine and American Technology. Instead we ended with British Cuisine, American Culture and French Technology.
- shadowgovt 11mo agoUnlike the US, Canada does have official languages so this is very much a request that the PM comply with the law.
- triceratops 11mo agoTypos are illegal? Are the documents in Swahili or something?
- aceofspades19 11mo agoThe Official Languages Act doesn't specify which spelling or dialect you need to use for either French or English. There might be internal federal directives on which to use but its not a legal issue.
- apercu 11mo agoI worked in Canada for 18 years still have Canadian clients 3 years after coming back to the US, no one bats an eye over whether you use American or British spelling in documents. No one. Ever. This is more manufactured outrage. I wish the media was not incentivized to amplify nonsense all the time.
- 50208 11mo agoSounds like something his opponents would use to try and gin up fake outrage. So dumb.
- unsupp0rted 11mo agoIt's silly for there to be such a thing as Canadian Spelling. British spelling, USA spelling... just pick one and move on. Ideally all English-speaking countries would go for something more phonetic, but economic power and inertia trumps simplicity.
- potatoproduct 11mo agoAs a British person working for an American company, my spelling at work is an inconsistent mess.
- lawlessone 11mo ago>Prof Dollinger told the BBC, noting how CanWada's language has evolved from its past as a British colony. Whos face is on the Canadian 20 dollar note?
- loloquwowndueo 11mo ago* whose
- lawlessone 11mo agopedantic , but thank you i often get that one wrong.
- loloquwowndueo 11mo agoIt’s topical on a thread about spelling, wouldn’t you say?
- thomassmith65 11mo agoIncidentally, both 'utilize' and 'utilise' are 'code smells' in writing. One can almost always go with 'use' instead which is an older and simpler word.
- tuveson 11mo agoOver here we spell it "uze", so I think there's still some ambiguity.
- catlover76 11mo ago[dead]
- briandw 11mo agoStyle over substance seems to be the order of the day. It would be refreshing to see people debate of substantive issues, ones that make a difference. It's a symptom of the broader crises in competence. Our leaders are chosen because they aren't good at anything, so we can only argue about their spelling and word choice.
- briandw 11mo agoCome to think of it, why is this in HN and why am I commenting on it? The outrage trap gets me when I let my guard down. It's even come for me here on HN.
- throwaway613745 11mo agoAs an old-stock Canadian (one side of my family settled in Upper Canada in 1782 because of the revolution, so I have very thick British loyalist roots)...I use British spelling. I explicitly reject the use of American English. This is a nothing burger.
- ekjhgkejhgk 11mo agoIs "gossip news" accepted now HN, as long as the celebrities are connected to finance?
- worik 11mo agoThis is a very important matter....
- DiogenesKynikos 11mo ago> In an open letter, they asked Carney to stick to Canadian English, writing that it is "a matter of our national history, identity and pride". A bit touchy, aren't we? There are much better things to be proud about than using "z" instead of "s" in a few words.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- BeaverGoose 11mo agoWhy is this on hacker news exactly?
- subarctic 11mo agoProbably because there's a bunch of English speakers on here from Canada, the US and the UK. TBH I think it made it to the front page because of interesting discussion in the comments, not because of the content of the article itself
- MarkusWandel 11mo agoAs an ESL immigrant, as it happens, I agree with this! Agree with sticking to a "Canadian" spelling. You'll prise the "u" in things like "colour" out of my cold, dead fingers, but just as Canada is a cultural melting pot, so is the language and spelling and the "z" in "utilize" belongs there. We're not British here, we're not 'murricans. This is Canada.
- Pet_Ant 11mo agoOh god, the 'z' in everything is grating. It feels like so try-hard, and I will not utilise it.
- Izikiel43 11mo ago> the "z" in "utilize" As a native spanish speaker, the "utiliZe" spelling makes it easier for us to learn the word, as it's almost the same as the spanish version "utilizar"
- loloquwowndueo 11mo ago*pry, not prise
- bawolff 11mo agoAs a canadian, sheesh. Don't we have better things to worry about?
- kaichanvong 11mo agoOnce got taken to a Canadian shopping mall for books in Canada. There discovered the history of Canada in early-2000's. Now, reading the amusing headline of technology–editing software. This seems there they are now accepting this person; given their change once more? Colour spelled color is fun to discover.
- kaichanvong 11mo agoin edits: losing different spellings; loses more than simply identity, helpful parts of language. In 2025, AI* LLM** sure does sound amazing. * Artificial Intelligence Software ** Large Language Models
- kaichanvong 11mo agoyou'd think text-replacement in-editors also helpful? Given auto-correct happens OK ;P
- robrain 11mo agoBritish-born Canadian here. Strong spelling pedantry courses through my veins. But... this is just the next chapter in Canadian media (ha! it mostly belongs to the southern dictatorship) having a go at non-Trumpish politicians. Life continues.
- j45 11mo agoI had thought Canada spelled words like the UK more often than not. Reading this, I wonder how this became an issue to become big enough to have an article written about it. Then hearing the justifications about why it might be, in turn, pitting a few characters in text on the canadianness of a politician, or not. If you can imagine a word processor somewhere writing this, maybe it didn't have it's language set to English (Canada)? Some folks here have said sometimes it can feel like there might be folks trying to grasp at straws.
- kazinator 11mo agoCanadian here. I use American spellings wherever they make sense and don't gratuitously mess with the Latin roots. Such as "behavior", "neighbor". But: "centre" and not "center" (it's from Latin "centrum": the R goes after the T, and there is no need whatsoever to revise that.) The shift to Z in the -ise Latin-derived suffix is not just in American English. European languages are split about it. For instance, let's look at "to synthesize" German: synthetisieren French: synthétiser Dutch: syntetisere But: Polish: syntetyzować Hungarian: szintetizálni Italian: sintetizzare Romanian: sintetiza I think the sound is Z in all of them? It's partly a question of whether the orthography of the language uses S for a Z sound or not. If they don't have that feature in their orthography then they don't have the choice of retaining an S spelling with a Z sound.
- Aloisius 11mo ago> (it's from Latin "centrum": the R goes after the T, and there is no need whatsoever to revise that.) Why does it matter how it was spelled in Latin? English is not Latin. In the era of ubiquitous access to dictionaries, I'm not sure the benefits of having spelling reflect etymology rather than pronunciation outweigh the cost.
- kazinator 11mo agoThe first part of my argument is this: the word centrum still has a cognate in numerous modern languages, which use the TR letter order: French: centre Italian: centro Czech: centrum # identical to Latin! Swedish: centrum [... numerous others ...] The "TR" order of the letters in the "centrum" cognate is still alive in modern languages and their orthography, and so is even the "centrum" word itself. The second part of my argument is that some contemporary dialects of English itself, like British and Canadian, use "centre"; using the "centre" spelling is a contemporary practice, and not a retrogression toward Latin. The third part of my my argument is that changing "centre" to "center" is a gratuitous change that brings no benefit; it has no redeeming value.
- Aloisius 10mo ago
- sandymcmurray 11mo agoAs a Canadian, I describe my country as, "Proudly Not England, Not France, and Not America, since 1867."
- notatoad 11mo agoas a canadian, i always thought the official canadian spelling was to arbitrarily switch between the british or american spelling of words whenever you felt like it, including interchangeably in the same writing.
- cafard 11mo agoIs the NHL on a holiday break? This seems like the sort of thing one runs in a dead news cycle.
- duxup 11mo agoLong before spellcheck was everywhere, I used to use the British spelling of words when posting on the internet to catch over eager "spelling nazis". I was a fun bit of trolling that most people didn't notice, could still stay on topic ... but man it triggered some folks.
- nightshift1 10mo agoslow news is good news i guess.
- euroderf 10mo agoKeeping track of "-ize" versus "-ise" is a PITA, mainly because (a) American English uses both, altho not interchangeably, and (b) on teh interwebz there's always an inconsistent grab bag of dialectical usage. For those reasons I for one have settled on "-ise". My 0,02€, ymmv
- jameshush 10mo agoI'm Canadian. My parents are British. I always thought we spelt all words the same until now
- hamonrye 10mo ago[dead]