4 ms·

I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much; If I’m going out for coffee I prefer places where I

by bix6 11mo ago

I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much; If I’m going out for coffee I prefer places where I know the baristas so I get to feel like a part of my community.

oersted 11mo ago
> robotic baristas Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. It’s not a particularly skilled job for a human to do, besides the customer service aspect of course, perhaps I am ignorant in that regard. Indeed, coming from Spain, I don’t really see the lady as a barista, she is the classic bartender that listens to you and knows everybody. Except the bar is open throughout the day, is family friendly, sells all kinds besides alcohol (breakfast, coffee, tobacco, lunch, dinner, newspapers, lottery tickets, snacks and sweets…), and generally acts as the social nexus of the neighborhood. These old school small bars are everywhere in southern EU. Within that context it is less surprising that she would stay working there as long as she physically could.
- pezezin 11mo ago
  I am also Spanish, living in Japan, and our bars is one the things I miss the most. Seriously, you don't realize how amazing Spanish bars are until you don't have them. Here I just stop by a konbini, grab a can coffee and a plastic-wrapped sandwich, and off I go. There is no social nexus, and no neighbourhood for that matter. It's depressing.
  - anthk 11mo ago
    Weren't the Izakaya's close to a Spanish bar?
    - pezezin 11mo ago
      Izakaya usually only open for dinner, maybe lunch, but definitely not breakfast. Many of them also offer private rooms, which is the complete opposite of the social aspect of Spanish bars...
  - johngossman 11mo ago
    Not to mention that a lot of Japanese cafes don't open until late morning or early afternoon.
  - BobBagwill 11mo ago
    When I was teaching in Ube, Japan in 1979, there was a great jazz music coffee bar. The entire wall behind the counter was covered with jazz LP's. They had huge speakers, a massive turntable, and a McIntosh amp. You would go in, pick an album and order coffee. The counter was lined with vacuum coffee makers. The barista would grind your choice of bean and fire up the coffee alembic. The boiling water would erupt into the upper chamber, brew a while, then magically get sucked down into the bottom carafe when he took it off the flame. You could drink at the counter or go to a table. I didn't look like a beatnik, but I felt like one! Cool, daddio.
    - pezezin 11mo ago
      I am pretty sure that it was insanely cool and I would love to visit a place like that, but it is not the kind of bars we are talking about...
- Sohcahtoa82 11mo ago
  > Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. I have yet to see a high-quality one. I've been at two offices that have automated espresso machines. They'll make something that's labeled as a "Latte", but it's just coffee with powdered milk.
  - oersted 11mo ago
    You are right that most are not very good, but it's more because of business reasons than technical ones. It's more costly and bulky to keep remote coffee machines supplied with fresh milk or cream, as well as other extras, and keep it all well refrigerated. Most people do not seem to be ready to pay extra for it. But a robot barista in a coffee shop would end up being exactly like normal coffee machines that have been around forever, perhaps just a bit higher-end than an office one. It's not really an idea like OP was implying.
  - camtarn 11mo ago
    I've had a coffee from a high end bean to cup machines, installed in a conference room at our vebdor's headquarters, which used fresh milk and made a better cappuccino than I've had from real humans at many chain coffee shops. They might be rare, but they're out there.
kulahan 11mo ago
There are a couple stores around me run by small families, and honestly sometimes I feel like I'm halfway to being part of their family when I visit. They recognize me, greet me by name, and start firing up my order right away. Or they ask me how I'm doing and I do the same, but it goes deeper than "good, you?" - I'm learning currently about how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again. I'm praying for 'em every day pretty much. We share recipes, stores, etc. We will rue every decision we make to remove humans from interactions imo.
- spike021 11mo ago
  I've started regularly visiting a couple coffee shops in Tokyo whenever I go there and I'm on first name basis with the owners/managers, whereas if I go to the same shops in the SF Bay Area more regularly it's rare that anyone recognizes me. I definitely prefer that neighborhood coffee shop feel and at least shops I go to near home don't have that. Even the smaller ones with similar amounts of business and number of employees as the ones in Tokyo.
- martin_a 11mo ago
  > how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again Get us in, how is it going so far? :-D
  - kulahan 11mo ago
    I’ll update you as soon as I find out! He JUST signed the lease. Haha
bamboozled 11mo ago
This is right, coffee is a lot about people and interaction. It's about being around people.
Incipient 11mo ago
I feel like there are definitely two types of people that are after coffee - the morning commute people that need caffeine, and just want it fast. They'd not notice a machine doing it for them (and a lot of them would have a machine at home!) The other group is like you and I, where we like engaging with the community. I suppose three - the Starbucks crew that do it for 'likes'.
- divbzero 11mo ago
  Even for morning commute people who need caffeine, getting to chat with a human beats having a machine to do it.
- siavosh 11mo ago
  I’m obviously out of touch. What do these starbucks people do exactly.
  - sho_hn 11mo ago
    Order the special drink of the week/month and pose with it on socials. Think your Pumpkin Spice Latte season.
    - tokioyoyo 11mo ago
      I have a feeling that most people imagine this. But this doesn’t sound like on the ground reality for me? Here in Tokyo, most people I’ve seen just grab brewed coffee or the usual espresso drinks and go on with their lives. When I lives in Toronto/Vancouver, that’s what I experienced over there as well. Used to frequent one down the street as it was the cheapest brewed available coffee, and the regulars would always order their normal cups to go. It’s interesting to see these type of generalizations that I never experience in life. I’m not saying there’s no truth to it, as girls in my circles often talk about “oh, it’s PSL season, I wanna go!”. But it’s hard to believe that all of their customers go for the special drinks.
      - sho_hn 11mo ago
alephnerd 11mo ago
> I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much... How do they save costs? Their operating cost doesn't beat gas station coffee, and the margins needed to service them end up pricing them the same as human barista coffee. Automation only works if it helps reduce your COGS, not increase it, and for a product like coffee with already paper thin margins, the cost of servicing a robotic barista ends up not being much different from hiring 2-3 part time baristas while providing a subpar product.
gyomu 11mo ago
> you might save on costs but you give up so much Modern society, and the push to optimize every single thing that can be measured, in a nutshell.
- sho_hn 11mo ago
  Nobody is rolling these out to optimize anything. Robotic baristas - I'm assuming the OP is referring to those 6dof robot arm deployments - are largely novelty or luxury items meant to catch attention. You either see them in touristy areas trying to attract the Instagram crowd, or (increasingly now, after the novelty is starting to wear of) in corporate lobbies trying to impress.
hippo22 11mo ago
I used to feel the same way, but, then I find it weird that the barista has to be there. I get the sense that some people use them almost like a free therapist since they have a captive audience.
- smcin 11mo ago
  It's an interesting sidebar discussion what are cultural norms on social interaction vs using someone like a free therapist. I guess consent to whatever topic, equal airtime, not saying inappropriate things, not slowing down their work.
jimbokun 11mo ago
At that point just make your coffee at home.
MrDresden 11mo ago
A local roasters recently opened up a cafe (again, they had one but lost their space some years ago). Having only been there three times now, each time I've gotten into long conversations about technique and equipment with the baristas. Is it possible to have a robot pour as good a filter or pull as good a shot? Probably. But I don't go to cafés just for that.
Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
Those already exist though, coffee machines have been around for decades. Granted, most of them won't make you a neat milk leaf or tree or whatever, but how important is that to you?

by bix6 11mo ago

oersted 11mo ago

> robotic baristas Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. It’s not a particularly skilled job for a human to do, besides the customer service aspect of course, perhaps I am ignorant in that regard. Indeed, coming from Spain, I don’t really see the lady as a barista, she is the classic bartender that listens to you and knows everybody. Except the bar is open throughout the day, is family friendly, sells all kinds besides alcohol (breakfast, coffee, tobacco, lunch, dinner, newspapers, lottery tickets, snacks and sweets…), and generally acts as the social nexus of the neighborhood. These old school small bars are everywhere in southern EU. Within that context it is less surprising that she would stay working there as long as she physically could.

pezezin 11mo ago
I am also Spanish, living in Japan, and our bars is one the things I miss the most. Seriously, you don't realize how amazing Spanish bars are until you don't have them. Here I just stop by a konbini, grab a can coffee and a plastic-wrapped sandwich, and off I go. There is no social nexus, and no neighbourhood for that matter. It's depressing.
- anthk 11mo ago
  Weren't the Izakaya's close to a Spanish bar?
  - pezezin 11mo ago
    Izakaya usually only open for dinner, maybe lunch, but definitely not breakfast. Many of them also offer private rooms, which is the complete opposite of the social aspect of Spanish bars...
- johngossman 11mo ago
  Not to mention that a lot of Japanese cafes don't open until late morning or early afternoon.
- BobBagwill 11mo ago
  When I was teaching in Ube, Japan in 1979, there was a great jazz music coffee bar. The entire wall behind the counter was covered with jazz LP's. They had huge speakers, a massive turntable, and a McIntosh amp. You would go in, pick an album and order coffee. The counter was lined with vacuum coffee makers. The barista would grind your choice of bean and fire up the coffee alembic. The boiling water would erupt into the upper chamber, brew a while, then magically get sucked down into the bottom carafe when he took it off the flame. You could drink at the counter or go to a table. I didn't look like a beatnik, but I felt like one! Cool, daddio.
  - pezezin 11mo ago
    I am pretty sure that it was insanely cool and I would love to visit a place like that, but it is not the kind of bars we are talking about...
Sohcahtoa82 11mo ago
> Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. I have yet to see a high-quality one. I've been at two offices that have automated espresso machines. They'll make something that's labeled as a "Latte", but it's just coffee with powdered milk.
- oersted 11mo ago
  You are right that most are not very good, but it's more because of business reasons than technical ones. It's more costly and bulky to keep remote coffee machines supplied with fresh milk or cream, as well as other extras, and keep it all well refrigerated. Most people do not seem to be ready to pay extra for it. But a robot barista in a coffee shop would end up being exactly like normal coffee machines that have been around forever, perhaps just a bit higher-end than an office one. It's not really an idea like OP was implying.
- camtarn 11mo ago
  I've had a coffee from a high end bean to cup machines, installed in a conference room at our vebdor's headquarters, which used fresh milk and made a better cappuccino than I've had from real humans at many chain coffee shops. They might be rare, but they're out there.

kulahan 11mo ago

There are a couple stores around me run by small families, and honestly sometimes I feel like I'm halfway to being part of their family when I visit. They recognize me, greet me by name, and start firing up my order right away. Or they ask me how I'm doing and I do the same, but it goes deeper than "good, you?" - I'm learning currently about how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again. I'm praying for 'em every day pretty much. We share recipes, stores, etc. We will rue every decision we make to remove humans from interactions imo.

spike021 11mo ago
I've started regularly visiting a couple coffee shops in Tokyo whenever I go there and I'm on first name basis with the owners/managers, whereas if I go to the same shops in the SF Bay Area more regularly it's rare that anyone recognizes me. I definitely prefer that neighborhood coffee shop feel and at least shops I go to near home don't have that. Even the smaller ones with similar amounts of business and number of employees as the ones in Tokyo.
martin_a 11mo ago
> how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again Get us in, how is it going so far? :-D
- kulahan 11mo ago
  I’ll update you as soon as I find out! He JUST signed the lease. Haha

bamboozled 11mo ago

This is right, coffee is a lot about people and interaction. It's about being around people.

Incipient 11mo ago

I feel like there are definitely two types of people that are after coffee - the morning commute people that need caffeine, and just want it fast. They'd not notice a machine doing it for them (and a lot of them would have a machine at home!) The other group is like you and I, where we like engaging with the community. I suppose three - the Starbucks crew that do it for 'likes'.

divbzero 11mo ago
Even for morning commute people who need caffeine, getting to chat with a human beats having a machine to do it.
siavosh 11mo ago
I’m obviously out of touch. What do these starbucks people do exactly.
- sho_hn 11mo ago
  Order the special drink of the week/month and pose with it on socials. Think your Pumpkin Spice Latte season.
  - tokioyoyo 11mo ago
    I have a feeling that most people imagine this. But this doesn’t sound like on the ground reality for me? Here in Tokyo, most people I’ve seen just grab brewed coffee or the usual espresso drinks and go on with their lives. When I lives in Toronto/Vancouver, that’s what I experienced over there as well. Used to frequent one down the street as it was the cheapest brewed available coffee, and the regulars would always order their normal cups to go. It’s interesting to see these type of generalizations that I never experience in life. I’m not saying there’s no truth to it, as girls in my circles often talk about “oh, it’s PSL season, I wanna go!”. But it’s hard to believe that all of their customers go for the special drinks.
    - sho_hn 11mo ago

alephnerd 11mo ago

> I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much... How do they save costs? Their operating cost doesn't beat gas station coffee, and the margins needed to service them end up pricing them the same as human barista coffee. Automation only works if it helps reduce your COGS, not increase it, and for a product like coffee with already paper thin margins, the cost of servicing a robotic barista ends up not being much different from hiring 2-3 part time baristas while providing a subpar product.

gyomu 11mo ago

> you might save on costs but you give up so much Modern society, and the push to optimize every single thing that can be measured, in a nutshell.

sho_hn 11mo ago
Nobody is rolling these out to optimize anything. Robotic baristas - I'm assuming the OP is referring to those 6dof robot arm deployments - are largely novelty or luxury items meant to catch attention. You either see them in touristy areas trying to attract the Instagram crowd, or (increasingly now, after the novelty is starting to wear of) in corporate lobbies trying to impress.

hippo22 11mo ago

I used to feel the same way, but, then I find it weird that the barista has to be there. I get the sense that some people use them almost like a free therapist since they have a captive audience.

smcin 11mo ago
It's an interesting sidebar discussion what are cultural norms on social interaction vs using someone like a free therapist. I guess consent to whatever topic, equal airtime, not saying inappropriate things, not slowing down their work.

jimbokun 11mo ago

At that point just make your coffee at home.

MrDresden 11mo ago

A local roasters recently opened up a cafe (again, they had one but lost their space some years ago). Having only been there three times now, each time I've gotten into long conversations about technique and equipment with the baristas. Is it possible to have a robot pour as good a filter or pull as good a shot? Probably. But I don't go to cafés just for that.

Cthulhu_ 11mo ago

Those already exist though, coffee machines have been around for decades. Granted, most of them won't make you a neat milk leaf or tree or whatever, but how important is that to you?