9 ms·
On chronic coffee consumption: "One meta-analysis found that RR coffee 0.757, RR caffeine 0.721 (12). Another one found RR 0.76, with an optimal protective effe
by k1musab1 10mo ago
On chronic coffee consumption: "One meta-analysis found that RR coffee 0.757, RR caffeine 0.721 (12). Another one found RR 0.76, with an optimal protective effect at ∼400 mL/day (13). In comparison to many drug treatments that have an effect size in this range, this is not a small effect size. A risk reduction of 20 to 25% is quite impressive."
As if I needed another reason to drink coffee.
- boothby 10mo agoOne thing I've learned over the years is that specifically setting out to enjoy and appreciate something on a daily basis is beneficial to overall satisfaction with life. And for me, that's my morning cuppa before the rest of the house wakes up. Is it (just) the coffee or is it (also) the rituals surrounding coffee?
- reactordev 10mo agoIt’s 100% the addiction. It’s ok, me too. At home I’m a 4-6 cup a day drinker. On the go 2-3 Starbucks. I have a serious problem.
- lanfeust6 10mo agoNot necessarily. I only have one cup in the morning, that's it, but I enjoy it just the same so long as the beans are good and it's done right.
- mrmincent 10mo agoThat was me too. Turns out I was just self-medicating for adhd. I still skip the meds on the weekend so I can enjoy larger quantities of coffee.
- Muromec 10mo agoI'm not gonna lie, double espresso with ritalin before work is pretty good too. It's the T+2 date which is uncool.
- reactordev 10mo agoThat’s the ritalin. Find a healthier alternative like an energy bar with that double espresso. I find if I stack too much at once, I crash. One cup in the morning when I wake up. One before work right before the meetings. One in the afternoon to keep me fueled until dinner where I let myself gorge on protein and sugars until I crash.
- quaverquaver 10mo agosuggest many many cups of 1/3 caffeinated and 2/3 decaf. There are some observed health benefits to even decaf coffee... and its got potassium besides. I drink around 10 of these. lower longer peak. Joy!
- nurettin 10mo agoRitalin is a highly addictive substance that wrecks you, your life and the life of everyone around. Unfortunate that we have one in family.
- dotancohen 10mo agoAs a parent, tell me more. I have not yet heard this side of the coin.
- zrm 10mo agoRitalin is a chemical relative of amphetamine. In prescribed amounts it's often an effective treatment. In recreational amounts, ask your doctor about ΔFosB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSB#DeltaFosB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSB#DeltaFosB
- dotancohen 10mo agoI was unaware that Ritalin is used as a recreational drug.
- 10mo ago
- brailsafe 10mo agoSame. During the week on meds I find that drinking more than half a litre just provokes unpleasant sweating and makes me feel frantic, some amount of brain fog and occasionally a mild headache, especially if I haven't been chugging water, which I guess is probably what most normal people get from coffee
- boothby 10mo agoWell, that's a bit of an unfair projection; I'm fairly fastidious about keeping my consumption around 2-3 cups a day before 11am and taking occasional tolerance breaks without consequence. But if you feel like your coffee intake is a problem that you have trouble controlling, maybe cut back.
- reactordev 10mo agoIt’s my wallet that is angry, my brain still wants more.
- runlaszlorun 10mo agoI switched to the cheap stuff and now my palate is angry...
- enlyth 10mo agoPeople act like addiction is a word with an inherent negative connotation, but that's not the case, you can totally be addicted to healthy behaviours
- rubatuga 10mo agoYou're confused about the definition of addiction... breathing is an addiction too by your logic
- luqtas 10mo agodon't be silly. next stop is to reduce pooping. but yeah, exercising can be an addiction? as sex. now doing these daily is fine. it turns into addiction when you can't stop or interfere negatively with your routine
- petercooper 10mo agoSeems to fall into the difference between "addiction" when used as a common, everyday word, and the alternative medical meaning.
- rubatuga 10mo agoAh, I am a bit biased to the medical meaning
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- standardUser 10mo agoAddiction to any given substance is highly variable from person to person, and there's a lot of data to back that up. I recall a friend describing their struggle to quit caffeine, which I mocked at first, until I realized it sounded exactly like my brutal struggle to quit nicotine. Yet, plenty of people quit cigarettes effortlessly. Nicotine is one of the most variable, but caffeine, alcohol and cocaine vary widely too. I imagine we'd find this is the case for most substances if we had the data. In a sane world, we'd give every kid their addiction predisposition profile when they turn 13.
- reactordev 10mo agoThe hardest part of quitting anything is changing the behavioral habits that came with it. For smoking, I bet you have the urge after a meal to smoke. Maybe you’re triggered when you drive long distances to “calm the nerves”. The issue is those triggers, those behaviors, need to be unlearned before you can attempt to quit. That’s why it’s easy for people who haven’t developed those behavioral habits and hard a hell for those who have. Former smoker myself so I totally get it. I can give that up, but caffeine - coffee? I’ll die with a cup on the counter half full.
- standardUser 10mo agoThe literature on this is clear cut. People absorb, metabolize and experience drugs differently, which has a big impact on how addiction takes hold. It's obviously not the only factor! But it's a big one and somewhat quantifiable. Personally, I wasn't a "trigger" smoker, I was an "every chance I got smoker". I assume my nicotine metabolism is higher than average, which is linked to frequency of consumption and hence propensity for addiction. I also assume I have fast caffeine metabolism since I consume it at all hours with no consequence, but unlike nicotine that's linked to a lower propensity for addiction, which matches my experience.
- superkuh 10mo agoCaffeine is not chemically addictive. It can lead to depedency but that is not addiction. Motivation and wanting are not altered but unpleasant withdrawl effects can occur.
- tayo42 10mo agoHow do you explain the headaches and exhaustion durring withdrawal then?
- alexey-salmin 10mo agoThat's just how life feels without caffeine, not a withdrawal effect.
- superkuh 10mo agoThat's called chemical dependence and it's the point I'm trying to make. Dependence is not addiction. Addiction means wanting is hijacked, not that stopping is aversive. Addiction and dependence have real medical meanings and in the context of this discussion and we shouldn't mix them up. See this very short and to the point lancet medical journal summary, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(2300230-4/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0... >Addiction (synonymous with substance use disorder), as defined by the DSM-5, entails compulsive use, craving, and impaired control over drug taking in addition to physical dependence. The vast majority of patients taking medications such as opioids and benzodiazepines are doing so as prescribed by clinicians, with only 1·5% of people taking benzodiazepine being addicted, for example. Physical dependence is much more common than addiction. Importantly, withdrawal effects occur irrespective of whether these drugs are taken as prescribed or misused. >Failure to distinguish between addiction and physical dependence can have real-life consequences. People who have difficulty stopping their medications because of withdrawal effects can be accused of addiction or misuse. Misdiagnosis of physical dependence as addiction can also lead to inappropriate management, including referral to 12-step addiction-based detoxification and rehabilitation centres, focusing on psychological aspects of harmful use rather than the physiology of withdrawal. >It should be made clear that dependence is not the same as addiction. The problems with prescribed drug dependence are not restricted to the small minority who are misusing or addicted to these drugs, but to the wider population who are physically dependent on and might not be able easily to stop their medications because of withdrawal effects. Antidepressants (superkuh note: and caffeine) should be categorised with other drugs that cause withdrawal syndromes as dependence-forming medications, while noting that they do not cause addiction.
- markus_zhang 10mo agoI don't want to get too deep into caffeine addiction so I drink mostly decaffeinated coffee. Am I just cheating myself?
- reactordev 10mo agoNo, there’s benefits from drinking coffee whether it’s caffeinated or not.
- markus_zhang 10mo agoAh, it’s good to know that. Unfortunately my stomach feels a bit weird after too much coffee. Wish I could drink more.
- amelius 10mo ago> Starbucks By the way, why does Starbucks make such bad cappuccinos? The milk is foamy instead of creamy. There is no heart shape or any shape really. And the entire beverage is too hot.
- reactordev 10mo agoBlame the barista. The quality has gone down significantly over the last decade. It’s either a tall in a venti cup. A flat white when it should be a white mocha. Or a mocha. In the end, it’s still a quick service restaurant. Training is an expense. Now they just press buttons. If my local cafe could deliver me coffee that would be great, until then I’m short on time and hit the drive thru. Say this next time: “Cappuccino, whole milk, no foam” and see what they do.
- amelius 10mo agoYeah, one problem is that the person who takes the order is not the person who brews the coffee.
- pton_xd 10mo agoI also enjoy my morning ritual of preparing the grinds and brewing a fresh pot. But I'll be honest, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter where I get it -- brunch at a nice restaurant, Starbucks, McDonalds, a cheap hotel buffet, lukewarm from a flight attendant ... as long as I get it. Sounds healthy, right?! ;)
- pentaphobe 10mo agoI've always associated this sort of life satisfaction & ritual spectrum with Zen "no-mind" [^1] Whether it's coffee ritual, or doing dishes there's something pretty magical about the quiet flow state of engaging with the moment [^1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-mind
- dustbunny 10mo agoI used to have withdrawal symptoms when I didn't have coffee, now I don't have those. But yes, the alone time in the morning is critical for me.
- RobRivera 10mo agoAh yes, the Twin Peaks method
- Desafinado 10mo agoMy wife and I don't drink caffeine anymore but still have a swiss water decaf coffee every morning. The caffeine aspect is completely unnecessary, but coffee still tastes good, warm drinks are still nice. It's all the ritual.
- ycombinete 10mo agoIs it the addictive substance or the ritual I created around it? I used to think this same thing, that my enjoyment of coffee was largely the ritual. But then I switched to decaf for quite a long time and all my little rituals fell away quite quickly. I still occasionally drank coffee when I felt like the taste, but I certainly wasn’t performing daily morning ritual.
- erikrothoff 10mo agoI’ve switched to decaf full time and a my generalised anxiety basically went away. I love coffee and still drink it ritualistically. I probably drink more coffee now, at all hours of the day (caffeinated coffee after 12 really messed my sleep). Also once per week I allow myself an espresso, and I get a nice buzz from it that lasts the entire day.
- ycombinete 10mo agoThat’s cool. I’d like to quit again sometime but right now caffeine staves off migraines for me. And with a baby in the house I really don’t have the resources for that battle.
- strogonoff 10mo agoWhen(ever) I quit coffee, I got strong migraines after a day or so. However, they subside and go away after a few more days. I wouldn’t claim it works the same way for everyone, but the difference between coffee being a treatment for migraines and migraines being a symptom of coffee withdrawal may be indistinguishable in immediate term.
- ycombinete 10mo agoAh yes. I do get those, but also just get migraines (as well as hypnic headaches) which caffeine is a wonder at ameliorating. I quit caffeine for about 2 years and the headaches never subsided (except the caffeine withdrawal ones of course). They are just a fact of my life I’m afraid. As much as I’d like to get off of caffeine I am very grateful to have is as a remedy.
- pauletienney 10mo agoFather of three here. I also enjoy very much this moment of the day, the calm before the storm. It was a real motivation to wake up a bit earlier. One day, I decided to stop coffee for some weeks. My motivation to wake up before my kids vanished in a few days. I was quite surprised since it used to be a real pleasure. I guess the ritual part was much less important than the coffee chemical role. I got back to coffe quite rapidly.
- baxtr 10mo agoFor me, it’s the reward after the storm – once everyone has gone I sit there and enjoy my coffee.
- dotancohen 10mo agoDid you just remove the warm drink part of the ritual or did you replace the coffee with another warm drink? This could be the big difference you were missing.
- teekert 10mo agoThis is the big question in this comment indeed
- shevy-java 10mo agoOne could say the same about any drug. :D I try to not let taste or smell overrule other decisions made by my brain. Of course it is so visceral that one can not escape it; some stinky fish challenges show how powerful smell is. Some people can not control their body's reactions to bad smell.
- carlmr 10mo ago>enjoy and appreciate something on a daily basis is beneficial to overall satisfaction with life. I'll couch this in a warning that you need to have the money for it, but for me an espresso machine and good grinder was such a great investment. It's this thing I appreciate a lot every day. If you're a drip coffee person I guess this won't apply and you can save a few thousand. Although I'd still recommend getting a grinder (not necessarily an expensive espresso worthy one) and good beans then.
- nobodyandproud 10mo agoDrip coffee is amazing: A consistent grinder; fresh, light or medium roasted beans protected from oxidation; and a machine that heats the water to the correct brew temperature (190-195 F)is all you need. The flavor profiles are akin to wines; no decanting required. Extremely enjoyable in the early morning moments.
- port11 10mo agoEspresso is my soft spot given my origins, but a good drip on paper filters (to remove some oils and cholesterol) is akin to good tea, full of aromatics. I disagree with the temperature, for me a blonde roast calls for 72 degrees Celsius (162F).
- nobodyandproud 10mo agoTo be accurate, I should qualify that for me it’s “light/medium” and not a true blonde roast. I haven’t had the pleasure of trying to brew my own blonde roast yet. But I was amazed when I first tried a black coffee brewed properly, and it took me far longer than I want to admit to learn the basic nuances; it was a very fun journey though.
- port11 10mo agoExactly, and a lot of people that don't like black coffee never had a solid experience: a cup full of aromatics — like tea — instead of just burnt, bitter, over-heated slurry.
- amelius 10mo agoCoffee in the morning is especially good because it induces bowel movements. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/30/well/eat/why-does-coffee-make-you-poop.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/30/well/eat/why-does-coffee-...
- pr3dr49 10mo agoIt's the only time of the day that's mine. Morning coffee and me. Silence, taste, and treasured bouquet. Sanctuary. The last 20th century vice. It's mine.
- lovestory 10mo agoThe problem is, most Americans don't drink coffee, they drink sugary mix with coffee flavor
- Aurornis 10mo agoOne thing you learn from reading depression papers is that there are a lot of things that supposedly have significant effects on depression according to some papers, but then fail to work when people try them or they’re tested in trials. The linked paper is pretty obvious AI paper mill content, so I wouldn’t take anything it says as directly true without checking citations. The citation is a meta-analysis so you’d have to check the criteria and the studies. The most common explanation for the “everything treats depression” result is inclusion of studies that have no control group. The placebo response rate in depression studies is very high as many patients revert to the mean of being not-super-depressed after they are so depressed that they enroll in a study for depression treatments. Paper writers seeking a positive result will abuse this to their benefit by omitting the control group. They’ll collect depressed patients, give them some treatment, and when the average improves they’ll publish a paper saying that the treatment has positive effects in depression. So after reading a lot of papers about depression, you start dismissing claims by default unless you can confirm they came from a properly powered, placebo-controlled, double-blind study. But hey, if you’re already drinking coffee and enjoying it, continue to enjoy it!
- pinkmuffinere 10mo agoI don’t have hard data, but I think this optimal value is very closely approximated by coffee drinkers’ daily average. 400 ml is about 1.75 cups, and i think the normal distribution of coffee cups among drinkers is centered at ~2 cups. Makes me wonder if we’re all self medicating and accidentally finding the sweet spot.
- spookie 10mo agoWell, that's the hardest data of all!
- gloomyday 10mo agoOR it could be that we find the sweet spot because it's the spot we feel the best.
- mettamage 10mo agoHmm to feel a bit elevated makes sense. I also have that with one glass of alcohol at certain times. Heart rate goes up, things get a bit more intense. It's a nice vibe if you're open to it. It's also a bit subtle. For me what I've noticed: 2 cups hits the spot, but I always tend to drink more, around 4 cups. On the 3rd cup my mind gets jittery. It's not so much my body or anything and I don't experience the jitters strongly but at the same time I feel a stronger focus while noticing that stronger focus isn't getting anything extra done. Hence I call it mind jitters. But I can imagine that at 2 cups people are genuinely just a bit elevated in certain ways.
- gsf_emergency_6 10mo agoHow about a reason to cycle your coffee :) https://rouvy.com/blog/caffeine-in-cycling https://rouvy.com/blog/caffeine-in-cycling Caffeine periodization in cycling: the science behind performance (2025)
- alecco 10mo agoIMHO Coffee is way too strong for most of us. Sipping green tea gives a smooth subtle high all day. And you can sleep at night. And not be an angry/anxious bastard.
- herbst 10mo agoI love coffee, I take 100mg L-theanin daily so my body tolerates it. Basically best of both worlds.
- mettamage 10mo agoYea high quality Japanese green tea has been my go to. Unfortunately, I'm addicted to coffee. Thank god I'm also lightly addicted to living frugally and that is currently winning out. Black tea for 20 bags for 35 cents it is.
- alecco 10mo agoDecaf beans improved significantly in the past few years.
- shevy-java 10mo ago> As if I needed another reason to drink coffee. I tried it but coffee to me just tastes horribly bad. Chocolate on the other hand can be quite great (there is also a lot of horrible chocolate, but good chocolate has a better taste to me than coffee.)
- spicyusername 10mo agoHow were you drinking it? Espresso with steamed milk, sugar, and flavored syrup is quite a treat. Drip, black, is going to be quite... utilitarian.
- candiddevmike 10mo agoIf by utilitarian you mean delicious, yes
- realo 10mo agoAn espresso is about 30 ml of liquid... I am not sure this mixture of milk and sugar (and more sugar!) into 30 ml can still be called a "coffee" , but i'm sure it is a delicious beverage!
- subscribed 10mo agoMilk, sugar, syrup, and additional flavour? Might as well have a cake if you need to mask the flavour so much :)
- realo 10mo agoI like espresso-style coffee. Over the years i discovered that the very best espresso shots do have a rather strong chocolate note. No acidity, no bitterness. Unfortunately I also found out that it is basically impossible to get that kind of quality from coffee shops. You must make it yourself, have the right equipment (the grinder is the most important one) and a lot of practice. Then you might have one in 10 god shots... but you taste it... you immediately recognize it.
- k1musab1 10mo ago