8 ms·

The Free Software Foundation Europe deleted its account on X

158 points by latexr 11mo ago

mac-attack 11mo ago
Good on them. It always feels like " But other than that, Mrs Lincoln enjoyed the play" watching people rationalize why they are still on Twitter or use Grok
- stronglikedan 11mo ago
  why would anyone need to rationalize it? they're still two of the best platforms in their respective silos. most people don't care about drama and virtue signaling
  - adamwong246 11mo ago
    Only one rationalization is need- Musk is evil. If you are still using Twitter, as far as I am concerned, you in league with him. You might as well just put on a MAGA hat.
rvz 11mo ago
> What initially intended to be a place for dialogue and information exchange has turned into a centralised arena of hostility, misinformation, and profit-driven control, far removed from the ideals of freedom we stand for. Always has been.
- doener 11mo ago
  It got more deliberately manipulative with pushing a right wing agenda.
  - GaryBluto 11mo ago
    It became more obviously manipulative when it started pushing a right wing agenda.
- baiwl 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - orwin 11mo ago
    Thread is less political overall and have exactly the same issue, it not about political side imho, it's about engagement and the new algorithms. I follow someone who used to use Twitter to update on his projects, 2 years ago he received a few hundred times more engagement for dunking on flat earthers than for pushing his video on Maxwell. He decided to stop. More engagement for controversy was always the algorithm, but it was two orders of magnitude lower a decade ago.
- orwin 11mo ago
  The issue is the new algorithm I think. It's the same on thread. You're more likely to get a view by responding to outrage bait than by promoting your own work, while before it was 50/50: responding to bait was great to reach a new audience, but for people who already followed you, you could still reach them by posting 'normally'. Do you follow any content creator anywhere? Before 2019, you basically _had_ to be on Twitter to follow updates. Then the media diversified, but by 2023, even people still on X will rather use discord to have update on content creator they follow (or, weirdly, Instagram it seems? At least my favourite vulgarisation content creator seems to think so)
rustaceanU32 11mo ago
It's a good idea to leave X, considering the values of the Free Software Foundation and how they don't exactly align with X's profit-driven model, and the spread of internet garbage.
- F3nd0 11mo ago
  I think either leaving a hostile platform or staying to promote ideas which run against it are reasonable choices. But what the article doesn't say is why they (as an organisation whose mission is to protect and promote free software) should choose to leave now, when from what I know, Twitter has always been a non-free, profit-driven network.
- zvr 11mo ago
  Actually the announcement is by the Free Software Foundation Europe, an organization that empowers users to control technology.
guywithahat 11mo ago
Except now the just have less reach? I didn't follow them, so perhaps they had 10 followers and no reach to begin with, but this seems foolish if you have a mission you care about.
- scottyah 11mo ago
  Exactly, seems like the people on X are exactly the people whose minds they should be trying to change.
- registeredcorn 11mo ago
  I found myself wondering the same thing. Do they genuinely expect people who have never heard about FSFE to be using a decentralized social platform? That sounds scary. Normal people don't use scary sounding things. They're certainly welcome to do whatever they think is right, and it sounds more "on brand" for them, but it seems ridiculous to say something like "[Using Twitter was] important for reaching members of society who were not active in our preferred spaces for interaction." but then end with "Follow the FSFE on Mastodon and Peertube!" I am very tech literate and I've never even heard of Peertube. There is very little chance they are ever going to reach even a single set of ears this way. At that point, they might as well just send random fliers in the mail to strangers.
0xcb0 11mo ago
I congratulate you to that decision. Twitter is really a breeding ground for racism and hate. Nobody should be on that platform.
- GaryBluto 11mo ago
  Why does everybody I see complaining about modern Twitter say the exact phrase "Nobody should be on that platform."? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point, just curious if there was some manifesto going around or if everybody suddenly started using the same phrase. Is it just me or have people started using the same phrases more often and faster than before? Reminds me of when everybody started saying "God forbid" a few months ago.
  - davidw 11mo ago
    I don't know about the phrase, but I share the sentiment. The owner is a racist promoting racist things. It's not a 'public square' because he controls the algorithm, so it'll never be a 'fair fight' for those who disagree with him.
    - jsheard 11mo ago
      Paying users are also explicitly given priority in the reply section, which naturally hands a megaphone to the type of user that is more willing to give money to Elon Musk and wear the "I gave money to Elon Musk" badge.
  - GoblinSlayer 11mo ago
    It's a straightforward solution to the monopoly problem.
  - HtmlProgrammer 11mo ago
    We want X to exist to contain these people. The same situation applies to League of Legends and their wonderfully toxic player base
  - jedimastert 11mo ago
throw0101d 11mo ago
While I'm not against people not-using Twitter/X (or any other platform): would it have been better to keep the account as a 'placeholder' so no one else can grab it? Have a post saying "We do not monitor this account." or some such?
- conartist6 11mo ago
  Why help Twitter be a safer more trustworthy platform when Twitter doesn't seem to want to be a safe or trustworthy platform?
- catapart 11mo ago
  You only need a placeholder if you think the platform matters enough to hold space for. For example: they don't have a placeholder on MySpace. But if your goal is to prevent other people from having the name altogether, the move I personally enjoyed engaging in was getting my account blocked. That forces them to hold your account only to prevent anyone from using it, lest you might sneak back in and say something "harmful" like "stonetoss is hans kristian graebener".
  - GaryBluto 11mo ago
    > the move I personally enjoyed engaging in was getting my account blocked. So you think the FSF should've used the account representing them to troll?
    - Xylakant 11mo ago
      Haven't tested lately, but at least for a while you could get your account blocked by publicly suggesting people follow you some other place.
      - jayknight 11mo ago
        I made my account private and put my bsky address in my profile, so that doesn't appear to be an insta ban.
scottyah 11mo ago
That's a lot of words with not a lot of substance. I suppose their whole identity is announcing that they're superior to other people and branching off, while asking for money for what looks like mostly sending people to talk at events (which are probably mostly more fundraising). > "In the current situation we see ourselves unable to collaborate both with the FSF and any other organisation[sic] in which Richard Stallman has a leading position." I do wish more people would try to fix things from the inside, and I get there's a point where it's no longer possible, but in this case it sounds like they didn't like people calling them out on X and had no way to control the narrative. What other gain would there be for a group trying to spread information in as many channels as possible?
- n4r9 11mo ago
  What strategies could FSF employ to "fix things from the inside" on Twitter?
  - scottyah 11mo ago
    Talk openly and transparently with whomever is not aligning with their ideals. They used to call it discussion.
    - catapart 11mo ago
      lol imagine thinking you can discuss a hopped up ket-head into "aligning with your ideals".
      - scottyah 11mo ago
        it's the town square- it's not about the two people talking but for everyone reading what they said instead of controlling the narrative by only speaking to people you want in places you want. They don't even have to answer to everyone, so the only benefit of losing access to thousands/millions of people is to make an article like this for Pride.
        11mo ago
jrm4 11mo ago
Bad idea. Love it or hate it, Twitter (yeah, I choose to be stubborn here) is still probably overwhelmingly the most impactful platform in this way. While I respect the idea of the "boycott" in the abstract, perhaps the most wrong thing people think about it is "Because it's controlled by so-and-so, everyone who uses it is brainwashed and it's impossible to do good there." Nope. Look, a lot of good people are still there. I personally also wish they would all leave and we all go elsewhere -- but that's not the present reality. As such, people who insist that you must leave and no good can happen through staying ring the same to me as "IF SO AND SO GETS ELECTED IM LEAVING THE COUNTRY."
- m-hodges 11mo ago
  Pretending you’re going to emigrate from your home country is not similar to actually logging off from a website you hate.
- yokoprime 11mo ago
  I don’t think leaving a platform you don’t enjoy has much, if anything, in common with physically relocating. I left X, but I have an account i use to log in about once a week to see if there’s anything worth while. I haven’t really found an alternative to X, things are fragmented now. Where I used to be able to follow most people I were interested in on Twitter, i now have some on bluesky, some on mastodon, some still on X, a bunch at instagram and YouTube… it’s a mess
  - jrm4 11mo ago
    The parallel I'm drawing here is that a lot of people threaten that when they don't really mean it, and more specifically, don't seem to think about why others don't. I still have people there, so I will stick around.
  - GoblinSlayer 11mo ago
    Wasn't it supposed as a feature of mastodon when people are on different servers and you can integrate them email style?
- 11mo ago
quotemstr 11mo ago
Note the word "Europe": > In the current situation we see ourselves unable to collaborate both with the FSF and any other organisation in which Richard Stallman has a leading position https://fsfe.org/about/fsfnetwork.html https://fsfe.org/about/fsfnetwork.html These guys are entitled to use or avoid any social media platform they want. I'm entitled, as well, to judge them for putting purity tests in unrelated domains above their commitment to free software and thereby rendering themselves ineffective in their primary mission. Irrelevance is their choice. That said, there's a transparency consideration. Doesn't Europe have laws about charities having to use donor funds to advance the ostensible purpose of the charity? Matthias Kirschner is FSFE president and a full time employee. Do FSFE's donors know the FSFE is making itself less effective towards its mission of promoting free software by avoiding people who the FSFE leadership team dislike for reasons unrelated to free software? If they want to do this stuff, they should put it in their charter.
- aniviacat 11mo ago
  I don't see how they would be any more transparent about it.
- lukeschlather 11mo ago
  If you ever run a large organization you will quickly find there are lots of people you are unable to cooperate with for reasons unrelated to your organization's primary mission. Especially in a nonprofit, the primary thing for being effective in your mission is having people who want to work together, if you have people who can't stand each other you're not going to be effective.
  - bgwalter 11mo ago
    That is not true. The libertarian free-speech FSF(E) was way more effective in 2000 than it is now. All these organizations have been infiltrated by career bureaucrats who have their pet political wedge issues and bite away everyone else. Of course they are silent on the really big issues. They would ban Stallman but not go after Epstein's real friends. And that is in a nutshell how these political pseudo movements differ from the real political movements at the end of the sixties. At that time they were not afraid of going after the big guys.
HtmlProgrammer 11mo ago
There are plenty of people who love FOSS and terminally on X. Yes they are crazy, paranoid and racist but thats cutting off one of your key markets lol
- add-sub-mul-div 11mo ago
  You can either be a leader or a follower.
- adamwong246 11mo ago
  Perhaps, but of all people, FOSS devotees should know why Twitter needs to die. The fact that so many people remain on the platform is disheartening to say the least. How bad does it have to get before you refuse to take part?
- tkel 11mo ago
  Well then it's a good thing the FSFE isn't selling commodities on the "market"
pinkhairew 11mo ago
[flagged]
fpauser 11mo ago
What is X?
- throwawaydec4 11mo ago
  The new name for Twitter, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter#Since_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter#Since_2022
natch 11mo ago
I see more hate and misinformation on Mastodon than I see on X. Here is a very mild one: [edit: link removed; I don't want to promote that guy but to give the gist he was saying that people who believe in free speech are trash, targeting X users with hate. Mastodon is absolutely saturated with this.] Most of the criticism I see of X seems completely made up out of malice or is regurgitation of things other poorly informed or resentful people have said. The supposed FSF in Europe should post links to the sections of the open source algorithm they claim to be criticizing, and show us their PR.
- kettlecorn 11mo ago
  My criticism of X is primarily rooted in 2 things: the massive degradation of my experience using the platform and a distrust that Musk wouldn't use the platform to manipulate public opinion to achieve political goals. On the first point the simplest thing is I used to report people who use overt slurs or anti-semitic language. When Musk took over it started taking months for them to follow up and the response was simply to lock the account until they deleted the offending tweet. Eventually when I would report those people X just switched to saying they weren't breaking the rules. Now the replies of tons of seemingly normal posts that get lots of visibility are full of vile people trying to derail conversation with racism or anti-semitism. Another big problem is the way that blue-check accounts are boosted has incentivized every account to act like click-bait all the time. Whenever a post gets semi-viral the blue-check replies are artificially lifted to the top and most of them are totally worthless because the commenters are just trying to 'grab space' so people click their profile and follow them. It used to be that if big accounts posted something interesting you might see a bunch of interesting follow up replies. Now it's spammers at the top and then racists / crazies mixed in with more thoughtful replies if you scroll down a few pages past the blue-checks. It used to be that the algorithmic feed would surface me all sorts of interesting and novel work from people across the tech world but now there's a whole category of people trying to make every single Tweet viral enough to get payouts. And then there's Musk himself. He's ordered the algorithm to be manipulated to boost himself more. He's clearly expressed discontent when the algorithm doesn't work the way he wants, he's meddled heavily in the platform's AI bot to make it say things Musk prefers, and he's been rather unscrupulous chasing his political goals. I think it's not unlikely he'd use the platform to guide public opinion, perhaps even using AI to do it discretely and intelligently. I view that as a significant risk. So the platform has gone from something that's highly useful to me, and a place I greatly enjoyed, to something that more often than not wastes my time and exposes me to people that disturb me. And on top of all that I think contributing to the platform may empower someone who I deeply distrust to manipulate public opinion towards their political goals.
stronglikedan 11mo ago
and nothing of value was lost
faidit 11mo ago
The best time to leave Twitter was when Elon made it a yahtzee pron site. The next best time is now. Kudos to the FSFE, it's never too late to do the right thing.
- mvdtnz 11mo ago
  What's a "yahtzee pron site"?
  - adamwong246 11mo ago
    certain words get filtered out by the algorithms. "yahtzee" translates to "Those snappily dressed German fascists during WWII". "pron" translates to "sexually explicit material". So if you don't want your posts flagged, you have to use code words.
    - dzhiurgis 11mo ago
      So it’s a dog whistle?
      - adamwong246 11mo ago
        No, that is not a Dog Whistle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) > In politics, a dog whistle is the use of coded or suggestive language in political messaging to garner support from a particular group without provoking opposition.
F3nd0 11mo ago
Generally speaking, both using and not using X seem like reasonable choices for the FSFE, in my opinion. But deciding to leave it right now over changes in 'direction and climate' seems… odd. The FSFE's mission, as I understand it, is to support and promote free software. But as far as I know, Twitter has never been a friend of free software, nor has it been supportive of other related values the article mentions, like 'privacy', 'transparency', 'autonomy', 'data protection', etc. It has always been a non-free, centralised network which cared about profit more than user rights, and engagement more than fostering civil discourse. I don't see FSFE's presence on a platform as endorsement of its values, but rather as a way to leverage its popularity to better promote their mission. That hasn't changed; X is still a popular platform. It's attitude to Free Software and related ideas doesn't seem to have changed, either. So why leave now? I get 'misinformation, harassment, and hate speech' are never a good thing, but I don't recall the FSFE opposing them so vehemently before (more like just ignoring them), so why now, out of the blue? Unless there's been a change in their internal priorities, which they don't communicate, it doesn't really add up for me. In the end, this just reads like them taking a political stance and trying to rationalise it in more neutral language. And I can understand and respect that decision, but the fuzzy phrasing still rubs me the wrong way.
- anonymous908213 11mo ago
  It's really not that fuzzy. > The FSFE's mission, as I understand it, is to support and promote free software. But as far as I know, Twitter has never been a friend of free software, nor has it been supportive of other related values the article mentions, like 'privacy', 'transparency', 'autonomy', 'data protection', etc. It has always been a non-free, centralised network which cared about profit more than user rights, and engagement more than fostering civil discourse. Indeed, and FSFE writes: > The platform never aligned with our values > a space we were never comfortable joining, yet one that was once important for reaching members of society who were not active in our preferred spaces for interaction And then says in no unclear terms what changed: > Since Elon Musk acquired the social network [...] the FSFE has been closely monitoring the developments of this proprietary platform > Over time, it has become increasingly hostile, with misinformation, harassment, and hate speech more visible than ever. > an algorithm that prioritises hatred, polarisation, and sensationalism, alongside growing privacy and data protection concerns, has led us to the decision to part ways with this platform. You cherry-picked two words "direction and climate" from the article and criticised them for taking an ambiguous political stance, but there is nothing ambiguous about the actual announcement and they clarify their exact motivation for leaving multiple times.
froggertoaster 11mo ago
[dead]
adamwong246 11mo ago
If you still have a twitter account, you really ought to be ashamed. There's no longer any excuses.
- froggertoaster 11mo ago
  What should anyone with an X account be ashamed of, exactly?
  - adamwong246 11mo ago
    Because you are putting more money in the pocket of Musk.
    - froggertoaster 11mo ago
      I don't have an opinion of Elon Musk. What would you say to those who think he's a value-add to the world, or are completely neutral about them (as I am)? Do you really think your values are that pervasive, even here in HN (which tends towards an echo chamber)?
      - adamwong246 11mo ago
        Yes. We all know that he is an untrustworthy, spoiled man-child with daddy issues so deep, that even the whole world is not enough. He is a fascist and an anchor around the neck of the entire world. In a more just world, he would be loaded onto one of his rockets and launched into the Phantom Zone. The only one's who can't see this are so hopelessly deluded, they cannot be reasoned with.
        user34283 11mo ago
        When you say "we all" you really mean radical liberals who believe Musk is a fascist. Do you also believe the hoax that Musk, officially "a dear friend of Israel", performed the salute on stage? Talk about being hopelessly deluded. No one needs to like the man or consider him trustworthy, but the kind of hate you and many other liberals display? Totally unreasonable.
bgwalter 11mo ago
Ok, now how about a GPL-4 that forbids "AI" training?
- bgwalter 11mo ago
  FSFE stooges downvote because they do not want to be reminded of their real mission. Interesting.
- qustrolabe 11mo ago
  bad idea
jMyles 11mo ago
I want something that seems so very simple: * A web-of-trust social media, where I can instantly see, about any account, all of the chains of separation between us, in order to verify and validate the humanity and social connection of another person. Presently, twitter (and even moreso, reddit) are just so overrun by bots whose job seems to be to muddy all waters with short-shrift, low-effort takes, but expressed in way more words than are necessary. I don't mind (in fact, I love) long-form posts like were common in the old reddit, but that are thoughtful and perhaps radical (in the same of addressing the root of the subject). Today's reddit is almost as bad as twitter. I'm kinda ready to get off both of them, but I'd like to still have daily engagement on topics that challenge me / my worldviews.
pessimizer 11mo ago
I would say that I hate this, but I actually don't know what good it does to be a political organization actively engaging on social media anymore. There are too many paid mercenaries with expensive automation who will disrupt whatever you do. But what are they going to do instead, nothing? Killing yourself in protest makes it really easy on your enemies (and aren't the only enemies of Free Software the people who want to sell closed devices?). Do what you do, don't feel like you have to control all the responses to what you do, or that they are hurting you. Your engagement with the public is independent of any reaction to you. You have total control over it. In this case, it looks like you're choosing to withdraw into a closet and only speak to your friends. All that being said, twitter/X, both pre-Musk and post-Musk, sabotaged and sabotages reach based on opinionated, political, and profit-driven algorithms. People don't even see you. If your reach numbers were crap, you might as well not waste the effort. But I actually don't know what the effort is to fire and forget links to your press releases and current campaigns that you've doubtlessly posted other places. Seems almost zero. My fear is that this is being pushed by people who are simply taking advantage of their power in an organization to push their own personal grievances. Free Software should only care about Elon Musk and Twitter to the extent that it is not Free Software. If you've moved into the "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil" place, you've lost the plot. I'm also getting a bit sick of Europeans stepping out of conversations because they aren't censored enough, even if the algorithm is definitely promoting the worst for engagement. It's scary. Europe has a comically bad history with this. edit: and even the mention of "misinformation" is a red flag. I don't want a FSF that is a "misinformation" and hate speech monitor. I want a FSF that neonazis and climate skeptics feel free to join if they think that software should be Free.
zoobab 11mo ago
"We keep being active on some other proprietary platforms in order to reach a wider part of society, journalists, and decision makers." Stallman would not be proud.
german_dong 11mo ago
The only way to get attention on X is to announce you're leaving it. Well played, whoever you are.
dzonga 11mo ago
I hate how announcements etc from gvt officials, public entities etc started getting announced on X, Fb or social media in general ? what happened to the official blob & official press releases ? these things are a solved problem (wordpress etc, if you wanna subscribe use RSS)
stiltzkin 11mo ago
[dead]
SilverElfin 11mo ago
I don’t really like the political nature of these decisions. It feels like political people often take over groups and institutions to implement their own political agendas through such policies. On the other hand, Twitter/X has a problem of spam. I don’t even think it’s bots but actual humans. You see low effort and racist comments all over the place, poisoning the conversations. And it’s not just on political posts. If you’re Chinese or African or Indian, there will be vile comments spamming your posts. Such a space isn’t welcoming to many people and I think groups like FSFE have legitimate reasons to want to avoid exposing their members to this stuff. It’s a hostile environment.
qustrolabe 11mo ago
"the current platform direction and climate combined with an algorithm that prioritises hatred, polarisation, and sensationalism, alongside growing privacy and data protection concerns" While I agree that this platform has a lot of hateful people, it's definitely possible after some basic internet hygiene end up with nice recommendations feed especially after forming solid following list with good people, no hatred no politics only coolest people doing cool things. I like it there. It's the place where things happen that you read about on other cites only weeks later in some twisted form
cbeach 11mo ago
X.com is not a "breeding ground for racism and hate" any more than Reddit or Facebook (I've seen some hair-raising content on all the main platforms). The difference with X.com is that is doesn't systematically censor anti-establishment / rightwing voices. That's why the Left hate and fear X.com.
- akimbostrawman 11mo ago
  "racism and hate" is double speak for opinion the left doesn't like/allow. quite funny how transparent it has become even for hn.
  - greentea23 11mo ago
    Could you provide a specific example of an opinion labeled as "racist and hateful" that you believe was misclassified as such?
    - akimbostrawman 11mo ago
      pointing out patterns in scientific statistics / the real world, not agreeing to label something as something which it scientifically isn't and not changing the meaning of well established words for ideological reasons.
      - greentea23 11mo ago
        Those aren't very specific, so it's hard to understand the dichotomy you're trying to paint.

158 points by latexr 11mo ago

Good on them. It always feels like " But other than that, Mrs Lincoln enjoyed the play" watching people rationalize why they are still on Twitter or use Grok

stronglikedan 11mo ago
why would anyone need to rationalize it? they're still two of the best platforms in their respective silos. most people don't care about drama and virtue signaling
- adamwong246 11mo ago
  Only one rationalization is need- Musk is evil. If you are still using Twitter, as far as I am concerned, you in league with him. You might as well just put on a MAGA hat.

rvz 11mo ago

> What initially intended to be a place for dialogue and information exchange has turned into a centralised arena of hostility, misinformation, and profit-driven control, far removed from the ideals of freedom we stand for. Always has been.

doener 11mo ago
It got more deliberately manipulative with pushing a right wing agenda.
- GaryBluto 11mo ago
  It became more obviously manipulative when it started pushing a right wing agenda.
baiwl 11mo ago
[flagged]
- orwin 11mo ago
  Thread is less political overall and have exactly the same issue, it not about political side imho, it's about engagement and the new algorithms. I follow someone who used to use Twitter to update on his projects, 2 years ago he received a few hundred times more engagement for dunking on flat earthers than for pushing his video on Maxwell. He decided to stop. More engagement for controversy was always the algorithm, but it was two orders of magnitude lower a decade ago.
orwin 11mo ago
The issue is the new algorithm I think. It's the same on thread. You're more likely to get a view by responding to outrage bait than by promoting your own work, while before it was 50/50: responding to bait was great to reach a new audience, but for people who already followed you, you could still reach them by posting 'normally'. Do you follow any content creator anywhere? Before 2019, you basically _had_ to be on Twitter to follow updates. Then the media diversified, but by 2023, even people still on X will rather use discord to have update on content creator they follow (or, weirdly, Instagram it seems? At least my favourite vulgarisation content creator seems to think so)

rustaceanU32 11mo ago

It's a good idea to leave X, considering the values of the Free Software Foundation and how they don't exactly align with X's profit-driven model, and the spread of internet garbage.

F3nd0 11mo ago
I think either leaving a hostile platform or staying to promote ideas which run against it are reasonable choices. But what the article doesn't say is why they (as an organisation whose mission is to protect and promote free software) should choose to leave now, when from what I know, Twitter has always been a non-free, profit-driven network.
zvr 11mo ago
Actually the announcement is by the Free Software Foundation Europe, an organization that empowers users to control technology.

guywithahat 11mo ago

Except now the just have less reach? I didn't follow them, so perhaps they had 10 followers and no reach to begin with, but this seems foolish if you have a mission you care about.

scottyah 11mo ago
Exactly, seems like the people on X are exactly the people whose minds they should be trying to change.
registeredcorn 11mo ago
I found myself wondering the same thing. Do they genuinely expect people who have never heard about FSFE to be using a decentralized social platform? That sounds scary. Normal people don't use scary sounding things. They're certainly welcome to do whatever they think is right, and it sounds more "on brand" for them, but it seems ridiculous to say something like "[Using Twitter was] important for reaching members of society who were not active in our preferred spaces for interaction." but then end with "Follow the FSFE on Mastodon and Peertube!" I am very tech literate and I've never even heard of Peertube. There is very little chance they are ever going to reach even a single set of ears this way. At that point, they might as well just send random fliers in the mail to strangers.

0xcb0 11mo ago

I congratulate you to that decision. Twitter is really a breeding ground for racism and hate. Nobody should be on that platform.

GaryBluto 11mo ago
Why does everybody I see complaining about modern Twitter say the exact phrase "Nobody should be on that platform."? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point, just curious if there was some manifesto going around or if everybody suddenly started using the same phrase. Is it just me or have people started using the same phrases more often and faster than before? Reminds me of when everybody started saying "God forbid" a few months ago.
- davidw 11mo ago
  I don't know about the phrase, but I share the sentiment. The owner is a racist promoting racist things. It's not a 'public square' because he controls the algorithm, so it'll never be a 'fair fight' for those who disagree with him.
  - jsheard 11mo ago
    Paying users are also explicitly given priority in the reply section, which naturally hands a megaphone to the type of user that is more willing to give money to Elon Musk and wear the "I gave money to Elon Musk" badge.
- GoblinSlayer 11mo ago
  It's a straightforward solution to the monopoly problem.
- HtmlProgrammer 11mo ago
  We want X to exist to contain these people. The same situation applies to League of Legends and their wonderfully toxic player base
- jedimastert 11mo ago

throw0101d 11mo ago

While I'm not against people not-using Twitter/X (or any other platform): would it have been better to keep the account as a 'placeholder' so no one else can grab it? Have a post saying "We do not monitor this account." or some such?

conartist6 11mo ago
Why help Twitter be a safer more trustworthy platform when Twitter doesn't seem to want to be a safe or trustworthy platform?
catapart 11mo ago
You only need a placeholder if you think the platform matters enough to hold space for. For example: they don't have a placeholder on MySpace. But if your goal is to prevent other people from having the name altogether, the move I personally enjoyed engaging in was getting my account blocked. That forces them to hold your account only to prevent anyone from using it, lest you might sneak back in and say something "harmful" like "stonetoss is hans kristian graebener".
- GaryBluto 11mo ago
  > the move I personally enjoyed engaging in was getting my account blocked. So you think the FSF should've used the account representing them to troll?
  - Xylakant 11mo ago
    Haven't tested lately, but at least for a while you could get your account blocked by publicly suggesting people follow you some other place.
    - jayknight 11mo ago
      I made my account private and put my bsky address in my profile, so that doesn't appear to be an insta ban.

scottyah 11mo ago

That's a lot of words with not a lot of substance. I suppose their whole identity is announcing that they're superior to other people and branching off, while asking for money for what looks like mostly sending people to talk at events (which are probably mostly more fundraising). > "In the current situation we see ourselves unable to collaborate both with the FSF and any other organisation[sic] in which Richard Stallman has a leading position." I do wish more people would try to fix things from the inside, and I get there's a point where it's no longer possible, but in this case it sounds like they didn't like people calling them out on X and had no way to control the narrative. What other gain would there be for a group trying to spread information in as many channels as possible?

n4r9 11mo ago
What strategies could FSF employ to "fix things from the inside" on Twitter?
- scottyah 11mo ago
  Talk openly and transparently with whomever is not aligning with their ideals. They used to call it discussion.
  - catapart 11mo ago
    lol imagine thinking you can discuss a hopped up ket-head into "aligning with your ideals".
    - scottyah 11mo ago
      it's the town square- it's not about the two people talking but for everyone reading what they said instead of controlling the narrative by only speaking to people you want in places you want. They don't even have to answer to everyone, so the only benefit of losing access to thousands/millions of people is to make an article like this for Pride.
      - 11mo ago

jrm4 11mo ago

Bad idea. Love it or hate it, Twitter (yeah, I choose to be stubborn here) is still probably overwhelmingly the most impactful platform in this way. While I respect the idea of the "boycott" in the abstract, perhaps the most wrong thing people think about it is "Because it's controlled by so-and-so, everyone who uses it is brainwashed and it's impossible to do good there." Nope. Look, a lot of good people are still there. I personally also wish they would all leave and we all go elsewhere -- but that's not the present reality. As such, people who insist that you must leave and no good can happen through staying ring the same to me as "IF SO AND SO GETS ELECTED IM LEAVING THE COUNTRY."

m-hodges 11mo ago
Pretending you’re going to emigrate from your home country is not similar to actually logging off from a website you hate.
yokoprime 11mo ago
I don’t think leaving a platform you don’t enjoy has much, if anything, in common with physically relocating. I left X, but I have an account i use to log in about once a week to see if there’s anything worth while. I haven’t really found an alternative to X, things are fragmented now. Where I used to be able to follow most people I were interested in on Twitter, i now have some on bluesky, some on mastodon, some still on X, a bunch at instagram and YouTube… it’s a mess
- jrm4 11mo ago
  The parallel I'm drawing here is that a lot of people threaten that when they don't really mean it, and more specifically, don't seem to think about why others don't. I still have people there, so I will stick around.
- GoblinSlayer 11mo ago
  Wasn't it supposed as a feature of mastodon when people are on different servers and you can integrate them email style?
11mo ago

quotemstr 11mo ago

Note the word "Europe": > In the current situation we see ourselves unable to collaborate both with the FSF and any other organisation in which Richard Stallman has a leading position https://fsfe.org/about/fsfnetwork.html https://fsfe.org/about/fsfnetwork.html These guys are entitled to use or avoid any social media platform they want. I'm entitled, as well, to judge them for putting purity tests in unrelated domains above their commitment to free software and thereby rendering themselves ineffective in their primary mission. Irrelevance is their choice. That said, there's a transparency consideration. Doesn't Europe have laws about charities having to use donor funds to advance the ostensible purpose of the charity? Matthias Kirschner is FSFE president and a full time employee. Do FSFE's donors know the FSFE is making itself less effective towards its mission of promoting free software by avoiding people who the FSFE leadership team dislike for reasons unrelated to free software? If they want to do this stuff, they should put it in their charter.

aniviacat 11mo ago
I don't see how they would be any more transparent about it.
lukeschlather 11mo ago
If you ever run a large organization you will quickly find there are lots of people you are unable to cooperate with for reasons unrelated to your organization's primary mission. Especially in a nonprofit, the primary thing for being effective in your mission is having people who want to work together, if you have people who can't stand each other you're not going to be effective.
- bgwalter 11mo ago
  That is not true. The libertarian free-speech FSF(E) was way more effective in 2000 than it is now. All these organizations have been infiltrated by career bureaucrats who have their pet political wedge issues and bite away everyone else. Of course they are silent on the really big issues. They would ban Stallman but not go after Epstein's real friends. And that is in a nutshell how these political pseudo movements differ from the real political movements at the end of the sixties. At that time they were not afraid of going after the big guys.

HtmlProgrammer 11mo ago

There are plenty of people who love FOSS and terminally on X. Yes they are crazy, paranoid and racist but thats cutting off one of your key markets lol

add-sub-mul-div 11mo ago
You can either be a leader or a follower.
adamwong246 11mo ago
Perhaps, but of all people, FOSS devotees should know why Twitter needs to die. The fact that so many people remain on the platform is disheartening to say the least. How bad does it have to get before you refuse to take part?
tkel 11mo ago
Well then it's a good thing the FSFE isn't selling commodities on the "market"

pinkhairew 11mo ago

[flagged]

fpauser 11mo ago

What is X?

throwawaydec4 11mo ago
The new name for Twitter, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter#Since_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter#Since_2022

natch 11mo ago

I see more hate and misinformation on Mastodon than I see on X. Here is a very mild one: [edit: link removed; I don't want to promote that guy but to give the gist he was saying that people who believe in free speech are trash, targeting X users with hate. Mastodon is absolutely saturated with this.] Most of the criticism I see of X seems completely made up out of malice or is regurgitation of things other poorly informed or resentful people have said. The supposed FSF in Europe should post links to the sections of the open source algorithm they claim to be criticizing, and show us their PR.

kettlecorn 11mo ago
My criticism of X is primarily rooted in 2 things: the massive degradation of my experience using the platform and a distrust that Musk wouldn't use the platform to manipulate public opinion to achieve political goals. On the first point the simplest thing is I used to report people who use overt slurs or anti-semitic language. When Musk took over it started taking months for them to follow up and the response was simply to lock the account until they deleted the offending tweet. Eventually when I would report those people X just switched to saying they weren't breaking the rules. Now the replies of tons of seemingly normal posts that get lots of visibility are full of vile people trying to derail conversation with racism or anti-semitism. Another big problem is the way that blue-check accounts are boosted has incentivized every account to act like click-bait all the time. Whenever a post gets semi-viral the blue-check replies are artificially lifted to the top and most of them are totally worthless because the commenters are just trying to 'grab space' so people click their profile and follow them. It used to be that if big accounts posted something interesting you might see a bunch of interesting follow up replies. Now it's spammers at the top and then racists / crazies mixed in with more thoughtful replies if you scroll down a few pages past the blue-checks. It used to be that the algorithmic feed would surface me all sorts of interesting and novel work from people across the tech world but now there's a whole category of people trying to make every single Tweet viral enough to get payouts. And then there's Musk himself. He's ordered the algorithm to be manipulated to boost himself more. He's clearly expressed discontent when the algorithm doesn't work the way he wants, he's meddled heavily in the platform's AI bot to make it say things Musk prefers, and he's been rather unscrupulous chasing his political goals. I think it's not unlikely he'd use the platform to guide public opinion, perhaps even using AI to do it discretely and intelligently. I view that as a significant risk. So the platform has gone from something that's highly useful to me, and a place I greatly enjoyed, to something that more often than not wastes my time and exposes me to people that disturb me. And on top of all that I think contributing to the platform may empower someone who I deeply distrust to manipulate public opinion towards their political goals.

stronglikedan 11mo ago

and nothing of value was lost

faidit 11mo ago

The best time to leave Twitter was when Elon made it a yahtzee pron site. The next best time is now. Kudos to the FSFE, it's never too late to do the right thing.

mvdtnz 11mo ago
What's a "yahtzee pron site"?
- adamwong246 11mo ago
  certain words get filtered out by the algorithms. "yahtzee" translates to "Those snappily dressed German fascists during WWII". "pron" translates to "sexually explicit material". So if you don't want your posts flagged, you have to use code words.
  - dzhiurgis 11mo ago
    So it’s a dog whistle?
    - adamwong246 11mo ago
      No, that is not a Dog Whistle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics) > In politics, a dog whistle is the use of coded or suggestive language in political messaging to garner support from a particular group without provoking opposition.

F3nd0 11mo ago

Generally speaking, both using and not using X seem like reasonable choices for the FSFE, in my opinion. But deciding to leave it right now over changes in 'direction and climate' seems… odd. The FSFE's mission, as I understand it, is to support and promote free software. But as far as I know, Twitter has never been a friend of free software, nor has it been supportive of other related values the article mentions, like 'privacy', 'transparency', 'autonomy', 'data protection', etc. It has always been a non-free, centralised network which cared about profit more than user rights, and engagement more than fostering civil discourse. I don't see FSFE's presence on a platform as endorsement of its values, but rather as a way to leverage its popularity to better promote their mission. That hasn't changed; X is still a popular platform. It's attitude to Free Software and related ideas doesn't seem to have changed, either. So why leave now? I get 'misinformation, harassment, and hate speech' are never a good thing, but I don't recall the FSFE opposing them so vehemently before (more like just ignoring them), so why now, out of the blue? Unless there's been a change in their internal priorities, which they don't communicate, it doesn't really add up for me. In the end, this just reads like them taking a political stance and trying to rationalise it in more neutral language. And I can understand and respect that decision, but the fuzzy phrasing still rubs me the wrong way.

anonymous908213 11mo ago
It's really not that fuzzy. > The FSFE's mission, as I understand it, is to support and promote free software. But as far as I know, Twitter has never been a friend of free software, nor has it been supportive of other related values the article mentions, like 'privacy', 'transparency', 'autonomy', 'data protection', etc. It has always been a non-free, centralised network which cared about profit more than user rights, and engagement more than fostering civil discourse. Indeed, and FSFE writes: > The platform never aligned with our values > a space we were never comfortable joining, yet one that was once important for reaching members of society who were not active in our preferred spaces for interaction And then says in no unclear terms what changed: > Since Elon Musk acquired the social network [...] the FSFE has been closely monitoring the developments of this proprietary platform > Over time, it has become increasingly hostile, with misinformation, harassment, and hate speech more visible than ever. > an algorithm that prioritises hatred, polarisation, and sensationalism, alongside growing privacy and data protection concerns, has led us to the decision to part ways with this platform. You cherry-picked two words "direction and climate" from the article and criticised them for taking an ambiguous political stance, but there is nothing ambiguous about the actual announcement and they clarify their exact motivation for leaving multiple times.

froggertoaster 11mo ago

[dead]

adamwong246 11mo ago

If you still have a twitter account, you really ought to be ashamed. There's no longer any excuses.

froggertoaster 11mo ago
What should anyone with an X account be ashamed of, exactly?
- adamwong246 11mo ago
  Because you are putting more money in the pocket of Musk.
  - froggertoaster 11mo ago
    I don't have an opinion of Elon Musk. What would you say to those who think he's a value-add to the world, or are completely neutral about them (as I am)? Do you really think your values are that pervasive, even here in HN (which tends towards an echo chamber)?
    - adamwong246 11mo ago
      Yes. We all know that he is an untrustworthy, spoiled man-child with daddy issues so deep, that even the whole world is not enough. He is a fascist and an anchor around the neck of the entire world. In a more just world, he would be loaded onto one of his rockets and launched into the Phantom Zone. The only one's who can't see this are so hopelessly deluded, they cannot be reasoned with.
      - user34283 11mo ago
        When you say "we all" you really mean radical liberals who believe Musk is a fascist. Do you also believe the hoax that Musk, officially "a dear friend of Israel", performed the salute on stage? Talk about being hopelessly deluded. No one needs to like the man or consider him trustworthy, but the kind of hate you and many other liberals display? Totally unreasonable.

bgwalter 11mo ago

Ok, now how about a GPL-4 that forbids "AI" training?

bgwalter 11mo ago
FSFE stooges downvote because they do not want to be reminded of their real mission. Interesting.
qustrolabe 11mo ago
bad idea

jMyles 11mo ago

I want something that seems so very simple: * A web-of-trust social media, where I can instantly see, about any account, all of the chains of separation between us, in order to verify and validate the humanity and social connection of another person. Presently, twitter (and even moreso, reddit) are just so overrun by bots whose job seems to be to muddy all waters with short-shrift, low-effort takes, but expressed in way more words than are necessary. I don't mind (in fact, I love) long-form posts like were common in the old reddit, but that are thoughtful and perhaps radical (in the same of addressing the root of the subject). Today's reddit is almost as bad as twitter. I'm kinda ready to get off both of them, but I'd like to still have daily engagement on topics that challenge me / my worldviews.

pessimizer 11mo ago

I would say that I hate this, but I actually don't know what good it does to be a political organization actively engaging on social media anymore. There are too many paid mercenaries with expensive automation who will disrupt whatever you do. But what are they going to do instead, nothing? Killing yourself in protest makes it really easy on your enemies (and aren't the only enemies of Free Software the people who want to sell closed devices?). Do what you do, don't feel like you have to control all the responses to what you do, or that they are hurting you. Your engagement with the public is independent of any reaction to you. You have total control over it. In this case, it looks like you're choosing to withdraw into a closet and only speak to your friends. All that being said, twitter/X, both pre-Musk and post-Musk, sabotaged and sabotages reach based on opinionated, political, and profit-driven algorithms. People don't even see you. If your reach numbers were crap, you might as well not waste the effort. But I actually don't know what the effort is to fire and forget links to your press releases and current campaigns that you've doubtlessly posted other places. Seems almost zero. My fear is that this is being pushed by people who are simply taking advantage of their power in an organization to push their own personal grievances. Free Software should only care about Elon Musk and Twitter to the extent that it is not Free Software. If you've moved into the "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil" place, you've lost the plot. I'm also getting a bit sick of Europeans stepping out of conversations because they aren't censored enough, even if the algorithm is definitely promoting the worst for engagement. It's scary. Europe has a comically bad history with this. edit: and even the mention of "misinformation" is a red flag. I don't want a FSF that is a "misinformation" and hate speech monitor. I want a FSF that neonazis and climate skeptics feel free to join if they think that software should be Free.

zoobab 11mo ago

"We keep being active on some other proprietary platforms in order to reach a wider part of society, journalists, and decision makers." Stallman would not be proud.

german_dong 11mo ago

The only way to get attention on X is to announce you're leaving it. Well played, whoever you are.

dzonga 11mo ago

I hate how announcements etc from gvt officials, public entities etc started getting announced on X, Fb or social media in general ? what happened to the official blob & official press releases ? these things are a solved problem (wordpress etc, if you wanna subscribe use RSS)

stiltzkin 11mo ago

[dead]

SilverElfin 11mo ago

I don’t really like the political nature of these decisions. It feels like political people often take over groups and institutions to implement their own political agendas through such policies. On the other hand, Twitter/X has a problem of spam. I don’t even think it’s bots but actual humans. You see low effort and racist comments all over the place, poisoning the conversations. And it’s not just on political posts. If you’re Chinese or African or Indian, there will be vile comments spamming your posts. Such a space isn’t welcoming to many people and I think groups like FSFE have legitimate reasons to want to avoid exposing their members to this stuff. It’s a hostile environment.

qustrolabe 11mo ago

"the current platform direction and climate combined with an algorithm that prioritises hatred, polarisation, and sensationalism, alongside growing privacy and data protection concerns" While I agree that this platform has a lot of hateful people, it's definitely possible after some basic internet hygiene end up with nice recommendations feed especially after forming solid following list with good people, no hatred no politics only coolest people doing cool things. I like it there. It's the place where things happen that you read about on other cites only weeks later in some twisted form

cbeach 11mo ago

X.com is not a "breeding ground for racism and hate" any more than Reddit or Facebook (I've seen some hair-raising content on all the main platforms). The difference with X.com is that is doesn't systematically censor anti-establishment / rightwing voices. That's why the Left hate and fear X.com.

akimbostrawman 11mo ago
"racism and hate" is double speak for opinion the left doesn't like/allow. quite funny how transparent it has become even for hn.
- greentea23 11mo ago
  Could you provide a specific example of an opinion labeled as "racist and hateful" that you believe was misclassified as such?
  - akimbostrawman 11mo ago
    pointing out patterns in scientific statistics / the real world, not agreeing to label something as something which it scientifically isn't and not changing the meaning of well established words for ideological reasons.
    - greentea23 11mo ago
      Those aren't very specific, so it's hard to understand the dichotomy you're trying to paint.