8 ms·
WhatsApp will become interoperable with other messaging apps in Europe
- timpera 10mo agoThis is a really cool initative, but I'm a bit worried about spam.
- jkaplowitz 10mo agoBeing opt-in for the WhatsApp user reduces the severity of that problem a lot, though certainly not to zero for those who do opt in.
- ale42 10mo agoTBH it also reduces the usefulness of the features a lot. If I first have to contact people on another channel to tell them to enable this feature because I want to message them, well, I guess most people wont just do it.
- pndy 10mo agoI'm more worried this happens because meta wants to access other networks to train their algorithms for free - just like with fediverse integration on threads. Of course, this is still only an unfounded guess but I can't believe they're doing this selflessly, out of the goodness of their hearts.
- benoau 10mo agoI like this, a long time ago there were quite a few multi-service messaging clients that tied into AIM, MSN, Yahoo etc it was very convenient. The downside is only the "gatekeepers" have to provide this interoperability, when it would be far more useful if all the popular platforms were facilitating it.
- sunaookami 10mo agoYeah this only cements WhatsApp's monopoly because everyone has to implement WhatsApp's proprietary protocol.
- Gualdrapo 10mo agoStill it's a bit less worse than the current situation where you're forced to use the upstream app because "security" or whatever. Still I agree that pre-2012 IM status was much better when open protocols were more popular. Of course there was the Windows Live Messenger thing but even you could use something like Pidgin to chat with it.
- ForHackernews 10mo agoBut if there are multiple independent clients and a reverse-engineered protocol, then it should be possible for someone to develop a third-party server implementation.
- sunaookami 10mo agoYou have to be approved by Meta and must sign an NDA: https://developers.facebook.com/m/messaging-interoperability/ https://developers.facebook.com/m/messaging-interoperability...
- whizzter 10mo agoiirc WhatsApp uses the same protocol as Signal.
- sunaookami 10mo agoIt's a bit more complicated: >In order to maximize user security, we would prefer third-party providers to use the Signal Protocol. Since this has to work for everyone however, we will allow third-party providers to use a compatible protocol if they are able to demonstrate it offers the same security guarantees as Signal. >To send messages, the third-party providers have to construct message protobuf structures which are then encrypted using the Signal Protocol and then packaged into message stanzas in eXtensible Markup Language (XML). >Meta servers push messages to connected clients over a persistent connection. Third-party servers are responsible for hosting any media files their client applications send to Meta clients (such as image or video files). After receiving a media message, Meta clients will subsequently download the encrypted media from the third-party messaging servers using a Meta proxy service. You also have to connect over XMPP and through a proprietary "Enlistment API", etc. https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-messenger-messaging-interoperability-eu/ https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-mess...
- smt88 10mo agoMeta is only rolling this out in Europe. This does nothing to shake their alarming monopolies in places like India.
- moralestapia 10mo agoI see no reason why none of all those extremely talented developers that America desperately needs can't come up with a messaging service of their own.
- _dky 10mo agoI guess it is more about captured user base than the technology. What other differentiating factors can you implement that can steer the masses from one messaging platform to the other. I cannot think of any.
- j_maffe 10mo agoThey can and they have. It's the lock-in Meta is imposing that's preventing new options to succeed in the market.
- moralestapia 10mo agoIf you have said this about Apple/Google, I would have said ... maaaaaayyybeeeeee ... But in this case, how exactly does Meta prevent people from India downloading and using another messaging app?
- j_maffe 10mo agoNothing. It's a monopoly in a market that is heavily network dependent. Without interoperability, it's infeasible for a new option to become viable. Though I'm sure you know this already and just believe that monopolies are alright for consumers.
- moralestapia 10mo ago
- qubex 10mo agoFor the iOS world, ideally the Messages app would be mandated to become a generic interface receptive to protocol plug-ins to interoperate with all messaging networks; and it too itself would be replaceable in that role.
- isodev 10mo agoI'm not sure Apple can be a good steward of such an open, plug-in based solution - they would always put in some restrictions to make the process very complicated and not accessible to platforms and developers. At the same time, making it possible to choose WhatsApp for the default messaging app has been a great relief for those not locked into Messages.
- qubex 10mo agoWell the thing is: if they were particularly obnoxious about their implementation, they could be replaced. I’m looking forward to a multi-protocol messaging client that implements other protocols as plugins. If and when such a thing arrives, I’m setting it to be my default.
- jandrewrogers 10mo agoA complication is that iMessage supports a ton of collaboration features that don't (and largely can't) exist across other messaging apps. The messaging bits will have the same nerfed interface as SMS/RCS because of missing capabilities. Despite having the appearance of a messaging app, iMessage operates as a backbone for a lot of OS capability that is surprisingly deep.
- Ajedi32 10mo agoThat seems like a good idea in the sense that it's better than separate apps for everything, but it's also probably the wrong level of abstraction. For example: what happens if you try to create a group chat containing an RCS user, a WhatsApp user, and a Telegram user? Ideally it would just work, but I don't see how that's possible without support for such a thing at a deeper level than just the UI layer.
- progval 10mo agoMatrix/Element wrote more on the issue than what is referenced in the article: https://matrix.org/blog/2024/09/whatsapp-dma/ https://matrix.org/blog/2024/09/whatsapp-dma/
- sva_ 10mo agoI wonder how this will work with e2e encryption?
- udev4096 10mo ago[flagged]
- input_sh 10mo ago> BirdyChat and Haiket are the first two messaging apps that will initially be interoperable with WhatsApp. What the heck are BirdyChat and Haiket? Both of those don't seem to actually exist, they just have a waitlist on their homepage. Literally the only post on BirdyChat's blog is how they're now WhatsApp-compatible, but their initial Google Play release happened 45 days ago (Oct 16th). Haiket's website similarly contains only one press release, which is to say that they're accepting waitlists since Nov 11th, but they're somehow funded by the "former CEO of AT&T Communications and board member of Palo Alto Networks and Lockheed Martin".
- pogue 10mo agoI was curious too, but I figured I was just an out of touch millennial who didn't know what all the kids were chatting on these days and didn't want to say anything...
- urbandw311er 10mo agoThis smells unbelievably dodgy
- bfkwlfkjf 10mo agoFacebook will attempt malicious compliance. They will try every trick so that they follow the letter of the law, but still undermine the regulators goals. I think this is round 1: Facebook figured out a way that only two irrelevant apps are initially interoperable.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 10mo agoI dislike fb a fair bit, but if whatsapp effectively replicated functionality of pidgin, I would seriously consider it despite its otherwise evil behavior. If they made it open source with permissible license, I might even forgive some of fb's past transgressions. They do have the resources to pull it off.
- Natfan 10mo agonot sure i can ever forgive them for, and i quote, "playing a determining role" in a genocide
- prmph 10mo agoWhat would be far more useful is easy export/import functionality not tied to iOS/Android backups. i lose some messages every time I switch phones; it's a mess
- poisonborz 10mo agoAndroid: You can get the message db with root. You can export individual chats in text version right from the interface. The message media is stored in the user folders. Still bad, sure, but there are worse offenders.
- pogue 10mo agoI'm sick of having so many different messaging apps. Everyone is using a different one, so you have to download another app, signup for something, figure out how to configure it & etc etc. We need a modern Trillian or Pidgin that just connects to and talks to everything. To be fair, Pidgin still has lots of plugins for many different chat protocols. I don't know how well maintained they are and if they work consistently. https://pidgin.im/plugins/?publisher=all&query=&type=Protocol https://pidgin.im/plugins/?publisher=all&query=&type=Protoco...
- lupire 10mo agoCtrl-F XMPP Hmm. Remember when gTalk had XMPP and Facebook killed XMPP by refusing to support it and launching the chat silo wars?
- alex_duf 10mo agoI wonder if that would allow Signal to become interoperable with Whatsapp?
- lenerdenator 10mo agoI wouldn't want any cross-talk between my secure messaging app and anything that is owned by Meta. Your comms are only as secure as the node receiving them.
- j_maffe 10mo agoYes which is fine given that you get to choose what you send to which app.
- djl0 10mo agoFTA: As reported by Heise Online, Signal and Threema will not establish connections allowing for interoperability with WhatsApp.
- brettermeier 10mo agoI want to read this in original language, but this website always directs me to it's german version. Really annoying! Respect my decision as a user to choose the language I want, not where my IP comes from...
- fer 10mo agoIt's been a pain point for me for years with many services. Shameless plug on the topic: https://www.fer.xyz/2021/04/i18n https://www.fer.xyz/2021/04/i18n
- rrr_oh_man 10mo agoCompletely and utterly ignored by Google >:(
- hmokiguess 10mo agoIf I stopped and looked at how many redundant apps I have right now that’d be wild. For messaging alone, I’m on iMessage, Messenger, Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp, Slack, Discord, IRC, many in-app DM secondary tier feature chats, and perhaps a few other esoteric ones. Can we go back to just IRC please, those were the days for me.
- Yokolos 10mo agoI miss the days when I could start Pidgin and it'd automatically log into every single service I use, and I could chat with anybody regardless of which service they were on. I didn't need half a dozen different apps running just to chat. It felt like a utopia compared to what we have today.
- rw_grim 10mo agoWe're working hard on getting back to that, but it takes time, and we're an unfunded open source project, but soon maybe? You may be interested in our monthly updates https://discourse.imfreedom.org/tag/state-of-the-bird https://discourse.imfreedom.org/tag/state-of-the-bird
- theknarf 10mo agoPeople tried to standardize on XMPP back in the day, but capitalism figured out that standardize didn't fit their profit motivation. These days XMPP is a bit of an dated XML-heavy protocol, but Matrix is a newer alternative, and it supports bridging.
- arthurfirst 10mo agoNo profit in allowing people to communicate freely without intermediaries. How to middle man and gatekeep otherwise?
- hmokiguess 10mo agoWhile I agree with you, there's certainly other ways to make money in an open protocol. Email perhaps is a good example, we are still on SMTP/IMAP and there's lots of business built on custom clients and whatnot. (Ok, maybe not the best example haha but hopefully you get my point here)
- ExoticPearTree 10mo agoAnd what about E2E encryption? How will that work for users? Or will WhatsApp go the iMessage way and signal that you're talking to a non user of the platform and that you should be careful what you say there?
- anonymars 10mo agoWhatsApp is the only chat app I've encountered that refuses to work* if you don't give it access to your contacts. The last thing I want is to give it access to even more chats. Go eat a bag of dicks, Meta. More like "metastatic" * you can respond to messages but are very limited in what you can initiate (as such they got you as part of someone else's contact list)
- sethops1 10mo agoI think this might only be true on Android? Apple has a strict policy that the basic app functionality must work even without permissions. And testing right now, I can send messages to direct numbers without having given access to my contacts.
- ckemere 10mo agoOriginal poster explained that the functionality is having a contact list. WhatsApp will either access and use ALL your contacts or none on iPhone as well as android. Having jumped through many hoops to preserve conversations without leaking contacts, I’m highly attuned to this…
- nasretdinov 10mo agoRecent iOS versions allow you to share only a small subset of contacts, which is really useful for apps like these
- DicIfTEx 10mo agoAs does GrapheneOS with its Contact Scopes permission.
- throwaway290 10mo agonope. he literally wrote "cannot initiate messages if you don't give it access to your contacts" and that's false on iphone. on iphone whatsapp has its own separate contact list if you don't give it access. and it is like this for years.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- zenoprax 10mo agoThis feels like a distraction from what is really needed: a return to open standards/protocols. I love the idea of Matrix but the complexity of key management and federation for the average person is far too high. Signal is a perfect direct replacement for WhatsApp but it still requires a phone number. RCS is good enough... as a fallback protocol. I don't want a dependency on a phone number or a single physical device. Why is email so durable but federated messaging so fragile? If we can make PGP/GPG email more accessible I wonder if that could translate to instant messaging?
- mrguyorama 10mo agoThe only possible way to return to open standards and protocols would be to make a closed protocol illegal. That was vaguely the state of things before the DMCA here in the US. Sega had no legal ability to stop other companies from selling cartridges that played on a genesis for example, and in one court case the Judge ruled that the company was legally right to breach Sega's trademark rights to achieve that interoperability. Sony, Nintendo, and others all lost similar suits about trying to restrict interoperability with their products and software. In fact, Sega was going to lose that case so badly, and the precedent was so clearly beneficial to the consumer and market, that they chose to settle it to prevent the precedent from being established. That this is something you can choose to do well after it becomes obvious how the case should end is an atrocious feature of the US "justice" system. You shouldn't get to take a case all the way to a verdict, and then have an appeals court poke holes in your claims and then say "actually we don't want any of this on the record anymore" The DMCA as written makes it very easy to prevent interoperability by law simply with a bit of code here or there to make token efforts to prevent access.
- niyumard 10mo ago> If we can make PGP/GPG email more accessible I wonder if that could translate to instant messaging? You might be amazed... https://delta.chat https://delta.chat
- zenoprax 10mo agoAnother messaging app to try and convince my friend to try with me! Perfect haha, thanks.
- daft_pink 10mo agoI generally wouldn’t want my messages going to WhatsApp/Meta/Facebook, but I’m not from a country where usage of those apps is very high at all.
- pedrozieg 10mo agoWhat WhatsApp really needs to do is allow people to store their chats in the cloud. WhatsApp is the only communication tool that forces people to keep everything on their phones - or delete information. This causes WhatsApp to take up a large chunk of the available space on most phones.
- Tryk 10mo agoNo thanks, I wouldn't want my text messages used to train an AI. Or my metadata used to improve surveillance.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- pmig 10mo agoI am still waiting for the day where gMessage (currently called "Messages, Hangouts, or who knows what) & iMessage will be interoperable. The RCS standard is already out there