7 ms·

More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

61 points by makerdiety 11mo ago

catigula 11mo ago
>This story was based on more than 30 interviews Yikes
- nomel 11mo ago
  I'd be interesting in seeing the recruitment method and spatial distribution of those 30.
  - 000ooo000 11mo ago
    Subjects selected from local gun store line
  - greenavocado 11mo ago
    The student-run cafe in the basement of the Sociology building, whose patio opens onto the main quad's designated protest lawn.
warbaker 11mo ago
See https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/ https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/
unionjack22 11mo ago
I’m really curious about the amount of screen time and news/social media consumption of these groups. I assume it’s a couple standard deviations above what’s healthy.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- happytoexplain 11mo ago
  Why would you explicitly assume something that confirms your bias? Why not just say that you suspect a trend? Individual anecdote, but I bought a pistol for defense in the US because of the (two way) threats I constantly read and hear in my real life, and I do not consume any social media. No Twitter, no Facebook. I don't read news outside HN, my local paper, and the occasional CS Monitor story. I rarely sit around scrolling TikTok/YouTube/etc on my phone, and when I do, it thankfully just shows me engineering/trades stuff (BigClive type stuff, plumbers, etc). Admittedly, I have visited 4chan occasionally since it was established. My opinion is: It's fallacious to imply that the hatred and violence of Americans against Americans is negligible, and could only be considered a real problem through the lens of dishonest media. Yes, consuming garbage media will amplify that fear, but the fear is absolutely, obviously based on real, actual attitudes and words in the US.
  - integralid 11mo ago
    >because of the (two way) threats I constantly hear and read, and I do not consume any social media Where do you hear the threats then? In real life? Are they quoted in the local news you read? (Sight nitpick - HN is social media)
  - qwerpy 11mo ago
    In my social circle (mostly Asian tech employees in the PNW) there were many first-time gun purchases immediately after the social unrest in 2020. Hysterical social media posts about "the riots are going to come to the suburbs" factored into it. The fears ended up being completely overblown. Now there are different groups of people who are predicting violence and feeling the need to do something about it. Too early to tell whether the fears are overblown this time around as well. In any case, I hope all first-time gun owners properly train with them and secure their guns at home. I wouldn't be surprised if the main outcome of both of these clusters of gun buying is not actual defense against the feared threats, but that guns get stolen and used for crimes.
    - RickJWagner 11mo ago
      The rooftop Koreans were awesome. Modern day cowboys.
- m-hodges 11mo ago
  I assume the social media consumption of [whatever you think the opposite groups are] is also a couple standard deviations above what’s healthy.
- ekidd 11mo ago
  I know a bunch of trans gun owners. They're pretty standard gun geeks, and a few of them do shooting competitions. I've asked them how they got into shooting sports, and a lot times, they tell me some pretty scary stories of real-life encounters with bigots. Some have also encountered armed right-wing protestors outside of a bar that held a late evening drag event. So at least among the people I've met out in the real world, it was fairly common to be motivated by specific real-life events. The numbers might be different for gun owners who don't go to the range regularly.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 11mo ago
    The whole topic reminds me of Deviant Ollam's talk "Lawyer. Passport. Locksmith. Gun." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI) He spends a fair amount of time talking about getting his queer and trans friends interested in guns. I suspect this has been the trend for a few years, at least. He includes a quote that is rather salient: "If you do not have the means of violence, you aren't peaceful; you're harmless."
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  I bet they drink a lot of fluoridated water, too.
SunshineTheCat 11mo ago
[flagged]
tharne 11mo ago
This makes sense. If one of your political platforms is to weaken and reduce the police force, then buying a gun is a very logical and practical thing to do.
- happytoexplain 11mo ago
  This seems dishonest. Surely the liberal position - on average - is the rejection of dangerous police, even if that means rejecting a large number of police officers, until the police force (nationally and/or locally) is once again a trustworthy foundation of democratic civilization? The unfortunate reality is that, when you have a class of people with authority and guns, even if only a small minority of them are dangerous, that immediately ruins the image of the whole thing until they are rooted out. Americans have historically proven that, if there's one thing they won't stand for, it's being oppressed/frightened by those in power.
  - HeinzStuckeIt 11mo ago
    That might be the liberal position on average, but if you have a social circle that’s lefter than average, as in many metro areas, you’ll occasionally hear a desire for outright abolition of police. Not even a simple local constabulary walking the beat, as there is a meme going around that such law enforcement came out of gangs that hunted down fugitive slaves and is inherently tainted. (Nevermind the existence of such police in countries around the world that never had race-based chattel slavery.) Instead, more investment in social services will supposedly remove the need for them entirely. But of course, whether that position or the number of people who hold it, has any real influence on gun sales is doubtful and the GP may have been a bait post.
    - testing22321 11mo ago
      I have never in my life heard or read anyone, of any social standing, political affiliation, education or station of life discuss the abolition of police entirely. Is this like “they’re eating dogs!”?
jauntywundrkind 11mo ago
Ratio of gun ownership per party has shifted maybe from 40:1 to 39.99:1. While this is real, by the numbers it's inconsequential and of no note. But it is a vibe shift. Both inconsequential. But: this is worth noting. And it's just cursed as frell that the left has seen such a shift that they abandon governance, abandon the state, feel the Dont Step On Me militarizing insanitude viruses that has afflicted & demented so much of America for hundreds of years. One of the circulated highly-discussed topics of the day on BlueSky was The South. There was a lot of dragging & disdain, and some occasional 'I can't believe we're being so hostile here' outcries, but largely just bitter anger that US history has faced such a strong adversary against equanimity, such a tilted wild force built so purely around negative hateful biases that has resorted to such violence & force again and again. That violent clutching to illegitemacy has ridden so rough-shod over America for so very deep long, has once again gotten such an enormous violent clutch-hold over the land. But with regards to this article: the tables aren't tipping IMO. Nothing's changing, violence wise. The violence insurrectionist tendencies are still 100% on one side. None of the people who were wetting their pants / podcasting ad infinitum about Jade Helm (a hypothetical violent government takeover of states) have said a peep about the radically unprecedented incursion of military forces into peaceful "what so happens to be"-liberal American cities. I empathize strongly with those who see whats happening, the horrific vile acts & the enjoyment of despicability/deplorability, who decide to arm up. But this story is about exceptions that prove the rule. This story is a tell: a tell about how brutal and mean and nasty much of America is, and how 0.02% of the good decent respectful folk have decided that, for their basic most primitive safety, they have to go buy guns. Most such calls for arms have never been in any real sense out of defense, IMO. The longer story, what the viewpoint should really be looking at, is how radical and extremist so much of America has been for so long. How much they defy (have defied for getting near two centuries) even the most basic constitutional calls for respect & peace are, and how armed they've made themselves to resist the state/become an vigilante force of fear/terror/oppression. This minor anomaly is an indicator that the corrupt pro-violence mafia-state has just gotten way way too uppity & dangerous. But in truth, very few of even these people have any hope of resisting this bitter violence-happy mafia-state if these hooligans keep escalating.
- delichon 11mo ago
m-hodges 11mo ago
In case anyone is actually interested in US gun ownership trends in the data — instead of just posting your prior-affirming vibe take — there is a lot of data.¹𝄒² ¹ https://news.gallup.com/poll/653621/gun-ownership-rates-spiked-among-republican-women.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/653621/gun-ownership-rates-spik... ² https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
- esseph 11mo ago
  Hmmm Results Overall, 11% of respondents reported purchasing a gun since 1/1/20, 35% for the first time. Among recent purchasers, larger proportions of Democrat, Black, Asian, and Hispanic respondents were new gun owners than Republican or white respondents. Compared to prior owners, odds were 4.5-times higher that new gun owners’ recent purchase was motivated by racial violence and 3.2-times higher for political violence. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11378614/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11378614/
EverydayBalloon 11mo ago
[dead]
RickJWagner 11mo ago
What does the Gun Control side of the left have to say about this? Will the factions just politely agree not to talk about it?
- happytoexplain 11mo ago
  I am a staunchly pro gun-control leftist and I own a gun. Are you trying to imply that gun control means "nobody can have guns", or something similarly incompatible with gun ownership?
  - SauciestGNU 11mo ago
    I'm basically the opposite of you (leftist, opposed to gun control as it's been implemented in our country). I am frustrated by model and feature bans and magazine capacity bans. I am frustrated by the new push to ban self-manufactured firearms, something that has always been legal in the US but now that 3d printing has made it more attainable it's a target for bans. It would be one thing if these laws were studied and shown to reduce gun crime. But I'm not seeing data, I'm seeing "guns are bad" vibes from Democrats while there are armed Nazi goon squads kidnapping people off the streets.
    - nondrool 11mo ago
      What did the kidnappers demand? I find it odd the amount of families kidnapping their own family members lately, as that's typically the only time demands aren't made by kidnappers. Don't think that would make them a Nazi though. Not to say there aren't any, but in modern times they're located in Ukraine. Azov Batallion has videos posted where they have whole stadiums filled with them doing their chant? which is disturbing. Either way stay strong. They'll call if they haven't yet.
      - SauciestGNU 11mo ago
        The Nazis in Azov have largely been killed and replaced with new troops. The Nazis in America are running rampant snatching civilians off the streets. Critical difference.
1659447091 11mo ago
I don't see much difference with this than when gun buying spikes after publicized mass shootings[0]. Gun sales also spike when new gun control laws are proposed. People are afraid (however unfounded) that their right to protect themselves and their family will be taken away. It use to be one of the biggest issues to scare people into voting republican (at least in Texas), the boogyman threat that "they" are coming for your guns and taking your right to protect yourself always came up just before important elections. When the government's tagline as "cruelty is the point" and people find themselves on the wrong side of that it's gonna scare a few of them, and scared people buy guns -- "identity" and sides stop mattering. [0] https://law.stanford.edu/press/gun-sales-us-spike-mass-shootings/ https://law.stanford.edu/press/gun-sales-us-spike-mass-shoot...
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  You've described the "what". The article is about the "who". "Who" makes it newsworthy.
  - 1659447091 11mo ago
    True. And I agree in a clickbait sort of way; it could have been better if they focused more on the overall fear part that drives gun sale spikes(regardless of who). I find understanding why the "who" are buying guns at greater rates to be an important point to understand gun buying spikes/trends. And if the who gets people new to the subject to read about it then okay, but it should not be overlooked that scared people of all kinds buy guns, and then maybe we can move to looking at why we accept our political apparatus scaring people (of all kinds) in the first place.

61 points by makerdiety 11mo ago

catigula 11mo ago

>This story was based on more than 30 interviews Yikes

nomel 11mo ago
I'd be interesting in seeing the recruitment method and spatial distribution of those 30.
- 000ooo000 11mo ago
  Subjects selected from local gun store line
- greenavocado 11mo ago
  The student-run cafe in the basement of the Sociology building, whose patio opens onto the main quad's designated protest lawn.

warbaker 11mo ago

See https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/ https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/

unionjack22 11mo ago

I’m really curious about the amount of screen time and news/social media consumption of these groups. I assume it’s a couple standard deviations above what’s healthy.

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
happytoexplain 11mo ago
Why would you explicitly assume something that confirms your bias? Why not just say that you suspect a trend? Individual anecdote, but I bought a pistol for defense in the US because of the (two way) threats I constantly read and hear in my real life, and I do not consume any social media. No Twitter, no Facebook. I don't read news outside HN, my local paper, and the occasional CS Monitor story. I rarely sit around scrolling TikTok/YouTube/etc on my phone, and when I do, it thankfully just shows me engineering/trades stuff (BigClive type stuff, plumbers, etc). Admittedly, I have visited 4chan occasionally since it was established. My opinion is: It's fallacious to imply that the hatred and violence of Americans against Americans is negligible, and could only be considered a real problem through the lens of dishonest media. Yes, consuming garbage media will amplify that fear, but the fear is absolutely, obviously based on real, actual attitudes and words in the US.
- integralid 11mo ago
  >because of the (two way) threats I constantly hear and read, and I do not consume any social media Where do you hear the threats then? In real life? Are they quoted in the local news you read? (Sight nitpick - HN is social media)
- qwerpy 11mo ago
  In my social circle (mostly Asian tech employees in the PNW) there were many first-time gun purchases immediately after the social unrest in 2020. Hysterical social media posts about "the riots are going to come to the suburbs" factored into it. The fears ended up being completely overblown. Now there are different groups of people who are predicting violence and feeling the need to do something about it. Too early to tell whether the fears are overblown this time around as well. In any case, I hope all first-time gun owners properly train with them and secure their guns at home. I wouldn't be surprised if the main outcome of both of these clusters of gun buying is not actual defense against the feared threats, but that guns get stolen and used for crimes.
  - RickJWagner 11mo ago
    The rooftop Koreans were awesome. Modern day cowboys.
m-hodges 11mo ago
I assume the social media consumption of [whatever you think the opposite groups are] is also a couple standard deviations above what’s healthy.
ekidd 11mo ago
I know a bunch of trans gun owners. They're pretty standard gun geeks, and a few of them do shooting competitions. I've asked them how they got into shooting sports, and a lot times, they tell me some pretty scary stories of real-life encounters with bigots. Some have also encountered armed right-wing protestors outside of a bar that held a late evening drag event. So at least among the people I've met out in the real world, it was fairly common to be motivated by specific real-life events. The numbers might be different for gun owners who don't go to the range regularly.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 11mo ago
  The whole topic reminds me of Deviant Ollam's talk "Lawyer. Passport. Locksmith. Gun." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI) He spends a fair amount of time talking about getting his queer and trans friends interested in guns. I suspect this has been the trend for a few years, at least. He includes a quote that is rather salient: "If you do not have the means of violence, you aren't peaceful; you're harmless."
IAmBroom 11mo ago
I bet they drink a lot of fluoridated water, too.

SunshineTheCat 11mo ago

[flagged]

tharne 11mo ago

This makes sense. If one of your political platforms is to weaken and reduce the police force, then buying a gun is a very logical and practical thing to do.

happytoexplain 11mo ago
This seems dishonest. Surely the liberal position - on average - is the rejection of dangerous police, even if that means rejecting a large number of police officers, until the police force (nationally and/or locally) is once again a trustworthy foundation of democratic civilization? The unfortunate reality is that, when you have a class of people with authority and guns, even if only a small minority of them are dangerous, that immediately ruins the image of the whole thing until they are rooted out. Americans have historically proven that, if there's one thing they won't stand for, it's being oppressed/frightened by those in power.
- HeinzStuckeIt 11mo ago
  That might be the liberal position on average, but if you have a social circle that’s lefter than average, as in many metro areas, you’ll occasionally hear a desire for outright abolition of police. Not even a simple local constabulary walking the beat, as there is a meme going around that such law enforcement came out of gangs that hunted down fugitive slaves and is inherently tainted. (Nevermind the existence of such police in countries around the world that never had race-based chattel slavery.) Instead, more investment in social services will supposedly remove the need for them entirely. But of course, whether that position or the number of people who hold it, has any real influence on gun sales is doubtful and the GP may have been a bait post.
  - testing22321 11mo ago
    I have never in my life heard or read anyone, of any social standing, political affiliation, education or station of life discuss the abolition of police entirely. Is this like “they’re eating dogs!”?

jauntywundrkind 11mo ago

Ratio of gun ownership per party has shifted maybe from 40:1 to 39.99:1. While this is real, by the numbers it's inconsequential and of no note. But it is a vibe shift. Both inconsequential. But: this is worth noting. And it's just cursed as frell that the left has seen such a shift that they abandon governance, abandon the state, feel the Dont Step On Me militarizing insanitude viruses that has afflicted & demented so much of America for hundreds of years. One of the circulated highly-discussed topics of the day on BlueSky was The South. There was a lot of dragging & disdain, and some occasional 'I can't believe we're being so hostile here' outcries, but largely just bitter anger that US history has faced such a strong adversary against equanimity, such a tilted wild force built so purely around negative hateful biases that has resorted to such violence & force again and again. That violent clutching to illegitemacy has ridden so rough-shod over America for so very deep long, has once again gotten such an enormous violent clutch-hold over the land. But with regards to this article: the tables aren't tipping IMO. Nothing's changing, violence wise. The violence insurrectionist tendencies are still 100% on one side. None of the people who were wetting their pants / podcasting ad infinitum about Jade Helm (a hypothetical violent government takeover of states) have said a peep about the radically unprecedented incursion of military forces into peaceful "what so happens to be"-liberal American cities. I empathize strongly with those who see whats happening, the horrific vile acts & the enjoyment of despicability/deplorability, who decide to arm up. But this story is about exceptions that prove the rule. This story is a tell: a tell about how brutal and mean and nasty much of America is, and how 0.02% of the good decent respectful folk have decided that, for their basic most primitive safety, they have to go buy guns. Most such calls for arms have never been in any real sense out of defense, IMO. The longer story, what the viewpoint should really be looking at, is how radical and extremist so much of America has been for so long. How much they defy (have defied for getting near two centuries) even the most basic constitutional calls for respect & peace are, and how armed they've made themselves to resist the state/become an vigilante force of fear/terror/oppression. This minor anomaly is an indicator that the corrupt pro-violence mafia-state has just gotten way way too uppity & dangerous. But in truth, very few of even these people have any hope of resisting this bitter violence-happy mafia-state if these hooligans keep escalating.

delichon 11mo ago

m-hodges 11mo ago

In case anyone is actually interested in US gun ownership trends in the data — instead of just posting your prior-affirming vibe take — there is a lot of data.¹𝄒² ¹ https://news.gallup.com/poll/653621/gun-ownership-rates-spiked-among-republican-women.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/653621/gun-ownership-rates-spik... ² https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

esseph 11mo ago
Hmmm Results Overall, 11% of respondents reported purchasing a gun since 1/1/20, 35% for the first time. Among recent purchasers, larger proportions of Democrat, Black, Asian, and Hispanic respondents were new gun owners than Republican or white respondents. Compared to prior owners, odds were 4.5-times higher that new gun owners’ recent purchase was motivated by racial violence and 3.2-times higher for political violence. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11378614/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11378614/

EverydayBalloon 11mo ago

[dead]

RickJWagner 11mo ago

What does the Gun Control side of the left have to say about this? Will the factions just politely agree not to talk about it?

happytoexplain 11mo ago
I am a staunchly pro gun-control leftist and I own a gun. Are you trying to imply that gun control means "nobody can have guns", or something similarly incompatible with gun ownership?
- SauciestGNU 11mo ago
  I'm basically the opposite of you (leftist, opposed to gun control as it's been implemented in our country). I am frustrated by model and feature bans and magazine capacity bans. I am frustrated by the new push to ban self-manufactured firearms, something that has always been legal in the US but now that 3d printing has made it more attainable it's a target for bans. It would be one thing if these laws were studied and shown to reduce gun crime. But I'm not seeing data, I'm seeing "guns are bad" vibes from Democrats while there are armed Nazi goon squads kidnapping people off the streets.
  - nondrool 11mo ago
    What did the kidnappers demand? I find it odd the amount of families kidnapping their own family members lately, as that's typically the only time demands aren't made by kidnappers. Don't think that would make them a Nazi though. Not to say there aren't any, but in modern times they're located in Ukraine. Azov Batallion has videos posted where they have whole stadiums filled with them doing their chant? which is disturbing. Either way stay strong. They'll call if they haven't yet.
    - SauciestGNU 11mo ago
      The Nazis in Azov have largely been killed and replaced with new troops. The Nazis in America are running rampant snatching civilians off the streets. Critical difference.

1659447091 11mo ago

I don't see much difference with this than when gun buying spikes after publicized mass shootings[0]. Gun sales also spike when new gun control laws are proposed. People are afraid (however unfounded) that their right to protect themselves and their family will be taken away. It use to be one of the biggest issues to scare people into voting republican (at least in Texas), the boogyman threat that "they" are coming for your guns and taking your right to protect yourself always came up just before important elections. When the government's tagline as "cruelty is the point" and people find themselves on the wrong side of that it's gonna scare a few of them, and scared people buy guns -- "identity" and sides stop mattering. [0] https://law.stanford.edu/press/gun-sales-us-spike-mass-shootings/ https://law.stanford.edu/press/gun-sales-us-spike-mass-shoot...

IAmBroom 11mo ago
You've described the "what". The article is about the "who". "Who" makes it newsworthy.
- 1659447091 11mo ago
  True. And I agree in a clickbait sort of way; it could have been better if they focused more on the overall fear part that drives gun sale spikes(regardless of who). I find understanding why the "who" are buying guns at greater rates to be an important point to understand gun buying spikes/trends. And if the who gets people new to the subject to read about it then okay, but it should not be overlooked that scared people of all kinds buy guns, and then maybe we can move to looking at why we accept our political apparatus scaring people (of all kinds) in the first place.