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It always has been. Our problem is switching over existing infrastructure without asinine complainers ruining the revolution. We can't even declare total victor

by 1970-01-01 1y ago

It always has been. Our problem is switching over existing infrastructure without asinine complainers ruining the revolution. We can't even declare total victory with LED bulbs over incandescent. The war to have solar plants over more coal is falling back to coal thanks mostly to AI. Pushback on geothermal will arrive, I guarantee it.

velcrovan 1y ago
> falling back to coal thanks mostly to AI citation needed
- 1970-01-01 1y ago
  https://fortune.com/2025/08/31/ai-data-center-boom-old-coal-plants/ https://fortune.com/2025/08/31/ai-data-center-boom-old-coal-...
- driggs 1y ago
  There is an enormous push to build and power data centers in the DC / Northern Virginia region, and there's legislation in West Virginia right now requiring all coal-fired power plants to operate at at least 69% capacity at all times to support it. > “West Virginia has numerous coal plants that have powered this country for decades. We need these plants to remain operational,” [WV Governor] Morrisey said. “… We will never turn our backs on our existing coal plants and we will work with the federal government to pursue new coal-fired generation.” https://westvirginiawatch.com/2025/09/11/morrisey-shares-new-energy-plan-for-wv-relying-heavily-on-coal-natural-gas-to-grow-power-creation/ https://westvirginiawatch.com/2025/09/11/morrisey-shares-new... https://wvpublic.org/story/energy-environment/data-center-bill-contains-provisions-to-benefit-coal/ https://wvpublic.org/story/energy-environment/data-center-bi... https://www.wvlegislature.gov/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?billdoc=hb2014%20intr.htm&yr=2025&sesstype=RS&i=2014 https://www.wvlegislature.gov/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?bil...
  - dalyons 1y ago
    The only way new coal plants get built from today on is with massive lifetime subsidies, because they are uncompetitive. Ie, if they get built it’s for dumb politics not economics
  - Maken 1y ago
    That sounds like they want to subsidize the coal industry. AI is just the excuse.
parineum 1y ago
> The war to have solar plants over more coal is falling back to coal thanks mostly to AI. Also, due to solar not panning out at scale.[1] More seriously, coal is just cheaper and, with incentives being removed for green energy, it's the cheapest and fastest option to deploy. It's dead simple and well understood reliable power. [1]https://apnews.com/article/california-solar-energy-ivanpah-birds-tortoises-mojave-6d91c36a1ff608861d5620e715e1141c https://apnews.com/article/california-solar-energy-ivanpah-b...
- outside1234 1y ago
  The example you chose is of a mirror based Solar system, which yes, is an obsolete technology. Direct solar continues to be installed at greater amounts every year and coal is economically uncompetitive with basic anything (which is why it is collapsing), and especially against natural gas.
  - glenstein 1y ago
    You're exactly right and it raises a question for me. Why do energy generation topics bring people out of the woodworks who cite some very idiosycratic one-off and use it to make out-of-proportion declarations about the utility of a given technology? This is the second one I've seen suggesting solar is doomed when they mean mirrors. On twitter I saw someone claim PV is useless for heat because non-PV solar water heating is just so much more efficient. Not even true (I think it's a approximately a wash, different advantages in different applications), but very strangely in the weeds on a specific topic. Much too narrow a factual context to substantiate general level claims about solar as an energy writ large. I think for whatever reason the missing the forest for the trees trap is really potent in energy discussions.
    - marcosdumay 1y ago
      > Why do energy generation topics bring people out of the woodworks who cite some very idiosycratic one-off and use it to make out-of-proportion declarations about the utility of a given technology? They either have only read propaganda pieces from fossil fuel producers or are trying to create some of those. I would expect the number of people that honestly don't know anything but propaganda to be way higher than the number of people creating propaganda. But there's probably a selection bias due to HN being a somewhat large site with some influence on SEO and AI training.
quacked 1y ago
> We can't even declare total victory with LED bulbs over incandescent. The LED bulbs I have access to (whatever's in the aisles at Home Depot, Costco, etc.) fail much more frequently than the incandescent bulbs I used to buy, and produce an uglier light that is less warm even on the softest/warmest color settings. My suspicion is that incandescents were at the "end" of their product lifecycle (high quality available for cheap) and LEDs are nearing the middle (medium quality available for cheap), and that I should buy more expensive LED bulbs, but I still think that there are valid "complaints" against the state of widespread LED lighting. I hope these complaints become invalid within a decade, but for now I still miss the experience of buildings lit by incandescent light. The other thing with AI--the LED revolution was led on this idea that we all need to work as hard as we can to save energy, but now apparently with AI that's no longer the case, and while I understand that this is just due to which political cabals have control of the regulatory machinery at any given time, it's still frustrating.
- drcongo 1y ago
  Maybe buy your bulbs somewhere else? I'm yet to replace any of the LED bulbs I've bought over the past 15 years and honestly can't even remember the last time a bulb failed.
  - drcongo 1y ago
    Actually, since posting this I've vaguely remembered a previous discussion on here about differences between LED bulbs sold in the US and those sold in UK/EU so maybe that explains it.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    Mine fail all the time. Cheap Amazon Basics, expensive Phillips. Do they fail more than incandescents? idk maybe not, but they fail much more often than their advertising would suggest.
- quickthrowman 1y ago
  > The LED bulbs I have access to (whatever's in the aisles at Home Depot, Costco, etc.) fail much more frequently than the incandescent bulbs I used to buy, and produce an uglier light that is less warm even on the softest/warmest color settings. LED lamps work just fine, you just need to pay more attention when you’re buying them. Philips makes decent LED lamps. Make sure you’re buying lamps with 90+ CRI, that will help with the quality of light. 2700K is a good color temp for indoor living room/dining room/bedroom lighting, 3500-4000K for kitchen/garage/task lighting. You also need to buy special lamps if you put them in an enclosed fixture, look for ‘enclosed fixture’ rated lamps. Regular LED lamps will overheat in an enclosed fixture.

velcrovan 1y ago

> falling back to coal thanks mostly to AI citation needed

1970-01-01 1y ago
https://fortune.com/2025/08/31/ai-data-center-boom-old-coal-plants/ https://fortune.com/2025/08/31/ai-data-center-boom-old-coal-...
driggs 1y ago
There is an enormous push to build and power data centers in the DC / Northern Virginia region, and there's legislation in West Virginia right now requiring all coal-fired power plants to operate at at least 69% capacity at all times to support it. > “West Virginia has numerous coal plants that have powered this country for decades. We need these plants to remain operational,” [WV Governor] Morrisey said. “… We will never turn our backs on our existing coal plants and we will work with the federal government to pursue new coal-fired generation.” https://westvirginiawatch.com/2025/09/11/morrisey-shares-new-energy-plan-for-wv-relying-heavily-on-coal-natural-gas-to-grow-power-creation/ https://westvirginiawatch.com/2025/09/11/morrisey-shares-new... https://wvpublic.org/story/energy-environment/data-center-bill-contains-provisions-to-benefit-coal/ https://wvpublic.org/story/energy-environment/data-center-bi... https://www.wvlegislature.gov/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?billdoc=hb2014%20intr.htm&yr=2025&sesstype=RS&i=2014 https://www.wvlegislature.gov/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?bil...
- dalyons 1y ago
  The only way new coal plants get built from today on is with massive lifetime subsidies, because they are uncompetitive. Ie, if they get built it’s for dumb politics not economics
- Maken 1y ago
  That sounds like they want to subsidize the coal industry. AI is just the excuse.

parineum 1y ago

> The war to have solar plants over more coal is falling back to coal thanks mostly to AI. Also, due to solar not panning out at scale.[1] More seriously, coal is just cheaper and, with incentives being removed for green energy, it's the cheapest and fastest option to deploy. It's dead simple and well understood reliable power. [1]https://apnews.com/article/california-solar-energy-ivanpah-birds-tortoises-mojave-6d91c36a1ff608861d5620e715e1141c https://apnews.com/article/california-solar-energy-ivanpah-b...

outside1234 1y ago
The example you chose is of a mirror based Solar system, which yes, is an obsolete technology. Direct solar continues to be installed at greater amounts every year and coal is economically uncompetitive with basic anything (which is why it is collapsing), and especially against natural gas.
- glenstein 1y ago
  You're exactly right and it raises a question for me. Why do energy generation topics bring people out of the woodworks who cite some very idiosycratic one-off and use it to make out-of-proportion declarations about the utility of a given technology? This is the second one I've seen suggesting solar is doomed when they mean mirrors. On twitter I saw someone claim PV is useless for heat because non-PV solar water heating is just so much more efficient. Not even true (I think it's a approximately a wash, different advantages in different applications), but very strangely in the weeds on a specific topic. Much too narrow a factual context to substantiate general level claims about solar as an energy writ large. I think for whatever reason the missing the forest for the trees trap is really potent in energy discussions.
  - marcosdumay 1y ago
    > Why do energy generation topics bring people out of the woodworks who cite some very idiosycratic one-off and use it to make out-of-proportion declarations about the utility of a given technology? They either have only read propaganda pieces from fossil fuel producers or are trying to create some of those. I would expect the number of people that honestly don't know anything but propaganda to be way higher than the number of people creating propaganda. But there's probably a selection bias due to HN being a somewhat large site with some influence on SEO and AI training.

quacked 1y ago

> We can't even declare total victory with LED bulbs over incandescent. The LED bulbs I have access to (whatever's in the aisles at Home Depot, Costco, etc.) fail much more frequently than the incandescent bulbs I used to buy, and produce an uglier light that is less warm even on the softest/warmest color settings. My suspicion is that incandescents were at the "end" of their product lifecycle (high quality available for cheap) and LEDs are nearing the middle (medium quality available for cheap), and that I should buy more expensive LED bulbs, but I still think that there are valid "complaints" against the state of widespread LED lighting. I hope these complaints become invalid within a decade, but for now I still miss the experience of buildings lit by incandescent light. The other thing with AI--the LED revolution was led on this idea that we all need to work as hard as we can to save energy, but now apparently with AI that's no longer the case, and while I understand that this is just due to which political cabals have control of the regulatory machinery at any given time, it's still frustrating.

drcongo 1y ago
Maybe buy your bulbs somewhere else? I'm yet to replace any of the LED bulbs I've bought over the past 15 years and honestly can't even remember the last time a bulb failed.
- drcongo 1y ago
  Actually, since posting this I've vaguely remembered a previous discussion on here about differences between LED bulbs sold in the US and those sold in UK/EU so maybe that explains it.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Mine fail all the time. Cheap Amazon Basics, expensive Phillips. Do they fail more than incandescents? idk maybe not, but they fail much more often than their advertising would suggest.
quickthrowman 1y ago
> The LED bulbs I have access to (whatever's in the aisles at Home Depot, Costco, etc.) fail much more frequently than the incandescent bulbs I used to buy, and produce an uglier light that is less warm even on the softest/warmest color settings. LED lamps work just fine, you just need to pay more attention when you’re buying them. Philips makes decent LED lamps. Make sure you’re buying lamps with 90+ CRI, that will help with the quality of light. 2700K is a good color temp for indoor living room/dining room/bedroom lighting, 3500-4000K for kitchen/garage/task lighting. You also need to buy special lamps if you put them in an enclosed fixture, look for ‘enclosed fixture’ rated lamps. Regular LED lamps will overheat in an enclosed fixture.