6 ms·

A familiar story even today in the U.S: https://time.com/6997172/teen-torture-max-abuse-documentary/ https://time.com/6997172/teen-torture-max-abuse-documentar

by 3rodents 11mo ago

A familiar story even today in the U.S: https://time.com/6997172/teen-torture-max-abuse-documentary/ https://time.com/6997172/teen-torture-max-abuse-documentary/ “They are often a last resort for parents struggling with children with behavioral problems, suicidal thoughts, and substance abuse issues. Depending on the state, these rehab centers—a multi-billion-dollar industry—have few regulations, and there are no overarching federal standards governing them. Many are faith-based facilities designed to convert teens into born-again Christians and are therefore exempt from regulation in some states.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn-About_Ranch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn-About_Ranch https://helpingsurvivors.org/troubled-teen-programs/turn-about-ranch-abuse-allegations/ https://helpingsurvivors.org/troubled-teen-programs/turn-abo...

mothballed 11mo ago
Yesterday a popular post here advocated that your kids finding porn means you are guilty of 'neglect.' That's a serious criminal charge and accusation. People will take drastic steps to avoid prison. Natural result of that is catch-22, parent can't actually stop teenage kids from such activity except through what amounts to torture. As always either way, the parent is damned.
- Aeolun 11mo ago
  Damn, my whole country must be guilty of neglect then!
  - mothballed 11mo ago
    Lol this is the USA. I've been interrogated when a stranger drove past my rather remote property, in the middle of nowhere, and saw that my child was walking about 50 feet "by herself" on her own fucking property(I was actually watching her, just from further away, so I was able to intervene before they called CPS). Welcome to America where you must watch the kid every second until they turn 18, except at the moment they turn 18 they must be booted from the house to figure everything out all at once with nothing more than a minimum wage job, a gun, and rents that reach the stratosphere.
    - Duwensatzaj 11mo ago
      Free Range Kids organization has been fighting against this, and a number of states have passed laws around it.
    - bumblehean 11mo ago
      >Welcome to America where you must watch the kid every second until they turn 18 This must be a regional thing? I live in New England and I always see kids out and about with no adults around supervising. Especially from 1-3PM on weekdays when school lets out. Maybe a side-effect of walkable infrastructure.
    - TitaRusell 11mo ago
      Interestingly the same America were teenagers end up with Epstein. Or were you can "homeschool" your kids.
- twodave 11mo ago
  Sounds like either someone with very young kids or else someone with a dismissive/naive parenting style. For kids born since the mid-80s “hiding the porn” has been a lot harder than locking magazines in a closet. It’s not a matter of if, but when. And however you feel about porn, it’s infinitely more important to help your kids feel safe talking to you about it than to try and prevent them ever seeing it. Kids who don’t feel safe or tolerated will lie almost 100% of the time, at which point you can no longer help them. I say this as someone whose parents would rather have believed I wasn’t watching porn and therefore didn’t make the effort to normalize talking about sex at all. My wife and I do limit our kids’ access to the Internet quite a bit, but we aren’t naive to the fact that they’ll all see something at some point either.
  - mothballed 11mo ago
    >Sounds like either someone with very young kids or else someone with a dismissive/naive parenting style. Increasingly this is what the tyranny of the majority is in the western world. People who don't have kids, or only limited experience with kids, declaring that parents are neglecting or abusing their children because they don't behave the way the hypothetical ideologically pure parent would. Almost every single one of them has a cell-phone and the second they see something they disapprove of they can call CPS at the drop of a hat and make your life a living hell, even if you are 'innocent' of even whatever BS they made up. As always, it's just a smug attempt at moral superiority. They want the intoxicating power rush from threatening and imposing on parents, with none of the responsibility, and the state is all too happy to provide it to them. Just punish and then rest soundly knowing you have no kids of your own for which you could be prosecuted.
    - cindyllm 11mo ago
      [dead]
    - Dracophoenix 11mo ago
      > People who don't have kids, or only limited experience with kids, declaring that parents are neglecting or abusing their children because they don't behave the way the hypothetical ideologically pure parent would. From what I've witnessed, the most common complainants were authoritarian mothers who treat their own child(ren) as helpless irrespective of biological age, and teachers, usually with families of their own, who treat non-violent "quirks" beyond their comprehension as a sign of malfeasance. In both cases, lack of familiarity with children is not the issue. Instead, their previous "successes" with raising/teaching children cement a narrow and selective expectation for how children must or must be made to behave. The motivation in either case is a desire for control. The ideological/cultural angle is, at best, a sincerely held rationalization, but is more likely an instinctual employment of thought-terminating cliches/kafkatraps to justify getting their way or make dissenters look/feel unreasonable.
plqbfbv 11mo ago
If anybody wants to read a comic with the perspective of someone that went through one of these places and spent the years after fighting against them, I stumbled upon this one a few years ago: https://elan.school/ https://elan.school/ I am not in any way affiliated with the author, it's just one of the few books with real content that I've read in a long time.
- zoklet-enjoyer 11mo ago
  Great comic and there's a documentary about that place. Very messed up that's it's a whole child abuse industry.
  - nekusar 11mo ago
    Might take a karma hit for this, but whatever. Its the truth. Christians are more concerned about *causing* extreme child abuse, and then turning around and claiming its to "save them", so the abuse isnt reallllly abuse. Most of these camps cited are christian. And the people running them? Dogmatic christian fundamentalists. And these are the same types that run "pray the gay away" camps too. And my inflammatory, albeit true comment also goes right back to the heart of the article: "Reformatories were institutions where girls and young women who refused to conform to the Franco regime's Catholic values were detained - single mothers, girls with boyfriends, lesbians. Girls who'd been sexually assaulted were incarcerated, assuming the blame for their own abuse. Orphans and abandoned girls might also find themselves living behind convent walls." Extremist Roman Catholic "values", demonization and imprisonment of 'unruly women', anti-LGBTQ. Same damned thing, again and again. When are we going to actually look at these issues dispassionately and realize that religion itself is the problem?
    - HiPhish 11mo ago
      [flagged]
      - slumberlust 11mo ago
        It's possible to be moral without religion. Your assertion stands stronger with tribalism than religion.
rayiner 11mo ago
Meanwhile, we have a crisis in the U.S. of people sleeping and dying in the streets because we shut down all the mental hospitals and involuntary commitment. Every system will have some percentage of adverse outcomes. Approaching the issue emotionally instead of dispassionately and with a view towards typical outcomes is an anti-social and dangerous approach.
- _rbxu 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - AlexandrB 11mo ago
    I'm sorry, but you are completely strawmanning the parent. Nothing they said is typical of an "authoritarian lap dog". The point being made is rather modest: that sometimes involuntary commitment is necessary to help someone when their brain is working against them. Obviously this kind of power can be abused, but the current approach leaves those who need that kind of help to fend for themselves. But I guess involuntary commitment makes people feel icky so fuck those guys, right?
- cyost 11mo ago
  The purpose of a system is what it does. You seem to believe that these are adverse, uncommon, and unintended outcomes rather than part of the machinery of the troubled teen industry, the school-to-prison pipeline, poverty, and capitalist/protestant propaganda in general. Involuntary commitment would be a threat and weapon in the current political environment, as in the thread OP where the same was used in Francoist Spain. Perhaps you should investigate your own biases and emotions toward the people chewed up and spit out by society before calling out a comment as "emotional" and "anti-social".
  - AlexandrB 11mo ago
    You should read: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio...
stuckinhell 11mo ago
She threw molotov cockatails I don't think it's similar at all. she was lucky she wasn't imprisoned or executed
- maxldn 11mo ago
  Why do you keep saying she wasn’t imprisoned? She was imprisoned in a convent and then in a mental institution. Edit: clarification
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

mothballed 11mo ago

Yesterday a popular post here advocated that your kids finding porn means you are guilty of 'neglect.' That's a serious criminal charge and accusation. People will take drastic steps to avoid prison. Natural result of that is catch-22, parent can't actually stop teenage kids from such activity except through what amounts to torture. As always either way, the parent is damned.

Aeolun 11mo ago
Damn, my whole country must be guilty of neglect then!
- mothballed 11mo ago
  Lol this is the USA. I've been interrogated when a stranger drove past my rather remote property, in the middle of nowhere, and saw that my child was walking about 50 feet "by herself" on her own fucking property(I was actually watching her, just from further away, so I was able to intervene before they called CPS). Welcome to America where you must watch the kid every second until they turn 18, except at the moment they turn 18 they must be booted from the house to figure everything out all at once with nothing more than a minimum wage job, a gun, and rents that reach the stratosphere.
  - Duwensatzaj 11mo ago
    Free Range Kids organization has been fighting against this, and a number of states have passed laws around it.
  - bumblehean 11mo ago
    >Welcome to America where you must watch the kid every second until they turn 18 This must be a regional thing? I live in New England and I always see kids out and about with no adults around supervising. Especially from 1-3PM on weekdays when school lets out. Maybe a side-effect of walkable infrastructure.
  - TitaRusell 11mo ago
    Interestingly the same America were teenagers end up with Epstein. Or were you can "homeschool" your kids.
twodave 11mo ago
Sounds like either someone with very young kids or else someone with a dismissive/naive parenting style. For kids born since the mid-80s “hiding the porn” has been a lot harder than locking magazines in a closet. It’s not a matter of if, but when. And however you feel about porn, it’s infinitely more important to help your kids feel safe talking to you about it than to try and prevent them ever seeing it. Kids who don’t feel safe or tolerated will lie almost 100% of the time, at which point you can no longer help them. I say this as someone whose parents would rather have believed I wasn’t watching porn and therefore didn’t make the effort to normalize talking about sex at all. My wife and I do limit our kids’ access to the Internet quite a bit, but we aren’t naive to the fact that they’ll all see something at some point either.
- mothballed 11mo ago
  >Sounds like either someone with very young kids or else someone with a dismissive/naive parenting style. Increasingly this is what the tyranny of the majority is in the western world. People who don't have kids, or only limited experience with kids, declaring that parents are neglecting or abusing their children because they don't behave the way the hypothetical ideologically pure parent would. Almost every single one of them has a cell-phone and the second they see something they disapprove of they can call CPS at the drop of a hat and make your life a living hell, even if you are 'innocent' of even whatever BS they made up. As always, it's just a smug attempt at moral superiority. They want the intoxicating power rush from threatening and imposing on parents, with none of the responsibility, and the state is all too happy to provide it to them. Just punish and then rest soundly knowing you have no kids of your own for which you could be prosecuted.
  - cindyllm 11mo ago
    [dead]
  - Dracophoenix 11mo ago
    > People who don't have kids, or only limited experience with kids, declaring that parents are neglecting or abusing their children because they don't behave the way the hypothetical ideologically pure parent would. From what I've witnessed, the most common complainants were authoritarian mothers who treat their own child(ren) as helpless irrespective of biological age, and teachers, usually with families of their own, who treat non-violent "quirks" beyond their comprehension as a sign of malfeasance. In both cases, lack of familiarity with children is not the issue. Instead, their previous "successes" with raising/teaching children cement a narrow and selective expectation for how children must or must be made to behave. The motivation in either case is a desire for control. The ideological/cultural angle is, at best, a sincerely held rationalization, but is more likely an instinctual employment of thought-terminating cliches/kafkatraps to justify getting their way or make dissenters look/feel unreasonable.

plqbfbv 11mo ago

If anybody wants to read a comic with the perspective of someone that went through one of these places and spent the years after fighting against them, I stumbled upon this one a few years ago: https://elan.school/ https://elan.school/ I am not in any way affiliated with the author, it's just one of the few books with real content that I've read in a long time.

zoklet-enjoyer 11mo ago
Great comic and there's a documentary about that place. Very messed up that's it's a whole child abuse industry.
- nekusar 11mo ago
  Might take a karma hit for this, but whatever. Its the truth. Christians are more concerned about *causing* extreme child abuse, and then turning around and claiming its to "save them", so the abuse isnt reallllly abuse. Most of these camps cited are christian. And the people running them? Dogmatic christian fundamentalists. And these are the same types that run "pray the gay away" camps too. And my inflammatory, albeit true comment also goes right back to the heart of the article: "Reformatories were institutions where girls and young women who refused to conform to the Franco regime's Catholic values were detained - single mothers, girls with boyfriends, lesbians. Girls who'd been sexually assaulted were incarcerated, assuming the blame for their own abuse. Orphans and abandoned girls might also find themselves living behind convent walls." Extremist Roman Catholic "values", demonization and imprisonment of 'unruly women', anti-LGBTQ. Same damned thing, again and again. When are we going to actually look at these issues dispassionately and realize that religion itself is the problem?
  - HiPhish 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - slumberlust 11mo ago
      It's possible to be moral without religion. Your assertion stands stronger with tribalism than religion.

rayiner 11mo ago

Meanwhile, we have a crisis in the U.S. of people sleeping and dying in the streets because we shut down all the mental hospitals and involuntary commitment. Every system will have some percentage of adverse outcomes. Approaching the issue emotionally instead of dispassionately and with a view towards typical outcomes is an anti-social and dangerous approach.

_rbxu 11mo ago
[flagged]
- AlexandrB 11mo ago
  I'm sorry, but you are completely strawmanning the parent. Nothing they said is typical of an "authoritarian lap dog". The point being made is rather modest: that sometimes involuntary commitment is necessary to help someone when their brain is working against them. Obviously this kind of power can be abused, but the current approach leaves those who need that kind of help to fend for themselves. But I guess involuntary commitment makes people feel icky so fuck those guys, right?
cyost 11mo ago
The purpose of a system is what it does. You seem to believe that these are adverse, uncommon, and unintended outcomes rather than part of the machinery of the troubled teen industry, the school-to-prison pipeline, poverty, and capitalist/protestant propaganda in general. Involuntary commitment would be a threat and weapon in the current political environment, as in the thread OP where the same was used in Francoist Spain. Perhaps you should investigate your own biases and emotions toward the people chewed up and spit out by society before calling out a comment as "emotional" and "anti-social".
- AlexandrB 11mo ago
  You should read: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio...

stuckinhell 11mo ago

She threw molotov cockatails I don't think it's similar at all. she was lucky she wasn't imprisoned or executed

maxldn 11mo ago
Why do you keep saying she wasn’t imprisoned? She was imprisoned in a convent and then in a mental institution. Edit: clarification

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]