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Better late than never. China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China. West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.
by juliusceasar 11mo ago
Better late than never.
China has so many anti-Foreigner laws for doing business in China.
West has made China rich and powerful in exchange for cheap labour.
- NoiseBert69 11mo agoI'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.
- lazyeye 11mo agoOur leaders in the West have been very naive. Also the Chinese "elite capture" program has been very effective.
- croes 11mo agoYou mean old we-don’t-care-bout-human-and-environmental-rights trick? Let’s face it, nobody would care if China just would be a subordinate receiver of orders. As soon they became a competitor there was a problem
- jajuuka 11mo agoAnd that is the core contention for the anti-China rhetoric. That they are a competitor. There are a billion and one reasons people say they don't like China, but the core issue is competition.
- dragonelite 11mo agoChina was suppose to become a giant sweatshop which would be allowed to gain subsistence wealth. Just enough to produce and consume western product but not wealthy enough to ever outgrow their station in the world.
- like_any_other 11mo ago> As soon they became a competitor there was a problem Was there? It seems to me trade and offshoring continued even after they became a competitor. And then continued after they strong-armed Western corporations to invest in China [1], destroyed Western corporations through espionage [2,3], or through subsidy-enabled dumping prices and preferential treatment [4,4.1], after they extracted groveling apologies from Western firms [5], and after they started operating literal police stations on Western soil [6], while turning Western countries into subordinate receivers of orders [7,8]. I guess you were hoping your framing would guilt people into not seeing the threat? [1] Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to develop China's economy and technological capabilities - https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secret-deal-with-china/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secr... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33758673 [3] https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-milita... [4] https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overproducing-green-tech/a-68782157 https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overpro... [4.1] EU: Anti-dumping probe into China solar panels - https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2a7cf https://apnews.com/general-news-e16007adf4bd468d9acf849734d2... [5] Mercedes-Benz apologizes to Chinese for quoting Dalai Lama - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe-idUSKBN1FQ1FJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mercedes-benz-china-gaffe... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_service_stations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_servic... [7] FIPA agreement with China: What's really in it for Canada? - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-what-s-really-in-it-for-canada-1.2770159 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fipa-agreement-with-china-wha... [8] Posters depicting Hong Kong protests removed by Massey University within 12 hours - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting-hong-kong-protests-removed-by-massey-university-within-12-hours https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116723925/posters-depicting...
- rando001111 11mo agothe west made a deal with the devil for cheap plastic trinkets and reaped what it sowed. that's why switching the manufacturing to India won't do any good either. domestic production or nothing. the "service economy" is a stupid concept.
- bulbar 11mo agoNobody would care if China were a democracy or at least not actively threatening Taiwan.
- DiogenesKynikos 11mo agoYou've got the "elite capture" story the wrong way around. Most of the Chinese elite send their children to study in Europe and the US.
- tharne 11mo agoThe only rule the Chinese play by is, "It's only immoral if you get caught".
- coliveira 11mo agoI thought this law was invented by American business.
- earthnail 11mo agoThe Germans invented that too. That’s why the label Made In Germany exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany
- amelius 11mo agoAmerican business has this law: "if your business practices are not immoral, then you're not doing it right!"
- ta12653421 11mo agoWell, as European, i have to clearly state - unfortunately - this is only because of what happened in the 20th century: WWII. This "event" changed somehow the psychology, not allowing the EU to "stand up straight with our shoulders back". Unfortunately. With around 500m customers, we could be powerful. But we arent: Stumbling upon our own feeds.
- earthnail 11mo agoThe countries that comprise the EU had been among the biggest warmongers for centuries. The EU is the most successful peace project the continent has ever seen. And the reason for that is that every country refrained from trying to be a superpower on the continent. The European mentality has real, tangible upsides for its continent. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work well in a larger world where other actors don’t share the same experience and values. Just wanted to put that into perspective.
- juliusceasar 11mo agoNow EU is making clear rules against China. EU should apply exactly the same laws against Chinese like Chinese do against foreigners. China shouldn't complain, especially don't bitch about racism.
- izacus 11mo agoThat's the same emotional dumb thought process that is sending US economy into tailspin with traiffs.
- echelon 11mo ago> especially don't bitch about racism. The "most racist" places are typically the most diverse and most multicultural. They have more exposed tissue than places where minorities make up single digit percentage points, so you see injustices more often in these places. And it follows that it gets reported on at volume. By that same coin, these places also have more friendly interactions by volume than places without diverse racial makeups. You just don't see that reported because it's not news. America, "racist", simply has a very diverse population. The American South, "racist against Black people", simply has the nation's largest population of Black people almost to the point the racial makeup is bimodal. Texas, "racist against Latinos", - same thing. You see the bad apples, but you don't see the overwhelming degree to which society works with people together in a melting pot. I grew up in the South, where every second person is Black. I fly to SF where there are barely any Black people at all and have dinner conversations with people calling my region racist. Sometimes the people saying these things grew up in all-white cities in New England. I have to laugh inside.
- skinnymuch 11mo agoSF region is gonna be racist among other things itself. That is true of all of America but there’s levels to this and American south is more racist. Don’t have to grow up in a diverse place to see/know that.
- like_any_other 11mo ago> they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Not really: https://www.hudson.org/technology/china-ignores-rule-of-law-to-dominate-global-telecommunications https://www.hudson.org/technology/china-ignores-rule-of-law-... Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to develop China's economy and technological capabilities - https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secret-deal-with-china/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/12/07/apple-ceo-tim-cook-secr...
- anonporridge 11mo agoThe rise of China has done a lot to destroy the neoliberal, globalist dream. Letting them cheat the globalist system (e.g. violating IP laws, human rights violations, Uyghur/Tibetan genocide) may have been fine when they were desperately poor, but there was always an implicit assumption that they would eventually start playing by the rules and culturally liberalize. But they're not. How can we hold onto ideals like "diversity is our strength" and open borders are good when China is kicking ass and threatening the balance of power as an insular ethnostate with one of the lowest rates of immigrants on the planet? And now they're growing to a power level that threatens to rival the US and its authority to police this global system we've created. That isn't stable, and the west would be insane to not shut China out and take a step back from our open, globalist ideals until we sort out this geopolitical game of thrones.
- jquery 11mo agoNo, just no. I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree in the strongest terms that copying China is the way forward. Closed, centralized models can scale quickly, as China did, but open models generate more frontier innovation and resilience. Iirc, nearly half of our unicorns have immigrant founders. Sure, let’s harden IP and other trade laws, and punish China for violations (start treating them as an adult, a nation peer, instead of a rowdy child). But giving up our strategic advantage because China was able to semi-copy-us without having that advantage would be a huge mistake imo. I’m not saying America doesn’t need major changes, but I don’t think the way forward is to close our borders to global talent. Instead, let’s take advantage of our superpower status to implement UHC and UBI, to make our nation even more attractive to talented immigrants.
- ta12653421 11mo agothis is what most WEIRD people do not understand: (Western-Educated-Industrial-Rich-Democratic) - by today it looks like that the Chinese system may proof to be more "performant" on most/several (all?) levels. Its hard to accept for libertarian minds, i guess. Once here on HN someone wrote like: "democratic systems seems to be too slow to adapt in world changing at our current speed". China did some vey wise decisions from their perspective; think about this joint-venture thingy that foreign companies need to have a JV partner which always holds at least 50.1% - very clever! Why did no western state do this? Its one of the by far smartest decision that you could do.
- ulfw 11mo agoAnd? So what? Who forced 'the west' to do that? American and European companies lived well this way for decades. Buying from and selling to China has been highly profitable. In fact Germany is doing terribly right now as China is buying LESS than before. So the answer is to do... erm... even less trade? Trumpian anti-globalist idiocy is growing in people's minds like a brain cancer
- llboston 11mo agoNot just for business. All foreigners in China must register their stay with the local police. Large hotels handle the registration automatically through their electronic reporting systems. However, if you’re staying at a friend’s home or another private residence, you need to go to the local police station and register in person.
- binarray2000 11mo agoIt is exactly the same in every EU country. Foreigners get registered or must register in person.
- jojomodding 11mo agoWrong. People that live here (in the EU) need to register. I can stay with friends abroad for some time without having to tell the government, as long as I don't take up residency.
- binarray2000 11mo agoI am talking about non-EU citizens who enter some of EU countries. No matter if they stay at the hotel or privately at relatives or friends they will be registered or must register at the police.
- DiogenesKynikos 11mo agoWhen you check into a hotel in Europe, they ask for your passport. Why do you think that is?