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How much useful combat skills can be taught in only a week? It seems like an extremely low estimate on the training needed to play a useful role in the military
by colonwqbang 11mo ago
How much useful combat skills can be taught in only a week? It seems like an extremely low estimate on the training needed to play a useful role in the military.
- notatoad 11mo agoi don't think they're really expecting people to serve a useful role in the military. it's a "supplemental reserve", meaning a level below ordinary reservists. it sounds like basically if the country was ever in a situation dire enough that they were calling on ordinary citizens to help with defense, an ordinary citizen with a week's training would be better than one with no training. or more cynically: it's a way to make a whole bunch of voters feel like they're involved in the military, to make military spending more palatable to voters.
- mcny 11mo agoMaybe I wouldn't be very useful in combat but maybe I can peel potatoes or mop the floors in case of an invasion. I am thinking it frees up someone who is "combat ready" from kitchen or janitor duty. It helps, right?
- notatoad 11mo agoexcept they say the training will include firearms and drone flight.
- imgabe 11mo agoEveryone in the military should be trained with weapons. If it comes down to it, even the guy who mops the floors is going to need to pick up a rifle if the situation is dire enough. It helps if he held one before at least.
- stackedinserter 11mo agoHow much will you "train with weapons" in one week?
- dmoy 11mo agoI mean.... enough to make shots on target at about 300-400 yards with a sling, and enough to make shots on target at about 50 yards while standing up. I do competitive bullseye rifle, and I've done some basic marksmanship coaching. That's about what I'd expect for maybe 6-12 hours of total training on a rifle for someone with zero prior experience with guns. The basics of rifles is very, very simple. In competition world we just get overly focused on stuff that doesn't matter - our benchmark is like 10/10 shots at 400 yards in an 8" circle. For someone getting basic instructions, 5/10 shots at 400 yards in a 16" circle is probably fine, and that is an order of magnitude easier to teach. It took me like 3 hours from zero experience to get to that, and another 300+ hours to get to competitively decent at prone (I might be good now but I'm not particularly skilled so it took me a lot of practice). And we're not going to talk about standing because in the competition world what we do is so far removed from reality that it's not worth talking about in this context lol. Someone with run&gun experience can talk about that, I don't know anything about that.
- asdff 11mo agoIt would probably take you a week just to be competent maintaining the rifle let alone shooting it.
- dmoy 11mo agoOk, it does not though. I have taught people with no experience and it takes <10 hours to get to making hits at 300-400 yards. Basic maintenance takes even less time to teach
- dmoy 11mo agoAnecdotally it can take more time to teach someone who has non-zero experience if that experience has bad habits attached
- sigwinch 11mo agoThe top brass in Canada would benefit to know who among the civil service has circuitry and dexterous control skills. And if it were me, I’d like a high-res scan of each person with the intent of precomputing who could convince ICE software of an already-established American’s identity.
- snypher 11mo agoWild, but I like the way you think.
- dmurray 11mo agoIn that case, how does the week's training help at all? Maybe it's helpful just for you to understand the way the military is organised: if you are conscripted you should report to this base, you'll sleep here, your commanding officer will be someone from this branch of the armed forces, you'll be in a group of X people sharing Y shifts, etc.
- imtringued 11mo agoIt's not even that. It's literally the equivalent of an assessment center. The military is basically looking for promising recruits ahead of time. It's not about having a week's worth of training. It's about knowing who did well or not.
- notatoad 11mo agoyeah, that makes sense. it's not about training somebody with a gun, it's about putting somebody on the list of "never ever give this guy a gun again"
- mrguyorama 11mo agoEvery combat soldier requires like 10 support soldiers doing things like logistics. Millions of people during WW2 did nothing but drive trucks. A lot of military burst capacity is about freeing up soldiers who went through all the training and basic and specialization, but are stuck driving that truck. The guys and gals who fire bullets are just the sharp point of the spear and all that. It's also why Russia ballooned their "National Guard" forces even though they cannot be deployed outside Russia; They free up soldiers who can. One of the most important things for a government in an actual "Oh shit real war" situation that requires significant mobilization is a simple census of "Who has the capability to do what menial job?"
- nradov 11mo agoThat's not how it works in any NATO military. Truck drivers and other logistics troops generally never went through any sort of advanced combat training. They can be retrained for another MOS with sufficient time but not quickly enough for any sort of crisis. And in volunteer forces, the troops driving trucks are generally doing that because they specifically enlisted to do that job.
- cogogo 11mo agoThe largest volunteer army in the world is the US Army. Please provide evidence that enlistees can specifically be truck drivers if they choose to be.
- nradov 11mo agoWhat a silly question. I don't need to provide you any evidence. Just walk down to your local recruiting office and ask. If you tell them that you want to enlist but will only do so if they guarantee a truck driver MOS on your contact then they'll absolutely take you unless they've already hit their limit for that fiscal year. HN is so weird sometimes. Like half the users seem to be aggressively ignorant of stuff that's common knowledge in the real world outside the tech industry. Or they expect to be spoon fed information that they could figure out themselves with a little research.
- Retric 11mo agoUseful for what role? It’s not obvious if someone has near significant or near zero training when they are acting as a stationary guard at a checkpoint etc. Which enables trained troops to preform more useful roles. They are significantly less likely to do the correct thing if attacked, but a war isn’t going to just be over in 24 hours either so they can be trained up on the job.
- stirfish 11mo agoMore likely driving trucks, cooking meals, filling out spreadsheets, etc
- newsclues 11mo agoJust enough to be dangerous.
- bpodgursky 11mo agoEven having up-to-date contact info, age, health records available for a population you know is physically able to serve is a big first step. Lot of logistics, most western countries don't want a draft that pulls randos off the street and shoves them in a van.
- toast0 11mo agoOne week a year might add up after a while. At least you might be able to reduce the time spent in training should an urgent (but not immediate) need arise. Maybe a few years of this and you can manage basic training in six weeks instead of the usual nine. It should help build training capacity. It would likely help a bit with human resource management should the need arise: having notes on who can handle a rifle, who can handle a truck, and who can handle a drone, etc might help match people with training for what's needed.
- AnotherGoodName 11mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Sumy_clashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Sumy_clashes had a large contingent of civilian volunteers that won decisively against the main Russian army. >Ukraine's paratroopers were ordered to withdraw from the city, leaving the city's defense to a few thousand local volunteers armed with rifles, limited anti-tank weapons and no armed vehicles or heavy weaponry.
- duxup 11mo agoI'm not sure that speaks to the quality of training considering the state of Russian forces, tanks driving alone, crews abandoning equipment, and so on.
- potato3732842 11mo agoA week is gonna be mostly "here's how to function in our organization, this is our trade specific vocabulary, here's a rifle and how you use it" You use your D-grade troops like that for behind the lines security. You use them to check papers at checkpoints, round up dissidents, keep people from taking pot shots at your supply lines, etc, etc, the kind of stuff you don't need expensive professional infantry[1] or even beat cops[2] for. [1] Who's expensive infantry skills are unessary overkill [2] Who can play checkpoint thug at the right level, but who have a bunch of needless expensive training put into them regarding laws, evidince, how to conduct a traffic stop, etc, etc, that is unnecessary.
- sigwinch 11mo agoI think you’re discounting what a physically-unacceptable soldier can do with a drone.
- fn-mote 11mo agoThat D rating isn’t for physically unacceptable. It’s for complete incompetence or at least just punching the time clock. A lifetime of working for a bureaucracy that doesn’t care for you isn’t going to bring out the best anywhere else, either. Especially not if that’s a one week a year mandatory service. (I didn’t read tfa.)
- firefax 11mo ago>How much useful combat skills can be taught in only a week? You'd be surprised how even a small amount of training can make you deadly with a rifle. Combine that with actually having thrown a grenade, been given training in laying of mines etc. Also, a huge chunk of "the military" is logistics -- the measure of a soldier is not always whether they can snipe someone from afar.
- al_be_back 11mo agoIt is relative, depends on the "type of warfare" being fought, and the countries/economies involved. In a high-tech modern warfare, the countries with a fighting force that has higher academic education, higher tech literacy are relatively quick to mobilize and become effective militarily.
- xarope 11mo agoshooting a rifle is "easy" to learn. That's why long guns are used. Hold+brace, point, aim reticle/scope, squeeze. handguns are harder, since you can't brace the stock against your shoulder, but need to learn how to brace with your wrists and arms. anti-tank weapons a bit harder still, since you need to maneuver properly and have multiple shooters at the same target. Also, I laugh/smirk everytime I see a movie where someone uses a LAW indoors or in an enclosed space/with someone standing behind. (I'm ignoring grenades; suffice to say it's not as easy to pull the pin with your teeth as you think) I think the hard part isn't the shooting, but the tactical movement side; L shape ambush or fire formation when under fire, or presence of mind to seek to leapfrog or flank, ability to communicate under pressure instead of just hunkering down or screaming your head off. It gets complicated very fast since there are vastly different tactics used in forest/vegetation versus urban warfare, and choosing the wrong tactic will get you shot fast (think chess openings; choose the wrong one and unless you are an expert - which you will not be with 1 week of training, you will get mated fast).
- tamimio 11mo agoHow much useful combat skills a forced draft will get you? In both it’s none, but the idea is to have a ready cannon fodders that can be utilized while keeping few core employees plus automation/AI to keep the government running if SHTF.
- Gud 11mo agoThey will be taught simple but effective instructions in how they are supposed to act in a severe crisis. Who to obey and simple instructions.
- kylehotchkiss 11mo agothis generation was raised on Call of Duty. As long as they remain faithful in an immediate respawn, they'll make brave soldiers.