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Carice TC2 – A non-digital electric car

298 points by RubenvanE 1y ago

0_____0 1y ago
Analog in what sense? No digital readouts? It has a standard EV charge port, so it's definitely got computers in it somewhere to negotiate charging at a minimum.
- imglorp 1y ago
  The post's title was editorialized: the archived page makes no mention of analog. The neutral title would be "The 100% electric Carice TC2: a real retro head-turner". I think OP meant there were no screens in the sparse cockpit, just some analog gauges. And yeah electric cars need a battery management computer, a charge controller, and a motor controller at least.
  - candiddevmike 1y ago
    Out of curiosity, are those components standardized/swappable between manufacturers/models, or customized for each individual make/model? So much of "old school" auto maintenance was having a relatively standardized size/fit for similar components.
    - waweic 1y ago
      Really interesting question! I have an unusual EV made by a relatively small company of which only a handful got to private customers, so if I want to fix something, I have to reverse-engineer it first. Most of the time, I will find out that the components used in my vehicle were also used in other cars. Regarding the difference between EVs and ICEVs, only the powertrain components are relevant and between those, some are more exchangeable and some are less so. As with ICEVs, most manufacturers have "platforms" that are shared between multiple makes/models. Having shared components with other vehicles of the same platform is the rule rather than the exception. In the cars I have seen, the whole battery often only fits that specific model, sometimes also for other cars within the same platform. The modules that make up the battery are often exchangeable with other cars made by the same company/group. The cells that make up the modules are almost always generic, but very hard to replace. The battery management system is usually specific to the battery. I don't know about the current state, but for early EVs the motor and inverter (which converts battery DC to AC for the motor) were often made by external suppliers. Especially EV variants of otherwise ICE-based vehicles like the Fiat e500, VW Golf/Jetta, and some french cars all use the same motor and inverter made by Bosch. If an inverter is connected to a different type of motor, it needs to be tuned for it which is not trivial. Onboard Chargers (OBCs), that convert AC line voltage from AC chargers to battery voltage are often quite generic and developed and manufactured by suppliers. They are almost always interchangeable within the same platform, but I haven't yet seen completely unrelated OEMs use the same OBC. The same applies to fast charging communications equipment, which is often integrated into the OBC. DC/DC converters (the alternator equivalent) are rarely separate components anymore and often integrated into either the OBC or the inverter. Voltage-wise, all these components are often surprisingly flexible and can be used with much lower voltages than their maximum rated voltage. Other components like contactors and connectors are very generic and I haven't yet seen one that only one OEM would use. There are likely exceptions to this. Often, the base components like the OBC or the inverter are almost identical, only using other (also generic) connectors. While technically all these components could be replaced in the "old school" style, almost all of them require either coding the components to the specific vehicle, or flashing an OEM-specific firmware. While the former is only doable with OEM-specific software (that is far too expensive for both indiviuals and most independent workshops), I haven't yet seen any example of the latter, at least not for swapping components between unrelated platforms. As of now, there are almost no "official" aftermarket replacements for these major components. I don't know of any major supplier that will directly sell parts in small quantities and OEMs likely won't sell you as an individual replacement parts either. For DIY repairs, finding used parts from wrecked cars and coding them with cracked software or having it done in an authorized workshop (if even possible) often seems to be the only option so far. Also, everyone will discourage you from working on your EV for "electrical safety" reasons (actually, it's more profitable if they do the work). Working on an EV is quite safe, if done right (which is not hard). Most of these limitations do not only apply to EVs, but to almost all modern cars. Often, the necessary work of reverse-engineering and cracking software has already been done for ICEVs for tuning purposes.
  - beardyw 1y ago
    Hell, I was souring through to see how they made it fully analogue. A stupid title.
    - rbanffy 1y ago
      Most likely step motors in the instruments. I am sure there is no analog voltage or pneumatic input to the dashboard.
      - formerly_proven 1y ago
        Neither was there in cars with dials 30 years ago.
        imglorp 1y ago
        The speedometer and odometer at least could be fully mechanical: they used to be gear reduced from a cable to the wheels or transmission.
        formerly_proven 1y ago
        That's the point, they could've hypothetically been analog but even in a 30 year old car they most likely weren't.
- ptsd_isv 1y ago
  You can negotiate charging with essentially a single resistor. Deciding when to stop / balancing cells etc is the harder problem.
  - Onavo 1y ago
    Well, OP Amps are technically "analog" too.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      Well, they could be using vacuum tubes…
    - kragen 1y ago
      Op-amps are absolutely, 100% analog in every sense; there's no need to limit this assertion with the nonstandard adverb "technically". The term "analog" was invented in the first place specifically to describe circuits made out of op-amps rather than "digital" circuits. And, yes, you can totally balance the charge on your cells using op-amps and similar analog circuits. You will probably want some sharp PWM waveforms in the circuit, but PWM isn't all the way to digital.
      - jesperwe 1y ago
        I would question whether a PWM "technically" counts as digital... It is on and off, sure, but so is a mechanical power switch, which few would describe as digital. "Digital" is more when we get higher level values represented by multiple signals that are on or off (aka bits).
        kragen 1y ago
        A mechanical power switch can certainly be digital; the Harvard Mark I digital computer was made entirely out of mechanical power switches, actuated by solenoids (so-called "relays"). It depends on how you use it—as you say, by combining multiple different bits, either simultaneously or serially. I agree that a PWM signal is not really a digital signal, but it's kind of on the edge—for example, https://tinyurl.com/25y54mph https://tinyurl.com/25y54mph is a simulation I designed of a completely analog PWM generator (a simulated LM324 op-amp, five transistors, 13 resistors, and a couple of caps), and several vendors offer better-designed versions of the same thing on an IC, but you can also get a perfectly adequate PWM signal out of a digital GPIO pin, and the PWM peripherals commonly included in microcontrollers are entirely digital.
- dlcarrier 1y ago
  It's a term usually used to describe the gauges/displays on the dash.
lysace 1y ago
Mirror: https://archive.is/ACbrd https://archive.is/ACbrd
- flobosg 1y ago
  (2023), at least based on that mirror.
gdotdesign 1y ago
Lovin' this! Though I'm not a fan of the design but like the spirit of it. I can't fathom why we can't have a modern car with analog displays and switches in the cockpit. I own a 25 years old car which only has a digital radio (removeable!) and that's it, perfectly enough.
- SirFatty 1y ago
  No fuel injection or electronic ignition? I'm sure there's an ECU somewhere in the vehicle.
  - regularfry 1y ago
    Not features found in the cockpit, unless you are not going to space today.
  - cameron_b 1y ago
    This is the sentiment completely. My 34-year old base spec Chevrolet has digital controls for timing advance, fuel trim, and integrated Engine and Transmission Control Units. But my dash has some analog components ( fuel level is variable voltage instead of PWM ). The mechanics would all say that my truck is very simple, and "old school" The Lay use of 'analog' is far removed from function. As long as there isn't a screen, it isn't seen to be digital. I studied photography in college and loved shooting film. I have a processing machine that is based on a 6502. When people would talk about non-digital things as analog it would bug me (One is chemical, and one is a computer).
    - calvinmorrison 1y ago
      The last real analog stuff would be either carb'd bikes / cars or mechanical fuel injection, which is the worst of both worlds. However, those ECUs are more closely related to embedded programming than digital dial outs and SIM Card loaded cars with a internal network canbus these days. Analog / Digital Inputs and outputs as a closed loop controller.
      - 1y ago
bityard 1y ago
Oh, yet another luxury EV. Wake me up when a manufacturer finally commits to making an EV that everyone can afford and isn't a cloud-connected privacy nightmare.
- ErroneousBosh 1y ago
  It's a few grand more than a Focus ST. Hardly "luxury" money.
  - zokier 1y ago
    For a toy? definitely "luxury money"
    - ErroneousBosh 1y ago
      I wouldn't say a "toy". Depending on your needs you could easily daily a 2-seater convertible with a couple of hundred miles range.
      - ibejoeb 1y ago
        Yeah toy might be a little negative. I think it's a leisure vehicle, and, at least as I read the marketing, they're leaning into that. Seems like the extended range model is 300km. If you need a car, you probably don't want it to be this one.
- Upvoter33 1y ago
  Don’t know the cost here but I would fathom it’s not “cloud connected”
  - brianshaler 1y ago
    > What is the price of a Carice TC2? > Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax).
herpdyderp 1y ago
Would be great to read about it but my residential internet has apparently been blocked for "malicious activity".
- chrsw 1y ago
  This is dangerously disruptive content.
- protoster 1y ago
  Residential internets are now proxies for AI scrapers. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45741357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45741357
  - fragmede 1y ago
    specifically, “free” VPN isn’t free. They use your computer that has the VPN software installed as an exit nodes for other customers. Those other customers hammer websites for their AI until it gets blocked. Sucks for you, unfortunately. Talk to your kids about the dangers of VPNs before it's too late.
    - cuu508 1y ago
      Which VPNs are like that?
      - fragmede 1y ago
        Hola is the big one, but in practice, if we hypothesis that no one's running a VPN as a charity, free VPN products need to make money someway, and if you're not paying to use it, how else are they gonna make money? So basically be suspicious of every single "free" or suspiciously cheap VPN. Go with known brands that come recommended by mulitple people, especially from people "in the know". Though PirateSoftware (a person) has a good bit on why he doesn't advertise for VPNs on his channel.
        1y ago
pkphilip 1y ago
This is nice! not a big fan of the design and would really prefer a fixed roof but the concept is still a good one and the avoidance of all the digital doodads is great!
jmward01 1y ago
I like the idea, and we need variety in the market to keep things evolving, but I like the bells and whistles. I just don't want it to phone home. Honestly, I want the title to be 'we don't have a network connection and we can still be a car'. Privacy is my #1 feature.
- stavros 1y ago
  I have a BYD Seal and this was as simple as removing the SIM (it's in the armrest compartment and just pops out).
  - srameshc 1y ago
    This is how it should be if the user prefers not to be connected.
  - abakker 1y ago
    I mean, even back in the OnStar days, you could "opt out" and cancel the service and it would track you anyway. With BYD or any other car maker, I'd be worried the SIM was a placebo.
    - hrimfaxi 1y ago
      What would the car maker gain from adding a decoy sim?
      - dylan604 1y ago
        analytics. same thing anyone that collects data gets. how they use it might be different. most use it to monetize the data. some might actually use it to improve things. because some do use for making money, those that do for actual improving will always be deemed suspect
        hrimfaxi 1y ago
        You are seriously positing that car manufacturers would install decoy sims in their vehicles to discourage people from finding the true sim, all so they might collect data without potential user disruption?
RubenvanE 1y ago
Some specs about the car: - 31.5kWh - 630kg - 300km (186mi) range This review explains the concept behind the car in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTzuUrdyIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTzuUrdyIc
- nine_k 1y ago
  300 km with an extra battery. 200 km and 590 kg with a smaller one. It's about weight of a Lotus Elan, a bit heavier than a Fiat 500.
- rancor 1y ago
  Pros: Proper EV motor scream. Cons: 56HP.
  - realo 1y ago
    Ah... that could explain the apparent absence of airbags.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      haha, however, just because you can't move very fast doesn't mean something else moving fast won't hit you.
  - mywittyname 1y ago
    Yeah, the unfortunate reality with EVs is power and weight are tightly correlated, since the power output is limited by the batteries, and more battery capacity generally means more power output.
- limitedfrom 1y ago
  186 mi for 31.5 kWh would indicate nearly 200 mpge which is quite impressive.
- pornel 1y ago
  Lack of DC fast charging makes the range even more limiting. It takes 2.7 hours to add another 150 miles. Modern EVs can add 150 miles of range in 10-15 minutes.
dreamcompiler 1y ago
Looks like it's Europe-only.
swiftcoder 1y ago
I want one. What will it cost?
- throwup238 1y ago
  From the FAQ at the bottom of the page: > Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax) Street legal in Europe but not the US, up to 300km range.
  - swiftcoder 1y ago
    Hah. That 21% tax (which will surely also be the case here) is a killer.
nine_k 1y ago
I like the general design very much. And additionally the fact that it is small, lightweight, and not imposing, while apparently being a fast car. Except for one thing: the brushed metal dashboard. I can imagine how terribly it's going to reflect the sun from behind when the roof is folded. I hope they can offer a tasteful matte dark version. As of the lack of bells and whistles, the dashboard seems to be prepared for being customized. I suppose it's not a cheap car, so a customization job is not going to ruin the buyer's finances. I can imagine that a custom radio with protected but visible vacuum tubes could appeal to some buyers.
- jonah 1y ago
  That dash stood out to me as well. Would definitely want wood or leather or a darker matte metal.
  - convolvatron 1y ago
    I'm assuming that its stainless. it were were aggressive about it, it would take a patina for anything from grey to black. stainless also develops a really wide variety of colors if you heat treat it in an oven with good temperature control. there a bronze-like color that's nice, and also a blue. I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl.
    - rbanffy 1y ago
      > I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl. There are car enthusiasts and Cubertruck owners. There is little overlap between these two sets.
      - mulmen 1y ago
        I don’t understand. Vinyl wrapping cars is a normal thing for car people. What’s the difference?
        1y ago
djoldman 1y ago
Some choice quotes: > Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax). > The Carice TC2 complies with the European regulations and can therefore be driven in all EU countries and countries that adopt those regulations, like Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Monaco and Norway.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Saw that. It's a plaything for the wealthy, not anything like the small spartan EV that we really need.
  - wongarsu 1y ago
    It very much looks like it's designed to be your second/third/tenth car. Not as impractical as a daily driver as most sports cars, but you won't use it for a trip to Ikea either
    - mixmastamyk 1y ago
      In terms of not-yet-shipping not-online vehicles, we already have the Slate. So this looks to be a good compliment, for a moderately-wealthy two car household.
      - BizarroLand 1y ago
        I'm disappointed with the Slate. Knowing it's backed by Bezos ruins it for me. I know that's just me, but still, it bothers me and I'll likely cancel my pre-order.
        _ea1k 1y ago
        Isn't he a fairly minor shareholder?
        mixmastamyk 1y ago
        Be happy he invested in something potentially good. I don’t think investment implies involvement, although that remains to be seen.
rtaylorgarlock 1y ago
1) Cool, i hope they get lots of orders. 2) We're not past the 'zero emissions' rhetoric? I get evals 'at the tailpipe,' yet i think we've come past that line of thinking (e.g. Fairphone's Cameroon country outline inside the phone, behind the battery cover) 3) Will be interesting to compare results to other cars, e.g. Slate, which approach a similar need/desire from a remarkably different angle.
- jljljl 1y ago
  What's the issue with the zero emissions rhetoric?
  - burkaman 1y ago
    I guess the complaint is that electricity production is not zero emissions in most of the world, so it could be considered misleading. I don't think it makes sense, ICE vehicle emission ratings have never included the drilling, refining, and transportation of fuel, and the alternative is for every vehicle to just advertise "unknown emissions" because it's impossible for the manufacturer to know anything beyond what the vehicle itself produces.
  - renewiltord 1y ago
    It's not legal to operate on public roads without a human behind the wheel and humans are known to emit CO2.
  - fweimer 1y ago
    There are still emissions during production and decommissioning. And cars are sources of noise and light, and emissions due to component wear (tires and brakes, probably others as well). A specific car may be not as bad as others for the environment, but there is always some impact.
    - jljljl 1y ago
      The term "zero-emission" has a specific meaning for the DOA, EPA, and CARB specifically referring to the tailpipe and combustion emissions produced when operating the vehicle. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric-basics-ev https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric-basics-ev https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/4249 https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/4249
nluken 1y ago
Looks a little like a first gen Daihatsu Copen, and I mean that as a complement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Copen#First_generation_(L880;_2002) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Copen#First_generatio...
- mywittyname 1y ago
  I'd call it a Porsche 356 Speedster homage. But the Copen mostly likely drew its inspiration from the 356 as well. The 54HP is right about what a 356 would have made with the larger engines, and the price with VAT is inflation-adjusted, roughly identical as well.
  - xtiansimon 1y ago
    I had to dig to find this comment…Porsche called, and they want their legacy car back.
nkko 1y ago
Too cute for the price tag. But seriously bad design choice of having a plug port in the trunk. Looks like you could close it and lock it, but still.
- solatic 1y ago
  I also got a bad impression from that, but upon further reflection, it's a more interesting choice. Keeping the plug port in the trunk means that the charging cable (kept in the trunk) can stay semi-permanently plugged into the car, which is perhaps nice when you're charging away from home. The question I have is, because the cable goes through a cut-out in the trunk to reach the charger, how well that holds up to rain, attempts to break into the trunk, etc.
andy99 1y ago
Hello Carice
thatwasunusual 1y ago
> Hello, Clarice... Only thing that goes on my head, but I like the car. :)
fortran77 1y ago
I like the fact that it looks like a "classic" car. I was very disappointed when the electric Mustang looked like any other electric car and not like a classic Mustang.
jacquesm 1y ago
Nice, a cross between the 356 and the Copen. Price is ~55000 Euros including taxes. They're Dutch, I wonder who is backing them, this looks like an expensive thing to develop.
6DM 1y ago
I like the design, but I can't see myself owning it beyond having it as a hobby vehicle to around town. I've grown far too used to a GPS screen, rear camera and an entertainment system (free of ads thanks to my streaming subscription).
- rbanffy 1y ago
  I have to agree. A car with a digital dashboard an infotainment system doesn’t need to feel “complicated”. I get they want as little automation as possible, and I’m fine with giving up on lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, forward safety systems, and eve a rear camera (I often just use the mirrors anyway), but not my music and maps.
- simonbw 1y ago
  I actually thought the backup cam was required by law now. I wonder how they get around that. EDIT: Ah, it's not sold for the US market, so that's how.
  - janfoeh 1y ago
    They would still need other sensors if omitting the camera, alongside a slew of other safety systems: https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/document/download/cd243af9-c877-401e-9f69-d7d4ab6a90c6_en?filename=Fact+Sheet+General+Safety+regulations_July+2024.pdf https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/document/download... . Curious.
okokwhatever 1y ago
The perfect car for someone who doesn't need a car.
- pcdoodle 1y ago
  The perfect car to experience car perfection IMO but yes, it's probably going to be a second car 90% of the time.
jfkw 1y ago
I would gladly pay extra (in terms of OEM's profit margin) for a de-contented EV that aims to stay reliable, offline, and be easier to field-repair and upgrade as components improve. Our phones are better than any infotainment system. Batteries and motors will get better in time. https://www.slate.auto https://www.slate.auto 's pickup seems to be heading in this direction, and now Carice enters in a higher-end market segment. If someone does a minivan or other people-hauler configuration similarly, I'd be first in line.
w10-1 1y ago
Light, open, and hence not crashworthy. I'd hesitate to recommend such a sexy way to end one's enduring boredom...
6SixTy 1y ago
Not a fan of how this car would work ergonomically. Center mounted speedo is annoying and there's zero attempt to prevent glare from them. I also can't tell what's going on with all of the switches on the passenger's side and the handbreak.
spiritplumber 1y ago
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Corvega_analog_coupe https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Corvega_analog_coupe Full Analog System No Electronics!!!! No Computers!!!! 800+ Horsepower 0 to 60 in .5 sec
taco_emoji 1y ago
Can I get a non-digital gas car, too?
vondur 1y ago
I was hoping for a lower price, but it does appear that these are not mass produced like most car manufacturers and they do have some nice designs on them, which I'm sure adds to the cost.
Alex_L_Wood 1y ago
This reminds me of eGolf, and, I think, this is the right way to go for electric cars. They shouldn’t be apps on wheels, they should be cars, but with an electric motor.
bitwize 1y ago
Yes, but will it withstand an EMP? Granted, it's better than the status quo, which probably couldn't withstand a Flipper Zero...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
ninalanyon 1y ago
No CCS, only Type 2? That's odd.
- sl-1 1y ago
  Must be quite low power engine + small battery system for that to work and translate to the promised charging time
- darkwater 1y ago
  200km and 300km (I guess) WLTP mean a very small battery pack, so AC only charging seems pretty normal. It's probably some ~8-10 years old technology put in a small chassis.
  - ninalanyon 1y ago
    My 2015 Tesla S has ten year old technology and does DC fast charging. It's a solved problem. You can buy a Dongfeng Nammi Box compact car with 42 kWh battery 310 km WLTP range for 169 kNOK in Norway, that's 14.3 kEUR but it's probably more expensive in the rest of Europe. Still it's much cheaper and can DC charge at 70 kW. If you live in a flat as many do in the Netherlands DC fast charging might well be the only practical way to charge a vehicle. So I think this is just a toy for the well off who have off street parking.
    - darkwater 1y ago
      > So I think this is just a toy for the well off who have off street parking. I mean, that's pretty obvious, a 2-seater with cabriolet Beetle vibes it's clearly aimed at people with enough money in their 50s and 60s. It's a toy for grown-ups, it doesn't solve any practical need.
throwaway81523 1y ago
I don't see anything on the web site about the car not being digital. It's just an advertisement. The title is misleading and should be changed to the target page's title. I also don't see mention of the battery technology, though maybe I didn't look hard enough. I'd want it to be LFP.
MrBuddyCasino 1y ago
The round shapes and the glossiness make this looks like a plastic toy car to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see a toddler in it.
ForHackernews 1y ago
Similar vibes to the MX-5 EV conversion https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63098752/mazda-miata-ev-conversion-kit-details/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63098752/mazda-miata-ev-c...
villgax 1y ago
Need bikes like this too, not with a huge touch screen than cannot be tucked away or removed, replaceable batteries and air less tires
lunias 1y ago
590kg is amazing. Not a big fan of the body design, although it's not terrible. I want a hard top option with all wheel drive. I would love to daily a lightweight electric coupe, but it must be able to deal with the snow.

298 points by RubenvanE 1y ago

Analog in what sense? No digital readouts? It has a standard EV charge port, so it's definitely got computers in it somewhere to negotiate charging at a minimum.

imglorp 1y ago
The post's title was editorialized: the archived page makes no mention of analog. The neutral title would be "The 100% electric Carice TC2: a real retro head-turner". I think OP meant there were no screens in the sparse cockpit, just some analog gauges. And yeah electric cars need a battery management computer, a charge controller, and a motor controller at least.
- candiddevmike 1y ago
  Out of curiosity, are those components standardized/swappable between manufacturers/models, or customized for each individual make/model? So much of "old school" auto maintenance was having a relatively standardized size/fit for similar components.
  - waweic 1y ago
    Really interesting question! I have an unusual EV made by a relatively small company of which only a handful got to private customers, so if I want to fix something, I have to reverse-engineer it first. Most of the time, I will find out that the components used in my vehicle were also used in other cars. Regarding the difference between EVs and ICEVs, only the powertrain components are relevant and between those, some are more exchangeable and some are less so. As with ICEVs, most manufacturers have "platforms" that are shared between multiple makes/models. Having shared components with other vehicles of the same platform is the rule rather than the exception. In the cars I have seen, the whole battery often only fits that specific model, sometimes also for other cars within the same platform. The modules that make up the battery are often exchangeable with other cars made by the same company/group. The cells that make up the modules are almost always generic, but very hard to replace. The battery management system is usually specific to the battery. I don't know about the current state, but for early EVs the motor and inverter (which converts battery DC to AC for the motor) were often made by external suppliers. Especially EV variants of otherwise ICE-based vehicles like the Fiat e500, VW Golf/Jetta, and some french cars all use the same motor and inverter made by Bosch. If an inverter is connected to a different type of motor, it needs to be tuned for it which is not trivial. Onboard Chargers (OBCs), that convert AC line voltage from AC chargers to battery voltage are often quite generic and developed and manufactured by suppliers. They are almost always interchangeable within the same platform, but I haven't yet seen completely unrelated OEMs use the same OBC. The same applies to fast charging communications equipment, which is often integrated into the OBC. DC/DC converters (the alternator equivalent) are rarely separate components anymore and often integrated into either the OBC or the inverter. Voltage-wise, all these components are often surprisingly flexible and can be used with much lower voltages than their maximum rated voltage. Other components like contactors and connectors are very generic and I haven't yet seen one that only one OEM would use. There are likely exceptions to this. Often, the base components like the OBC or the inverter are almost identical, only using other (also generic) connectors. While technically all these components could be replaced in the "old school" style, almost all of them require either coding the components to the specific vehicle, or flashing an OEM-specific firmware. While the former is only doable with OEM-specific software (that is far too expensive for both indiviuals and most independent workshops), I haven't yet seen any example of the latter, at least not for swapping components between unrelated platforms. As of now, there are almost no "official" aftermarket replacements for these major components. I don't know of any major supplier that will directly sell parts in small quantities and OEMs likely won't sell you as an individual replacement parts either. For DIY repairs, finding used parts from wrecked cars and coding them with cracked software or having it done in an authorized workshop (if even possible) often seems to be the only option so far. Also, everyone will discourage you from working on your EV for "electrical safety" reasons (actually, it's more profitable if they do the work). Working on an EV is quite safe, if done right (which is not hard). Most of these limitations do not only apply to EVs, but to almost all modern cars. Often, the necessary work of reverse-engineering and cracking software has already been done for ICEVs for tuning purposes.
- beardyw 1y ago
  Hell, I was souring through to see how they made it fully analogue. A stupid title.
  - rbanffy 1y ago
    Most likely step motors in the instruments. I am sure there is no analog voltage or pneumatic input to the dashboard.
    - formerly_proven 1y ago
      Neither was there in cars with dials 30 years ago.
      - imglorp 1y ago
        The speedometer and odometer at least could be fully mechanical: they used to be gear reduced from a cable to the wheels or transmission.
        formerly_proven 1y ago
        That's the point, they could've hypothetically been analog but even in a 30 year old car they most likely weren't.
ptsd_isv 1y ago
You can negotiate charging with essentially a single resistor. Deciding when to stop / balancing cells etc is the harder problem.
- Onavo 1y ago
  Well, OP Amps are technically "analog" too.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    Well, they could be using vacuum tubes…
  - kragen 1y ago
    Op-amps are absolutely, 100% analog in every sense; there's no need to limit this assertion with the nonstandard adverb "technically". The term "analog" was invented in the first place specifically to describe circuits made out of op-amps rather than "digital" circuits. And, yes, you can totally balance the charge on your cells using op-amps and similar analog circuits. You will probably want some sharp PWM waveforms in the circuit, but PWM isn't all the way to digital.
    - jesperwe 1y ago
      I would question whether a PWM "technically" counts as digital... It is on and off, sure, but so is a mechanical power switch, which few would describe as digital. "Digital" is more when we get higher level values represented by multiple signals that are on or off (aka bits).
      - kragen 1y ago
        A mechanical power switch can certainly be digital; the Harvard Mark I digital computer was made entirely out of mechanical power switches, actuated by solenoids (so-called "relays"). It depends on how you use it—as you say, by combining multiple different bits, either simultaneously or serially. I agree that a PWM signal is not really a digital signal, but it's kind of on the edge—for example, https://tinyurl.com/25y54mph https://tinyurl.com/25y54mph is a simulation I designed of a completely analog PWM generator (a simulated LM324 op-amp, five transistors, 13 resistors, and a couple of caps), and several vendors offer better-designed versions of the same thing on an IC, but you can also get a perfectly adequate PWM signal out of a digital GPIO pin, and the PWM peripherals commonly included in microcontrollers are entirely digital.
dlcarrier 1y ago
It's a term usually used to describe the gauges/displays on the dash.

lysace 1y ago

Mirror: https://archive.is/ACbrd https://archive.is/ACbrd

flobosg 1y ago
(2023), at least based on that mirror.

gdotdesign 1y ago

Lovin' this! Though I'm not a fan of the design but like the spirit of it. I can't fathom why we can't have a modern car with analog displays and switches in the cockpit. I own a 25 years old car which only has a digital radio (removeable!) and that's it, perfectly enough.

SirFatty 1y ago
No fuel injection or electronic ignition? I'm sure there's an ECU somewhere in the vehicle.
- regularfry 1y ago
  Not features found in the cockpit, unless you are not going to space today.
- cameron_b 1y ago
  This is the sentiment completely. My 34-year old base spec Chevrolet has digital controls for timing advance, fuel trim, and integrated Engine and Transmission Control Units. But my dash has some analog components ( fuel level is variable voltage instead of PWM ). The mechanics would all say that my truck is very simple, and "old school" The Lay use of 'analog' is far removed from function. As long as there isn't a screen, it isn't seen to be digital. I studied photography in college and loved shooting film. I have a processing machine that is based on a 6502. When people would talk about non-digital things as analog it would bug me (One is chemical, and one is a computer).
  - calvinmorrison 1y ago
    The last real analog stuff would be either carb'd bikes / cars or mechanical fuel injection, which is the worst of both worlds. However, those ECUs are more closely related to embedded programming than digital dial outs and SIM Card loaded cars with a internal network canbus these days. Analog / Digital Inputs and outputs as a closed loop controller.
    - 1y ago

bityard 1y ago

Oh, yet another luxury EV. Wake me up when a manufacturer finally commits to making an EV that everyone can afford and isn't a cloud-connected privacy nightmare.

ErroneousBosh 1y ago
It's a few grand more than a Focus ST. Hardly "luxury" money.
- zokier 1y ago
  For a toy? definitely "luxury money"
  - ErroneousBosh 1y ago
    I wouldn't say a "toy". Depending on your needs you could easily daily a 2-seater convertible with a couple of hundred miles range.
    - ibejoeb 1y ago
      Yeah toy might be a little negative. I think it's a leisure vehicle, and, at least as I read the marketing, they're leaning into that. Seems like the extended range model is 300km. If you need a car, you probably don't want it to be this one.
Upvoter33 1y ago
Don’t know the cost here but I would fathom it’s not “cloud connected”
- brianshaler 1y ago
  > What is the price of a Carice TC2? > Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax).

herpdyderp 1y ago

Would be great to read about it but my residential internet has apparently been blocked for "malicious activity".

chrsw 1y ago
This is dangerously disruptive content.
protoster 1y ago
Residential internets are now proxies for AI scrapers. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45741357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45741357
- fragmede 1y ago
  specifically, “free” VPN isn’t free. They use your computer that has the VPN software installed as an exit nodes for other customers. Those other customers hammer websites for their AI until it gets blocked. Sucks for you, unfortunately. Talk to your kids about the dangers of VPNs before it's too late.
  - cuu508 1y ago
    Which VPNs are like that?
    - fragmede 1y ago
      Hola is the big one, but in practice, if we hypothesis that no one's running a VPN as a charity, free VPN products need to make money someway, and if you're not paying to use it, how else are they gonna make money? So basically be suspicious of every single "free" or suspiciously cheap VPN. Go with known brands that come recommended by mulitple people, especially from people "in the know". Though PirateSoftware (a person) has a good bit on why he doesn't advertise for VPNs on his channel.
      - 1y ago

pkphilip 1y ago

This is nice! not a big fan of the design and would really prefer a fixed roof but the concept is still a good one and the avoidance of all the digital doodads is great!

jmward01 1y ago

I like the idea, and we need variety in the market to keep things evolving, but I like the bells and whistles. I just don't want it to phone home. Honestly, I want the title to be 'we don't have a network connection and we can still be a car'. Privacy is my #1 feature.

stavros 1y ago
I have a BYD Seal and this was as simple as removing the SIM (it's in the armrest compartment and just pops out).
- srameshc 1y ago
  This is how it should be if the user prefers not to be connected.
- abakker 1y ago
  I mean, even back in the OnStar days, you could "opt out" and cancel the service and it would track you anyway. With BYD or any other car maker, I'd be worried the SIM was a placebo.
  - hrimfaxi 1y ago
    What would the car maker gain from adding a decoy sim?
    - dylan604 1y ago
      analytics. same thing anyone that collects data gets. how they use it might be different. most use it to monetize the data. some might actually use it to improve things. because some do use for making money, those that do for actual improving will always be deemed suspect
      - hrimfaxi 1y ago
        You are seriously positing that car manufacturers would install decoy sims in their vehicles to discourage people from finding the true sim, all so they might collect data without potential user disruption?

RubenvanE 1y ago

Some specs about the car: - 31.5kWh - 630kg - 300km (186mi) range This review explains the concept behind the car in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTzuUrdyIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTzuUrdyIc

nine_k 1y ago
300 km with an extra battery. 200 km and 590 kg with a smaller one. It's about weight of a Lotus Elan, a bit heavier than a Fiat 500.
rancor 1y ago
Pros: Proper EV motor scream. Cons: 56HP.
- realo 1y ago
  Ah... that could explain the apparent absence of airbags.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    haha, however, just because you can't move very fast doesn't mean something else moving fast won't hit you.
- mywittyname 1y ago
  Yeah, the unfortunate reality with EVs is power and weight are tightly correlated, since the power output is limited by the batteries, and more battery capacity generally means more power output.
limitedfrom 1y ago
186 mi for 31.5 kWh would indicate nearly 200 mpge which is quite impressive.
pornel 1y ago
Lack of DC fast charging makes the range even more limiting. It takes 2.7 hours to add another 150 miles. Modern EVs can add 150 miles of range in 10-15 minutes.

dreamcompiler 1y ago

Looks like it's Europe-only.

swiftcoder 1y ago

I want one. What will it cost?

throwup238 1y ago
From the FAQ at the bottom of the page: > Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax) Street legal in Europe but not the US, up to 300km range.
- swiftcoder 1y ago
  Hah. That 21% tax (which will surely also be the case here) is a killer.

nine_k 1y ago

I like the general design very much. And additionally the fact that it is small, lightweight, and not imposing, while apparently being a fast car. Except for one thing: the brushed metal dashboard. I can imagine how terribly it's going to reflect the sun from behind when the roof is folded. I hope they can offer a tasteful matte dark version. As of the lack of bells and whistles, the dashboard seems to be prepared for being customized. I suppose it's not a cheap car, so a customization job is not going to ruin the buyer's finances. I can imagine that a custom radio with protected but visible vacuum tubes could appeal to some buyers.

jonah 1y ago
That dash stood out to me as well. Would definitely want wood or leather or a darker matte metal.
- convolvatron 1y ago
  I'm assuming that its stainless. it were were aggressive about it, it would take a patina for anything from grey to black. stainless also develops a really wide variety of colors if you heat treat it in an oven with good temperature control. there a bronze-like color that's nice, and also a blue. I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl.
  - rbanffy 1y ago
    > I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl. There are car enthusiasts and Cubertruck owners. There is little overlap between these two sets.
    - mulmen 1y ago
      I don’t understand. Vinyl wrapping cars is a normal thing for car people. What’s the difference?
      - 1y ago

djoldman 1y ago

Some choice quotes: > Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax). > The Carice TC2 complies with the European regulations and can therefore be driven in all EU countries and countries that adopt those regulations, like Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Monaco and Norway.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Saw that. It's a plaything for the wealthy, not anything like the small spartan EV that we really need.
- wongarsu 1y ago
  It very much looks like it's designed to be your second/third/tenth car. Not as impractical as a daily driver as most sports cars, but you won't use it for a trip to Ikea either
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    In terms of not-yet-shipping not-online vehicles, we already have the Slate. So this looks to be a good compliment, for a moderately-wealthy two car household.
    - BizarroLand 1y ago
      I'm disappointed with the Slate. Knowing it's backed by Bezos ruins it for me. I know that's just me, but still, it bothers me and I'll likely cancel my pre-order.
      - _ea1k 1y ago
        Isn't he a fairly minor shareholder?
      - mixmastamyk 1y ago
        Be happy he invested in something potentially good. I don’t think investment implies involvement, although that remains to be seen.

rtaylorgarlock 1y ago

1) Cool, i hope they get lots of orders. 2) We're not past the 'zero emissions' rhetoric? I get evals 'at the tailpipe,' yet i think we've come past that line of thinking (e.g. Fairphone's Cameroon country outline inside the phone, behind the battery cover) 3) Will be interesting to compare results to other cars, e.g. Slate, which approach a similar need/desire from a remarkably different angle.

jljljl 1y ago
What's the issue with the zero emissions rhetoric?
- burkaman 1y ago
  I guess the complaint is that electricity production is not zero emissions in most of the world, so it could be considered misleading. I don't think it makes sense, ICE vehicle emission ratings have never included the drilling, refining, and transportation of fuel, and the alternative is for every vehicle to just advertise "unknown emissions" because it's impossible for the manufacturer to know anything beyond what the vehicle itself produces.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  It's not legal to operate on public roads without a human behind the wheel and humans are known to emit CO2.
- fweimer 1y ago
  There are still emissions during production and decommissioning. And cars are sources of noise and light, and emissions due to component wear (tires and brakes, probably others as well). A specific car may be not as bad as others for the environment, but there is always some impact.
  - jljljl 1y ago
    The term "zero-emission" has a specific meaning for the DOA, EPA, and CARB specifically referring to the tailpipe and combustion emissions produced when operating the vehicle. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric-basics-ev https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric-basics-ev https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/4249 https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/4249

nluken 1y ago

Looks a little like a first gen Daihatsu Copen, and I mean that as a complement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Copen#First_generation_(L880;_2002) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Copen#First_generatio...

mywittyname 1y ago
I'd call it a Porsche 356 Speedster homage. But the Copen mostly likely drew its inspiration from the 356 as well. The 54HP is right about what a 356 would have made with the larger engines, and the price with VAT is inflation-adjusted, roughly identical as well.
- xtiansimon 1y ago
  I had to dig to find this comment…Porsche called, and they want their legacy car back.

nkko 1y ago

Too cute for the price tag. But seriously bad design choice of having a plug port in the trunk. Looks like you could close it and lock it, but still.

solatic 1y ago
I also got a bad impression from that, but upon further reflection, it's a more interesting choice. Keeping the plug port in the trunk means that the charging cable (kept in the trunk) can stay semi-permanently plugged into the car, which is perhaps nice when you're charging away from home. The question I have is, because the cable goes through a cut-out in the trunk to reach the charger, how well that holds up to rain, attempts to break into the trunk, etc.

andy99 1y ago

Hello Carice

thatwasunusual 1y ago

> Hello, Clarice... Only thing that goes on my head, but I like the car. :)

fortran77 1y ago

I like the fact that it looks like a "classic" car. I was very disappointed when the electric Mustang looked like any other electric car and not like a classic Mustang.

jacquesm 1y ago

Nice, a cross between the 356 and the Copen. Price is ~55000 Euros including taxes. They're Dutch, I wonder who is backing them, this looks like an expensive thing to develop.

6DM 1y ago

I like the design, but I can't see myself owning it beyond having it as a hobby vehicle to around town. I've grown far too used to a GPS screen, rear camera and an entertainment system (free of ads thanks to my streaming subscription).

rbanffy 1y ago
I have to agree. A car with a digital dashboard an infotainment system doesn’t need to feel “complicated”. I get they want as little automation as possible, and I’m fine with giving up on lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, forward safety systems, and eve a rear camera (I often just use the mirrors anyway), but not my music and maps.
simonbw 1y ago
I actually thought the backup cam was required by law now. I wonder how they get around that. EDIT: Ah, it's not sold for the US market, so that's how.
- janfoeh 1y ago
  They would still need other sensors if omitting the camera, alongside a slew of other safety systems: https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/document/download/cd243af9-c877-401e-9f69-d7d4ab6a90c6_en?filename=Fact+Sheet+General+Safety+regulations_July+2024.pdf https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/document/download... . Curious.

okokwhatever 1y ago

The perfect car for someone who doesn't need a car.

pcdoodle 1y ago
The perfect car to experience car perfection IMO but yes, it's probably going to be a second car 90% of the time.

jfkw 1y ago

I would gladly pay extra (in terms of OEM's profit margin) for a de-contented EV that aims to stay reliable, offline, and be easier to field-repair and upgrade as components improve. Our phones are better than any infotainment system. Batteries and motors will get better in time. https://www.slate.auto https://www.slate.auto 's pickup seems to be heading in this direction, and now Carice enters in a higher-end market segment. If someone does a minivan or other people-hauler configuration similarly, I'd be first in line.

w10-1 1y ago

Light, open, and hence not crashworthy. I'd hesitate to recommend such a sexy way to end one's enduring boredom...

6SixTy 1y ago

Not a fan of how this car would work ergonomically. Center mounted speedo is annoying and there's zero attempt to prevent glare from them. I also can't tell what's going on with all of the switches on the passenger's side and the handbreak.

spiritplumber 1y ago

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Corvega_analog_coupe https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Corvega_analog_coupe Full Analog System No Electronics!!!! No Computers!!!! 800+ Horsepower 0 to 60 in .5 sec

taco_emoji 1y ago

Can I get a non-digital gas car, too?

vondur 1y ago

I was hoping for a lower price, but it does appear that these are not mass produced like most car manufacturers and they do have some nice designs on them, which I'm sure adds to the cost.

Alex_L_Wood 1y ago

This reminds me of eGolf, and, I think, this is the right way to go for electric cars. They shouldn’t be apps on wheels, they should be cars, but with an electric motor.

bitwize 1y ago

Yes, but will it withstand an EMP? Granted, it's better than the status quo, which probably couldn't withstand a Flipper Zero...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

ninalanyon 1y ago

No CCS, only Type 2? That's odd.

sl-1 1y ago
Must be quite low power engine + small battery system for that to work and translate to the promised charging time
darkwater 1y ago
200km and 300km (I guess) WLTP mean a very small battery pack, so AC only charging seems pretty normal. It's probably some ~8-10 years old technology put in a small chassis.
- ninalanyon 1y ago
  My 2015 Tesla S has ten year old technology and does DC fast charging. It's a solved problem. You can buy a Dongfeng Nammi Box compact car with 42 kWh battery 310 km WLTP range for 169 kNOK in Norway, that's 14.3 kEUR but it's probably more expensive in the rest of Europe. Still it's much cheaper and can DC charge at 70 kW. If you live in a flat as many do in the Netherlands DC fast charging might well be the only practical way to charge a vehicle. So I think this is just a toy for the well off who have off street parking.
  - darkwater 1y ago
    > So I think this is just a toy for the well off who have off street parking. I mean, that's pretty obvious, a 2-seater with cabriolet Beetle vibes it's clearly aimed at people with enough money in their 50s and 60s. It's a toy for grown-ups, it doesn't solve any practical need.

throwaway81523 1y ago

I don't see anything on the web site about the car not being digital. It's just an advertisement. The title is misleading and should be changed to the target page's title. I also don't see mention of the battery technology, though maybe I didn't look hard enough. I'd want it to be LFP.

MrBuddyCasino 1y ago

The round shapes and the glossiness make this looks like a plastic toy car to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see a toddler in it.

ForHackernews 1y ago

Similar vibes to the MX-5 EV conversion https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63098752/mazda-miata-ev-conversion-kit-details/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63098752/mazda-miata-ev-c...

villgax 1y ago

Need bikes like this too, not with a huge touch screen than cannot be tucked away or removed, replaceable batteries and air less tires

lunias 1y ago

590kg is amazing. Not a big fan of the body design, although it's not terrible. I want a hard top option with all wheel drive. I would love to daily a lightweight electric coupe, but it must be able to deal with the snow.