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The Electrek article (https://electrek.co/2025/10/29/tesla-robotaxis-keep-crashing-despite-safety-monitors/ https://electrek.co/2025/10/29/tesla-robotaxis-keep-

The Electrek article (https://electrek.co/2025/10/29/tesla-robotaxis-keep-crashing-despite-safety-monitors/ https://electrek.co/2025/10/29/tesla-robotaxis-keep-crashing...) contains more information. It's 4 crashes in around 250,000 miles. But Tesla redacts most information in these reports unlike e.g. Waymo, so the information is limited. If Tesla wants people to trust them regarding safety, this is not the way to go. Personally, I'd be interested in how often the safety drivers had to intervene. But I assume we'll never get that information.

atonse 1y ago
Yeah this article was better – can we just change the link to that one? It also mentioned that Tesla hasn't registered for a permit in CA, which would require disclosing a lot more (like what you're asking for). Which is telling.
kakacik 1y ago
If true thats seriously bad stat. You buy a car, if you drive even modestly, in 15-20 years you will end up in 3-5 accidents on average. Much worse than me with mildly less kms (0 bad accidents, 1 light, few times avoiding them via quick reactions in complex situations that most probably no current self-drive could handle well if at all, ie hearing car crashes behind the bend and breaking in advance, or few cars behind us and moving a bit further to avoid being also hit in bowling style).
- vel0city 1y ago
  And this is with a driver behind the wheel.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- esalman 1y ago
  10 years, 200k+ miles, I only been in one "accident" where I ran into a street sign. And I took my eye of the road, unlike Tesla, which have robotic camera watching the road at all time.
  - reaperducer 1y ago
    10 years, 200k+ miles, I only been in one "accident" 40+ years. Zero accidents. But then, I'm the asshole who always does the speed limit and holds everyone else up.
    - esalman 1y ago
      As long as you're not doing it on the passing lane I'm cool with it.
amelius 1y ago
> If Tesla wants people to trust them regarding safety, this is not the way to go. Companies have discovered that trust does not matter. People forget in one or two weeks or so. You can do very bad things and most people will still trust you in the long run. Especially if your offer is a few dollars cheaper than the competition. The extra sad part is that this will make roads unsafer for informed people too.
- chneu 1y ago
  Americans have 1 day memories. Once the next news cycle starts most people move on. That + Americans insane brand loyalty.
  - jsbisviewtiful 1y ago
    In general, yeah. Personally, I don't even like getting in a Lyft/Uber that's a Tesla knowing the door can fail in the event of an accident.
    - bathtub365 1y ago
      It would be nice if you could specify no Teslas. The ride quality also sucks
- ozozozd 1y ago
  Trust absolutely matters. They just discovered that they can coast on the trust established by others. And over time, if institutions don’t rectify this, the public trust will be destroyed, and people will distrust by default. Look up “How nations fail” by Daron Acemoglu.
the_arun 1y ago
4 Crashes in a drive of 250k miles. How good/bad is this with human driving? I couldn't compare this with human driving. Though I found a report on fatal crashes here - https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state#crash-types https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/deta...
- fabian2k 1y ago
  I don't think any meaningful comparison is possible here. The type of driving matters, you have to compare similar driving profiles. And in this case there are actually humans on board. So the real comparison would have to be how many accidents (with Tesla at fault) and how many safety driver interventions that otherwise would have likely resulted in an accident. And we don't have that information.
  - panarky 1y ago
    > how many accidents (with Tesla at fault) It's not just about fault. Waymo has a well deserved reputation for vastly reducing the frequency and severity of accidents where it is at fault. But if you look at the data for all crashes, regardless of fault, it's clear that Waymo also reduces the frequency and severity of crashes where other drivers are at fault. Waymo's "we got hit by someone else" crashes are substantially lower per mil, probably on the order of 50% to 70% reduction, not just the crashes it causes.
    - xethos 1y ago
      Yes, because as it turns out, defensive driving works, the average American motorist is just bad at it. Fully agreeing with your point, just piling on because I'm exhausted (as both pedestrian and motorist) with how bad most motorists are
      - rented_mule 1y ago
        Self-driving cars also require us human drivers to learn new defensive-driving skills. A month or two back, I was driving down a steep one-way, three-lane street in SF, late on a rainy night. I saw a Waymo stopped at the left curb and I moved to the from the left lane to the center lane in case it started to pull out into the left lane. There were no cars in front of it or behind it, so I was shocked to see it quickly leave the curb at about a 45 degree angle, as if it were pulling out of a tight spot with a car parked just in front of it, but much faster. If I saw a human driver doing that, it would almost certainly mean they are trying to get all the way across the street immediately. If it was doing that, there is no way I could stop in time on the wet downhill. I tried, but that just made steering difficult as my anti-lock brakes struggled to find any traction at all. Then, just as quickly, it straightened out in the left lane. I'm glad I was the only other car around. One element of defensive driving is thinking about how to avoid surprising other drivers. When will self-driving cars' defensive driving rise to that level? Waymo certainly wasn't there in that situation on that night.
4d4m 1y ago
Lol wut https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/waymo-sues-dmv-to-keep-robotaxi-safety-data-secret https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/waymo-sues-dmv-t...
- esalman 1y ago
  > The suit stems from a public records request to the DMV from an unidentified individual or entity seeking access to Waymo’s driverless-deployment application Context, bro.
  - 4d4m 1y ago
    From the same article further down: "...tight curves and steep hills. Waymo also wants to keep secret any descriptions of crashes involving its driverless cars." In this context where transparency with the public should be an absolute principle Im calling out that companies playing with people's lives claiming to be transparent should back that up through their actions. Here the actions do not align with the interests of the public or the companies stated dedication to transparency. Won't be the first or last but lets not defend the best in class solution when human lives are in the mix.

atonse 1y ago

Yeah this article was better – can we just change the link to that one? It also mentioned that Tesla hasn't registered for a permit in CA, which would require disclosing a lot more (like what you're asking for). Which is telling.

kakacik 1y ago

If true thats seriously bad stat. You buy a car, if you drive even modestly, in 15-20 years you will end up in 3-5 accidents on average. Much worse than me with mildly less kms (0 bad accidents, 1 light, few times avoiding them via quick reactions in complex situations that most probably no current self-drive could handle well if at all, ie hearing car crashes behind the bend and breaking in advance, or few cars behind us and moving a bit further to avoid being also hit in bowling style).

vel0city 1y ago
And this is with a driver behind the wheel.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
esalman 1y ago
10 years, 200k+ miles, I only been in one "accident" where I ran into a street sign. And I took my eye of the road, unlike Tesla, which have robotic camera watching the road at all time.
- reaperducer 1y ago
  10 years, 200k+ miles, I only been in one "accident" 40+ years. Zero accidents. But then, I'm the asshole who always does the speed limit and holds everyone else up.
  - esalman 1y ago
    As long as you're not doing it on the passing lane I'm cool with it.

amelius 1y ago

> If Tesla wants people to trust them regarding safety, this is not the way to go. Companies have discovered that trust does not matter. People forget in one or two weeks or so. You can do very bad things and most people will still trust you in the long run. Especially if your offer is a few dollars cheaper than the competition. The extra sad part is that this will make roads unsafer for informed people too.

chneu 1y ago
Americans have 1 day memories. Once the next news cycle starts most people move on. That + Americans insane brand loyalty.
- jsbisviewtiful 1y ago
  In general, yeah. Personally, I don't even like getting in a Lyft/Uber that's a Tesla knowing the door can fail in the event of an accident.
  - bathtub365 1y ago
    It would be nice if you could specify no Teslas. The ride quality also sucks
ozozozd 1y ago
Trust absolutely matters. They just discovered that they can coast on the trust established by others. And over time, if institutions don’t rectify this, the public trust will be destroyed, and people will distrust by default. Look up “How nations fail” by Daron Acemoglu.

the_arun 1y ago

4 Crashes in a drive of 250k miles. How good/bad is this with human driving? I couldn't compare this with human driving. Though I found a report on fatal crashes here - https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state#crash-types https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/deta...

fabian2k 1y ago
I don't think any meaningful comparison is possible here. The type of driving matters, you have to compare similar driving profiles. And in this case there are actually humans on board. So the real comparison would have to be how many accidents (with Tesla at fault) and how many safety driver interventions that otherwise would have likely resulted in an accident. And we don't have that information.
- panarky 1y ago
  > how many accidents (with Tesla at fault) It's not just about fault. Waymo has a well deserved reputation for vastly reducing the frequency and severity of accidents where it is at fault. But if you look at the data for all crashes, regardless of fault, it's clear that Waymo also reduces the frequency and severity of crashes where other drivers are at fault. Waymo's "we got hit by someone else" crashes are substantially lower per mil, probably on the order of 50% to 70% reduction, not just the crashes it causes.
  - xethos 1y ago
    Yes, because as it turns out, defensive driving works, the average American motorist is just bad at it. Fully agreeing with your point, just piling on because I'm exhausted (as both pedestrian and motorist) with how bad most motorists are
    - rented_mule 1y ago
      Self-driving cars also require us human drivers to learn new defensive-driving skills. A month or two back, I was driving down a steep one-way, three-lane street in SF, late on a rainy night. I saw a Waymo stopped at the left curb and I moved to the from the left lane to the center lane in case it started to pull out into the left lane. There were no cars in front of it or behind it, so I was shocked to see it quickly leave the curb at about a 45 degree angle, as if it were pulling out of a tight spot with a car parked just in front of it, but much faster. If I saw a human driver doing that, it would almost certainly mean they are trying to get all the way across the street immediately. If it was doing that, there is no way I could stop in time on the wet downhill. I tried, but that just made steering difficult as my anti-lock brakes struggled to find any traction at all. Then, just as quickly, it straightened out in the left lane. I'm glad I was the only other car around. One element of defensive driving is thinking about how to avoid surprising other drivers. When will self-driving cars' defensive driving rise to that level? Waymo certainly wasn't there in that situation on that night.

4d4m 1y ago

Lol wut https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/waymo-sues-dmv-to-keep-robotaxi-safety-data-secret https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/waymo-sues-dmv-t...

esalman 1y ago
> The suit stems from a public records request to the DMV from an unidentified individual or entity seeking access to Waymo’s driverless-deployment application Context, bro.
- 4d4m 1y ago
  From the same article further down: "...tight curves and steep hills. Waymo also wants to keep secret any descriptions of crashes involving its driverless cars." In this context where transparency with the public should be an absolute principle Im calling out that companies playing with people's lives claiming to be transparent should back that up through their actions. Here the actions do not align with the interests of the public or the companies stated dedication to transparency. Won't be the first or last but lets not defend the best in class solution when human lives are in the mix.