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When I was around 15, I used to hang out with a guy who was much senior to me, and he would bully us sometimes. One day, when we were bantering, I cracked a jok

• Reflecticon 1y ago
  I'm sorry that happened to you. That's so horrible. Wanna make me beat up bullies, man. Got damn bullies.
  • kakacik 1y ago
    Their life is shit already, that's why they act as they act, passing aggression on to others in vain effort to get rid of some of that 'evil' in them. I understand this knee-jerk reaction very well, but it just feeds the neverending spiral of aggression. We humans act like storage of both good and bad, it then comes back up in various situations. What I want to say - you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up (or beaten up even more) further down the line. I am not saying love can fix it all, it can fix many things but sometimes once people become broken they just stay broken and there is no real way back.
    • exe34 1y ago
      > you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up (or beaten up even more) further down the line oh you need to convince them that more beatings would be forthcoming if they step out of line again.
      • btilly 1y ago
        This idea is naively appealing, but is not backed up by research. Closely related, corporal punishment results in kids who are more likely to try to get their way through violence. Though they'll also take care not to be caught doing so. This is one of the big reasons why psychologists argue against using corporal punishment.
        • martin-t 1y ago
          I do believe there's a difference where the punishment comes from. Aggressors[0] generally attack others one of or a combination of these reasons: 1) Pleasure/amusement/entertainment. Some people simply enjoy seeing others (everyone, specific subgroups or specific individuals) suffer. 2) Personal benefit/gain. Very often this is simply social status among peers. As aggressors grow, they refine these strategies (both consciously and unconsciously) to also gain social status in the eyes of people in positions of power (e.g. superiors/supervisors/managers), often with a resulting material benefit. Sometimes the material benefit is more direct - e.g. scammers. A) If the punishment comes from people in positions of power: With reason 1) it offsets the pleasure they get but quick corporal punishment is probably less effective than longer punishments such as exclusion from activities or having to perform laborious tasks. However, with reason 2) any punishment, corporal or not, creates or reinforces a persecution complex (after all, they are just doing what they think everyone should be doing - climbing the social ladder) and often even helps them gain status because they are doing what their peers secretly also want to do - break the rules and stick it to the people in positions of power. B) If the punishment comes from peers or especially the target, it defeats both reasons. Very few aggressors get pleasure from betting beat up by their target or other peers. And with reason 2 especially, they now risk losing social status if the target wins or it's a signal that this the behavior is not accepted by the group if it comes from peers. The issue with B often is that to onlookers who don't know how it started, it looks like 2 people fighting, instead of one being the aggressor and the other being the target mounting a successful defense. But that can be solved through better education of people in positions of power. What I find especially concerning are all these zero tolerance policies which actively encourage people to not defend others and sometimes even themselves. [0]: I generally don't call them bullies because that conjures an image of children in a schoolyard but these people grow up to become adults and their behavior is driven by the same urges and incentives, it just manifests slightly differently. Being an aggressor is a mentality and a personality trait.
    • deaux 1y ago
      > Their life is shit already, that's why they act as they act, passing aggression on to others in vain effort to get rid of some of that 'evil' in them. The exact same can be said for good ole Adi. And many of his ilk currently alive. What you're saying isn't a straightforward universal truth. There's no one right answer. Some of the time, what you're saying is very true. Other times it's very much not. GP's reaction as such isn't "knee-jerk". The equation doesn't suddenly change the second the "evildoer" in question turns 18, or 21.
    • shadyKeystrokes 1y ago
      [dead]
    • Llamamoe 1y ago
      IIRC this is a misconception and bullies bully strategically to climb the social ladder and benefit from it. It's possible that they do it because they learned pathological systems of behaviour from pathological family/social experiences, but even if fighting back against them is also shitty, it beats enabling them to keep doing it (especially to you)
      • btilly 1y ago
        No, that is absolutely not a misconception, and is backed by peer reviewed research such as https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/why-stigmatized-adolescents-bully-more-role-self-esteem-and-academic-status-0 https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/why-stigmatized-ado.... What you may be thinking of is research showing that when kids get to know each other, the ones who will become socially dominant tend to be aggressive early. But once they achieve social status, they usually turn around and become far nicer. With further aggression limited to those who have not accepted their dominance. The most common scenario for continued aggression is someone near the social bottom, who is attempting to reinforce that there is someone who is still firmly below them.
        • martin-t 1y ago
          The study seems to use self-reported perception of being a bully as the main metric. They didn't even bother making the children rate each other. > But once they achieve social status, they usually turn around and become far nicer This sounds to me that their (unprovoked) aggression worked and that counter-aggression should have been encouraged earlier to make it a less viable strategy. --- This also does not describe any kind of bullying I've seen or heard about. It was always those with a high social status, usually a group, though often with a clear leader, targeting one or two children with a low social status. Some of this bullying was not even driven by the need to gain social status but simple pleasure - see my other comments - pleasure/amusement/entertainment is a major reason for bullying. I've literally never seen a low-social status child bully a high-social status one. How would that even work? Wouldn't the supposed target be defended by his group?
          • 1y ago
    • gedy 1y ago
      I don't agree. Most of the bullies I dealt with growing up were privileged shits who had never had anyone cut them down a notch.
    • Nevermark 1y ago
      Somehow others experience shit situations without needing to self-sooth by inflicting similar pain on others. Bullying is not a form of innocently misguided, or sympathy deserving, coping. I think that view is best interpreted as an inaccurate but well meaning rationalization offered to bullied people, to suggest more passive karma is present than there is. Often by those uncomfortable with the pervasive element of real-politik physical negotiation throughout nature. Bullies are cruel because they are getting something psychological and practical from the practice. Usually both. Violence exists because it is a very effective tool. And just as easily a tool for good. Bullies’ behavior is famously responsive to people who vigorously retaliate or are strongly defended. Even to the point of genuinely respecting those strong enough to give back punishment, as well as they can take. Bullies are also famously quick to offer their subservience to bigger bullies. Suddenly pliable “lambs” in that context, offering up their own power. These are rational choices for those that operate in the violence economy, not the flailings of broken souls. Which makes standing up to all bullies in the world dramatically more important, than the calculus of any individual situation might seem to suggest. Like all economic realms, norms that bend to lower the costs of applying bullying, violence, threat and fear power, only incentivize further expansion, investment and innovation.
    • JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up Beating up a bully as self defence is categorically different from beating up a random bully. Neither is also necessary for the next step, which is involving authorities to establish a path to rehabiliation or incapacitation.
    • matkoniecz 1y ago
      > Their life is shit already, that's why they act as they act (...) you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up (or beaten up even more) further down the line human social life is complex and such overgeneralization are almost never right in some cases self-defense entirely fixes the problem > We humans act like storage of both good and bad, it then comes back up in various situations. that is an utter nonsense, in some cases endless hugging and patting just leaves you exploited > passing aggression on to others in vain effort to get rid of some of that 'evil' in them well, sadly sometimes violence is right or least bad solution
    • Spooky23 1y ago
      Sometimes. I had a kid who’d get his buddies together and ambush me in the way out of school. His mom was an employee and the school staff would mysteriously not see anything involving him. He then came at me by himself with a stick when I was walking my sister home far from school. I beat the shit out of him, broke his nose, bruised a rib and he sprained his ankle. My sister told her friends, and all of those little shits stayed away. He’s lucky - a year or two later I would have been stronger and probably hurt him pretty bad. I will say that schools are much better at dealing with this behavior now. I’m sure the kid had problems, but it wasn’t my responsibility as a 10/11 year old to hug it out, and none of the 1980s adults seemed to give a shit.
      • indymike 1y ago
        > I will say that schools are much better at dealing with this behavior now. As a father of five, with the youngest now in high school, my recent experience is we've moved from physical violence to using the system to bully victims.
    • exoverito 1y ago
      Stunningly weak mentality. Not surprised to see it on display here, HN is polluted with broken dorks. If you don't fight back you will be the victim of further abuse. If there's no countervailing force against sadistic psychopaths, they will continue their destructive behavior. You should absolutely beat the shit out of bullies. To idly stand by out of some misguided slave morality, you permit their evil, and allow the world to become worse.
    • devjab 1y ago
      I've only been bullied once, so it's hard for me to really talk outside of that single time. I'm different and I've never given too many fucks about social norms or hierarchies, and I guess a bully from two grades above me took that as a sign I would be a good victim. Anyway, I knew what way he walked home, so the day after he had bullied me I hid in a bush. When he walked by I ambushed him with a stick and demanded he give me his school bagpack... I hoisted it into the school flagpole the next day... Like a total psychopath. Looking back on it, it's frigthening how few consequences there was for what was obviously way out of line. I guess the early 90ies were just a different time. He probably had a shit life, but I never saw him bully anyone again.
    • tw04 1y ago
      >What I want to say - you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up (or beaten up even more) further down the line. I can tell you first hand this definitely isn't true in all cases. We had a bully at my school who constantly picked on all sorts of people. Eventually he decided to pick on one of my best friends who got sick of it and took him to the ground and punched him in the face about 15 times. It was like a light switch - the bully became one of the chillest, nicest kids in our grade after that. He figured out pretty quickly that getting punched in the face isn't much fun and decided it was probably better to stop being a dick to everyone around him because he didn't know who the next person was that would return his shenanigans with violence.
  • squarefoot 1y ago
    Most bullies just vent out what they suffer at home, school or workplace. They already punish themselves by not reacting against the real source of their problems.
    • Difwif 1y ago
      A valid rationalization but never an excuse. At some point the buck has to stop being passed around. Standing up to all instances of violence is the only way to stop the endless cycles.
    • matkoniecz 1y ago
      that is not a valid reason for others to suffer their cruelty and not apply effective self-defense
    • squarefoot 1y ago
      Clarification: I never justified what bullies do, just giving an explanation. I should have made more explicit that punishing alone accomplishes nothing if the source of the problem isn't addressed: they just go to the next easier victim.
  • objektif 1y ago
    I do have dreams of beating up bullies. Count me in.
    • King-Aaron 1y ago
      There were times over the years I played the waiting game and got back at certain bullies. Each time I got in a heap of trouble, but always recovered my pound of flesh.
      • Aerroon 1y ago
        What I find aggravating is when people turn to the "grow up, what's past is past" after they faced no consequences for their actions. Now you're the bad guy for not letting it go.
      • steve_adams_86 1y ago
        Each time I was forced to fight a bully, I came away from it horrified by what I'd done. Violence never felt good to me.
    • Roark66 1y ago
      Finally growing up big enough and successfully beating up a bully was one of the best memories of childhood I have...
  • gchamonlive 1y ago
    I'm not saying you should forget it, but every second you waste thinking about revenge is a second the bully won another time. It's also another second you are not dedicating for the people you love and care.
    • pohl 1y ago
      Trying now to analyze the limit of this principle as the bully approaches POTUS.
      • gchamonlive 1y ago
        I don't think this principle holds to this extreme.
      • 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
        In the case where you are still actively being bullied, you gotta do something to stop it first
    • amy_petrik 1y ago
      > but every second you waste thinking about revenge is a second the bully won another time. It's also another second you are not dedicating for the people you love and care. I agree with this and this is why I'm an advocate of fighting back on the spot, yelling, etc, if it's someone crossing a boundary such that it'll bother you forever. Because if you hold you ground, it's over and you held your ground, nothing to be upset about again.
      • deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      • kayodelycaon 1y ago
        Unfortunately, life isn’t that simple. I tried that and gotten beaten up and punished by the school for starting a fight. Multiple times. The bullies never got punished. This happened at two different schools. I had difficulty explaining what happened due to being neurodivergent, so I was always punished. And my parents weren’t able to help me.
• foxyv 1y ago
  My brother picked me up by the neck once. I still have nightmares about it. Kids are so insanely cruel.
• discordance 1y ago
  Caught this podcast recently on near death experiences (NDE), which discusses some of the recent research as well as spiritual factors: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/godforbid/near-death-experiences-spirituality/104408142 https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/godforbid/near-death-...
• INTPenis 1y ago
  This is my nightmare. That me dying will feel just like my regular nightmares that I have today, which are all about common day stressful situations like not finding my partner in a crowd, or constantly chasing the same person and never catching up to them. An anxiety filled death is what I have coming.
  • nurettin 1y ago
    Perhaps a peaceful and serene death doesn't exist despite what people would like to believe so you won't be missing out.
  • sophrosyne42 1y ago
    I feel for you INTPenis
• nandomrumber 1y ago
  [flagged]
• sush1612 1y ago
  Essentially, the brain is doing a last-ditch systems check — replaying memories, emotional anchors, and learned survival cues to find any relevant information or pattern that might aid escape or coping.