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Ground stop at JFK due to staffing
- slater 11mo agoGet Kennedy Steve back in there!
- bragr 11mo agoI think even Kennedy Steve wouldn't do it just for the love of the game. At this point you have to figure a lot of the people calling out "sick" are just doing it so they can Uber or door dash or something like that to come up with money for a car payment or rent/mortgage.
- shadowgovt 11mo agoAlso, tomorrow's Halloween and folks have kids. Time to put the finishing touches on the costumes and carve the last pumpkins.
- sgloutnikov 11mo agoKennedy Steve is a legend, loved listening to JFK when he was on. Here's an interview with him for the fans if they have missed it [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1cKfZatlQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1cKfZatlQ4
- matmo 11mo agoWhat does this actually mean? All flights around JFK are cancelled until further notice? Can someone translate? Does this affect EWR and LGA?
- otterley 11mo agoAny flights that are to depart for JFK but are still on the ground must stay put until the expiration or cancellation of the stop. No, it doesn’t impact other airports.
- CamperBob2 11mo agoAny disruption at one major airport affects pretty much all the airports, if it lasts long enough. Those grounded planes will soon be expected elsewhere.
- otterley 11mo agoAgreed - but they’re not directly impacted by this ground stop.
- delfinom 11mo agoFlights are delayed, however since planes are choreographed by airlines for maximum utilization, long enough delays and you will see mass cancellations, potentially across large swaths of the country. i.e. a plane for one route might go between various different cities in 24 hours, with different crew each time of course before it gets back to the first route.
- andreybaskov 11mo agoI once landed a GA airplane in a very busy uncontrolled class C airport that closed its tower at 4pm due to staff shortage, but was still operational. Since then I have a tremendous respect for aviation resilience to any single point failure. I imaging having entire JFK on CTAF isn't an option though.
- chris_va 11mo agoThis is Alaska 37, wings up turning base over Coney Island...
- irjustin 11mo ago[flagged]
- Cheer2171 11mo agoIf you can't understand the article, how do you know the LLM did? Delete this unverified hallucinated slop. Then delete your HN account. If people want an LLM summary of an article, they can do it themselves.
- whycome 11mo agoAll you’re encouraging is for users to not acknowledge when they use an LLM. You’ll get the same stuff added to threads. Even now, humans contribute unverified slop to threads too - have we ever had a way of verifying what someone contributes other than the occasional citation? A solution might be somewhere in the middle. LLMs aren’t going anywhere, and they will only become more invisible.
- Cheer2171 11mo agoGood. The shame is the point. If you're going to rely on an LLM, then take ownership over the words you post under your own account. Just posting "this is what the LLM said" with no other content means they take no responsibility for what they say, but still think they are making a contribution. "Use it as a tool" is always the line from LLM advocates. Okay. If you used a search engine as a tool to find some source, you don't need to say "I used google to find this," you just present the link as your contribution. You found the source. If it is a bad source, you can't get away blaming the search engine. You fucked up the source. Same with LLMs. If you actually use it as a tool and not an outsourcing of your own role, then you shouldn't need to disclose. But using it as a tool means more than just typing "summarize this for hackernews" and mindlessly copy pasting. If they summarized, validated, and was confident enough in the summary that they felt they didn't need the "I asked an LLM" disclaimer, then that's a contribution. Maybe it is still wrong. As you say, there is a lot of that on the internet. So yes, we should be shaming those who admit using it to outsource their role. People who want to make contributions when they are completely unqualified to distinguish between a good and bad contribution will learn to hide their use. Good. People who are both attention addicts needing to always make a contribution and who are now cognitive addicts should live their lives in fear over knowing if what they are saying under their own name will get them ridiculed.
- johncolanduoni 11mo agoThe things that are and aren’t considered essential enough to fund during a government shutdown are insane. Is this enshrined in a statute somewhere? Feels like adding air traffic controllers to that list should be a no-brainer (and broadly politically popular).
- CGamesPlay 11mo agoIsn't the point of the government shutdown to be painful? It's a self-imposed failure condition, we could "optimize" it by removing the shutdown entirely.
- evilduck 11mo agoAgreed, but the people who can legislate away shutdowns are the same ones who are currently using shutdowns as a political tool. There's no chance the current climate would do that.
- Sabinus 11mo agoMany parliamentary systems dissolve the government if they fail to pass a budget. "Can't run the country, time for an election. "
- gruez 11mo ago>Is this enshrined in a statute somewhere? Feels like adding air traffic controllers to that list should be a no-brainer (and broadly politically popular). They are considered essential. That means they have to work, but not be paid. https://time.com/7329683/government-shutdown-flight-delays-cancellations-air-traffick-controllers-pay/ https://time.com/7329683/government-shutdown-flight-delays-c...
- johncolanduoni 11mo agoBut it seems like certain jobs are funded for the duration anyway (infamously, members of Congress are one). Who would argue that air traffic controllers shouldn’t be on that rarefied list?
- apothegm 11mo agoIs this due to funding and government shutdown? Or just people unable to make it to work due to severe flooding?
- delfinom 11mo agoProbably both tbh. I'm sure they are less motivated to deal with today's torrential downpour with no pay.
- subscribed 11mo agoProbably stressed out people aren't so keen to work for free. https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k
- yndoendo 11mo agoWho knew electing shitty representation leads to a shitty environment and economy? I wish those effected by the shitty government the best Forcing people to work and not pay them is slavery!
- tombert 11mo agoI got in trouble at a BigCo because I said "we all do this for the money", and they claimed that I had a "bad attitude". But I don't think I was wrong. Work is fundamentally a business transaction; I sell my time and expertise and they give me money and benefits. Ultimately for any job I've had, even jobs that I really loved, if they stopped paying me I'd stop showing up [1]. It's nothing personal, that's just the transaction that I agreed to. If I had some bloviating wannabe-demagogue telling me that I should keep working and to not expect backpay, I am quite confident that I would quit, or at least keep calling in sick. I am not going to blame anyone who would do the same. I have no fucking idea why half the country voted for this. [1] This has actually been tested for one job.
- imperfect_light 11mo agoYou should ask BigCo if they're only providing goods/services to their customers "for the money."
- Ekaros 11mo agoIf they are not doing just for money. Surely you should be able to give very good discounts to customer. After all why are profits aka. money needed?
- john_moscow 11mo agoSurviving at BigCo is all about saying one thing, and often doing quite the opposite to advance your career. If you don't like it, working at a BigCo could be quite soul-draining.
- tombert 11mo ago
- sigmar 11mo agoanyone have any apps they use to follow FAA ground stops? maybe I'll put a link to https://nasstatus.faa.gov/ https://nasstatus.faa.gov/ on my phone
- crm9125 11mo agoMakes sense. Why would ATC go to work when their employer says they won't get paid? Until UBI is a thing, they (necessarily) need to be very cognizant of where they spend their time in relation to where they make their money. Republicans should propose a reasonable solution that will get the votes to pass, otherwise, this will continue.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- ipython 11mo agoMy concern is that we will end up in a state of perpetual government "shutdown". The republicans, instead of reopening the entire government, will simply choose agencies to fund in order to keep the pain felt by the American people just low enough so they don't get fired (ala office space). Once that happens, Congress has basically iced itself out. Oversight from unfriendly government agencies? No worries, they're shut down because they're unpaid. And clearly this demonstrates the executive needs more power, since Congress is completely frozen. Finally, the Supreme Court is no longer an issue either, since that's not funded either. Someone tell me why this couldn't happen.
- ares623 11mo agoSpeed running to become an actual developing nation. This is what millions of migrants are trying to escape from. Ironic, for all parties involved (well, except for the ones on top of course)
- donmcronald 11mo ago> Speed running to become an actual developing nation. That's what it looks like from the outside, but I can't understand what the gain is. Who benefits? The result of the middle class was massive advancement and an equally massive increase in standard of living for the wealthy who captured most of the gains. What do they gain from stagnating innovation and a lack of education, services, etc.? It makes me think of the old Olympic and sports videos. The participants basically suck because they're coming from a small pool of people wealthy enough to not need a job. Do they really want the pool of candidates competing to become doctors, etc. to be smaller which will end up lowering the overall quality for them? Or do they think they'll simply hire the best and brightest from other countries that are investing in their citizens?
- bryant 11mo ago"better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven" is the expression and idea you're looking for. Alternatively "better to rule among the miserable than to serve among the great." It's a consistent theme with most autocracies.
- zermelo 11mo agoTo most of the commentators saying "why work when you're not getting paid", please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't federal employees not paid during a government shutdown getting retroactive pay once funding has been restored?
- recursive 11mo agoI don't think anyone knows.
- thetron 11mo agoYou can't buy food with an IOU from your employer.
- knollimar 11mo agoNew startup idea?
- lmm 11mo ago> You can't buy food with an IOU from your employer. Historically in times of war or civil disorder it's often been possible.
- nocoiner 11mo agoSometimes you can. A decade or so ago when California ran out of money, they issued warrants to their payees, and lots of banks accepted those at face value.
- dragonwriter 11mo agoLast time was July-August 2009 (and before that in 1992 and 1933.) But those registered warrants aren’t abstract expectations of future payment, but debt instruments with a fixed interest rate when issued.
- collinmcnulty 11mo agoPractically speaking, you are correct, but interestingly all dollars are literally an IOU from the US government, so you do buy food with an IOU from their employer. Debt from or to a sovereign is the basis for all money.
- hnburnsy 11mo agoMCO ATCSCC ADVZY 151 DCC 10/30/2025 OPERATIONS PLAN https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis?adv_date=10302025&advn=151 https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdis?adv_date=10302025&a... >MCO GROUND DELAY PROGRAM WAS ISSUED AND USERS CAN EXPECT A PERIOD OF TIME LATER IN THE EVENINGWHEN NO ARRIVALS WILL BE ABLE TO LAND AS THERE WILL BE NO CERTIFIED AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AVAILABLE AT MCO.
- dpe82 11mo agoATC is severely understaffed nationwide and it's particularly bad in the New York area even without a government shutdown. It's a difficult, stressful job and was already even harder because mandatory overtime has been the norm for quite a while. So it's not surprising that when you stop paying people... some of them will start finding reasons they can't make it to work. This has been a known problem for a very long time and Congress has continuously refused to do anything about it.
- mlrtime 11mo agoNot paying is just 1 of the reasons. There are many stressful important jobs in America. ATC is in a unique position of getting squeezed at all ends. There are 1000's of qualified people wanting to apply but the government bureaucracy halts it. What is the median time from application to FTH for a ATC?
- esalman 11mo agoI was listening in on a Twitch stream today, and the streamer mentioned he wanted to become an ATC, but was told he needs to have military experience to become one.
- hnburnsy 11mo agoAdvisory 27, Ground stop was lifted, Disregard Expected Departure Clearance Times for flights destined to JFK. ------------------- ATCSCC ADVZY 027 JFK/ZNY 10/31/2025 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAM CNX MESSAGE: CTL ELEMENT: JFK ELEMENT TYPE: APT ADL TIME: 0252Z GDP CNX PERIOD: 31/0252Z - 31/1517Z DISREGARD EDCTS FOR DEST JFK COMMENTS: EFFECTIVE TIME: 310256-311617 SIGNATURE: 25/10/31 02:56
- johnbatch 11mo agoThis was canceled 21 minutes after it was issued. https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list?whichAdvisories=ATCSCC&advisoryCategory=NotAll&date=2025-10-31&_airflow=on&_ctop=on&gStop=true&_gStop=on&_gDelay=on&_route=on&_other=on https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list?whichAdvisories=ATCSCC&...
- whamlastxmas 11mo ago[flagged]
- M95D 11mo agoDisgruntled employee(s)?
- mlrtime 11mo ago[flagged]
- whamlastxmas 11mo ago[flagged]
- alephnerd 11mo agoThe ground stop mentioned ended 7 hours ago and seemed to be due to an airplane emergency [0]. [0] - https://pix11.com/news/local-news/ground-stops-at-jfk-due-to-aircraft-emergency-faa/ https://pix11.com/news/local-news/ground-stops-at-jfk-due-to...
- Pxtl 11mo agoDo Americans know that other countries don't have this wierd "government shuts down if we don't pass a budget" thing?
- alephnerd 11mo agoThe ground stop was due to an aircraft emergency [0] and lifted within 21 minutes of being announced [1]. There are plenty of reasons to call out the shutdown, but using disinfo is the wrong method. [0] - https://pix11.com/news/local-news/ground-stops-at-jfk-due-to-aircraft-emergency-faa/ https://pix11.com/news/local-news/ground-stops-at-jfk-due-to... [1] - https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list?whichAdvisories=ATCSCC&advisoryCategory=NotAll&date=2025-10-31&_airflow=on&_ctop=on&gStop=true&_gStop=on&_gDelay=on&_route=on&_other=on https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list?whichAdvisories=ATCSCC&...
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- metabagel 11mo agoOther ground delays due to ATC staffing issues, though. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ground-delays-issued-shortage-air-controllers-shutdown-continues-rcna241001 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ground-delays-issued-sh...
- alephnerd 11mo agoThen post and report about that incident, not the JFK incident.
- BergAndCo 11mo agoAs always, I had to scroll to the bottom of the comments for HN to be any semblance of useful.
- Pxtl 11mo agoI'm still confused why he replied this to me though instead of making it a top level post.
- whatever1 11mo agoWhy can't the airlines pay the air traffic controllers? They pay anyway for airport fees, it should be a minimal difference in the ticket cost.
- moelf 11mo agoIIUC they legally can't do that. ATC are federal employees, you can't just have private companies pay off federal workers. (Well, I know Trump's friend is literally doing that for the military so idk, maybe laws are just words these days)
- hshdhdhehd 11mo agoWhy hire private? Why not fund the existing federal ones?
- trenchpilgrim 11mo agoIn previous shutdowns, Congress passed temporary funding bills to keep paying certain functions such as ATC for a few weeks while negotiating the budget. This time, negotiations seem to have entirely stalled.
- whatever1 11mo agoCompanies can give gifts to individuals, as long as they report them and pay tax on them.
- plasticsoprano 11mo agoExcept the ground stop was due to an emergency with a flight from Puerto Rico https://rollingout.com/2025/10/30/jfk-airport-frontier-flight-emergency/ https://rollingout.com/2025/10/30/jfk-airport-frontier-fligh...
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- macinjosh 11mo agoATC should be a computer at this point.
- vesterthacker 11mo agoSafety always comes first. Good call! I wouldn’t want to travel without proper staffing in place. Do you think other airports will follow suit? I hope so.
- insane_dreamer 11mo agoMaybe they could take the money to keep "essential" ICE thug^H^H^H^Hagents grabbing people off the street, to fund the truly essential ATCs that make air travel possible.
- sershe 11mo agoWhy are ATC paid by the federal government anyway? As far as I understand airports are separate private heavily regulated entities. Seems like thus should be trivial to solve by having airports/municipalities pay for their ATC. Might also improve the pay if they have to compete and take blame for this kind of stuff, instead of passing the buck.
- 0xbadcafebee 11mo agoSimple: even in the 1930s, it was obvious that a private corporation would prioritize profit over safety. At the time it was mostly rich people who could afford to fly. So, miraculously, the government decided it needed to ensure the safety of air travel. Trump famously wanted to privatize the ATC in his first term. But now all the industry veterans are saying they'd much rather have the modernizations proposed for the government system (https://www.npr.org/2025/06/27/nx-s1-5442651/privatizing-air-traffic-control-faa https://www.npr.org/2025/06/27/nx-s1-5442651/privatizing-air...) than switch to a private model. What's funny is, we're gonna fuck it up either way.
- dingaling 11mo agoFor comparison: Terminal ATC in the UK is a competitive market. Each airport is free to tender for private companies to operate the service. En route ATC remains a government-granted monopoly awarded to NATS, which is the privatised former national provider.
- johneth 11mo agoNATS is also half-owned by the UK government + they have a golden share.
- sershe 11mo agoPrivate corporation seem to be doing fine with pilots though, both for rich people, and for commercial aviation. Doesn't seem that different
- 0xbadcafebee 11mo agoAnother fun "quirk" of Hacker News: this post has been unlinked from all front pages (you can't find it by hitting "More" from front page) even though it was on the front page very recently. What I was going to say before was: Remember when air traffic controllers went on strike, and Reagan killed the future of unions in the USA by firing all the striking workers and banning them from ever having a government job? This is the legacy of that action. Never underestimate the lasting impact of an incompetent entertainer made President.