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GM will ditch Apple CarPlay and Android Auto on all its cars, not just EVs
- syntaxing 11mo agoCarPlay is probably the top of my list of features when I buy a car. I can careless about performance specs after a certain threshold. But not having CarPlay would straight up go into my do not buy list (yes, I wouldn’t buy a Rivian or tesla either.)
- jbm 11mo agoI used to feel this way, but nowadays I've come to realize that Carplay's UX is inferior to my iPhone's UX on a mount. As long as I have Bluetooth or Aux-in, I'm fine. (That isn't to say that I think GM will somehow produce anything other than a captured rent extraction tool)
- dangus 11mo agoYou might as well be making the “I’m okay with my 2004 Honda accord with a tape adapter” argument. There is no cost reason to exclude the option. Even if I don’t use it, if I’m buying a $30-50k new vehicle it better have it, even if that’s for the sake of resale or future family members I might pass the car down to. My 2016 has it, why am I tolerating the removing of such a feature? If you want unscientific evidence you’ll notice that the Honda Prologue (has CarPlay) outsells the Equinox EV it’s based on. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/06/about-one-third-of-car-buyers-insist-on-apple-carplay-or-android-auto-study/ https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/06/about-one-third-of-car-...
- olyjohn 11mo agoI think it's hilarious that I can upgrade my 2004 Honda Accord and add CarPlay into it with a myriad of screen sizes and options, features, cameras. There's an entire world of car stereo / infotainment gear out there that is cheaper and better than ever. Meanwhile, everybody with their new cars are just stuck with the terrible built in systems, or can only upgrade with a $1000 worth of audio processing gear and multi-channel amplifiers.
- dangus 11mo agoI think this is a negative recency bias, nobody makes aftermarket stuff for brand new cars because nobody with a brand new car is trying to augment it. You can find infotainment replacement systems for more recent cars. Example: https://www.caraudiocoho.com/products/mazda-6-car-radio-multimedia-player-1025screen-2017-2019-android-100-1920720-octa-core-6-128g-andriod-oem-system https://www.caraudiocoho.com/products/mazda-6-car-radio-mult...
- olyjohn 11mo agoYour link proves my exact point. You need some specific one-off gear from some no-name android tablet manufacturer that doesn't fit any other car. LOL@ this thing running Android 12, which was out of support in March of this year... Much aftermarket support wow. The 2004 Accord has a DIN slot in it. Which has a myriad of options available for it, despite the dwindling aftermarket. Have you seen how to upgrade a 2023 Honda Accord infotainment system? You can't without major work. You can use the factory head unit, and feed all the amplified signals into a $1000+ sound processor, with a bunch of other modules specifically built for the car, then run the speaker outputs out to some crazy-ass 8 channel amplifier (because more speakers means the stereo is better for some reason), then feed that back to your speakers. And then at that point, all you've upgraded is the audio, not even the head unit itself. And why does it even have a center channel again? Also, people obviously care about what infotainment is in their cars, as there is a huge amount of people saying they won't buy a car without CarPlay. Sounds like people DO want to augment their infotainment systems. Nobody is trying to do it, because you can't do it. Imagine if you could buy the car you wanted, and install your own accessories in it.
- dangus 11mo agoLook, I wasn’t even getting into proprietary or not. Obviously generic DIN was better than the present automotive industry situation. You made a claim that you can’t upgrade these systems without $1000 of gear and I proved that idea wrong with a single link. It doesn’t really matter that it’s Android 12 - nobody really cares because all it has to do is run CarPlay and Android Auto. As long as the system can do that it’s infinitely upgradable from a software perspective. Nobody’s actually using the base Android system. I also have a friend that spent under $500 to add CarPlay to a Chevy Sonic with a similar system and they’re very happy with it. And that’s why I want a car to have CarPlay and Android auto, because it negates any need to upgrade the system down the line. The upgrades happen on your phone. Imagine if you could install your own accessories in it…like the one I linked? I mean, again, I get it, it’s not a simple DIN setup but for the 1% of people who are interested in upgrading their car system this this is a real product you can buy for basically any car model. I owned an Alpine head unit for my 2005 Volkswagen and I wouldn’t really describe it as not janky compared to the OEM head unit, but the thing had Bluetooth and that’s all I needed.
- jbm 11mo agoMy "real lived experience" with a CarPlay device that I installed into my 2016 Toyota Sienna is that it was slow, annoying, and I actually removed it. You can have it for free if you are in the Calgary area, my email is in my profile. The UX difference compared to my phone, and the change in speed / etc.. was infuriating. The experience with my phone was ALWAYS better. An argument based on the desires of fiscally illiterate people with 19.99% APR loans on oversized cars would make more sense if I worked for an auto company, thankfully I don't.
- dangus 11mo agoYeah that’s a Toyota problem, not a typical experience of old wired CarPlay systems at all. And again I’m not making some kind of pro-consumerism buy a new car right now argument, I’m just saying that in 2025 CarPlay and Android Auto are high demand features that a lot of people insist upon. I’m not making some kind of profound statement on the state of the car industry or whether infotainment is too deeply integrated into vehicles. I’m just saying if it was time for me to buy a new car I’m thinking twice about buying something that’s not giving me phone mirroring, just like I want my car to have FM radio even if I rarely or never use it.
- troad 11mo ago> You might as well be making the “I’m okay with my 2004 Honda accord with a tape adapter” argument. I love how authoritatively you say this, as though this is meant to be just so patently absurd it doesn't require any further argument. This is an attempted reductio ad absurdum, but the absurdum in question fails to actually be abusrd. Not everyone wants to drop $50K every few years on some liquid-glass-operated subscription-based monstrosity. Some people much prefer cars operated by knobs and dials, that are easy to repair, and dirt-cheap to replace. It's simply superior tech.
- pjmlp 11mo agoSame here in regards to Android. I only care about bluetooth for music and handling phone calls, don't get the point why having the actual car dashboard show phone stuff that relevant.
- listenallyall 11mo agoI think this may be the dilemma GM and others are in. Given that it's a must-have, how much can Google and Apple charge the manufacturers for a license? $2000 per car? 5000? More? I dont think you can necessarily criticize GM's decision (and making a public announcement that all other car manufacturers will read) without knowing the upstream costs.
- acdha 11mo agoIs there any public data on how much those licenses cost?
- 486sx33 11mo ago[dead]
- tehwebguy 11mo agoI don’t know but my best guess is in the low hundreds given the Vline sells for $679. Just installed one in a 2008 Lexus with a resistive touch screen and ancient interface, now I’ve got CarPlay. https://gromaudio.com/store/vline/ https://gromaudio.com/store/vline/
- acdha 11mo agoThanks, that's a good data point.
- AlotOfReading 11mo agoThere aren't really any licensing fees for Android Auto. Apple charged a few dozen dollars for the right to produce a car with the integration, rather than a license as such. There's integration costs and hardware, so it's not free, but generally it's cheaper than the alternative. Android automotive, the system GM is discussing here, is more expensive in every way than Android Auto. The reason they're switching is that Android Auto/carplay don't give GM enough additional monetization options for customers.
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- Casteil 11mo agoYep. Manufacturers ditching Apple Carplay/Android Auto support will, if not immediately, inevitably pursue rent-seeking behavior in the form of paid subscriptions for services people could otherwise just have for free (and likely better) via phone.
- etempleton 11mo agoIt is a crazy step for GM in particular because it is not like they have any distinct advantages or differentiators as an automaker. Rivian and Tesla have specific niche appeal. I am not sure anyone is clamoring for a Chevy in the same way. Lack of Apple car play is a feature your average user will be aware of and consider when purchasing a new car.
- nothercastle 11mo agoGMs top end vehicles have been plagued with exploding engines recently so to remove CarPlay is a crazy move. I wonder how much additional revenue they expect from pushing ads and their shitty infotainment experience
- mandeepj 11mo ago> CarPlay is probably the top of my list of features when I buy a car. It's so important and useful to me that I've been thinking of retrofitting my Corvette C6, either by jailbreaking an iPad or simply mounting it.
- Quitschquat 11mo agoRetrofitted my 2010 Tacoma beater because I can’t live without CarPlay
- dragon-hn 11mo agoFor what it is worth, there are lots of double DIN aftermarket AirPlay options for a C6. No need for an iPad.
- mandeepj 11mo ago> there are lots of double DIN aftermarket AirPlay You might call me spoiled, but I find 6” screen to be too small.
- vgeek 11mo agoCheck out the floating double DIN receivers like Alpine's Halo11 or search eBay for dozens of cheap no-name ones-- not sure about their SQ, though.
- mandeepj 11mo agoThanks! I found this one while searching for what I was looking for - https://www.knightdrivetv.com/products/c6-corvette-10-8-full-console-hvac-btooth-wifi-screen-founding-buyer-link-closes-june-2nd https://www.knightdrivetv.com/products/c6-corvette-10-8-full... It’s almost same price as Halo11, but seems to be far better product and fit! During first look of it, it felt expensive, but after looking at Halo11, it seems affordable :-)
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago> CarPlay is probably the top of my list of features when I buy a car Do you own a GM vehicle? Were you considering it? No CarPlay is a dealbreaker for me too. I’m just not convinced there are that many of us.
- pbh101 11mo agoThe number I’ve seen is that CarPlay specifically is in the top ~2 prios for 79% of new car shoppers in the US. I think there’s probably enough mass here, and GM doesn’t have the niche EV/SW cachet that Rivian and Tesla have despite lacking CarPlay so I don’t think this will go well for them.
- AlotOfReading 11mo agoIt's basically the feature to a huge number of consumers. Various numbers I've seen place not having it as a dealbreaker for somewhere between 15% to 80% of buyers, especially the younger ones. It's more important than virtually any other feature you can name.
- ryandrake 11mo agoWild how different people’s expectations can be. I’ve never even owned a car with any of these systems, yet they’re dealbreakers for others. Not saying they’re good or bad, just remarking on how something one person has never even thought about could be an absolute requirement for someone else!
- AlotOfReading 11mo agoIt's surprisingly common. A lot of standard features (reclining seats, AC, large fuel tanks, back seats, large trunks, fuel efficiency) aren't important to all buyers, but they're important to some buyers. Over time they creep into the standard feature set as manufacturers design new models because the economies of scale from additional customers and a simpler production line outweigh the additional costs.
- dpark 11mo ago
- teleforce 11mo ago+1 For me Android Auto is a must, it's a no brainer as a requirement for a new modern car. For the Love of God, what the GM, Rivian and Tesla engineers are thinking by not including CarPlay and Android Auto?
- pjmlp 11mo agoNothing, this is obviously a management decision.
- tonyedgecombe 11mo ago>I can careless about performance specs after a certain threshold. Don't you mean couldn't?
- zjp 11mo agoThat's a real dealbreaker. I've never seen an in-house media/nav system better than Apple's, and I don't expect GM's to be any different.
- al_borland 11mo agoIt’s not only that, but your phone already has all your data. Calendar appointments, addresses of contacts, music, podcasts, etc. Do replicate this, you’d either need to sync all of that to your car, or migrate to Google’s ecosystem… maybe both. With the track record of automakers and data privacy, I don’t know who would knowingly do that. It also seems like a giant pain when nearly every other car doesn’t ask the buyer to make this kind of choice.
- arthurcolle 11mo agoThey will 100% reverse this decision. Surprising it made it past engineering strategy & leadership at a company as large as GM and that they would even float this publicly without the details... but this will be walked back. How large companies can make it so far and still have such insane decision-making (management by instinct?) is so wild to behold.
- kevvok 11mo agoI think that'll only happen when and if the corresponding drop in sales offsets increases in revenue from the subscription services owners will be forced to use. When they announced this originally for EVs it was clear the underlying motivation was to convert owners from a one-time source of income into an ongoing stream by forcing them into a subscription model for features they would get from CarPlay/Android Auto.
- arthurcolle 11mo agoI don't drive so I just look at the whole industry from afar
- bizzletk 11mo ago
- jghn 11mo agoI guess GM won’t be my next car purchase
- HaZeust 11mo agoThe only active-production GM vehicle I've had my eyes on in recent years is a c8 Corvette, so this news makes it a lot easier to justify a purchase in the previous-year models that still had CarPlay/Auto. What a strange choice.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- exabrial 11mo agoCrikey this will be the last GMC Truck I own. Zero chance I use any car manufacturers infotainment system
- seanmcdirmid 11mo agoUnless you are Tesla, I just don't think you can do software well enough to forgo Apple or Google's auto stacks. And people will argue that Tesla isn't that great at it either, but it definitely does it better than all of the other auto manufacturers (disclaimer: I've heard, I don't own a Tesla).
- sixothree 11mo agoImagine how awful these interfaces will stand up to the test of time. I seriously doubt they will be getting meaningful updates in 10 years.
- janwl 11mo agoWhat are the chances phones in 10 years won’t be able to connect to the cars with CarPlay or Android auto from today.
- rkomorn 11mo agoDefinitely not zero (unfortunately).
- seanmcdirmid 11mo agoTesla is pretty good about updating its software at least, which is why I called it out. They even do infotainment hardware upgrades, I don't think anyone other car manufacturer is doing that right now (again, disclaimer: I own a BMW i4, not a Tesla, but I did my research before buying).
- laweijfmvo 11mo agoI have a Tesla. Fancy big screen, but one of the first things I did was stick an ugly phone mount right next to it. My phone has everything I need, which are mainly reliable maps and audio. And I’m certainly not paying for another data plan to use the same apps on my car when they work fine on my phone.
- yellowapple 11mo ago> In place of phone projection, GM is working to update its current Android-powered infotainment implementation with a Google Gemini-powered assistant and an assortment of other custom apps, built both in-house and with partners. I guess I'll add that to the ever-growing list of reasons why I'll never buy a GM vehicle manufactured in the current century.
- add-sub-mul-div 11mo agoMy car has no screens and neither will my next one. I can't cut the tech giants out of my life altogether but I'm reducing my reliance on them, not increasing their use cases where I don't need to. I'm not inviting them into my driving, my purchases, my music listening, my reading, or any other part of my life. Good for GM.
- kasey_junk 11mo agoIn the US that is going to restrict you to old used cars. Cars made after 2018 require a backup camera so there is virtually no other way to support the law.
- add-sub-mul-div 11mo agoMy current car is from 2003 and I'm happy with it. I'm fine with a backup camera screen, as long as I don't need Google/Apple in the mix and the controls (radio, climate, etc.) are not screen-based.
- kasey_junk 11mo agoGMC probably doesn’t care about your opinion on what they put in new cars if you’ve conceded you aren’t going to buy one. But I’d suggest to you that if GMC is not supporting Apple/Android projection it’s not because they want to support something simpler and more open. It’s because they want to own the whole system. Who do you trust more to build quality software and not rent seek in that situation?
- FloatArtifact 11mo agoDumb question, but do you think they're trying to monetize the data?
- hnburnsy 11mo agoYes, three ways minimum for GM to monetize this: subscriptions for features, telematics data gathering, ad and app revenue from third parties.
- etempleton 11mo agoMonetize the data and charge a recurring subscription. My guess would be they will try the latter first and if that is not profitable enough start selling user data, and if that doesn’t work, in car ads.
- throwawayimnew 11mo agoJust recently bought a Polestar because: 1) Yes CarPlay, 2) No Elon
- dramm 11mo agoCarplay is absolutely a requirement for me for any purchase. Mmmm maybe Barra knows something special about typical GM purchasers, or maybe she is just loony tunes nuts.
- kotaKat 11mo agoBut I don’t want to be forced to sign into a Google Account to use my vehicle. GM’s pivot to Android Automotive has forced Google Play and its complete walled garden into the vehicle at the bare metal. Google won. Apple loses. At the end of the day, Android users will just use the native AAOS and all the native built in Play crap, while Apple users get screwed.
- captainregex 11mo agoThis is such a self own.
- spicyusername 11mo agoI just got a car with Android auto for the first time, after owning an old car for quite a long time. It's an incredible step up in user experience. I can't possibly imagine the rationale for doing this being anything more than mismanagement. The only reason I can think of is that GM wants the user data that Android auto or Apple carplay collect, and they're willing to provide a worse user experience to collect it.
- slumberlust 11mo agoThat's exactly why. They want to sell as much of the users data as possible and steal another source of ad revenue (Google maps is already advertising businesses as I use the direction feature...oh look a Wendy's coming up...it's never enough).
- specialist 11mo agoJust like Tesla, GM has adopted the subscription model. GM's sub revenue is up: ~$2B YTD, ~$5B deferred to Q3. From just OnStar and Super Cruise. 11m and 100k subs, respectfully. Barra forecasts a decade of double digit growth with 70% margins. Of course they'll make their own entertainment stack too. "Q3 2025 Letter to Shareholders" https://investor.gm.com/news-releases/news-release-details/q3-2025-letter-shareholders https://investor.gm.com/news-releases/news-release-details/q... Page 8 in "Ongoing operational agility and strong execution, Q3 2025 Earnings" https://investor.gm.com/static-files/b55f99a7-8524-40ec-89e3-d1837b32039a https://investor.gm.com/static-files/b55f99a7-8524-40ec-89e3... All other manufacturers will eventually follow suit. Tragic.
- tanseydavid 11mo agoWhat a really dumb idea. Detroit <sigh>.