5 ms·

What's the benefit for trump and co. helping out Argentina (other than helping a kindred spirit, the current Argentinian president)? I really can't see any bene

What's the benefit for trump and co. helping out Argentina (other than helping a kindred spirit, the current Argentinian president)? I really can't see any benefit for the US in this move. Hopefully, someone more versed in economics can explain what the missing angle is, if any.

jordanb 1y ago
Apparently there are a lot of hedge funds invested in Argentina. Presumably Trump's support will decline once they've covered their positions.
- ta9000 1y ago
  It really is that simple, corruption.
- gdulli 1y ago
  Make America's Accredited Investors Great Again
donavanm 1y ago
Its intervening to save a democratic and aligned country from yet-another economic collapse and political crises at their upcoming national elections. Not dissimilar to what the us did for mexico during the peso crisis and revaluation in the 90s. I dont know why “bail out” is the headline term, it’s closer to a “currency backstop” AFAIK. The us is effectively extending hard dollars in exchange for pesos, allowing the argentine govt to not be destroyed in the open currency markets. If this works the peso would retain (or gain) value as the country recovers (economically, due to the ongoing reforms) and the us could feasibly even profit. On the USD and peso backstop its important to note that “dollarization” was a big talking point for milei. But argentina never had anywhere close to enough USD reserves or even USD economic flows to make that at all feasible ever. Like many many billions away from plausible. So there was a background theme of trying to catch them out on that as well since the last elections. Edit: and for context the current run against the peso is effectively because of dumb milei posturing ahead of regional elections, and a strong populist/peronist result. Lots of fear that if its repeated at the upcoming national elections then argentina goes back to kirchner style populism and debt/economic blow up.
- coliveira 1y ago
  The only people who will benefit from this are the financial elite in Argentina who are selling pesos and getting dollars as quickly as they can, and the hedge funds who invested in Argentina and need a way out. The current government, which is a bad joke, will never win anything else. The economy will continue to go south because this plan doesn't work even in the short term.
  - lezojeda 1y ago
    [dead]
  - donavanm 1y ago
    I personally think milei the politician is a clown. And many of his statements are just offensive to anyone who can spark two braincells together. I also thought he was going to burn it all down in a blaze of hubris after his election. But its hard to argue with arresting the inflation, gdp, and budget surplus numbers. Im not sure how the economy is “going south.” Generously the policies have arrested the slide? I dont imagine the typical argentine is better off with 200% inflation, 50% unemployment, and a 57% poverty rate. Avoiding that return seems to be quite a benefit for just about everyone?
    - Daishiman 1y ago
      > But its hard to argue with arresting the inflation, gdp, and budget surplus numbers. Im not sure how the economy is “going south.” Generously the policies have arrested the slide? Sure it is. Public education and science funding is at a historic minimum that is destroying tons of long term scientific and educational initiatives. Roads are falling apart in a gigantic country and what’s left of rail is being scrapped for parts and sold to private entities that will let rails decay just like everywhere else where it was privatized. Consumer spending continues to go down, industry is not competitive with this fake exchange rate causing a loss of high quality jobs and forcing everyone to take a second job as an Uber driver. We’ve seen this play out again and again. The government will default, then hyperinflation and social crises until the low prices of everything make the economy competitive again. This has played out again and again with far more competent governments and we keep being right about it.
nashashmi 1y ago
This is the first attempt at aligning the world to a Trump World Order and away from the New world order started by Eisenhower.
clipsy 1y ago
Perhaps some of his administration consider Argentina a back-up in the event that things go poorly for them in America. I've heard of something like that happening before.
estearum 1y ago
Scott Bessent is besties with Rob Citrone who is one of the largest purchasers of Argentine debt. He lobbied Bessent, Bessent said "Sure!" Sometimes it really is that simple. https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/bailing-out-bessents-buddies-bets https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/bailing-out-bessents-budd... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/us/politics/argentina-bailout-investors.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/us/politics/argentina-bai... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/09/trump-argentina-bailout-hedge-fund-billionaire-rob-citrone-scott-bessent/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/09/trump-argentina...
- martythemaniak 1y ago
  Talking about the naked, open corruption and bribery is considered gauche in polite society. Executing random Colombian fisherman, OTOH, is perfectly fine.
- jauntywundrkind 1y ago
  The connection is very clear. Amazing Krugman piece. There's still a little bit of a why question to me? What will Citrone or anyone else ever be able to provide back, since they all know this is going to fail, & are using this loan to jack up prices & exit their positions? Maybe there's some more elaborate way this will enrich certain American cronies. Maybe. But I tend to think the answer comes if we look back 80 years. A lot of bad evil people needed a friendly state to run to after WWII ended. Today, beyond just being friends-of-an-(evil-doing)-feather together with some other exploitative public-services-destroying extremists, part of me thinks, maybe perhaps: Argentina is being set up as a new exit, a new place to flee too, when justice comes a calling.
  - rubyn00bie 1y ago
    From the Mother Jones article: > Citrone, the co-founder of Discovery Capital Management, is also a friend and former colleague of Bessent—a fact that has not been previously reported in US media outlets. Citrone, by his own account, helped make Bessent very wealthy. I think it's simply that Bessent can give his buddy (Citrone), who made him (Bessent) "very wealthy," a bailout at zero cost to any of them. $20 billion is really insignificant for the US government, even if a gross waste of tax dollars, and they know there's not going to be a single repercussion. > Argentina is being set up as a new exit, a new place to flee too, when justice comes a calling. I too have been thinking that lately. It wouldn't be ideal for any of them but, from their perspectives, it surely would be better than the alternative.
vkou 1y ago
1. Every dollar that he can spend on whatever he wants without congressional permission is another nail in the legal theory of 'The president is an unaccountable god-king.' 2. What kind of god-king wouldn't reward his friends and allies?
dysoco 1y ago
What follows is just my theory, but I think it's merely a matter of politics and culture. Trump doesn't want Milei's government to fail, he needs successful examples of neoliberal, anti-woke, populist, anti-inmigration governments and Milei is probably his best bet. He's not helping Argentina, he's helping a political ally's party. Betting on the Peso doesn't make sense. It's a lot of money but it's <1% USA's budget. Trump was probably thinking the American media would not pay too much attention to it but apparently it slightly backfired and they did.
- loeg 1y ago
  Why would Trump care about neoliberalism in the slightest? Trump is anti-neoliberal.
  - dysoco 1y ago
    Fair enough, forget I said neoliberalism but the rest of the keywords apply. Evidently they don't care that one is neoliberal and the other is protectionist, I guess they care more about anti-wokeism at the end of the day.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
thehappypm 1y ago
If America saves Argentina, and Argentina becomes a powerful country again, that is a powerful ally we could have for a century.
- anonymars 1y ago
  Have you paid any attention to how the US has been treating its actual existing powerful allies this year? Is Argentina a more valuable ally than, say, Canada?
nradov 1y ago
I'm not convinced this bailout is good policy but you could maybe make a case that it's the least bad option. If the USA doesn't help Argentina then the lender of last resort becomes China. Do we want China to gain more control and influence in the Americas? https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/chinas-overseas-lending https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/chinas-overseas-...
- estearum 1y ago
  The US is not the global or continental lender of last resort. The IMF traditionally holds that role and it appears to be at its limit with regard to Argentina due to serial defaulting, political instability, corruption, and overall lack of credibility. Not compelling at all to say the US just generally has an imperative to buy debt or lend to countries whenever they're least creditable just because China might do it anyway.
  - nradov 1y ago
    Well that was my point. Argentina probably can't borrow any more from the IMF so that leaves the USA or China. China might do it for political reasons even if they lose money so we need to consider whether we're willing to accept the negative geopolitical consequences of that.
    - estearum 1y ago
      If the US had any desire to maintain influence in the Americas (or anywhere else), it wouldn't be calling their leaders drug lords, cutting off foreign aid, engaging in extrajudicial killings off their shores, threatening them with carrier groups, violating previously agreed-upon trade deals, etc. Argentina also would not be getting some special treatment. There are far more strategically important and similarly struggling economies in the Americas and elsewhere that the US could choose to assist and is not. There's just no coherence to this theory. This is rich guys helping out their rich guy buddies using taxpayer dollars.
      - deleted 1y ago
bediger4000 1y ago
There is no benefit for the US as a country. You're forgetting that Trump's first impeachment showed us he runs foreign policy for his own benefit. Trump is almost certainly getting some of that money as a kickback. Speculation is that some of Bessent's buddies are financially exposed to an Argentinian default, and that this keeps them safe from losing money on a sovereign default.
denkmoon 1y ago
Trump views Milei as a buddy, it's that simple. The personal angle is more important than you might think. Plenty of insiders have discussed this aspect of Trump's foreign policy, most recently I watched this podcast with John Bolton talking about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_BB-96D6qg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_BB-96D6qg
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
nine_zeros 1y ago
They used taxpayer money to help the original investors into Argentina who invested a few years ago. It went to wall street.
WhereIsTheTruth 1y ago
I'd guess it's because of its natural resources and "cheap" labor which is only getting cheaper, whether this was done intentionally or not, it seems to go hand in hand with CHIPS Act https://www.csis.org/analysis/south-americas-lithium-triangle-opportunities-biden-administration https://www.csis.org/analysis/south-americas-lithium-triangl...
watwut 1y ago
Billionaire friends of mister Besset need that bailout, cause they invested into Argentina. They need out. That is it.
hulitu 1y ago
Monroe doctrin.
piva00 1y ago
Bessent's friend Rob Citrone is heavily invested in Argentinian bonds, and companies [0]. [0] https://www.bloomberglinea.com/2024/10/18/exclusive-rob-citrone-says-argentina-will-lead-golden-decade-for-latin-america/ https://www.bloomberglinea.com/2024/10/18/exclusive-rob-citr...

jordanb 1y ago

Apparently there are a lot of hedge funds invested in Argentina. Presumably Trump's support will decline once they've covered their positions.

ta9000 1y ago
It really is that simple, corruption.
gdulli 1y ago
Make America's Accredited Investors Great Again

donavanm 1y ago

Its intervening to save a democratic and aligned country from yet-another economic collapse and political crises at their upcoming national elections. Not dissimilar to what the us did for mexico during the peso crisis and revaluation in the 90s. I dont know why “bail out” is the headline term, it’s closer to a “currency backstop” AFAIK. The us is effectively extending hard dollars in exchange for pesos, allowing the argentine govt to not be destroyed in the open currency markets. If this works the peso would retain (or gain) value as the country recovers (economically, due to the ongoing reforms) and the us could feasibly even profit. On the USD and peso backstop its important to note that “dollarization” was a big talking point for milei. But argentina never had anywhere close to enough USD reserves or even USD economic flows to make that at all feasible ever. Like many many billions away from plausible. So there was a background theme of trying to catch them out on that as well since the last elections. Edit: and for context the current run against the peso is effectively because of dumb milei posturing ahead of regional elections, and a strong populist/peronist result. Lots of fear that if its repeated at the upcoming national elections then argentina goes back to kirchner style populism and debt/economic blow up.

coliveira 1y ago
The only people who will benefit from this are the financial elite in Argentina who are selling pesos and getting dollars as quickly as they can, and the hedge funds who invested in Argentina and need a way out. The current government, which is a bad joke, will never win anything else. The economy will continue to go south because this plan doesn't work even in the short term.
- lezojeda 1y ago
  [dead]
- donavanm 1y ago
  I personally think milei the politician is a clown. And many of his statements are just offensive to anyone who can spark two braincells together. I also thought he was going to burn it all down in a blaze of hubris after his election. But its hard to argue with arresting the inflation, gdp, and budget surplus numbers. Im not sure how the economy is “going south.” Generously the policies have arrested the slide? I dont imagine the typical argentine is better off with 200% inflation, 50% unemployment, and a 57% poverty rate. Avoiding that return seems to be quite a benefit for just about everyone?
  - Daishiman 1y ago
    > But its hard to argue with arresting the inflation, gdp, and budget surplus numbers. Im not sure how the economy is “going south.” Generously the policies have arrested the slide? Sure it is. Public education and science funding is at a historic minimum that is destroying tons of long term scientific and educational initiatives. Roads are falling apart in a gigantic country and what’s left of rail is being scrapped for parts and sold to private entities that will let rails decay just like everywhere else where it was privatized. Consumer spending continues to go down, industry is not competitive with this fake exchange rate causing a loss of high quality jobs and forcing everyone to take a second job as an Uber driver. We’ve seen this play out again and again. The government will default, then hyperinflation and social crises until the low prices of everything make the economy competitive again. This has played out again and again with far more competent governments and we keep being right about it.

nashashmi 1y ago

This is the first attempt at aligning the world to a Trump World Order and away from the New world order started by Eisenhower.

clipsy 1y ago

Perhaps some of his administration consider Argentina a back-up in the event that things go poorly for them in America. I've heard of something like that happening before.

estearum 1y ago

Scott Bessent is besties with Rob Citrone who is one of the largest purchasers of Argentine debt. He lobbied Bessent, Bessent said "Sure!" Sometimes it really is that simple. https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/bailing-out-bessents-buddies-bets https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/bailing-out-bessents-budd... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/us/politics/argentina-bailout-investors.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/us/politics/argentina-bai... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/09/trump-argentina-bailout-hedge-fund-billionaire-rob-citrone-scott-bessent/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/09/trump-argentina...

martythemaniak 1y ago
Talking about the naked, open corruption and bribery is considered gauche in polite society. Executing random Colombian fisherman, OTOH, is perfectly fine.
jauntywundrkind 1y ago
The connection is very clear. Amazing Krugman piece. There's still a little bit of a why question to me? What will Citrone or anyone else ever be able to provide back, since they all know this is going to fail, & are using this loan to jack up prices & exit their positions? Maybe there's some more elaborate way this will enrich certain American cronies. Maybe. But I tend to think the answer comes if we look back 80 years. A lot of bad evil people needed a friendly state to run to after WWII ended. Today, beyond just being friends-of-an-(evil-doing)-feather together with some other exploitative public-services-destroying extremists, part of me thinks, maybe perhaps: Argentina is being set up as a new exit, a new place to flee too, when justice comes a calling.
- rubyn00bie 1y ago
  From the Mother Jones article: > Citrone, the co-founder of Discovery Capital Management, is also a friend and former colleague of Bessent—a fact that has not been previously reported in US media outlets. Citrone, by his own account, helped make Bessent very wealthy. I think it's simply that Bessent can give his buddy (Citrone), who made him (Bessent) "very wealthy," a bailout at zero cost to any of them. $20 billion is really insignificant for the US government, even if a gross waste of tax dollars, and they know there's not going to be a single repercussion. > Argentina is being set up as a new exit, a new place to flee too, when justice comes a calling. I too have been thinking that lately. It wouldn't be ideal for any of them but, from their perspectives, it surely would be better than the alternative.

vkou 1y ago

1. Every dollar that he can spend on whatever he wants without congressional permission is another nail in the legal theory of 'The president is an unaccountable god-king.' 2. What kind of god-king wouldn't reward his friends and allies?

dysoco 1y ago

What follows is just my theory, but I think it's merely a matter of politics and culture. Trump doesn't want Milei's government to fail, he needs successful examples of neoliberal, anti-woke, populist, anti-inmigration governments and Milei is probably his best bet. He's not helping Argentina, he's helping a political ally's party. Betting on the Peso doesn't make sense. It's a lot of money but it's <1% USA's budget. Trump was probably thinking the American media would not pay too much attention to it but apparently it slightly backfired and they did.

loeg 1y ago
Why would Trump care about neoliberalism in the slightest? Trump is anti-neoliberal.
- dysoco 1y ago
  Fair enough, forget I said neoliberalism but the rest of the keywords apply. Evidently they don't care that one is neoliberal and the other is protectionist, I guess they care more about anti-wokeism at the end of the day.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

thehappypm 1y ago

If America saves Argentina, and Argentina becomes a powerful country again, that is a powerful ally we could have for a century.

anonymars 1y ago
Have you paid any attention to how the US has been treating its actual existing powerful allies this year? Is Argentina a more valuable ally than, say, Canada?

nradov 1y ago

I'm not convinced this bailout is good policy but you could maybe make a case that it's the least bad option. If the USA doesn't help Argentina then the lender of last resort becomes China. Do we want China to gain more control and influence in the Americas? https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/chinas-overseas-lending https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/chinas-overseas-...

estearum 1y ago
The US is not the global or continental lender of last resort. The IMF traditionally holds that role and it appears to be at its limit with regard to Argentina due to serial defaulting, political instability, corruption, and overall lack of credibility. Not compelling at all to say the US just generally has an imperative to buy debt or lend to countries whenever they're least creditable just because China might do it anyway.
- nradov 1y ago
  Well that was my point. Argentina probably can't borrow any more from the IMF so that leaves the USA or China. China might do it for political reasons even if they lose money so we need to consider whether we're willing to accept the negative geopolitical consequences of that.
  - estearum 1y ago
    If the US had any desire to maintain influence in the Americas (or anywhere else), it wouldn't be calling their leaders drug lords, cutting off foreign aid, engaging in extrajudicial killings off their shores, threatening them with carrier groups, violating previously agreed-upon trade deals, etc. Argentina also would not be getting some special treatment. There are far more strategically important and similarly struggling economies in the Americas and elsewhere that the US could choose to assist and is not. There's just no coherence to this theory. This is rich guys helping out their rich guy buddies using taxpayer dollars.
    - deleted 1y ago

bediger4000 1y ago

There is no benefit for the US as a country. You're forgetting that Trump's first impeachment showed us he runs foreign policy for his own benefit. Trump is almost certainly getting some of that money as a kickback. Speculation is that some of Bessent's buddies are financially exposed to an Argentinian default, and that this keeps them safe from losing money on a sovereign default.

denkmoon 1y ago

Trump views Milei as a buddy, it's that simple. The personal angle is more important than you might think. Plenty of insiders have discussed this aspect of Trump's foreign policy, most recently I watched this podcast with John Bolton talking about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_BB-96D6qg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_BB-96D6qg

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

nine_zeros 1y ago

They used taxpayer money to help the original investors into Argentina who invested a few years ago. It went to wall street.

WhereIsTheTruth 1y ago

I'd guess it's because of its natural resources and "cheap" labor which is only getting cheaper, whether this was done intentionally or not, it seems to go hand in hand with CHIPS Act https://www.csis.org/analysis/south-americas-lithium-triangle-opportunities-biden-administration https://www.csis.org/analysis/south-americas-lithium-triangl...

watwut 1y ago

Billionaire friends of mister Besset need that bailout, cause they invested into Argentina. They need out. That is it.

hulitu 1y ago

Monroe doctrin.

piva00 1y ago

Bessent's friend Rob Citrone is heavily invested in Argentinian bonds, and companies [0]. [0] https://www.bloomberglinea.com/2024/10/18/exclusive-rob-citrone-says-argentina-will-lead-golden-decade-for-latin-america/ https://www.bloomberglinea.com/2024/10/18/exclusive-rob-citr...