9 ms·
Electricity can heal wounds three times as fast (2023)
- mgh2 1y agohttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3776323/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3776323/
- Bender 1y agoWill there be a ELI5 how-to for DIY'ers? Or perhaps a non-rx device sold at Walmart and Amazon for DIY'ers.
- rpmisms 1y agoI can't read, so I will be using a cattle prod on my broken arm
- Eupolemos 1y agoThat sounds like some obscure Fallout idiot savant member-berry :D
- Bender 1y agoI have both a cattle prod and a TENS-7000. I assume there may be different voltages and pps that work best on different wounds and there must be a database that would be used to track results for everyone that self experiments. One study only applies to its small set of masochists. I would like to see the numbers evolve over time from more masochists so we can share each others pain, pleasure and recovery. Also the best places to stick it and results of different molecules to work in conjunction with the TazeMeBro-20000. e.g. Terrasil3X vs Max strength Desitin vs other off-label options and other supplements. Diabetics seem to prefer Terrasil3X. The step-by-step guide should have videos of unclothed people configuring and applying the TENS to every possible wound location.
- rpmisms 1y agoThis is exactly my kind of unhinged. Gonna try this.
- observationist 1y agospoken[loudly and slowly, since they can't read] Open science citizen research is awe inspiring. Thanks for contributing to humanity's progress, you are a true hero!
- RajT88 1y agoCattle prods are expensive. Use a fireplace lighter. Much lower project cost.
- m463 1y agocan't you just use a lightsocket?
- bregma 1y agoInstructions unclear: cattle prod is now going to require an embarrassing visit to emerg to remove.
- carlosjobim 1y agoGet an electric blanket and sleep cozy and warm on cold nights, while the electromagnetic field revigorates your body and your soul. You also save on your heating bill.
- makeitdouble 1y agoYou could probably repurpose an electric face massager ?
- kipchak 1y agoAnecdotally trying a nuface device on sore muscles a couple of times there seems to be some sort of positive effect.
- canadiantim 1y agoFind a device capable of Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS) or just type TENS into amazon
- greenavocado 1y agoShoplift, get caught, resist, get tasered. Free electrotherapy that comes with free room and board too.
- AngryData 1y agoJail isn't free in the US, they make you pay money when you are released or face more jail time and more debt.
- greenavocado 1y agoNo they do not make you pay for your stay. You may have to pay the fine for the crime but it's not the same as paying for your stay.
- IAmBroom 1y agoYou're thinking of a 19th-century British practice. Debtor's prison is forbidden in the US Constitution.
- AngryData 1y agoWhat do you think happens when people refuse to pay fines, jail fees, and court costs? Or child support, wage garnishments, or back taxes? They certainly don't just send you on your merry way. In some jurisdictions they have to have a court or judge look at someones ability to pay instead of automatically jailing them for failure to pay fines, but whether they are arrested or not as a result of that is completely at the judge's personal discretion, and many judges are selected specifically because they are hardasses that earns the local court system/county money.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- AaronAPU 1y agoIt seems odd that cells wouldn’t naturally move in the right directions with some purpose. Which makes me wonder if their purpose is just not understood and these faster healing wounds might have some yet unknown downside.
- altruios 1y agoMaybe a randomized walk is the optimal healing algorithm barring any directive force? A local maximum. It can use the endocrine signaling though... and other directive signaling. So maybe those wear with time? Maybe not just any electric signal will do, maybe frequency and amplitude are a factor as well. A 'healing signal'. Curious research. We'll see what becomes of it.
- aeternum 1y agoThere is evidence from flat worms that electric fields is how cells naturally move in the right directions with purpose. However they produce the fields chemically via ion gradients. There's a very cool researcher who used this method to create flatworms with heads (or tails) on both sides. https://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(17)30427-7 https://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(17)30427-7 IMO the issue is with unhealthy people, things like poor circulation reduces the body's ability to produce the natural ion gradients and thus why the external electric field helps.
- mnadkvlb 1y agoMichael Levin's labs, where this research is going on, showed organ (eg. eyes) regeneration etc. I really hope these guys are going in right direction regarding regeneration based on electric fields as a proxy for gene expressions.
- gooseyard 1y agoI learned of Michael Levin via Sally Adee's "We Are Electric", one of the more interesting pop-sci titles I've read in a while, the section on Levin's lab was definitely the highlight.
- spidersouris 1y ago> The project was recently granted new funding so the research can get to market and benefit patients. How is it now? Has this been extended to real use outside of research?
- UI_at_80x24 1y agoI wouldn't be surprised if there isn't significant cross-over with this[0] observation of plant-roots growing faster when exposed to low-voltage electricity. [0]https://www.nature.com/articles/d44151-023-00162-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/d44151-023-00162-5
- wrs 1y agoAnd electric bone healing stimulation. [0] [0] https://advanced.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/advs.202404190 https://advanced.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/advs.20...
- amelius 1y agoIn other news: > EPFL researchers have demonstrated the first pill-sized bioprinter that can be swallowed and guided within the gastrointestinal tract, where it directly deposits bio-ink over damaged tissues to support repair. https://actu.epfl.ch/news/a-pill-that-prints-2/ https://actu.epfl.ch/news/a-pill-that-prints-2/
- georgeburdell 1y ago20 years ago when I was an undergrad I was studying the effect of electric fields on the chemical vapor deposition growth of (material du jour). Electricity turned what was a natural, random process, into one where we could direct the growth this way and that way. We didn't measure whether the growth rate was enhanced, but it's not surprising to me that a similar effect might show up all over the place to help speed along a natural process, because at the boundary, progressive chemical reactions isn't like stacking legos, it's like adding some, then taking a few away, then adding some more, and so on.
- makeitdouble 1y agoYes. The healing nature of electricity was a well known effect [0], what this study brings to the table is more accuracy on how fast and how much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcurrent_electrical_neuromuscular_stimulator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcurrent_electrical_neurom...
- glial 1y agoSee also: "The Body Electric: Electromagnetism And The Foundation Of Life" https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-body-electric-robert-beckergary-selden?variant=32117253832738 https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-body-electric-rob...
- alex1138 1y agoSo Frankenstein was right?
- burnt-resistor 1y agoClose, it was Dr. Frank-N-Furter.
- tcherasaro 1y agoI can supply my own anecdata here. I recently went through 6 weeks of PT for injured tendons / tendinitis in my arms with 0 results. The therapist suggested we try dry needling + electric stimulation for another 6 weeks. So we did that and I recovered 90% in the second 6 weeks of therapy. There were side effects but they were minimal and completely gone now. It looked a little like this except on my arms: https://youtube.com/shorts/pTEPMgDdy2A?si=MSx7YnmUbApsigWe https://youtube.com/shorts/pTEPMgDdy2A?si=MSx7YnmUbApsigWe I was skeptical but sold on the benefits and relieved to have an effective therapy option to fall back on when it happens again as it does every couple years. Unfortunately, my insurance doesn’t pay for it.
- simmerup 1y agoWHat were the side effects?
- glitchc 1y agoI've had electro-acupuncture to as part of my recovery from shoulder surgery. One possible side-effect is that nerves can occasionally misfire or auto-fire. It could manifest itself as a tick or a twitch, where a specific muscle fires on its own without any stimulus (or the wrong stimulus). It goes away with extra physical training. I guess it is to be expected as the needle does cause some minor physical damage on insertion and removal.
- froobius 1y agoWithout a twin with the exact same injury and no intervention, to compare with, we don't know from this whether it was just the six extra weeks of healing that made the difference.
- fluoridation 1y agoI mean, GP did open up by saying it was an anecdote, not that it was evidence that electrotherapy works.
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- wigglefruit 1y agoso they kind of “cattle prodded” the cells into moving the right way
- ninalanyon 1y agoI'm all in favour of extra therapeutic options. But what jumped out at me was that 1 in 11 people worldwide have some form of diabetes. This is surely a relatively new state of affairs so wouldn't it be a rather good idea to prevent it at source so to say rather than cope with the negative effects?
- adastra22 1y agoWhat do you suggest? Free access to Ozempic? The real underlying reason for this is quite simple: Haber-Bosch enables us to have abundant and cheap food for everyone, and our evolutionary history hasn't wired us up to respond appropriately to that.
- CGMthrowaway 1y ago>Free access to Ozempic? How does that "prevent it at source"? I was going to say "free access to meat and eggs" and then I read the rest of your comment. You are blaming metabolic dysfunction on the people setting low prices for food, did I read that right?
- quickthrowman 1y agoThere’s not a surplus of meat and eggs anywhere. There are vast surpluses of all grains due to the Haber-Bosch process and the Green Revolution, plus national security concerns. Therefore, grains are cheap, everything is pumped full of salt and sugar, and people eat overeat. Also, famines were semi-regular occurrences across the world until very recently. Your idea would work if meat and eggs took fewer resources to produce, but reality does not work like that.
- JDEW 1y ago> Therefore, grains are cheap and people eat too much of them. People only overeat themselves into obesity once you process those carbs into high fructose corn syrup etc. Seems like a very different problem.
- rurban 1y agoNot just skin, muscles also. It's standard therapy for some years already for partially torn muscles. As with my shoulder right now. Going to EMS therapy twice a week.
- tiku 1y agoSo we just use those muscle stimulator things on battery on wounds?
- davzie 1y agoThis seems to run counter to the anecdotal evidence that some say grounding has on healing. I assume grounding is discharging the body (if to be believed) whilst this article would have us believe we should add charge. I don’t have a dog in the race, it’s just interesting.
- estimator7292 1y agoThat's not how any of this works
- hallucinate 1y agoHow does it work?
- owenversteeg 1y agoThe GGP comment is sort of all over the place, but I will try my best (there will be a few simplifications.) Electric charge of anything is both absolute and relative, but we mostly discuss it in a relative sense. In this case, you could apply (say) 600 mV potential across a 3mm wound, with (say) one electrode on the left and one on the right. Let's say you have a battery taped to your arm with wires leading to the wound (DO NOT try this at home! Playing around with electricity and open wounds is generally insane and could be deadly in nonintuitive ways!) - the relative potential of your body, relative to the surroundings, does not change. The left _of the wound_ is at +600 mV relative to the right, and the right -600 mV to the left, but your body's overall potential relative to your surroundings is unchanged, because again, everything is relative. In the sense of absolute electric charge (of the body and the wound) essentially nothing changes. The electric current of the wound stimulation is a _flow_ of electrons, but there is no net movement. "Grounding" (see "energy medicine", "earthing" etc) is mostly based around the sales of overpriced "healing" products that plug into the wall. Like many conspiracies there is a kernel of truth there - there _is_ actually a real, measurable difference (in potential, current flow, and how electric fields behave in your body, among other things) when you are electrically grounded vs. insulated from the ground - but the mechanisms and effects are a bit complex to explain in a comment. For more on the subject you might want to read on capacitive coupling.
- financetechbro 1y agoAn interesting lecture that’s is tangentially related: https://youtu.be/iHVGe--xDDA?si=Rl4xRqNzxiuY0Zom https://youtu.be/iHVGe--xDDA?si=Rl4xRqNzxiuY0Zom
- cootsnuck 1y agoI knew before clicking it was going to be Michael Levin. His lab is doing really interesting work.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- simmanian 1y agoThe article and the comments remind me of Michael Levin's work on bioelectricity. 20 min ted talk - https://youtu.be/XheAMrS8Q1c https://youtu.be/XheAMrS8Q1c 3 hr lex fridman episode - https://youtu.be/p3lsYlod5OU https://youtu.be/p3lsYlod5OU
- filoeleven 1y agoHis lab's work is the most interesting I've come across in a long while. In the recent interview I linked, he says they have another paper coming out soon with even more wild stuff. He gets more into his ideas about why his methods work in the podcast as well. It's so cool to be tuned in to a candidate for the most impactful bio research of the next 20 years. https://youtu.be/imTnPhE20YQ?si=oreeVM6vQyWpN9gV https://youtu.be/imTnPhE20YQ?si=oreeVM6vQyWpN9gV
- SilentM68 1y agoThat sounds interesting. We keep on hearing stories in the news of many new discoveries being made every day. I wonder if the day will come when there exists an "affordable" technology to treat/correct malformed feet, fingers, toes, hands, by simply instructing the body's DNA to self-correct without the need for invasive surgery.
- Zenst 1y agoI see mention of the voltage of 200 mV/mm, though no mention if AC or DC, presume it is DC. I have seen a few articles over the years on stimulating wound healing and did a little digging and found it goes back further than I appreciated: 1843: Carlo Matteucci (Italy) observes that wounded tissue generates a steady current — the first evidence of endogenous “healing current.” Modern experimental era (1950s–1980s) 1950s–1960s: F. W. Smith and others at the Royal Free Hospital (London) and USSR researchers start applying DC microcurrents to chronic ulcers. 1960s–1970s: Robert O. Becker (NYU, later VA Medical Center) systematically studies wound and bone healing with DC and pulsed currents — showing accelerated healing and even partial limb regeneration in amphibians. 1972: Becker and Murray publish seminal paper: “Low intensity direct current stimulation of bone growth and wound healing.” Late 1970s–1980s: Clinical trials on pressure ulcers and diabetic wounds using microamp DC show improved epithelialization. Clinical device development (1990s–present) 1990s: FDA approvals for electrical bone-growth stimulators, later expanded to soft-tissue wound dressings. 2000s: Research into pulsed DC, AC, and capacitive coupling grows; low-frequency (1–200 Hz) electrotherapy devices enter wound-care practice. 2010s–2020s: Rise of microfluidic and bioelectronic dressings (like the Chalmers study, 2023), nanogenerators, and self-powered wound patches — merging electronics and biology. Looking into the AC/DC aspects: DC = best for directional healing and wound closure. AC = best for tissue conditioning, circulation, and long-term comfort. Combination or cycling gives the fastest and safest overall healing, especially for chronic or deep wounds. Also, prevent polarisation irritation over prolonged usage. Certainly does feel like a technology that has been sleeping in the wind, and a future first aid tool. Of note, electronically, such a device could also aid in cleaning the wound by killing bacteria, which may be one reason that healing is improved.
- 8bitsrule 1y agoThe study's title is “Bioelectronic microfluidic wound healing: a platform for investigating direct current stimulation of injured cell collectives”
- OhioMan2943 1y agoJust confirming what we all already know- we are all secretly robots.
- owenversteeg 1y agoAnecdata, but putting it out there because HN comments have solved many medical problems of mine that doctors couldn't: I had a wound that wouldn't close and the thing that eventually got it to close was topical collagen powder - packed directly into the wound. This is something that the literature is quite positive on, but large Western hospitals mostly don't do for some reason. On oral collagen, the literature seems a bit more mixed but still generally positive. Collagen is something that used to make up a much larger part of our diet, so at the very least I don't think there's much risk in trying - and perhaps there are other benefits.
- zipy124 1y agoI won't comment on topical collagen as there is indeed reasons why it may work but we can be pretty sure oral supplementation is unnecessary, since it is just a protein, so if you get sufficient protein intakes (of the respective amino acids) then your body will just make it. Your body when digesting collagen (and other proteins) in almost all cases will just convert it into it's amino acids anyway. The supplement industry is just EXTREMRLY profitable and so distorts modern media and occasionally science.
- pcthrowaway 1y ago> so if you get sufficient protein intakes (of the respective amino acids) then your body will just make it. I don't think everyone produces amino acids as efficiently as everyone else. For some people, perhaps supplementation is beneficial.
- IAmBroom 1y agoThat's an unscientific opinion. Any data?
- theoreticalmal 1y agoIs it any more or less unscientific than the parent comment?