6 ms·

Seems organised crime is taking advantage of less-policed (or lawless) regions in Cambodia and Burma. The spectre of a similar scam has resulted in lower Chine

by nomilk 1y ago

Seems organised crime is taking advantage of less-policed (or lawless) regions in Cambodia and Burma. The spectre of a similar scam has resulted in lower Chinese tourism to Thailand. Basically Chinese (among other nationalities) tourists were led from the airport by fake immigration staff, put into cars and driven to Burma and forced to work 18 hour days in scam call centers. A chilling but extremely worthwhile read. https://www.reuters.com/graphics/SOUTHEASTASIA-SCAMS/mypmxwdwwvr/ https://www.reuters.com/graphics/SOUTHEASTASIA-SCAMS/mypmxwd...

timtom123 1y ago
Spent significant time in Vietnam & Cambodia & Thailand. Cambodia is a sad country full of desperate people. "less-policed" is the entire country. ~50 years since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide. Vietnam was by far my favorite of the three and the contrast between the three countries is stark.
- OutOfHere 1y ago
  How does Laos compare?
  - timtom123 1y ago
    Sorry, I can't say. I always stayed near the water for work as a dive master or ESL teacher, so I never made it to Laos.
- parthdesai 1y ago
  > Spent significant time in Vietnam & Cambodia & Thailand. Cambodia is a sad country full of desperate people. Probably should also include which country is responsible for the current condition of the country. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1175241-once-you-ve-been-to-cambodia-you-ll-never-stop-wanting-to https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1175241-once-you-ve-been-to...
  - ctxc 1y ago
    Content: "Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević." I had to read up, and...my goodness. Apparently the US bombed a neutral Cambodia secretly to incite Vietnam's neighboring countries and put pressure on them, killing 30k to 150k civilians. This caused unrest, and gave way to Khmer Rouge to sieze power, using "defense against the US" as propoganda.
    - unyttigfjelltol 1y ago
      Pol Pot probably was more proximally at fault.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
      - cogman10 1y ago
        It's a giant mess. I don't think Pot would have gained the support/power that he did without the US indiscriminate bombing. Much like the creation of ISIS and the strengthening of the Taliban in Afghanistan, it turns out people don't like the people dropping bombs on them. They'll turn to whoever is fighting the bombers. The US involvement in Vietnam would have already been over before the uprising of Pot had Nixon and Kissinger not skuttled peace talks to help Nixon get elected.
        unyttigfjelltol 1y ago
        Iraq, for example, didn’t turn into Cambodia and conditions pre-ISIS in Syria more directly fostered its creation. See a discussion of “proximate cause.”[1] [1] https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-difference-between-direct-and-proximate-cause/ https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-difference-between-dire...
- bugbuddy 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    My SO's family is from the portion of Gia Lai neighboring Cambodia. Gia Lai itself is fairly poor, but ime the neighboring half of Cambodia is even poorer and desperate. It's the same story in the Mekong Delta as well (having had to go to extended family weddings in rural An Giang). And calling out the relative lawlessness in Cambodia is not racism in any shape or form. Based on your comment history, it seems you are reflexively defensive about Cambodia to a startling degree. Cambodia was dealt a bad hand, but so was Vietnam and Laos as well, yet neither have the same degree of institutionalized criminality that you see in Cambodia. The problem at the end of the day lies with the country's leadership, and a quasi-reformed Khmer Rouge member like Hun Sen just isn't the right leader to help Cambodia develop out of the LDC category. Heck, Bangladesh (historically a peer of Cambodia) was also formed due to a tumultuous history and severe instability in the 1970s-90s, but concentrated on state capacity development - something which Cambodia's leadership thumbed their nose at in the 2010s.
    - bugbuddy 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - alephnerd 1y ago
        > How do you know they are “desperate” Based on the fact that Cambodian day laborers come to work as migrant workers in a region that Vietnamese (Kinh or Jarai) try to leave if they can. HDI metrics themselves also represents that fact. Gia Lai - one of the poorest provinces in VN - has a higher Human Development Index (HDI) than all of Cambodia. > Given the recent developments in Bangladesh Yet the average Bangladeshi earns more money, is significantly more educated, and has a longer life expectancy than the average Cambodian. Cambodia's HDI remains well below it's LDC peers across Asia, and that divergence only really began in the 2010s. > Based on your biased opinion given your relative partiality toward Vietnamese... I have been fairly open on HN about my criticisms about Vietnam, such as the authoritarian regression under To Lam along with VN's increased hallmarks of falling into a real estate and export economy induced middle income trap > Cambodia has cooperated with the foreign government consistently South Korea has literally banned Korean nationals from travelling to vast portions of Cambodia today and is considering cancelling aid projects because of non-cooperation from the Cambodian government. > I see no such thing In English, "you" is often used in the 3rd person as well, especially when communicating on a forum where conversations and readers are not only the OP ------------- There is no reason why Cambodia can't pull off a similar developmental story like Vietnam or Bangladesh, yet Cambodian leadership in the 2010s and today has dropped the ball because any attempt at making Cambodia a more open economy would undermine rent seeking activities.
- dunkvg 1y ago
  Yes they are not on the same level, Thailand used to be far ahead but has stagnated and Vietnam has caught up, Cambodia is so far behind you cannot imagine it will ever catch up with its neighboring countries. They still use dollars as currency because the local currency is so unstable
sangel21 1y ago
Were? they still are. It's not even a small amount there are thousands of people at these centers.
- jjangkke 1y ago
  also this isn't a "lawless" region that OP is talking about they are in city centers in Cambodia and the Cambodian police and government officials are all getting paid off to let them operate freely. it really is disgusting to see this level of corruption and that its going to have long term economic impact on Cambodia and Cambodians abroad.
  - theragra 1y ago
    Makes you think that idea of spreading democracy is not just a cover for power struggles, but something really important
    - fyolnish 1y ago
      Makes you wonder if not blowing the country to bits and helping the Khmer Rouge gain power would have been better for its development
    - Throaway152 1y ago
      Cambodia is not really a democratic country. It still an Autocracy.
- charlieyu1 1y ago
  And for some reasons there are Americans thinking they were wrong going to Vietnam
- refurb 1y ago
  Indeed. I spent a while in Vietnam and it was a regular occurrence of news stories about locals being rescued from all sorts of situation, not just scam centers - casinos, massage parlors. The stories ranged from video of people running away from these places to escape, to Vietnamese police bribing people back to Vietnam who had been lured with the promise of a good job. Cambodia really is the Wild West of this stuff.
EvanAnderson 1y ago
I got a lot less snarky in my responses to scam text messages when I learned about the forced labor aspect. I just block the sender and go on, versus trying to bait them and waste their time.
- stuffn 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - EvanAnderson 1y ago
    I don't want somebody being held against their will and forced to do a "job" to be beaten because I wanted to fuck with a scammer.
  - otterley 1y ago
    The freer you are, the easier it is to stand on principle. When your life or your freedom is at stake, you will do things that you never thought possible. We are genetically programmed to preserve our own lives, as well as those of our loved ones, at just about any cost.
  - jasomill 1y ago
    The 24 Nuremburg defendents all held high level leadership positions and were hardly representative of the rank and file "just doing their jobs".
  - lawlessone 1y ago
    >I personally have no sympathy for these people whether or not they're victims. You get a choice in life to stand on your morals or allow them to be eroded. If you choose to do something you know is wrong then you are no better than any other person who knowingly commits such acts. That's nice, but if someone points a weapon at me and tells me to rob people over the phone i'll probably do it.
    - tomjakubowski 1y ago
      In many US jurisdictions you'd likely be able to argue a duress defense in this case. https://www.egattorneys.com/duress-defense https://www.egattorneys.com/duress-defense
malux85 1y ago
This is horrendous
3abiton 1y ago
15B lost, but it gave us good memes. Still, unbelievable amount.
dunkvg 1y ago
As a Thai person I want to clarify its not Thai people doing this, it's Chinese people who have setup scam call centers near the golden triangle (where law enforcement is non-existent, it is a drug trafficking area) who are running the show, and they exclusively target only Chinese people.
thenthenthen 1y ago
Recent bust of a crime family complete with army in Myanmar, possibly related? https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31797410 https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31797410 (sorry Chinese)

by nomilk 1y ago

timtom123 1y ago

Spent significant time in Vietnam & Cambodia & Thailand. Cambodia is a sad country full of desperate people. "less-policed" is the entire country. ~50 years since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide. Vietnam was by far my favorite of the three and the contrast between the three countries is stark.

OutOfHere 1y ago
How does Laos compare?
- timtom123 1y ago
  Sorry, I can't say. I always stayed near the water for work as a dive master or ESL teacher, so I never made it to Laos.
parthdesai 1y ago
> Spent significant time in Vietnam & Cambodia & Thailand. Cambodia is a sad country full of desperate people. Probably should also include which country is responsible for the current condition of the country. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1175241-once-you-ve-been-to-cambodia-you-ll-never-stop-wanting-to https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1175241-once-you-ve-been-to...
- ctxc 1y ago
  Content: "Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević." I had to read up, and...my goodness. Apparently the US bombed a neutral Cambodia secretly to incite Vietnam's neighboring countries and put pressure on them, killing 30k to 150k civilians. This caused unrest, and gave way to Khmer Rouge to sieze power, using "defense against the US" as propoganda.
  - unyttigfjelltol 1y ago
    Pol Pot probably was more proximally at fault.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
    - cogman10 1y ago
      It's a giant mess. I don't think Pot would have gained the support/power that he did without the US indiscriminate bombing. Much like the creation of ISIS and the strengthening of the Taliban in Afghanistan, it turns out people don't like the people dropping bombs on them. They'll turn to whoever is fighting the bombers. The US involvement in Vietnam would have already been over before the uprising of Pot had Nixon and Kissinger not skuttled peace talks to help Nixon get elected.
      - unyttigfjelltol 1y ago
        Iraq, for example, didn’t turn into Cambodia and conditions pre-ISIS in Syria more directly fostered its creation. See a discussion of “proximate cause.”[1] [1] https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-difference-between-direct-and-proximate-cause/ https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-difference-between-dire...
bugbuddy 1y ago
[flagged]
- alephnerd 1y ago
  My SO's family is from the portion of Gia Lai neighboring Cambodia. Gia Lai itself is fairly poor, but ime the neighboring half of Cambodia is even poorer and desperate. It's the same story in the Mekong Delta as well (having had to go to extended family weddings in rural An Giang). And calling out the relative lawlessness in Cambodia is not racism in any shape or form. Based on your comment history, it seems you are reflexively defensive about Cambodia to a startling degree. Cambodia was dealt a bad hand, but so was Vietnam and Laos as well, yet neither have the same degree of institutionalized criminality that you see in Cambodia. The problem at the end of the day lies with the country's leadership, and a quasi-reformed Khmer Rouge member like Hun Sen just isn't the right leader to help Cambodia develop out of the LDC category. Heck, Bangladesh (historically a peer of Cambodia) was also formed due to a tumultuous history and severe instability in the 1970s-90s, but concentrated on state capacity development - something which Cambodia's leadership thumbed their nose at in the 2010s.
  - bugbuddy 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      > How do you know they are “desperate” Based on the fact that Cambodian day laborers come to work as migrant workers in a region that Vietnamese (Kinh or Jarai) try to leave if they can. HDI metrics themselves also represents that fact. Gia Lai - one of the poorest provinces in VN - has a higher Human Development Index (HDI) than all of Cambodia. > Given the recent developments in Bangladesh Yet the average Bangladeshi earns more money, is significantly more educated, and has a longer life expectancy than the average Cambodian. Cambodia's HDI remains well below it's LDC peers across Asia, and that divergence only really began in the 2010s. > Based on your biased opinion given your relative partiality toward Vietnamese... I have been fairly open on HN about my criticisms about Vietnam, such as the authoritarian regression under To Lam along with VN's increased hallmarks of falling into a real estate and export economy induced middle income trap > Cambodia has cooperated with the foreign government consistently South Korea has literally banned Korean nationals from travelling to vast portions of Cambodia today and is considering cancelling aid projects because of non-cooperation from the Cambodian government. > I see no such thing In English, "you" is often used in the 3rd person as well, especially when communicating on a forum where conversations and readers are not only the OP ------------- There is no reason why Cambodia can't pull off a similar developmental story like Vietnam or Bangladesh, yet Cambodian leadership in the 2010s and today has dropped the ball because any attempt at making Cambodia a more open economy would undermine rent seeking activities.
dunkvg 1y ago
Yes they are not on the same level, Thailand used to be far ahead but has stagnated and Vietnam has caught up, Cambodia is so far behind you cannot imagine it will ever catch up with its neighboring countries. They still use dollars as currency because the local currency is so unstable

sangel21 1y ago

Were? they still are. It's not even a small amount there are thousands of people at these centers.

jjangkke 1y ago
also this isn't a "lawless" region that OP is talking about they are in city centers in Cambodia and the Cambodian police and government officials are all getting paid off to let them operate freely. it really is disgusting to see this level of corruption and that its going to have long term economic impact on Cambodia and Cambodians abroad.
- theragra 1y ago
  Makes you think that idea of spreading democracy is not just a cover for power struggles, but something really important
  - fyolnish 1y ago
    Makes you wonder if not blowing the country to bits and helping the Khmer Rouge gain power would have been better for its development
  - Throaway152 1y ago
    Cambodia is not really a democratic country. It still an Autocracy.
charlieyu1 1y ago
And for some reasons there are Americans thinking they were wrong going to Vietnam
refurb 1y ago
Indeed. I spent a while in Vietnam and it was a regular occurrence of news stories about locals being rescued from all sorts of situation, not just scam centers - casinos, massage parlors. The stories ranged from video of people running away from these places to escape, to Vietnamese police bribing people back to Vietnam who had been lured with the promise of a good job. Cambodia really is the Wild West of this stuff.

EvanAnderson 1y ago

I got a lot less snarky in my responses to scam text messages when I learned about the forced labor aspect. I just block the sender and go on, versus trying to bait them and waste their time.

stuffn 1y ago
[flagged]
- EvanAnderson 1y ago
  I don't want somebody being held against their will and forced to do a "job" to be beaten because I wanted to fuck with a scammer.
- otterley 1y ago
  The freer you are, the easier it is to stand on principle. When your life or your freedom is at stake, you will do things that you never thought possible. We are genetically programmed to preserve our own lives, as well as those of our loved ones, at just about any cost.
- jasomill 1y ago
  The 24 Nuremburg defendents all held high level leadership positions and were hardly representative of the rank and file "just doing their jobs".
- lawlessone 1y ago
  >I personally have no sympathy for these people whether or not they're victims. You get a choice in life to stand on your morals or allow them to be eroded. If you choose to do something you know is wrong then you are no better than any other person who knowingly commits such acts. That's nice, but if someone points a weapon at me and tells me to rob people over the phone i'll probably do it.
  - tomjakubowski 1y ago
    In many US jurisdictions you'd likely be able to argue a duress defense in this case. https://www.egattorneys.com/duress-defense https://www.egattorneys.com/duress-defense

malux85 1y ago

This is horrendous

3abiton 1y ago

15B lost, but it gave us good memes. Still, unbelievable amount.

dunkvg 1y ago

As a Thai person I want to clarify its not Thai people doing this, it's Chinese people who have setup scam call centers near the golden triangle (where law enforcement is non-existent, it is a drug trafficking area) who are running the show, and they exclusively target only Chinese people.

thenthenthen 1y ago

Recent bust of a crime family complete with army in Myanmar, possibly related? https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31797410 https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31797410 (sorry Chinese)