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I tought that the National Post was exaggerating the severity in their crusade against the Liberal like they frequently do. So I when to read the law and it's a
by nick__m 1y ago
I tought that the National Post was exaggerating the severity in their crusade against the Liberal like they frequently do. So I when to read the law and it's as bad as they say: https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/C-8/first-reading https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/C-8/first-re...
...
Factor
Before making the order, the Governor in Council must consider
(a) its operational impact on the affected telecommunications service providers;
(b) its financial impact on the affected telecommunications service providers;
(c) its effect on the provision of telecommunications services in Canada; and
(d) any other factor that the Governor in Council considers relevant.
...
No compensation
(8) No one is entitled to any compensation from His Majesty in right of Canada for any financial losses resulting from the making of an order under subsection (1).
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- gpm 1y ago[flagged]
- nick__m 1y agoI cited this because they are accountable only to the telecommunications cartel. (in Canada telecommunications services are a the facto cartel) The effects of the banishment on the target are not taken into account and there is no compensation possible if this power is wrongly used. That's why I cited this excerpt.
- dustbunny 1y agoNational post is a respectable publication more akin to the Wall Street Journal. Canadian Breitbart is probably more like rebel news or epoch times.
- gpm 1y agoAt best you could compare them to fox news, but they don't compare favourably even to that. They are admittedly maybe not quite as bad as Breitbart but it's close enough in my opinion.
- joshlemer 1y agoThat's a huge exaggeration. National Post is absolutely not more unhinged than Fox News.
- dustbunny 1y agoWhat is a more respected conservative publication in Canada?
- gpm 1y agoThe globe falls on the conservative side of things. The star is currently in a weird middle ground where it was somewhat left but it is being moved somewhat right by its new owners. CBC is reasonably neutral. Highly partisan news is generally not respected for good reason though.
- canadiantim 1y agoThe globe used to fall on the conservative side of things, now honestly the Toronto star is more to the right than the globe. Both got bought by new owners in the last decade and it shows.
- acoard 1y agoThere is none, it's the most respected/widely read conservative publication. Calling Rebel News the Breitbart equivalent is more fair. CBC is definitely left wing[1], with a bias towards the liberal party (centre-left). Globe and Mail is centrist[0]. https://ground.news/interest/the-globe-and-mail https://ground.news/interest/the-globe-and-mail https://ground.news/interest/cbc-news https://ground.news/interest/cbc-news
- 1y ago
- txrx0000 1y agonick__m quoted the wrong section, but there's an identical Factors section 15.2(6) that applies to 15.2(2)(d). There's also a non-disclosure clause. The headline is true. Order (2) If the Minister believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary to do so to secure the Canadian telecommunications system against any threat, including that of interference, manipulation, disruption or degradation, the Minister may, by order, ... (d) impose conditions on a telecommunications service provider’s provision of services to a specified person, including a telecommunications service provider; ... Non-disclosure (5) An order made under subsection (1) or (2) may also include a provision prohibiting the disclosure of its existence, or some or all of its contents, by any person. Factors (6) Before making an order under subsection (1) or (2), the Minister must consider (a) its operational impact on the affected telecommunications service providers; (b) its financial impact on the affected telecommunications service providers; (c) its effect on the provision of telecommunications services in Canada; and (d) any other factor that the Minister considers relevant. ... No compensation (10) No one is entitled to any compensation from His Majesty in right of Canada for any financial losses resulting from the making of an order under subsection (1) or (2).
- gpm 1y agoThe headline is not true because "impose conditions" is not "strip". "Strip" would look like 15.2(2)(e) and (f) except targeting the ISPs customers instead of their suppliers. Imposing conditions does not as a matter of statutory interpretation include the ability to prohibit or terminate. > (e) prohibit a telecommunications service provider from entering into a service agreement for any product or service used in, or in relation to, its telecommunications network or telecommunications facilities, or any part of those networks or facilities; > (f) require that a telecommunications service provider terminate a service agreement referred to in paragraph (e); Moreover even if, say, 15.2(2)(f) referred to (d) instead of (e) the headline would still be entirely untrue because the charter would prohibit it and this law, like all laws, must be interpreted in a manner consistent with the charter.
- txrx0000 1y agoThey could make the ISP not be able to provision more than 0 kb/s of bandwidth to you unless some condition is met, which apparently could be anything that the Minister considers relevant. --- You're "endangering national security" by "spreading harmful information online". Such speech is not protected by the charter. You are now banned from the Internet. --- They probably won't do this right away, but the door is open. And they shouldn't be able to do this to the ISP's suppliers either.
- SV_BubbleTime 1y agoCertainly don’t give your clicks to an outlet you consider conservative to find out that the liberals you ideologically side with have written a bill so the headline remains entirely justified.
- gpm 1y agoAs I've describe elsewhere in this thread I've read what appear to be the relevant sections of the bill, and have concluded the headline is entirely unjustified. You're welcome to respond to those posts if you believe I missed a bit somewhere. I didn't read the article not because I would have to click on it, but because it is paywalled and I'm not giving them my money, as I said in the post you replied to.
- andy99 1y ago[flagged]
- bawolff 1y agoPeople overuse the word ad hominem. The post above is not an example of one. Ad hominen is when you use an irrelavent insult in an argument. Not every criticism of a source is an ad hominem. Edit: to clarify, i think there is a huge difference between saying something like: national post is known to lean right and not really like the liberals so we should verify they are fairly summarizing the liberal proposed law by actually reading the law in question (what parent did) vs for example, national post leans right therefore everything they say is bullshit and should be ignored (which would be an ad hominem)
- refurb 1y agoIt’s literally the definition of an ad hominem. adjective - (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
- Nevermark 1y agoA “Right” bias (whether real or perceived) would naturally be expected to be related to many positions they maintained. And they were given the benefit of a doubt and vindicated (in the commenter’s own opinion). Meaning their position was judged on its own merits. So not really ad hominem.
- brightball 1y agoThis legislation is clearly dangerous, but how do you associate it with targeting a particular group?
- api 1y agoIt’s always important to check these days, but nothing surprises me in the realm of bad laws anymore.
- torben-friis 1y agoThe universal push for expanded security trumping all is concerning. At this point authoritarian pushes are the best case scenario - I’m fearing it’s preparation for wartime.
- 1234letshaveatw 1y agoit's pretty much SOP for Canada
- MagicMoonlight 1y agoWe’re definitely in the pre-war era. It’s like when Britain was trying to negotiate with Hitler while rearming in the background. China is going to attack pearl harbour in the hopes that a sudden unexpected attack will cripple the pacific fleet and knock America out of the war. It won’t work, we’ll go through hell again. But every time these places think it will work, and they don’t factor in the fact that they are completely reliant on foreign trade for their economy. Russia is pretty much in war economy now, they have no choice but to escalate and invade Eastern Europe. They have no chance of winning, but that never matters to crazy people.
- kelipso 1y agoIt’s interesting how there is this pre-war vibe going on but when you describe the actual predictions, it seems extremely unlikely. It feels more like a phenomenon created through the internet than actual pre-war anything.
- torben-friis 1y agoThe china thing is very out there - but I’d see them going for the push in Taiwan and things escalating there. My main concern as a European is Russia. It is a historical truth that once a country goes through the process of starting a war economy it doesn’t usually dissolve or sit idle - conflict is going to happen there. For America, watching from the outside, a civil war seems much more likely than direct war with china.
- heavyset_go 1y agoDamn those rich bastards must really be afraid of us
- padjo 1y agoNot nearly afraid enough.
- thinkingtoilet 1y agoI have to laugh. Why do you think this? They own everything. They have successfully taken over both parties for them to steam roll literally everything they want. Taxes have never been lower. The wealth gap never higher. The only people trying to stand up to them are progressives but even the Democratic party works against them. They've won. They have nothing to be afraid of.
- Retric 1y agoWhat looks stable over decades isn’t necessarily stable.
- thinkingtoilet 1y agoI hope you're right!
- padjo 1y agoThat’s my point! I wish they were way more afraid.
- boringg 1y agoWhich country are you talking about? Theres no democratic party in Canada and the progressives in Canada are completely feckless due to their abysmal historical performance when in power in the provinces.
- gruez 1y ago>Taxes have never been lower. ? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S
- narrator 1y agoI think the problem with most average left of center people who want to be agreeable and civic minded is they have total incredulity at the government would actually do anything really screwed up, especially as they are so "moral" with their performative political correctness. How can someone who cares about the rights of minority groups act so tyrannically? There's always a glitch though somewhere, and people assume pious in one dimension, pious in all dimensions.
- charles_f 1y agoI'm not sure why you would mention "left of center". This seems to be true for everyone, look across the border of Canada if you want an example. People tend to be trusting of others, because society came to be through collaboration.
- dfxm12 1y agoWhy do you think this? Talking to Canadians (and Americans) who self-describe as left of centre, from centre-left to progressive and even a few beyond, this is not the case. People were afraid of what Poilievre would do. Americans definitely understand that Trump is doing really screwed up things. I don't think it is partisan. Off the top of my head, we saw leftists protest against Trudeau, Biden and Obama on gas pipelines, people locked in cages and drones.