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Austria hails 'brain gain' in luring 25 academics away from US after cuts
- constantcrying 1y agoHow is 25 American takings jobs in Austria newsworthy?
- htk 1y agoBecause it's a reason to bash Trump. Trump gives plenty of reasons to be bashed, but this news article seems like a stretch.
- sherr 1y agoTaking a less cynical view, it's just successful Austrian PR.
- htk 1y agoIt's right in the first paragraph: "Austria has lured what it calls 25 "top researchers" away from U.S. institutions including Harvard, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Princeton with grants set up in response to the Trump administration's funding cuts targeting universities."
- throwacct 1y agoThis article is missing key info. Which research areas are we talking about?
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago> Recipients of the grants of 500,000 euros ($587,000) each over two years range from post-doctoral researchers to professors and work in fields such as physics, chemistry and life sciences, the Austrian Academy of Sciences said in a statement on Thursday.
- cjbgkagh 1y agoNot an academic so there could be some context I don’t know but upon reading it it’s even worse, grants for 2 years, looks more like a secondment than a coup.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y agoNeed to start somewhere. In 2024 how many researchers did the same?
- devin 1y agoOn its own it isn't, but I suspect if all of these were reported you might think it quite significant.
- constantcrying 1y agoWhy do they not make an actual story out of this, do some research and publish whether there was some unusually high outflow of academics over the last two years? 25 people can not be an indication of anything. Academics especially are moving around often and take up work in different countries.
- foxglacier 1y agoEither it's too hard or it would show a nothing-burger. Anecdotes are better for spreading misinformation when you're constrained by being factual.
- hluska 1y agoCan you point out the misinformation?
- foxglacier 1y agoCalling it a "brain drain" when it's only 25 people. You can probably find 25 Austrian academics going to America and write the same brain drain article about that at the same time.
- hluska 1y agoThis Reuters article is based on a press release that was issued earlier today. The type of research you’re proposing would take weeks to be done, written and edited.
- ricardobeat 1y agoThese are researchers from Harvard, Princeton, and MIT. Sometimes there are only a handful of people worldwide in a particular field doing top level research.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoA nation doing a 180 from its longstanding strategy of gaining talent to pushing away talent is newsworthy. But it's easy to overlook without reporting on tangible examples.
- constantcrying 1y agoAcademics move around countries all the time for many reasons. It is ridiculous to assume that 25 people moving to different work places is any indication of a "shift in strategy".
- amanaplanacanal 1y agoIt's an example of the result of the shift in strategy. The shift in strategy has been widely reported elsewhere, and we are already well aware of it.
- x0x0 1y agoNot many people walk away from Harvard, MIT, Princeton, etc. If you had tenure there (a big if, since the article is unclear), or even were tenure track, that was viewed as one of the most prestigious and desirable jobs in the world. 25 people leaving is a sea change.
- constantcrying 1y ago>25 people leaving is a sea change. 25 Academics leaving is not "sea change". >If you had tenure there (a big if, since the article is unclear), or even were tenure track, that was viewed as one of the most prestigious and desirable jobs in the world. Some very major ifs there.
- ricardobeat 1y agoFor numbers, it's nearly 1% of all post-docs (~3400) in those three universities, leaving at once, to a single destination. You can do the math. It's a fact that the USA used to attract this talent, not export it.
- constantcrying 1y agoAcademics have always been leaving the US, just like Academics have always been coming to the US. A turnover in staff is normal, it has happened everywhere, always. >It's a fact that the USA used to attract this talent, not export it. And where is the evidence that it does not? People leaving is normal. Post-docs leave institution's all the time. One additional thought. If you think this is about a right wing political shift in the US, why would these researcher go to one of the strongholds of the far right in Europe?
- ricardobeat 1y agoArticles like this are the evidence. The news is not the specific number, but the growing trend [1] of academics looking to leave the US due to turmoil, cancelled grants, visas and the general political climate. There are at least a half dozen other EU countries with right wing governments. Austria’s current chancellor is centre-right, and thank god most “far right” parties in Europe are still kilometers away from their US counterparts, and would not dare interfere in academia in any way similar to Trump’s doings. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y
- araes 1y agoBecause it gets a lot of response, there's a lot of traction, many with positive sentiment, support, and "take me with you" equivalents. Because its a sign significant numbers of people, institutions, disciplines, and demographics are thinking that way. In stock market terminology it would be a signal to investors. Thread on Reddit 1mo ago about biotechnologist Wali Malik leaving his lab in Boston developing mass testing of active ingredients for pharmaceuticals got a decent amount of visibility. Also mentions the APART-USA grants. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1mzlk04/us_researcher_relocates_to_vienna_because_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1mzlk04/us_rese...
- constantcrying 1y ago>Because its a sign significant numbers of people, institutions, disciplines, and demographics are thinking that way. In stock market terminology it would be a signal to investors. How is something incredibly common a signal for anything? Academics move to other countries all the time.
- vor_ 1y agoThat's a very reductionist way to describe it. According to the article, these are key researchers from some of America's most prestigious universities.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mensetmanusman 1y agoIt’s narrative building by the media owners. We get to see how they fight rhetorically through headlines.
- bigyabai 1y agoBut when it's one guy being hired by Meta, it's a landmark in private enterprise and irresistible reporting. Hmm...
- unixhero 1y agoAustria is a really wonderful place to live as well. Food, bakery traditions, beer traditions, world class skiing.
- throw_m239339 1y ago[flagged]
- jonny_eh 1y agoImagine if people made a Trump joke whenever New York City came up in conversation.
- Glant 1y agoWhen talking to foreigners and someone mentions USA, it's about 50/50 I get a trump joke or a fat joke. I don't think HN is the place for it, but stereotyping countries is pretty common.
- jacquesm 1y agoIt should be trivial to combine them into one for a 100% score.
- mvieira38 1y agoI'm in Brazil and that happens often
- unixhero 1y agoSo uh... wonderful women, good social skills, awesome parties... those are just true :)
- chermi 1y agoYes, just imagine if trump was brought up often no matter the subject.... I can't imagine what point you think you're making.
- jancsika 1y agoThey could make it an even 26 by the end of the night if they play their cards right. bats eyelashes, casually implements b-tree
- hluska 1y agoI think you can safely hold off on the eyelash batting for a few months. There were only 25 fellowships available, applications opened on July 4th and all have been awarded. This page on the program will tell you more: https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- arunbahl 1y agoAs a startup that chose to locate in Canada, we’ve already had a dozen amazing candidates currently in the US reach out and apply for roles since we shared our thinking earlier this week [0]. The feeling of ambient immigration hostility in the US (even beyond any one specific policy) is palpable. 0: https://aloe.inc/blog/the-best-talent-in-the-world https://aloe.inc/blog/the-best-talent-in-the-world
- klipt 1y agoCanada seems to be entering its own anti immigrant phase though, especially against South Asian immigrants https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/hate-toward-south-asians-skyrocketing-in-canada-report-says/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/hate-toward-south-asia...
- locallost 1y agoI was hoping the EU can capitalize on this, but remain skeptical as the EU politicians have noticed what kind of rhetoric is successful and are starting to bang the same drum louder and louder. Being anti immigration one of the main ideas. We'll see. My bet is China will be the big winner.
- mr90210 1y agoThis has been my observation living in the EU. Two regions that have been capitalising from skilled programmers and that hardly anyone talks about are the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
- karmakurtisaani 1y agoThey are in an excellent position to capitalize on the situation: deep pockets and a shady reputation that has kept competition low, so they should have plenty of open position.
- alecco 1y agoRecently the EU allocated billions to fund tech startups. But if you read the bare minimum demands, you'll see how suspicious it is. Like, you have to have a female co-founder, when everybody in the trade knows it's very hard to find a trustworthy co-founder of any kind. I haven't heard of anybody getting these funds. I suspect the recipients were pre-selected before the announcement and the criteria was tailored to match them. And I also suspect, in some roundabout way, part of the money will end up in political campaigns or something.
- bee_rider 1y agoHow would you hear of somebody getting these funds? I don’t personally know anybody who’s gotten massive VC funding in the US either, but I think it does happen. I don’t see any reason to be skeptical of the requirement to find a female co-founder, I mean it is clearly a program to promote equality, but that is an uncontroversial goal in some places.
- m-hodges 1y agoI’m currently reading a biography of Kurt Gödel¹ and the first 60 pages are about Austria’s authoritarian-driven brain drain almost 100 years ago. ¹ https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Edge-Reason-Life-G%C3%B6del/dp/1324005440 https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Edge-Reason-Life-G%C3%B6del/d...
- IIAOPSW 1y agoKurt Godel rather famously claimed to have spotted logical contradictions in the US constitution, which of course is not too controversial on its own (and was probably right given who he is), but presenting this argument in response to questions about the constitution that were given as part of his citizenship test was an insane thing to try no matter how good his logic. Amazingly he still passed.
- m-hodges 1y agoEinstein talked him out of presenting it. Recent HN conversation on it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44812159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44812159
- charliebwrites 1y agoAustria, and Vienna in particular has always held a special place in my heart Do we know if they have programs like this for high skill tech workers or is it just PhDs at this point?
- j7ake 1y agoSalary range there is like 30 to 70k euros
- gmueckl 1y agoThe article doesn't go into details whether these academics are full professors or e.g. postdocs. Twenty-five tenured professors would be a big deal because they tend to either bring their workgroups along or rebuild them at the new university. That's where the true impact of such news lies if these are indeed teachers: these groups produce a steady stream of future experts in the form of graduates and PhDs in their respective domains. Given the timelines for careers of students and young academics, the full impact of these moves should start to show in about 5 to 10 years.
- the_snooze 1y agoAnother factor is if they're all from the same (sub)discipline. It doesn't take a lot of established researchers moving to shift a field's center of gravity somewhere else. When you start seeing research conferences that used to be in the US be held elsewhere instead, you'll know that the change has happened.
- Yoric 1y agoI'm on a researcher mailing-list discussing exactly this at the moment. For the moment, the main argument for keeping some conferences within the US is the number of researchers (typically PhDs and postdocs) who couldn't attend then re-enter the US. We'll see how that goes.
- threecheese 1y agoI follow a few Australian folks on social media, and it was really surprising to see how much of an Asian/Chinese influence there is. Asian flavors, signage, brands, even slang. It’s a departure from American cultural hegemony that I (as an American) just did not expect. After wrongly thinking for my entire life that Aussies were basically American cowboys plus crocodiles, I now see news like this as just part of a feedback loop of accelerating loss of global influence - or more accurate, transfer of influence. Coca Cola —> Lychee.
- tptacek 1y agoThis is a story about Austria.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y agoNot gonna lie I also read it as Australia....
- jawilson2 1y agoI think it is the "Austria hails..." The extra ia/ai in there is throwing off our brains. I had to read it a few times before it stuck.
- em-bee 1y agodon't worry, austrians get that all the time. i always have to point out that i am talking about the one in europe, next to germany, before it clicks with people
- guywithahat 1y agoI wish it said more about what these researchers did, other than they were the result of cuts to things like trans policies and opposition to Palestine protests. It would be interesting to see if these are semiconductor researchers or gender studies.
- tptacek 1y agoEven if they were full professors, 25 seems like a literal drop in the bucket. There are 187 R1 universities in the US. Competition for professorships is so intense that a lot of people look at grad school as a sucker's bet. I'm happy for these people and for Austria, but I don't see a real news story here.
- Bhilai 1y agodrop by drop, thats how a bucket fills.
- hollerith 1y agoOK, but I want to read news stories about the state of the bucket, not about 25 of the drops.
- the_snooze 1y agoThe thing is that professors and research groups aren't fungible. Each one that moves represents a nontrivial loss in expertise for the US in some field. There are only so many groups doing basic research into materials science for microelectronics, for example---certainly not at all 187 R1 universities. But something like that is a strategic asset for the US, to the point that there's a DARPA office specifically to fund that work (https://www.darpa.mil/about/offices/mto https://www.darpa.mil/about/offices/mto).
- tptacek 1y agoSure. It can be a meaningful story, I just often find myself wanting to see threads grounded in what the denominator is for the headline number.
- Yoric 1y agoTrue. What is meaningful, I suspect, is that this reverses the usual direction of brain drain. If this is not a fluke and that reversal gets consolidated, yeah, that's really bad for the US. Alongside the $100.000 H1B, there is a chance that this could durably shift Silicon Valley-style creativity outside of the US.
- FergusArgyll 1y agohttps://www.univie.ac.at/aktuelles/detail/sechs-us-forscherinnen-kommen-an-die-universitaet-wien https://www.univie.ac.at/aktuelles/detail/sechs-us-forscheri... Has some names. Only had patience to check the first one. Visiting Assistant Professor of Global Premodern Art History at the Ohio State University. Happy for him, wish Austria the best of luck...
- hatmatrix 1y agoRegardless of institution, there is a fierce debate of whether this is the right strategy after all - there are many excellent postdocs and scientists already in Europe waiting for faculty openings. Why not open these new positions to all candidates?
- somenameforme 1y agoThe article mentions paying them $587,000 each over 2 years. It also mentions at least some of the recruits were post-docs who average pay in the US is like $60k. If this is what brain drain is, where can I sign up?
- zaptheimpaler 1y agoI think a grant includes money for all expenses - experiments, equipment, salary for all staff not just the post-doc etc.
- araes 1y agoOAW Article on the Subject: https://www.oeaw.ac.at/en/news/harvard-princeton-mit-25-top-researchers-are-moving-from-the-us-to-austria-with-oeaw-scholarships https://www.oeaw.ac.at/en/news/harvard-princeton-mit-25-top-... OAW Call for Nominations: https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa OAW APART-USA Info: https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa/apart-usa-information https://stipendien.oeaw.ac.at/en/fellowships/apart-usa/apart... > "The APART-USA fellowship is granted for a period of 48 months and must be commenced within six months of notification of the grant." > "The APART-USA fellowship amounts to a total of EUR 500,000. 25% of this funding (in total: EUR 125,000) comes from the nominating host research institution. 75% (EUR 375,000) comes from the Fonds Zukunft Österreich (FZÖ) of the National Foundation for Research, Technology and Development (NFTE)." > "funding can be extended by up to three months at no extra cost." > "The fellowship covers personnel costs as well as costs for relocation, travel, materials and other costs (such as mentoring, training, etc.)." OAW = Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften = Austrian Academy of Sciences
- kelipso 1y agoI don’t know if this includes starting research budget but if it does, it’s a very modest offer for top researchers. Starting research budget offered by R1 universities in the US can be millions of dollars for top researchers (in CS but that’s all I know about), before they need to get funding on their own. I guess it would be good for researchers who lost all of their funding.
- mgh2 1y agohttps://archive.is/rGDNX https://archive.is/rGDNX
- jmclnx 1y agoI hope Austria Colleges who made out sends Trump a nice Thank Your Card and maybe a gift certificate to McDonalds :)