9 ms·

This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. > Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. What I

This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. > Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? One can dream perhaps. Until then adults who are willing to 'do what they're told' will be the ones who are inconvenienced by this constantly. Edit: Also this will completely disable any new phone OS' being developed. Why would anyone bother when you can't verify your wallet to do anything online.

Luker88 1y ago
> oes that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications'...? No. It's still required by law, which means that your desktop application will require some interaction with your smartphone.
- cenamus 1y ago
  Further forcing everybody to have their phone on person at all times
  - pessimizer 1y ago
    I've been saying this for years: eventually not having your phone on you and powered up at all times will not be a crime, but it will be grounds for questioning and search. One day, there will be a knock on your door. "Good morning, this is the police. Is there something wrong with your phone? Is your phone broken? Can we provide you with a charge?" "No, I must have turned it off accidentally." "Can we assist you with an upgrade? The newer models don't have power buttons."
    - Forgeties79 1y ago
      The Pedestrian: https://xpressenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/Stories/The-Pedestrian.pdf https://xpressenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/Stories/The-Ped...
    - sjw987 1y ago
      I think you're exactly right, and the groundwork is being laid today by the standards society is setting for everybody. People will assume a lack of phone or the presence of a phone but lack of usage / content on it, makes you guilty of some sort of crime similar to owning a burner phone. Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change.
      - thewebguyd 1y ago
        > Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change. While not less than 10 minutes per day for me, but I was having this argument on reddit over the iPhone Air - people couldn't fathom that there's someone out there that is not on their phone 24/7, and doesn't use their phone as their main computing device. I clock in at under an hour screen time most days. It's the least ergonomic device for me to do anything remotely serious. Can't even stand typing on a virtual keyboard. My laptop is, and will remain, my main interface to the net and communication with others. You'd think I was some kind of weird hermit luddite because of it.
        sjw987 1y ago
        I've found the divide between people who switched to using a phone full time and people who still use physical peripheral based computers (even for recreational activity) is generally linked with whether the person is a digital productive/consumerist type person. Nobody is coding or writing anything longer than an email or social media post on a virtual keyboard. The average screen time for younger people borders on 7 hours. It's almost a third of the day or 40% of the woken day for most people. I still can't wrap my head around how that can even be possible, but then I see in public most people you look at in any given moment are reading, watching or sending/sharing something. If the conspiracy theorists are right, the tech industry created a surveillance system beyond their wildest dreams.
      - vikarti 1y ago
        Scroogled, by Cory Doctorow comes to mind.
    - fhdkweig 1y ago
      According to Mallen Baker, this is already happening in 9 countries. https://youtu.be/0zlDVM1x8P4?t=228 https://youtu.be/0zlDVM1x8P4?t=228
    - mhitza 1y ago
      Black Mirror "The entire history of you" now in mobile app version.
    - marcosdumay 1y ago
      So... 1984?
    - im3w1l 1y ago
      What does seem to be happening is rather that the assumption of having a phone will be built into every little thing - in particular mobile payments are becoming mandatory in some places. Transportation including parking is sometimes locked behind an app. We could also see stuff like landlords moving to smart locks that a tenant open with their phone. Since children are universally not considered real people with real rights schools requiring them to have the right apps to perform their schoolwork are to be expected.
    - GoblinSlayer 1y ago
      Not having power button is useless if the battery works only for a few hours.
    - vikarti 1y ago
      Possible option(will it BE Option?): EU:Here is my phone. Yes, it's working. It's chinese one with Huawei's Harmony OS, photos are great. or it's Russian one, I really like Pushkin so decided to get their model. Russia: Here is my phone. Yes,it's google pixel with GrapheneOS (it's more secure - Mother Russia is danger so everyone must be vigilant! I banking app via RuStore). USA: Here is my phone. I really like French. it's phone with with stock e/OS Point is - if it's impossible NOT to be observed - you (for now) still have choice which security service will observe you. $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE security services/police is unlikely to arrest $CITIZENS_OF_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE without $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCEtroops be here FIRST (and you will knew it). Only potential threat is that $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE could try to be interoperable with each other
      - int_19h 1y ago
        > Russia: Here is my phone. Yes,it's google pixel with GrapheneOS (it's more secure - Mother Russia is danger so everyone must be vigilant! I banking app via RuStore). Mother Russia: we'll take care about security, comrade, you just shut up and use a phone from this here list of approved models. And GrapheneOS? squinting suspiciously that's what extremists use to watch gay pornography; are you an extremist, then? No? Let's see if officer Rubber Hosesky here believes you...
    - int_19h 1y ago
      The modern smartphone was predicted with considerable accuracy in a 1965 sci-fi story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_the_Pussyfoot#Joymaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_the_Pussyfoot#Joyma... "The remote-access computer transponder called the "joymaker" is your most valuable single possession in your new life. If you can imagine a combination of telephone, credit card, alarm clock, pocket bar, reference library, and full-time secretary, you will have sketched some of the functions provided by your joymaker." Just about the only thing today that's meaningfully different from the novel is that our devices are smaller and have screens instead of using voice as the primary input/output method. Well, and they don't have a "medical" module that can dispense drugs (yet?). Interestingly enough, in the setting of that book, possession of a joymaker is a marker of good standing, and lack of one (e.g. because one cannot afford to pay for service) basically makes one homeless and a target for all kinds of nastiness including from the cops.
  - nehal3m 1y ago
    And as a prerequisite enforcing dependency on titanic (and in my case foreign) tech companies that are free to unilaterally ban you from communicating with your government. This is a BAD idea.
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    Depending on the implementation, you can run the app on your computer. I don't see why the iOS app wouldn't work on macOS, and there are tons of tools to run Android apps on Windows and Linux. If the actual implementations do copy the dependency on Play Integrity and other such APIs, that does become a problem (getting past that is a major annoyance on amd64 computers because there are so few real amd64 Android devices that can be spoofed). However, the law regarding these apps specifically states that the use of this app must be optional. I'm not sure websites and services will implement other solutions, but in theory you should not need a phone unless you want the convenience and privacy factor of app verification. I expect alternatives (such as 1 cent payments with credit cards in your name) to stick around, at least until we get a better idea about how this thing will work out in practice.
    - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
      Waydroid on linux comes to mind. It sort of semi worked out of the box on archlinux but I can't try to imagine setting up somewhere else.. Wait a minute, while writing this comment, I realized that there was a guy who sort of packaged waydroid into flatpak-ish to run android apps in flatpak. https://flathub.org/en/apps/net.newpipe.NewPipe https://flathub.org/en/apps/net.newpipe.NewPipe (It uses android translation layer??) I am not an EU citizen but if somebody is & they want this age verification app on desktop, maybe the best way might be to support this android translation layer to convert this EU app into something that can run through flatpak and then use linux I suppose. I mean, some of y'all are so talented that I feel like surely someone would do it if things do go this way! So not too much to be worried about I suppose :>
    - 1over137 1y ago
      >I don't see why the iOS app wouldn't work on macOS That requires an AppleID, i.e. an account with a foreign corporation.
- Aaargh20318 1y ago
  The wallet app can be started using a QR code. You can then finish the verification on your phone and continue on the desktop website/app/whatever.
  - snickerdoodle14 1y ago
    How can I do this when I don't have a phone?
    - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
      Don't you people have phones? Edit: Sorry that reference was a deep cut, I was quoting the devs of that awful Diablo mobile game way back.
      - debazel 1y ago
        A phone isn't enough, you need an Apple or Google account as well. So if your Google account gets banned, you might as well just jump of a bridge because it's over for you.
        shmel 1y ago
        That is easy to solve though. If Apple/Google become essentially an utility, they are legally mandated to provide an account for any EU citizen =)
        1over137 1y ago
        You want companies based in a country threatening to take over parts of the EU (Greenland) as being required for everything you do in society?
      - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
        No? I had been with dumb phone for almost a year from like 2024-25? What point are you trying to make as I think that there are some good dumb phones in the market which even support things like signal. I used to use the messaging app through SMS tho, the people that knew me (that 1 friend gets a shoutout here who used to msg me through SMS in the world of whatsapp and my mom!!) Most phones are used for two things that my father used to quote: Whatsapp (messaging app) and youtube(social media) Entertainment could somewhat be offloaded via music player etc. into dumb phones and to be really honest, I think that even things like hackernews could be operated on those dumb phones if given the ability to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYrBpBJRI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYrBpBJRI4 : this is the dumbphone which supports signal btw. Wish there was a way to make app for dumbphones like these just as how we can make apps for androids. I was shocked by how much feature packed my chinese dumb phone was for 11.27$ lol. It just didn't have internet & yeah games as well.
- izacus 1y ago
  My EU country allows tapping the ID card on a NFC reader on PC for verification. No smartphone needed for desktop use. Why wouldn't that be sufficient?
  - 201984 1y ago
    Most PCs don't have NFC readers.
    - baq 1y ago
      No reason that couldn't change. China should give good bulk discounts on 300M units /s
    - izacus 1y ago
      Cool, but that's the fallback they offer for folks who can't use the mobile app and it works just fine.
    - monksy 1y ago
      Smart card readers are normal in Israel on desktops.
    - margana 1y ago
      Almost all PCs do however have USB ports, which means they can have anything you can plug into an USB port.
  - Freak_NL 1y ago
    Don't worry, that feature will inevitably be phased out because only a small percentage of people use it. Every new secure government identification/authentication/verification thing will try to 'just' use Android/IOS, because 'everyone' has one those smartphones.
qiine 1y ago
This read more like "we thought pc was a dead relic of the past" sadly
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  you could pretty much replace the statement with "General purpose computing considered harmful"
  - qiine 1y ago
    or user 'having free will is problematic and unsafe' if we want to go even deeper :(
    - eimrine 1y ago
      What is the location of your free will in your body? Is it in brain or in quantum particles, or anywhere else?
  - ethagnawl 1y ago
    > "General purpose computing considered harmful" Even though it sounds like _you_ probably know this, Cory Doctorow has been sounding this alarm for years. As usual, it seems he was right about the possibility of this being a legitimate battlefront in the (actual, non-hyperbolic) war on freedom.
- amelius 1y ago
  I think it's more that smartphones have built in security measures that prevent hacking. It already works for bank apps, so why not use it for government stuff too? It sucks, yes, but that's probably how these people think.
  - dathinab 1y ago
    but if age verification is used for what it claims it is such hacking protections are not only unnecessary but fundamentally harmful (i.e. if a child hacks their PC it's fine if they circumvent age verification, the main responsibility still lies with parents and as such tools like parent controls are much more relevant) the main reason is that this is not a reference implementations or "this is the app everyone must use" case but a "to see what is technical possible/practical" "research/POV" project this also makes the "EU age verification app" title quite misleading
mrtksn 1y ago
App not available doesn't mean age verification not required. You can be required to confirm your account from your mobile phone or scan some QR code on mobile that will take you to age verification session and once completed you can continue from the desktop. I mean, otherwise would be like not being bound to speed limits if you don't have a speedometer.
- whatevaa 1y ago
  So a loss of mobile phone will mean loss of everything? Maybe we should just kill people if they lose a portable mobile device which can just stop working by itself? I fully expect there to be some idiotic scenarios where to get x, you need to already have x.
  - zelphirkalt 1y ago
    Be as much work as possible in all places, where the default option is to do something with your mobile phone. If enough people do that, then the alternative to using your phone will need to have good process, so that it is not holding up everyone else. If something doesn't work without your phone, report it being broken. If they tell you to use your phone, tell them you don't have one. If possible, leave their service, if they don't care. We have to make it their issue as much as possible, when they try to push their shit onto us. Surprisingly often there is a workable alternative to using ones smart phone. We have to make use of those as much as possible, so that the cost for them to get rid of those options will be high and they think twice before doing that and offending us.
  - mrtksn 1y ago
    Why would loss of a mobile phone be that dramatic? Go buy a new one? Having the equipment in something that requires an equipment is pretty reasonable when the price range is within the reach of everybody.
  - fithisux 1y ago
    They will terrorize us like that and then, they will use implanted chips. One primary one backup. It is extremely rare to lose both. Possibly the primary will be in your head.
b800h 1y ago
Or rather: "You will need a smartphone to use this desktop app".
j0057 1y ago
> Also this will completely disable any new phone OS' being developed. Why would anyone bother when you can't verify your wallet to do anything online. This already the case today, you can't run your bank's app or government eID apps on anything but Google or Apple devices.
- ale42 1y ago
  True. But it doesn't _need_ to be so, it's actually a problem.
- lloydatkinson 1y ago
  Back when Microsoft said they were going to let Android apps run on Windows before killing it off for I think the third time, I was excited that I'd be able to run my bank app on my desktop. The app is a simple process to login, but the website has about 50 steps to login making it unappealing to use (probably on purpose).
  - Gander5739 1y ago
    You can, aith Windows subsystem for Android. Unsurprisingly, it's not going to be supported for much longer.
  - worldsayshi 1y ago
    I get that it wouldn't be optimal but can you run it on an android emulator?
- freehorse 1y ago
  True, but there are alternatives to using these services, though a bit more inconvenient. What will be the alternative to the age verification mobile app?
- logifail 1y ago
  > you can't run your bank's app I can log in to my bank account using my desktop PC > government eID apps I can sign into government websites using my desktop PC and its smart card reader and my government-issued eID smartcard. No smartphone needed.
sidewndr46 1y ago
Just wait until kids figure out you can run an emulator for an older desktop platform on a modern phone with ease
hopelite 1y ago
> What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? I doubt it unless something odd happens like triggering some reaction. They’ve looked at the data and see the majority of society using “phones”, which are really just increasingly small computers that happen to have a feature to also make calls; and they’ve decided that this trap they’re leading us all into can and may even need to stay open and inviting for a while anyways until the older people die off and desktop form factors kind of fall by the wayside, before the trap is even ready to be sprung. In the mean time they’ll just gaslight and lie about what they’re doing, to save and protect the children of course, until the day that you tune around from a distraction and the trap door is shut behind you. It’s the same MO as always, with the gullible and naive enablers being essentially the worse threat than the actual perpetrators.
cortesoft 1y ago
> This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. I think this is more an example of you misunderstanding the desires of the people pushing for this. They want to actually ban this content, they just know that is a harder sell than restricting to adults. So for them, making it harder or impossible to access the content is a feature, not a bug.

Luker88 1y ago

> oes that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications'...? No. It's still required by law, which means that your desktop application will require some interaction with your smartphone.

cenamus 1y ago
Further forcing everybody to have their phone on person at all times
- pessimizer 1y ago
  I've been saying this for years: eventually not having your phone on you and powered up at all times will not be a crime, but it will be grounds for questioning and search. One day, there will be a knock on your door. "Good morning, this is the police. Is there something wrong with your phone? Is your phone broken? Can we provide you with a charge?" "No, I must have turned it off accidentally." "Can we assist you with an upgrade? The newer models don't have power buttons."
  - Forgeties79 1y ago
    The Pedestrian: https://xpressenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/Stories/The-Pedestrian.pdf https://xpressenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/Stories/The-Ped...
  - sjw987 1y ago
    I think you're exactly right, and the groundwork is being laid today by the standards society is setting for everybody. People will assume a lack of phone or the presence of a phone but lack of usage / content on it, makes you guilty of some sort of crime similar to owning a burner phone. Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change.
    - thewebguyd 1y ago
      > Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change. While not less than 10 minutes per day for me, but I was having this argument on reddit over the iPhone Air - people couldn't fathom that there's someone out there that is not on their phone 24/7, and doesn't use their phone as their main computing device. I clock in at under an hour screen time most days. It's the least ergonomic device for me to do anything remotely serious. Can't even stand typing on a virtual keyboard. My laptop is, and will remain, my main interface to the net and communication with others. You'd think I was some kind of weird hermit luddite because of it.
      - sjw987 1y ago
        I've found the divide between people who switched to using a phone full time and people who still use physical peripheral based computers (even for recreational activity) is generally linked with whether the person is a digital productive/consumerist type person. Nobody is coding or writing anything longer than an email or social media post on a virtual keyboard. The average screen time for younger people borders on 7 hours. It's almost a third of the day or 40% of the woken day for most people. I still can't wrap my head around how that can even be possible, but then I see in public most people you look at in any given moment are reading, watching or sending/sharing something. If the conspiracy theorists are right, the tech industry created a surveillance system beyond their wildest dreams.
    - vikarti 1y ago
      Scroogled, by Cory Doctorow comes to mind.
  - fhdkweig 1y ago
    According to Mallen Baker, this is already happening in 9 countries. https://youtu.be/0zlDVM1x8P4?t=228 https://youtu.be/0zlDVM1x8P4?t=228
  - mhitza 1y ago
    Black Mirror "The entire history of you" now in mobile app version.
  - marcosdumay 1y ago
    So... 1984?
  - im3w1l 1y ago
    What does seem to be happening is rather that the assumption of having a phone will be built into every little thing - in particular mobile payments are becoming mandatory in some places. Transportation including parking is sometimes locked behind an app. We could also see stuff like landlords moving to smart locks that a tenant open with their phone. Since children are universally not considered real people with real rights schools requiring them to have the right apps to perform their schoolwork are to be expected.
  - GoblinSlayer 1y ago
    Not having power button is useless if the battery works only for a few hours.
  - vikarti 1y ago
    Possible option(will it BE Option?): EU:Here is my phone. Yes, it's working. It's chinese one with Huawei's Harmony OS, photos are great. or it's Russian one, I really like Pushkin so decided to get their model. Russia: Here is my phone. Yes,it's google pixel with GrapheneOS (it's more secure - Mother Russia is danger so everyone must be vigilant! I banking app via RuStore). USA: Here is my phone. I really like French. it's phone with with stock e/OS Point is - if it's impossible NOT to be observed - you (for now) still have choice which security service will observe you. $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE security services/police is unlikely to arrest $CITIZENS_OF_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE without $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCEtroops be here FIRST (and you will knew it). Only potential threat is that $NOT_YOUR_COUNTRY_OR_ALLIANCE could try to be interoperable with each other
    - int_19h 1y ago
      > Russia: Here is my phone. Yes,it's google pixel with GrapheneOS (it's more secure - Mother Russia is danger so everyone must be vigilant! I banking app via RuStore). Mother Russia: we'll take care about security, comrade, you just shut up and use a phone from this here list of approved models. And GrapheneOS? squinting suspiciously that's what extremists use to watch gay pornography; are you an extremist, then? No? Let's see if officer Rubber Hosesky here believes you...
  - int_19h 1y ago
    The modern smartphone was predicted with considerable accuracy in a 1965 sci-fi story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_the_Pussyfoot#Joymaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_the_Pussyfoot#Joyma... "The remote-access computer transponder called the "joymaker" is your most valuable single possession in your new life. If you can imagine a combination of telephone, credit card, alarm clock, pocket bar, reference library, and full-time secretary, you will have sketched some of the functions provided by your joymaker." Just about the only thing today that's meaningfully different from the novel is that our devices are smaller and have screens instead of using voice as the primary input/output method. Well, and they don't have a "medical" module that can dispense drugs (yet?). Interestingly enough, in the setting of that book, possession of a joymaker is a marker of good standing, and lack of one (e.g. because one cannot afford to pay for service) basically makes one homeless and a target for all kinds of nastiness including from the cops.
- nehal3m 1y ago
  And as a prerequisite enforcing dependency on titanic (and in my case foreign) tech companies that are free to unilaterally ban you from communicating with your government. This is a BAD idea.
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  Depending on the implementation, you can run the app on your computer. I don't see why the iOS app wouldn't work on macOS, and there are tons of tools to run Android apps on Windows and Linux. If the actual implementations do copy the dependency on Play Integrity and other such APIs, that does become a problem (getting past that is a major annoyance on amd64 computers because there are so few real amd64 Android devices that can be spoofed). However, the law regarding these apps specifically states that the use of this app must be optional. I'm not sure websites and services will implement other solutions, but in theory you should not need a phone unless you want the convenience and privacy factor of app verification. I expect alternatives (such as 1 cent payments with credit cards in your name) to stick around, at least until we get a better idea about how this thing will work out in practice.
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    Waydroid on linux comes to mind. It sort of semi worked out of the box on archlinux but I can't try to imagine setting up somewhere else.. Wait a minute, while writing this comment, I realized that there was a guy who sort of packaged waydroid into flatpak-ish to run android apps in flatpak. https://flathub.org/en/apps/net.newpipe.NewPipe https://flathub.org/en/apps/net.newpipe.NewPipe (It uses android translation layer??) I am not an EU citizen but if somebody is & they want this age verification app on desktop, maybe the best way might be to support this android translation layer to convert this EU app into something that can run through flatpak and then use linux I suppose. I mean, some of y'all are so talented that I feel like surely someone would do it if things do go this way! So not too much to be worried about I suppose :>
  - 1over137 1y ago
    >I don't see why the iOS app wouldn't work on macOS That requires an AppleID, i.e. an account with a foreign corporation.
Aaargh20318 1y ago
The wallet app can be started using a QR code. You can then finish the verification on your phone and continue on the desktop website/app/whatever.
- snickerdoodle14 1y ago
  How can I do this when I don't have a phone?
  - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
    Don't you people have phones? Edit: Sorry that reference was a deep cut, I was quoting the devs of that awful Diablo mobile game way back.
    - debazel 1y ago
      A phone isn't enough, you need an Apple or Google account as well. So if your Google account gets banned, you might as well just jump of a bridge because it's over for you.
      - shmel 1y ago
        That is easy to solve though. If Apple/Google become essentially an utility, they are legally mandated to provide an account for any EU citizen =)
        1over137 1y ago
        You want companies based in a country threatening to take over parts of the EU (Greenland) as being required for everything you do in society?
    - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
      No? I had been with dumb phone for almost a year from like 2024-25? What point are you trying to make as I think that there are some good dumb phones in the market which even support things like signal. I used to use the messaging app through SMS tho, the people that knew me (that 1 friend gets a shoutout here who used to msg me through SMS in the world of whatsapp and my mom!!) Most phones are used for two things that my father used to quote: Whatsapp (messaging app) and youtube(social media) Entertainment could somewhat be offloaded via music player etc. into dumb phones and to be really honest, I think that even things like hackernews could be operated on those dumb phones if given the ability to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYrBpBJRI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdYrBpBJRI4 : this is the dumbphone which supports signal btw. Wish there was a way to make app for dumbphones like these just as how we can make apps for androids. I was shocked by how much feature packed my chinese dumb phone was for 11.27$ lol. It just didn't have internet & yeah games as well.
izacus 1y ago
My EU country allows tapping the ID card on a NFC reader on PC for verification. No smartphone needed for desktop use. Why wouldn't that be sufficient?
- 201984 1y ago
  Most PCs don't have NFC readers.
  - baq 1y ago
    No reason that couldn't change. China should give good bulk discounts on 300M units /s
  - izacus 1y ago
    Cool, but that's the fallback they offer for folks who can't use the mobile app and it works just fine.
  - monksy 1y ago
    Smart card readers are normal in Israel on desktops.
  - margana 1y ago
    Almost all PCs do however have USB ports, which means they can have anything you can plug into an USB port.
- Freak_NL 1y ago
  Don't worry, that feature will inevitably be phased out because only a small percentage of people use it. Every new secure government identification/authentication/verification thing will try to 'just' use Android/IOS, because 'everyone' has one those smartphones.

qiine 1y ago

This read more like "we thought pc was a dead relic of the past" sadly

sidewndr46 1y ago
you could pretty much replace the statement with "General purpose computing considered harmful"
- qiine 1y ago
  or user 'having free will is problematic and unsafe' if we want to go even deeper :(
  - eimrine 1y ago
    What is the location of your free will in your body? Is it in brain or in quantum particles, or anywhere else?
- ethagnawl 1y ago
  > "General purpose computing considered harmful" Even though it sounds like _you_ probably know this, Cory Doctorow has been sounding this alarm for years. As usual, it seems he was right about the possibility of this being a legitimate battlefront in the (actual, non-hyperbolic) war on freedom.
amelius 1y ago
I think it's more that smartphones have built in security measures that prevent hacking. It already works for bank apps, so why not use it for government stuff too? It sucks, yes, but that's probably how these people think.
- dathinab 1y ago
  but if age verification is used for what it claims it is such hacking protections are not only unnecessary but fundamentally harmful (i.e. if a child hacks their PC it's fine if they circumvent age verification, the main responsibility still lies with parents and as such tools like parent controls are much more relevant) the main reason is that this is not a reference implementations or "this is the app everyone must use" case but a "to see what is technical possible/practical" "research/POV" project this also makes the "EU age verification app" title quite misleading

mrtksn 1y ago

App not available doesn't mean age verification not required. You can be required to confirm your account from your mobile phone or scan some QR code on mobile that will take you to age verification session and once completed you can continue from the desktop. I mean, otherwise would be like not being bound to speed limits if you don't have a speedometer.

whatevaa 1y ago
So a loss of mobile phone will mean loss of everything? Maybe we should just kill people if they lose a portable mobile device which can just stop working by itself? I fully expect there to be some idiotic scenarios where to get x, you need to already have x.
- zelphirkalt 1y ago
  Be as much work as possible in all places, where the default option is to do something with your mobile phone. If enough people do that, then the alternative to using your phone will need to have good process, so that it is not holding up everyone else. If something doesn't work without your phone, report it being broken. If they tell you to use your phone, tell them you don't have one. If possible, leave their service, if they don't care. We have to make it their issue as much as possible, when they try to push their shit onto us. Surprisingly often there is a workable alternative to using ones smart phone. We have to make use of those as much as possible, so that the cost for them to get rid of those options will be high and they think twice before doing that and offending us.
- mrtksn 1y ago
  Why would loss of a mobile phone be that dramatic? Go buy a new one? Having the equipment in something that requires an equipment is pretty reasonable when the price range is within the reach of everybody.
- fithisux 1y ago
  They will terrorize us like that and then, they will use implanted chips. One primary one backup. It is extremely rare to lose both. Possibly the primary will be in your head.

b800h 1y ago

Or rather: "You will need a smartphone to use this desktop app".

j0057 1y ago

> Also this will completely disable any new phone OS' being developed. Why would anyone bother when you can't verify your wallet to do anything online. This already the case today, you can't run your bank's app or government eID apps on anything but Google or Apple devices.

ale42 1y ago
True. But it doesn't _need_ to be so, it's actually a problem.
lloydatkinson 1y ago
Back when Microsoft said they were going to let Android apps run on Windows before killing it off for I think the third time, I was excited that I'd be able to run my bank app on my desktop. The app is a simple process to login, but the website has about 50 steps to login making it unappealing to use (probably on purpose).
- Gander5739 1y ago
  You can, aith Windows subsystem for Android. Unsurprisingly, it's not going to be supported for much longer.
- worldsayshi 1y ago
  I get that it wouldn't be optimal but can you run it on an android emulator?
freehorse 1y ago
True, but there are alternatives to using these services, though a bit more inconvenient. What will be the alternative to the age verification mobile app?
logifail 1y ago
> you can't run your bank's app I can log in to my bank account using my desktop PC > government eID apps I can sign into government websites using my desktop PC and its smart card reader and my government-issued eID smartcard. No smartphone needed.

sidewndr46 1y ago

Just wait until kids figure out you can run an emulator for an older desktop platform on a modern phone with ease

hopelite 1y ago

> What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? I doubt it unless something odd happens like triggering some reaction. They’ve looked at the data and see the majority of society using “phones”, which are really just increasingly small computers that happen to have a feature to also make calls; and they’ve decided that this trap they’re leading us all into can and may even need to stay open and inviting for a while anyways until the older people die off and desktop form factors kind of fall by the wayside, before the trap is even ready to be sprung. In the mean time they’ll just gaslight and lie about what they’re doing, to save and protect the children of course, until the day that you tune around from a distraction and the trap door is shut behind you. It’s the same MO as always, with the gullible and naive enablers being essentially the worse threat than the actual perpetrators.

cortesoft 1y ago

> This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. I think this is more an example of you misunderstanding the desires of the people pushing for this. They want to actually ban this content, they just know that is a harder sell than restricting to adults. So for them, making it harder or impossible to access the content is a feature, not a bug.