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OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal prison. Oh and that's a personal risk -- you, the manager or executive in charge, and anyone else who is in the know on the transaction is now facing 20 years in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison if they don't immediately cease all communication and break off contact. Hence why they ghost you and remove your data from prod. It sucks, but I would do the same thing in that situation. Nobody should be expected to take that risk. That's why you have these experiences :(

thekingshorses 1y ago
Interesting. So if you want to delete FB account and all your data, all you have to do is VPN from Iran?
tgma 1y ago
This is partially true, but not the entirety of the story. There are blanket sanction waivers (General License) by OFAC to allow certain things. There's also the possibility to get an OFAC license (as GitHub did.) The real issue is there is little to no advantage (realistically no money to be gained from Iran) or even awareness (sometimes the cloud infrastructure bans Iran by default and you don't have enough users to even know that's the case to care.) The legal counsels would generally be conservative and advise against it; there needs to be someone from the business side, e.g. a product manager that cares enough to try to push back on the legal. There often is not or it is hard to justify the tiniest risk, hence you block.
- number6 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - tgma 1y ago
    Where did I say or imply I am against sanctions on the Islamic Republic and/or its affiliates? I was simply describing the dynamic of how things like that get decided inside American companies.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    The Iranian government didn't delete his data.
    - lmz 1y ago
      Maybe he should keep his data with his government then.
  - trhway 1y ago
    >If the Iranian people are so upset, they should overthrow the government. I wonder how many civil actions, in full comfort and safety of your democratic country, you took part in, and what was the result of it.
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  This kind of assumes Microsoft has not already tried to get an exception, or that its legal team considers it likely that an exception will be granted. Various tools hosted on Github can be considered dual-use (i.e. AES/TLS libraries). Furthermore, Microsoft was made to apply sanctions against Karim Khan of the ICC for his involvement in investigating the genocide of Palestinians; I doubt Microsoft would be granted an exception so they can serve Hamas' greatest supporter after that. I don't know if Microsoft has applied for any exceptions, but even if they did, I doubt they'd be able to get them. That's on top of the probability of bad publicity ("Microsoft wants to cut deal with Iran") and the lack of incentive you mentioned.
  - tgma 1y ago
    I explicitly mentioned GitHub, a Microsoft subsidiary, did in fact get an OFAC license. I was suggesting them as an example of how it can be done, not the other way around.
  - rswail 1y ago
    > I doubt Microsoft would be granted an exception so they can serve Hamas' greatest supporter after that. "greatest"? Hardly. A charge was brought before the ICC from South Africa which required the ICC to investigate. There are much bigger supporters of Hamas, the sanctions against employees of the ICC is just the current US government flexing its retribution muscles.
    - bawolff 1y ago
      This is a bit of a tangent, but its a pet peve of mine You are mixing up ICC and ICJ. South Africa brought a case to the ICJ. This is the country equivalent of suing another country so its not really forcing ICJ to investigate so much as south africa is presenting a case which icj will decide on (eventually anyways, icj is famous for being slow). The ICC on the other hand makes its own decisions on who to investigate/charge. Countries can file referrals to it, but the ICC prosecutor has discretion on what they want to investigate and pursue. [Anyone who thinks the ICC likes hamas should remember that the icc also filed charges against a hamas leader too. Its difficult for them to investigate hamas because they are only allowed to charge people who are currently alive]
- underdeserver 1y ago
  From Wikipedia: The Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) is a financial intelligence and enforcement agency of the United States Treasury Department. It administers and enforces economic and trade sanctions in support of U.S. national security and foreign policy objectives.
notjosh 1y ago
your comment is helpful context, especially as a foreigner. but would you be able to edit the "pounding in the ass" phrase out in future when referring to prison? thank you <3
- adastra22 1y ago
  Your comment is understandable as a foreigner! Look up our federal prison system sometime. The description is apt. You either kill someone, or become someone's bitch on the first day, then you'll be alright. (It's an Office Space reference, btw, but our prisons are genuinely inhumane and not rehabilitative.)
  - pbiggar 1y ago
    It's the phrasing. You're using a fun and casual term for something awful. You are correct about the amount of sexual assault in American prison of course.
    - stavros 1y ago
      Hmm, I didn't get either a fun or a casual vibe from "pounding in the ass", I'm surprised you did.
      - garbagewoman 1y ago
        You do seem pretty nonchalant about rape, though. Maybe think on that for a bit.
        stavros 1y ago
        Yeah I'm not sure where you're getting all that stuff from, but I'm sure it's 100% you.
  - theshrike79 1y ago
    American prisoners are, if you look at it objectively, slaves. They are forced to work for for-profit companies for minimal pay, which is deducted by their living expenses and basic amenities.
bibelo 1y ago
Very relevant info I was not aware of So should we (people outside US) sanction these companies, so that they put the same pressure on US government to stop forcing them from applying sanctions?
- adastra22 1y ago
  If you want to, sure. Kind of a side point, but that's not really what sanctions are for. It's more of an economic blockade, which stymies the growth of the country. Even if there is no regime change, it makes the country less of a threat over time.
- pjc50 1y ago
  I'd choose more carefully which fight you want to pick at the moment, tbh. There's a very long list of unreasonable behaviors to complain about.
- nurettin 1y ago
  Like these EU fines? * May 22, 2023, Meta €1.2 billion. * July 22, 2024, Uber €290 million. * April 23, 2025, Apple €500 million. * September 4, 2025, Google €2.95 billion.
vasco 1y ago
In all of these situations if you want to do the right thing you need plausible deniability. Network block IPs from Iran, don't block VPNs, done, users from sanctioned countries can use your software but you're also going by the rule.
- adastra22 1y ago
  And that's generally what people do. Make a best effort, and then it is "don't ask, don't tell." Unless you have specific KYC rules in your industry.
- aussieguy1234 1y ago
  This also has plausible deniability on the other side. If Iranian government thugs question a citizens VPN use to access subversive content (women's rights, LGBT content?), they can say it was to evade US sanctions, wether true or not.
jbm 1y ago
I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.
- danlitt 1y ago
  Does that affect the reasoning? Even though I think it is profoundly wrong, I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about.
  - 47282847 1y ago
    > nobody is going to care about Obviously untrue. Iran has 90 million citizens, and multitudes of that number do care out of principle. I am not trying to change your mind, but hope you would be more precise in your language next time to describe why you don’t care.
    - lucianbr 1y ago
      Sounds more like "nobody I care about is going to care about", which seems rather reasonable and eminently human. But maybe a useful increase in precision.
      - danlitt 1y ago
        Rather "nobody with power is going to care".
    - danlitt 1y ago
      Who said I don't care? I care a lot, I just don't care more than I care about staying out of federal prison. It would be one thing if you'd be carrying the torch and the public would be behind you if only you'd be so courageous. But that is a naive fantasy: I know, and you know, that you'd be hounded as a "terrorist", they would throw the book at you and throw away the key. Approximately 0.01% of your fellow citizens would even understand the issue, let alone be on your side. Petition for change, sure. Complain in public. Protest. But don't martyr yourself for nothing.
Oleh_h 1y ago
Yeah, that's what sanctions do — making pressure on everyone in the country (from the authorities to the usual people).
chabska 1y ago
> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights. If you apply the same standard to the North Korean citizens, that they should not be expected to "take that risk", they your country's sanctions are pure collective punishment with no strategic value. You just tortured people for fun.
- nashashmi 1y ago
  > with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Is this really a US endeavor by policy?
  - nemomarx 1y ago
    It's the occasionally given justification for embargos on Cuba, Sanctions on North Korea, etc. Whether you believe it's the real reason is a different question.
    - nashashmi 1y ago
      Unbelievable that causing unrest in other countries is an official declared policy.
- bradlys 1y ago
  Who is "you"? The US government doesn't reflect the majority of Americans, at all. It reflects capital interests - which the majority of Americans are not. Majority of Americans are laborers.
  - Xelbair 1y ago
    it was voted in by majority, no matter what mental gymnastics you do. People either voted, or decided that their vote was worthless enough.
piokoch 1y ago
It's year 2025. You just open company in Brazil or Argentina and you can purchase whatever you want. Before 1989 communistic countries were overcoming CoCom restrictions in this way. Russia is doing this successfully since 2014. Surely Iran, North Korea are doing the same, this is really a no brainer and today and it is not even hard or costly, as nobody needs to physically travel, money transfers go through Kaiman, Netherlands Antilles, City of London Corp., etc. Nobody is able to track them. More. Nobody even tries to hide anymore. Germany is openly purchasing Russian oil, branded as "Kazakhstani", through Druzba pipe. The Netherlands is buying Russian gasoline branded as "Indian". France is buying Russian LNG and it is not event trying to pretend that it is not Russian. We will wait very long for those who will pay this $1M fine or go to prison.
- varjag 1y ago
  Germany is not purchasing Russian oil. The only two EU states doing so are Hungary and Slovakia and both have vocally pro-Russian governments.
  - michtzik 1y ago
    Your parent comment is correct. Germany buys millions of tons of "Kazakh" oil via the Druzhba pipeline, arriving at the PCK refinery in Schwedt. This oil is "blended" with Russian oil, and in any case is transported by Russia. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kazakhstans-january-july-oil-exports-germany-jump-38-2025-08-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kazakhstans-january-...
    - varjag 1y ago
      Most of the oil from Kazakhstan is transported via the Caspian pipeline. Druzhba had been defunct for couple of months too. I think some figures of Kazakh oil imports from Russia would be in order.
      - michtzik 1y ago
        Here's a news story about how Druzhba supplies to Germany weren't particularly interrupted by recent attacks you may be alluding to: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-kazakh-oil-imports-only-briefly-disrupted-by-druzhba-pipeline-attacks-2025-08-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-kazakh-oil-... And here's KazTransoil themselves reporting how much they supplied through Druzhba recently: https://www.interfax.kz/?int_id=21&lang=eng&news_id=75303 https://www.interfax.kz/?int_id=21&lang=eng&news_id=75303 > ASTANA. Sept 4 (Interfax-Kazakhstan) - The volume of Kazakh oil transportation to Germany via the Druzhba pipeline system in August of this year amounted to 190,000 tonnes, which is 18.7% higher than the level of July 2025, Interfax-Kazakhstan was informed by the national company KazTransOil (KTO).
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bambax 1y ago
> in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison Ha ha ha, it's so funny and harmless to make fun of people in prison, because they all deserve it, right? And the US is a free country? Sorry but this just makes me incredibly angry.
- pessimizer 1y ago
  It's simply bizarre that dreams of US "justice" involve interracial homosexual rape fantasies. Of course the interracial part that creeps in is a reminder that the US is not free. It still hasn't paid for hundreds of years of hard forced labor from many individuals. The guilt from this causes it to act strangely.
  - lazide 1y ago
    If this is the weirdest thing involving the US you’re aware of right now, I’d highly recommend continuing to ignore the news.
    - pessimizer 1y ago
      You seem to love your television. I'm a middle-aged black American, I don't think Jimmy Kimmel and tariffs are worse than the what slavery and the US justice system has done to black people. I can understand if you're worried about your favorite programs being disrupted, though.
      - bambax 1y ago
        The difference is, slavery is supposed to be over? And freedom of speech is supposed to be the law of the land?
      - lazide 1y ago
        If you’re a black American and you think tariffs and Jimmy Kimmel (as in the individual, not what the ‘system’ being aimed at him is) is what I’m talking about, I’m really shocked. Do you remember what happened the last time the FBI, CIA, etc. got used the way it is now? Hint: several high profile black Americans got assassinated. Among other crazy others.
andrepd 1y ago
> the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal prison. Oh and that's a personal risk -- you, the manager or executive in charge, and anyone else who is in the know on the transaction is now facing 20 years in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison If only this notion of personal criminal responsibility was applied to other types of private company criminality (2008 gfc, cartelization in many industries, the many private data "leaks", ...)
- lazide 1y ago
  That’s because in one case you’re doing something the gov’t doesn’t like, in the other…
- lucianbr 1y ago
  This was my thought too. When the government really wants corporations to toe the line, suddenly there's no problem with "piercing the corporate veil" and other such equivocations. They know what works - threaten executives with prison. The solution exists and is applied already. For other things such as polluting the environment or misusing citizens private data... the truth is government doesn't really care.
  - Sebb767 1y ago
    > They know what works - threaten executives with prison. The problem is that it works too well. As you can clearly see, the solution basically everyone individually applies is to stay clear of anything that might be an issue by several miles. If you apply the same reasoning to things like private data handling, little things like just shipping stuff will be prohibitively expensive, as no one will want to handle private data like addresses and instead go to a provider, which will need excessive amounts of cash and red tape to do anything for taking on that liability. Building stuff will become impossible, as all of the current red tape will be exponentially expanded with liability checks against any possible pollution. Founding a company will basically never happen, because no one wants to risk 20+ years in jail - and if they do, they'll simply turn to crime, because if your risk profile is that off anyway, not paying taxes will just be a minuscule risk increase. I'm not saying that there's no political incentive to ignore those issues and keep fines low, but piercing the corporate veil is the nuclear option and there is a reason it's used so little.
rimprobablyly 1y ago
Could your comment to the op be classed as "transacting with a sanctioned individual?"
- adastra22 1y ago
  No, there is no commercial transaction here. You might say “neither is GitHub benefiting from a non-paying Iranian customer” but it is at least not 100% clear on the latter case. GitHub, as a business, benefits from non-paying users & their data.
orphea 1y ago
> Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. With Iranians or residents (currently located) in Iran? This is an important distinction. Edited for clarity (thanks bloak)
- bloak 1y ago
  "Residency" is a very slippery concept. "Currently located in" would be clearer, though you probably wouldn't want to include diplomatic staff ... or would you?
garbagewoman 1y ago
I love how your smarmy tone matches the responses he got down to the letter
potato3732842 1y ago
Nobody who hasn't very a) clearly done wrong or b) actually chooses to fight the feds in court actually going to prison though. It's just a threat the fedcops get to use to force you to take a plea deal. It's basically a big boy version of how your local prosecutor behaves. Instead of filing BS charges that will never stick in an attempt to "mark it up to mark it down", the fedcops are more equal so they have Every time you see someone on HN screeching about how we ought to have federal regulation and stiff penalties for whatever their pet issue is remember that this is what that looks like.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
I think sanctions are pointless. Just do business with Iran as usual, but use the money earned to take out the ayatollah and his revolutionary guard. Or give that money to Israel to do the job.
- H8crilA 1y ago
  Taking out a regime is easy. Every occupation of Afghanistan in history has been prematurely terminated mere moments before achieving its goal :(
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
    Afghanistan is a special story. The previous Iran regime was taken out easily.
- sporkxrocket 1y ago
  We should be sanctioning Israel, not giving them even more money.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - sporkxrocket 1y ago
      That’s very Islamaphobic.
      - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 1y ago
        We ban accounts for religious flamewar, regardless of which religion they have a problem with. Here is an example from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45377645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45377645. I'm not going to ban you right now because you have a long history here, most of which hasn't been like this. But please don't post like this in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Obscurity4340 1y ago
Its kind of weird how every time some executive or company gets exposed as having done some horrible or massively illegal thing, they can never be punished cuz its a business but right here there are direct penalties that apply regardless. If only they applied something like this to the rest of the corporate world, companies would be far better behaved and polite
hrbsoscbfo 1y ago
I worked at a place where we tried hiring an Iranian. Ignorant of the law, some of us were surprised when the legal department pulled the plug on the whole process. I was kind of surprised by the whole thing because he was currently employed at another company. We went so far in the process that he quit his other job and we had him in the office for his first day of work, had a big lunch with him and everything. We fucked him on that.
- adastra22 1y ago
  You had him in the office? So he was in the US on a legal permit? Then IANAL but I think your legal dept fucked up. I know many Iranians working here in Silicon Valley. They have refugee permits and are 100% legal workers. Unless you are in defense tech or something which has stricter employment laws, your company did overreact.
snickerdoodle14 1y ago
It's pretty hilarious how the americans have corporate personhood so businesses can pretend to be people when it suits them, to shield their workers from the law. But of course this veil can be pierced when it suits the administration, but not when it'd positively benefit the life of american citizens.
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- deleted 1y ago
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sidewndr46 1y ago
"you, the manager or executive in charge" Let's be realistic here. There are no executives or board members who faced charges for prohibited transactions with Iran or NK. It's not like we don't have a steady stream of companies reporting that they inadvertently hired NK citizens remotely.
N_Lens 1y ago
Just a casual “pound-me-in-the-ass prison” top comment on HN (no this type of prison isn’t civilized or the mark of a mature criminal justice system or society).
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  You have to figure out how to make Americans stop feeling schadenfreude. They love the idea that these thugs/criminals in prison are being subjected to such conditions. The cruelty is the point. We simply love to inflict pain and suffering. This is why we circumcise, why we ear crop, tail dock, create animals, put people in solitary, etc.
- fennecbutt 1y ago
  Totally agree. But tbf you look at modern media and these things are still perpetuated. Just look at violence done on camera and off camera in TV shows and to whom. Which jokes are made and about whom - many don't even notice because it's so acceptable to treat a class, gender, etc a certain way that it doesn't even cross anybody's mind.
  - true_religion 1y ago
    To be actually fair, the notion that OP's comment was referring to only men is entirely left to the reader to decide. Women can be SA'd in prison by other prisoners, and additionally have to contend with the petty humiliations from guards taking unnecessary sexual turns that they wouldn't with men.
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      The specific turn of phrase used is an idiom stemming from a pop culture reference. I doubt it's meant in a gendered way. Nor should a description of prison SA be considered an endorsement.
    - jari_mustonen 1y ago
      There are sexual predators that do pray on men and the sadistic types probably find their way to prison guards.
fennecbutt 1y ago
Do we have to still use the phrase "pounding-in-the-ass" when the general sense of it has been proven untrue and not particularly as common as people would think. I guess rape jokes are just funny when they're about certain people. Same thing with "sod" still being in common usage. Pretty bizarre to be allowed to get married in some countries now but there's still all these historical bits and pieces.
xg15 1y ago
Interesting to get to know this, even as a non-Iranian. Even more with Trump's current push to sanction the ICC.

thekingshorses 1y ago

Interesting. So if you want to delete FB account and all your data, all you have to do is VPN from Iran?

tgma 1y ago

This is partially true, but not the entirety of the story. There are blanket sanction waivers (General License) by OFAC to allow certain things. There's also the possibility to get an OFAC license (as GitHub did.) The real issue is there is little to no advantage (realistically no money to be gained from Iran) or even awareness (sometimes the cloud infrastructure bans Iran by default and you don't have enough users to even know that's the case to care.) The legal counsels would generally be conservative and advise against it; there needs to be someone from the business side, e.g. a product manager that cares enough to try to push back on the legal. There often is not or it is hard to justify the tiniest risk, hence you block.

number6 1y ago
[flagged]
- tgma 1y ago
  Where did I say or imply I am against sanctions on the Islamic Republic and/or its affiliates? I was simply describing the dynamic of how things like that get decided inside American companies.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  The Iranian government didn't delete his data.
  - lmz 1y ago
    Maybe he should keep his data with his government then.
- trhway 1y ago
  >If the Iranian people are so upset, they should overthrow the government. I wonder how many civil actions, in full comfort and safety of your democratic country, you took part in, and what was the result of it.
jeroenhd 1y ago
This kind of assumes Microsoft has not already tried to get an exception, or that its legal team considers it likely that an exception will be granted. Various tools hosted on Github can be considered dual-use (i.e. AES/TLS libraries). Furthermore, Microsoft was made to apply sanctions against Karim Khan of the ICC for his involvement in investigating the genocide of Palestinians; I doubt Microsoft would be granted an exception so they can serve Hamas' greatest supporter after that. I don't know if Microsoft has applied for any exceptions, but even if they did, I doubt they'd be able to get them. That's on top of the probability of bad publicity ("Microsoft wants to cut deal with Iran") and the lack of incentive you mentioned.
- tgma 1y ago
  I explicitly mentioned GitHub, a Microsoft subsidiary, did in fact get an OFAC license. I was suggesting them as an example of how it can be done, not the other way around.
- rswail 1y ago
  > I doubt Microsoft would be granted an exception so they can serve Hamas' greatest supporter after that. "greatest"? Hardly. A charge was brought before the ICC from South Africa which required the ICC to investigate. There are much bigger supporters of Hamas, the sanctions against employees of the ICC is just the current US government flexing its retribution muscles.
  - bawolff 1y ago
    This is a bit of a tangent, but its a pet peve of mine You are mixing up ICC and ICJ. South Africa brought a case to the ICJ. This is the country equivalent of suing another country so its not really forcing ICJ to investigate so much as south africa is presenting a case which icj will decide on (eventually anyways, icj is famous for being slow). The ICC on the other hand makes its own decisions on who to investigate/charge. Countries can file referrals to it, but the ICC prosecutor has discretion on what they want to investigate and pursue. [Anyone who thinks the ICC likes hamas should remember that the icc also filed charges against a hamas leader too. Its difficult for them to investigate hamas because they are only allowed to charge people who are currently alive]
underdeserver 1y ago
From Wikipedia: The Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) is a financial intelligence and enforcement agency of the United States Treasury Department. It administers and enforces economic and trade sanctions in support of U.S. national security and foreign policy objectives.

notjosh 1y ago

your comment is helpful context, especially as a foreigner. but would you be able to edit the "pounding in the ass" phrase out in future when referring to prison? thank you <3

adastra22 1y ago
Your comment is understandable as a foreigner! Look up our federal prison system sometime. The description is apt. You either kill someone, or become someone's bitch on the first day, then you'll be alright. (It's an Office Space reference, btw, but our prisons are genuinely inhumane and not rehabilitative.)
- pbiggar 1y ago
  It's the phrasing. You're using a fun and casual term for something awful. You are correct about the amount of sexual assault in American prison of course.
  - stavros 1y ago
    Hmm, I didn't get either a fun or a casual vibe from "pounding in the ass", I'm surprised you did.
    - garbagewoman 1y ago
      You do seem pretty nonchalant about rape, though. Maybe think on that for a bit.
      - stavros 1y ago
        Yeah I'm not sure where you're getting all that stuff from, but I'm sure it's 100% you.
- theshrike79 1y ago
  American prisoners are, if you look at it objectively, slaves. They are forced to work for for-profit companies for minimal pay, which is deducted by their living expenses and basic amenities.

bibelo 1y ago

Very relevant info I was not aware of So should we (people outside US) sanction these companies, so that they put the same pressure on US government to stop forcing them from applying sanctions?

adastra22 1y ago
If you want to, sure. Kind of a side point, but that's not really what sanctions are for. It's more of an economic blockade, which stymies the growth of the country. Even if there is no regime change, it makes the country less of a threat over time.
pjc50 1y ago
I'd choose more carefully which fight you want to pick at the moment, tbh. There's a very long list of unreasonable behaviors to complain about.
nurettin 1y ago
Like these EU fines? * May 22, 2023, Meta €1.2 billion. * July 22, 2024, Uber €290 million. * April 23, 2025, Apple €500 million. * September 4, 2025, Google €2.95 billion.

vasco 1y ago

In all of these situations if you want to do the right thing you need plausible deniability. Network block IPs from Iran, don't block VPNs, done, users from sanctioned countries can use your software but you're also going by the rule.

adastra22 1y ago
And that's generally what people do. Make a best effort, and then it is "don't ask, don't tell." Unless you have specific KYC rules in your industry.
aussieguy1234 1y ago
This also has plausible deniability on the other side. If Iranian government thugs question a citizens VPN use to access subversive content (women's rights, LGBT content?), they can say it was to evade US sanctions, wether true or not.

jbm 1y ago

I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.

danlitt 1y ago
Does that affect the reasoning? Even though I think it is profoundly wrong, I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about.
- 47282847 1y ago
  > nobody is going to care about Obviously untrue. Iran has 90 million citizens, and multitudes of that number do care out of principle. I am not trying to change your mind, but hope you would be more precise in your language next time to describe why you don’t care.
  - lucianbr 1y ago
    Sounds more like "nobody I care about is going to care about", which seems rather reasonable and eminently human. But maybe a useful increase in precision.
    - danlitt 1y ago
      Rather "nobody with power is going to care".
  - danlitt 1y ago
    Who said I don't care? I care a lot, I just don't care more than I care about staying out of federal prison. It would be one thing if you'd be carrying the torch and the public would be behind you if only you'd be so courageous. But that is a naive fantasy: I know, and you know, that you'd be hounded as a "terrorist", they would throw the book at you and throw away the key. Approximately 0.01% of your fellow citizens would even understand the issue, let alone be on your side. Petition for change, sure. Complain in public. Protest. But don't martyr yourself for nothing.

Oleh_h 1y ago

Yeah, that's what sanctions do — making pressure on everyone in the country (from the authorities to the usual people).

chabska 1y ago

> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights. If you apply the same standard to the North Korean citizens, that they should not be expected to "take that risk", they your country's sanctions are pure collective punishment with no strategic value. You just tortured people for fun.

nashashmi 1y ago
> with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Is this really a US endeavor by policy?
- nemomarx 1y ago
  It's the occasionally given justification for embargos on Cuba, Sanctions on North Korea, etc. Whether you believe it's the real reason is a different question.
  - nashashmi 1y ago
    Unbelievable that causing unrest in other countries is an official declared policy.
bradlys 1y ago
Who is "you"? The US government doesn't reflect the majority of Americans, at all. It reflects capital interests - which the majority of Americans are not. Majority of Americans are laborers.
- Xelbair 1y ago
  it was voted in by majority, no matter what mental gymnastics you do. People either voted, or decided that their vote was worthless enough.

piokoch 1y ago

It's year 2025. You just open company in Brazil or Argentina and you can purchase whatever you want. Before 1989 communistic countries were overcoming CoCom restrictions in this way. Russia is doing this successfully since 2014. Surely Iran, North Korea are doing the same, this is really a no brainer and today and it is not even hard or costly, as nobody needs to physically travel, money transfers go through Kaiman, Netherlands Antilles, City of London Corp., etc. Nobody is able to track them. More. Nobody even tries to hide anymore. Germany is openly purchasing Russian oil, branded as "Kazakhstani", through Druzba pipe. The Netherlands is buying Russian gasoline branded as "Indian". France is buying Russian LNG and it is not event trying to pretend that it is not Russian. We will wait very long for those who will pay this $1M fine or go to prison.

varjag 1y ago
Germany is not purchasing Russian oil. The only two EU states doing so are Hungary and Slovakia and both have vocally pro-Russian governments.
- michtzik 1y ago
  Your parent comment is correct. Germany buys millions of tons of "Kazakh" oil via the Druzhba pipeline, arriving at the PCK refinery in Schwedt. This oil is "blended" with Russian oil, and in any case is transported by Russia. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kazakhstans-january-july-oil-exports-germany-jump-38-2025-08-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kazakhstans-january-...
  - varjag 1y ago
    Most of the oil from Kazakhstan is transported via the Caspian pipeline. Druzhba had been defunct for couple of months too. I think some figures of Kazakh oil imports from Russia would be in order.
    - michtzik 1y ago
      Here's a news story about how Druzhba supplies to Germany weren't particularly interrupted by recent attacks you may be alluding to: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-kazakh-oil-imports-only-briefly-disrupted-by-druzhba-pipeline-attacks-2025-08-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-kazakh-oil-... And here's KazTransoil themselves reporting how much they supplied through Druzhba recently: https://www.interfax.kz/?int_id=21&lang=eng&news_id=75303 https://www.interfax.kz/?int_id=21&lang=eng&news_id=75303 > ASTANA. Sept 4 (Interfax-Kazakhstan) - The volume of Kazakh oil transportation to Germany via the Druzhba pipeline system in August of this year amounted to 190,000 tonnes, which is 18.7% higher than the level of July 2025, Interfax-Kazakhstan was informed by the national company KazTransOil (KTO).

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bambax 1y ago

> in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison Ha ha ha, it's so funny and harmless to make fun of people in prison, because they all deserve it, right? And the US is a free country? Sorry but this just makes me incredibly angry.

pessimizer 1y ago
It's simply bizarre that dreams of US "justice" involve interracial homosexual rape fantasies. Of course the interracial part that creeps in is a reminder that the US is not free. It still hasn't paid for hundreds of years of hard forced labor from many individuals. The guilt from this causes it to act strangely.
- lazide 1y ago
  If this is the weirdest thing involving the US you’re aware of right now, I’d highly recommend continuing to ignore the news.
  - pessimizer 1y ago
    You seem to love your television. I'm a middle-aged black American, I don't think Jimmy Kimmel and tariffs are worse than the what slavery and the US justice system has done to black people. I can understand if you're worried about your favorite programs being disrupted, though.
    - bambax 1y ago
      The difference is, slavery is supposed to be over? And freedom of speech is supposed to be the law of the land?
    - lazide 1y ago
      If you’re a black American and you think tariffs and Jimmy Kimmel (as in the individual, not what the ‘system’ being aimed at him is) is what I’m talking about, I’m really shocked. Do you remember what happened the last time the FBI, CIA, etc. got used the way it is now? Hint: several high profile black Americans got assassinated. Among other crazy others.

andrepd 1y ago

> the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal prison. Oh and that's a personal risk -- you, the manager or executive in charge, and anyone else who is in the know on the transaction is now facing 20 years in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison If only this notion of personal criminal responsibility was applied to other types of private company criminality (2008 gfc, cartelization in many industries, the many private data "leaks", ...)

lazide 1y ago
That’s because in one case you’re doing something the gov’t doesn’t like, in the other…
lucianbr 1y ago
This was my thought too. When the government really wants corporations to toe the line, suddenly there's no problem with "piercing the corporate veil" and other such equivocations. They know what works - threaten executives with prison. The solution exists and is applied already. For other things such as polluting the environment or misusing citizens private data... the truth is government doesn't really care.
- Sebb767 1y ago
  > They know what works - threaten executives with prison. The problem is that it works too well. As you can clearly see, the solution basically everyone individually applies is to stay clear of anything that might be an issue by several miles. If you apply the same reasoning to things like private data handling, little things like just shipping stuff will be prohibitively expensive, as no one will want to handle private data like addresses and instead go to a provider, which will need excessive amounts of cash and red tape to do anything for taking on that liability. Building stuff will become impossible, as all of the current red tape will be exponentially expanded with liability checks against any possible pollution. Founding a company will basically never happen, because no one wants to risk 20+ years in jail - and if they do, they'll simply turn to crime, because if your risk profile is that off anyway, not paying taxes will just be a minuscule risk increase. I'm not saying that there's no political incentive to ignore those issues and keep fines low, but piercing the corporate veil is the nuclear option and there is a reason it's used so little.

rimprobablyly 1y ago

Could your comment to the op be classed as "transacting with a sanctioned individual?"

adastra22 1y ago
No, there is no commercial transaction here. You might say “neither is GitHub benefiting from a non-paying Iranian customer” but it is at least not 100% clear on the latter case. GitHub, as a business, benefits from non-paying users & their data.

orphea 1y ago

> Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. With Iranians or residents (currently located) in Iran? This is an important distinction. Edited for clarity (thanks bloak)

bloak 1y ago
"Residency" is a very slippery concept. "Currently located in" would be clearer, though you probably wouldn't want to include diplomatic staff ... or would you?

garbagewoman 1y ago

I love how your smarmy tone matches the responses he got down to the letter

potato3732842 1y ago

Nobody who hasn't very a) clearly done wrong or b) actually chooses to fight the feds in court actually going to prison though. It's just a threat the fedcops get to use to force you to take a plea deal. It's basically a big boy version of how your local prosecutor behaves. Instead of filing BS charges that will never stick in an attempt to "mark it up to mark it down", the fedcops are more equal so they have Every time you see someone on HN screeching about how we ought to have federal regulation and stiff penalties for whatever their pet issue is remember that this is what that looks like.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago

I think sanctions are pointless. Just do business with Iran as usual, but use the money earned to take out the ayatollah and his revolutionary guard. Or give that money to Israel to do the job.

H8crilA 1y ago
Taking out a regime is easy. Every occupation of Afghanistan in history has been prematurely terminated mere moments before achieving its goal :(
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
  Afghanistan is a special story. The previous Iran regime was taken out easily.
sporkxrocket 1y ago
We should be sanctioning Israel, not giving them even more money.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - sporkxrocket 1y ago
    That’s very Islamaphobic.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 1y ago
        We ban accounts for religious flamewar, regardless of which religion they have a problem with. Here is an example from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45377645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45377645. I'm not going to ban you right now because you have a long history here, most of which hasn't been like this. But please don't post like this in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Obscurity4340 1y ago

Its kind of weird how every time some executive or company gets exposed as having done some horrible or massively illegal thing, they can never be punished cuz its a business but right here there are direct penalties that apply regardless. If only they applied something like this to the rest of the corporate world, companies would be far better behaved and polite

hrbsoscbfo 1y ago

I worked at a place where we tried hiring an Iranian. Ignorant of the law, some of us were surprised when the legal department pulled the plug on the whole process. I was kind of surprised by the whole thing because he was currently employed at another company. We went so far in the process that he quit his other job and we had him in the office for his first day of work, had a big lunch with him and everything. We fucked him on that.

adastra22 1y ago
You had him in the office? So he was in the US on a legal permit? Then IANAL but I think your legal dept fucked up. I know many Iranians working here in Silicon Valley. They have refugee permits and are 100% legal workers. Unless you are in defense tech or something which has stricter employment laws, your company did overreact.

snickerdoodle14 1y ago

It's pretty hilarious how the americans have corporate personhood so businesses can pretend to be people when it suits them, to shield their workers from the law. But of course this veil can be pierced when it suits the administration, but not when it'd positively benefit the life of american citizens.

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sidewndr46 1y ago

"you, the manager or executive in charge" Let's be realistic here. There are no executives or board members who faced charges for prohibited transactions with Iran or NK. It's not like we don't have a steady stream of companies reporting that they inadvertently hired NK citizens remotely.

N_Lens 1y ago

Just a casual “pound-me-in-the-ass prison” top comment on HN (no this type of prison isn’t civilized or the mark of a mature criminal justice system or society).

Der_Einzige 1y ago
You have to figure out how to make Americans stop feeling schadenfreude. They love the idea that these thugs/criminals in prison are being subjected to such conditions. The cruelty is the point. We simply love to inflict pain and suffering. This is why we circumcise, why we ear crop, tail dock, create animals, put people in solitary, etc.
fennecbutt 1y ago
Totally agree. But tbf you look at modern media and these things are still perpetuated. Just look at violence done on camera and off camera in TV shows and to whom. Which jokes are made and about whom - many don't even notice because it's so acceptable to treat a class, gender, etc a certain way that it doesn't even cross anybody's mind.
- true_religion 1y ago
  To be actually fair, the notion that OP's comment was referring to only men is entirely left to the reader to decide. Women can be SA'd in prison by other prisoners, and additionally have to contend with the petty humiliations from guards taking unnecessary sexual turns that they wouldn't with men.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    The specific turn of phrase used is an idiom stemming from a pop culture reference. I doubt it's meant in a gendered way. Nor should a description of prison SA be considered an endorsement.
  - jari_mustonen 1y ago
    There are sexual predators that do pray on men and the sadistic types probably find their way to prison guards.

fennecbutt 1y ago

Do we have to still use the phrase "pounding-in-the-ass" when the general sense of it has been proven untrue and not particularly as common as people would think. I guess rape jokes are just funny when they're about certain people. Same thing with "sod" still being in common usage. Pretty bizarre to be allowed to get married in some countries now but there's still all these historical bits and pieces.

xg15 1y ago

Interesting to get to know this, even as a non-Iranian. Even more with Trump's current push to sanction the ICC.