8 ms·

Rail travel is booming in America

121 points by martinpw 1y ago

tonetegeatinst 1y ago
I used to have to take the train to college and back home on breaks and it was nice trip. You can't bring a whole dorm and your closet, but a backpack and a bag for clothes are manageable. I always brought some bags of beef jerky and would watch the scenic view or listen to an audiobook. Just sitting on the train, enjoying my snack and watching nature was a nice way to pass time time.
- frankmatranga 1y ago
  Same here, Capital Region NY to NYC. Such a nicer trip than city road traffic.
raybb 1y ago
I heard that Caltrain toyed with the idea of partnering with waymo to get people to and from train stations more affordably but dang wouldn't it be nice if one of the ride hailing companies started offering shuttle type services to get you to the train station but while sharing with other people. Better bus coverage and reliability would be ideal but perhaps this could be used to help make the case in the mean time.
- cjensen 1y ago
  ACE Rail (from Stockton to San Jose) has an absolutely wonderful network of eight shuttle buses that meet the train when it arrives at the Great America station[1]. They fan out across most of the Silicon Valley so that there's no need to wait for a bus or make connections between buses. Every commuter rail line really should do this. Obviously Caltrain could not do this for every train, but how about some trains? [1] https://cdn.acerail.com/wp-content/uploads/ACE-Shuttle-Map-Sched-June-27-2016.pdf https://cdn.acerail.com/wp-content/uploads/ACE-Shuttle-Map-S...
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    Feeder buses are fairly standard in many transport systems.
- Vinnl 1y ago
  The Dutch railways have offered ridiculously cheap bicycle rentals by almost every station for years now, and it's so helpful. No need to plan travel times, just tap your card and go. Of course this also requires proper bicycle infrastructure to be available, but it shows how well this could work.
  - MassPikeMike 1y ago
    Bikes can work great for travelers aged from, say, 13 to 70 without much luggage. Not so great for travelers outside that age range, with more luggage, or with physical disabilities. I wonder what fraction of travelers falls into the latter category.
    - sour-taste 1y ago
      I agree standard bikes are a poor fit for luggage. There are cargo (e)bikes that can comfortably hold large bags (e.g. https://larryvsharry.com/products/ebullitt https://larryvsharry.com/products/ebullitt). They may make sense at major rail stations, but the logistics of keeping them in stock at the station would be hard, and of course this doesn't solve the infrastructure or physical disabilities/age problem.
    - jen20 1y ago
      While we're on that subject, there is a special place in hell for whoever decided to put stairs with the only backup option being the smallest, slowest lift known to man in St Pancras station. Such idiocy.
    - Vinnl 1y ago
      Yeah, that covers a significant portion of the population, leaving the roads less congested for those who can't use both that and e.g. a bus.
  - newyankee 1y ago
    It requires dense cities too unless most of the population is fit enough to cycle
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Better bus coverage and reliability would be ideal Busses seem suboptimal if you don’t need a driver. They’re too big. Peoples’ travel plans in space and time are naturally heterogenous; the less we force passengers to travel to and from stops or change their plans to match a schedule, the more people will ride.
  - JadeNB 1y ago
    Why would this be an issue with the driver? I don't mean that combatively; I really don't see it. It seems to me that any form of transit, autonomous or not, either runs on some sort of centrally controlled schedule subject to optimization, or can be summoned on demand, in which case it only works as long as not too many people use it (usually because of cost), or else it will lead to traffic congestion and worsen rather than improve traffic.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Why would this be an issue with the driver? Drivers are the dominant operating cost of a bus system, and they’re typically paid regardless of ridership. That means you have a minimum ridership per driver required to offset their cost. Bus systems thus size the bus and route to ensure that minimum ridership. That, in turn, requires aggregating demand, i.e. forcing people to change the places and times of their transit to line up with the bus’s. Analogous to lift and drag, the more you force people to change their schedules, the more you lose potential demand to alternatives. If you don’t have a driver, you can make your transports as big or small as you’d like. In rare cases, they’ll be bus sized. But most busses either aren’t consistently full or lose a lot of potential riders because their schedules and stops are inconvenient. A fleet of smaller vehicles sops up that demand without hauling around a bunch of dead mass off rush hour.
      - JadeNB 1y ago
        I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions, but I know that I haven't thought about it in detail and you obviously have. Thank you for the considered argument.
- Seattle3503 1y ago
  Ive wondered if more people would use trains if you bring your car with you. You skip the traffic, but you have your car at the destination.
  - bombcar 1y ago
    https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train Consistently one of the most sold-out and profitable routes.
    - Seattle3503 1y ago
      Nice!
  - hdgvhicv 1y ago
    Or you could just hire a car at the destination. If you need one.
    - Seattle3503 1y ago
      You'd need to do it to get to the train too. To someone who lives 45 min+ away that would be a lot.
      - hdgvhicv 1y ago
        You’d drive your own car. Sane as you would to the airport. Or to a motorrail station.
        Seattle3503 1y ago
        Where I live, overnight parking is $20-30 a day. For longer trips I'd imagine bringing your car is worth it. Especially if you are renting a car on the other end.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Sure - at $100/day. This cost adds up fast. Bringing my own minivan would have been a similar cost, and had a lot more space than the small car we were able to rent. Plus we could have left most of our baggage in the car since we didn't need it on the train.
jolux 1y ago
The Avelias are nice but the problem with the Acela hasn't been the rolling stock in a long time, it's that it can only reach top speed (~150mph) on a tiny portion of the track, mostly between Boston and Providence and some more in New Jersey. The rest of it, we're running proper high-speed trains at like 70mph, unfortunately. Fixing the alignment and upgrading the track is a kind of political nightmare that upgrading the trains just isn't.
- pkulak 1y ago
  The problem with every train is that it doesn't go faster. But Acela is already faster than driving, which is a benchmark no other train can match in North America. Probably faster, door-to-door, than flying, unless you ride its entire length.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    The Chicago El is faster than driving. BART may be too, depending on time of day. Is Brightline faster than driving? The new LA-Las Vegas line should be faster than driving, but it's not here yet.
    - pkulak 1y ago
      Sorry, I meant long distance train. DC metro and especially NYC are also both faster than driving.
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  Yep. What Metro North is doing is a travesty.
wkat4242 1y ago
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- righthand 1y ago
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- itsoktocry 1y ago
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- softwaredoug 1y ago
  They already blocked Caltrain funding meant to get closer to linking LA and SF
  - richwater 1y ago
    Give me a break. The Trump administration is a small part in that absolute boondoggle.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  > I don't really understand why because their main audience is rural people and those are the worst hit. For rail specifically: for rural Americans, passenger rail worth the name (aka what we get in Europe) is something that they see as unachievable, something for "librul city dwellers". When all they get from rail is noise and crossings blocked for hours [1], it's hardly a surprise that rail ends up being yet another culture war issue. > Ps can't read the article as it's paywalled Go to archive . today, enter the URL of a paywalled site, pass a CAPTCHA, off you go. It works with a bunch of popular news sites to bypass their paywalls, and for free but ad-infested, you'll get an ad-free experience. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/business/blocked-rail-crossings-congress.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/business/blocked-rail-cro...
  - threemux 1y ago
    It works on many sites, but the Economist has foiled it as far as I can tell. This one just shows the same snippet you'd get in a regular browser
martinpw 1y ago
Took Amtrak from LA to San Jose last week, which was a good experience. The train runs along the coast for a good stretch, from Ventura through Vandenberg and then through the hills. It's certainly not the fastest way to go (~10 hours) but you can leave in the morning, have a couple of sit down meals on the way, watch the world go by, work if necessary, and be in San Jose in the evening. Probably not something to do regularly, but a great occasional change from flying. Since Amtrak is often delayed due to freight having priority, traveling the other way is more risky from a scheduling point of view, since the train starts in Seattle and could already be heavily delayed by the time it gets to San Jose. https://www.amtrakvacations.com/travel-styles/famous-routes/coast-starlight https://www.amtrakvacations.com/travel-styles/famous-routes/...
- pkulak 1y ago
  > due to freight having priority Fun fact: by law, Amtrak has priority. Not that it matters much, even back when laws themselves mattered.
  - JadeNB 1y ago
    > Fun fact: by law, Amtrak has priority. Not that it matters much, even back when laws themselves mattered. Are you sure about that? I've never looked up the law, but my understanding is that, for most (all?) of its routes, Amtrak is running on privately owned track, and, on such track, freight has priority. (I'm surprised at the number of downvotes. The replies indicated that I'm wrong, which is awesome in the sense that I like riding Amtrak and want it to have priority, and so I understand the frustration; but I think that I cannot be the only one who has heard from every Amtrak rider they've talked to that freight has priority, and surely it's a good thing to seek an authoritative answer? Maybe it looked like I was rhetorically saying that someone was wrong rather than honestly seeking clarification.)
    - MBCook 1y ago
      Yep. Federal law requires passenger trains to get priority. But for some reason the government basically stopped enforcing it like 40 years ago. So in practice it tends to work the other way.
Teever 1y ago
I came across this video[0] a little while ago which gives a pretty in depth look at the efforts being made to modernize bridge and tunnel infrastructure in a crucial but small subsection of the American rail network. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yLzfNTrULg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yLzfNTrULg
- glitchcrab 1y ago
  I knew this would be the B1M just from your description. I’ve been a subscriber of theirs for quite some time now - they have some fascinating videos.
techblueberry 1y ago
If I never had to fly domestically again it would be too soon, high speed rail ftw!
- mothballed 1y ago
  Don't worry, if high-speed rail displaces flight they'll have the federal gropers jobs program for that too. Soon enough it will suck just as much as flying "for your security."
  - oblio 1y ago
    I recently saw that Canadian passenger railways have security checks and bag check-in just like airlines :-)) They're like aliens seeing humans preparing food but not understanding what taste is.
    - JadeNB 1y ago
      > I recently saw that Canadian passenger railways have security checks and bag check-in just like airlines :-)) It's probably harder to drive a train into something than it is to fly a plane into something, but a bomb on a train could do a lot of damage even if it wasn't as cinematic as a bomb on a plane. And, having traveled on Amtrak and seen what people try to cram in to the limited space available, it's not clear to me that some sort of baggage control is automatically a bad thing. (Don't get me wrong, I like not having to go through those airport-style controls, but it's a tragedy of the commons sort of thing, where abuse of it by a few renders it unpleasant for everyone.)
      - oblio 1y ago
        > but a bomb on a train could do a lot of damage even if it wasn't as cinematic as a bomb on a plane Same for a bus, tram, funicular, metro, ferry. At what point does the insanity stop? A crowded bus in Bucharest probably has 200 passengers and at peak times it could drive near stops and streets where hundreds, if not thousands of other people, are in a 100m radius.
einpoklum 1y ago
Access to Economist articles is not booming in America though :-(
softwaredoug 1y ago
There is a private train system in Florida that connects major cities. Sadly, my understanding is its financials are not great. Hopefully that changes. https://www.gobrightline.com/ https://www.gobrightline.com/
- dayofthedaleks 1y ago
  The engineering is not stellar either. 96% of the line's crossings are at grade. Those intersections are undersignaled with barriers that are easy to drive around. If you know anything about Florida drivers you won't be surprised to hear there have been 180 fatalities on Brightline since its inception in 2017.
  - hdgvhicv 1y ago
    No doubt the public blames the trains rather than the drivers
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    > you won't be surprised to hear there have been 180 fatalities on Brightline since its inception in 2017. ... Wait, _seriously_? That seems implausibly high, for one not-very-frequent train line. Are these just uncontrolled crossings, with no barriers, or something?
- umeshunni 1y ago
  They're also building the same thing between Las Vegas and SoCal: https://www.brightlinewest.com/ https://www.brightlinewest.com/ (un)surprisingly, this will be operational well before the California HSR (SF->LA) boondoggle.
  - inferiorhuman 1y ago
    (un)surprisingly, this will be operational well before the California HSR (SF->LA) boondoggle. Yeah, maybe. Even if Brightline succeeds in building something it's going to fall short of connecting LA to Vegas. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/11/nx-s1-5495584/brightline-west-high-speed-train-california-las-vegas https://www.npr.org/2025/09/11/nx-s1-5495584/brightline-west...
pkulak 1y ago
Whenever I go to the East coast, I make a point of finding some reason to ride Amtrak, preferably Acela. There's just something magical about staying anywhere between Boston and DC, and yet only being one relaxing, couple-hour trip away from central Manhattan, downtown Philly, etc. I wish the West Coast also had frequent service between Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, and points between. Driving and flying stresses me out and is generally an awful experience. When I arrive by train, I'm more relaxed than when I started.
- myvoiceismypass 1y ago
  It always floored me when I moved to the Bay Area that Caltrain from SJ to SF took about as long as Amtrak from Philly to NYC (twice the distance). I know they are different systems and electric Caltrain is faster, but still, it felt like a step back rail wise. Also, Amtrak out here stops running so ridiculously early, which is very frustrating.
  - jwagenet 1y ago
    Caltrain is a commuter rail and Amtrak is regional. Caltrain makes 15-20 stops between SF and San Jose. They aren’t the same sort of system at all. It’s like comparing Amtrak to Metro North.
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xnx 1y ago
I can't read the article. What does it say? It looks like Amtrak trips are up 7.5% since 2019 (https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=23182 https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=23182). Does that count as booming?
- brewdad 1y ago
  Relative to most other transit options that never fully recovered after COVID? Yes. Amtrak is even doing better than airlines.
  - xnx 1y ago
    Remote work and Zoom have reduced the demand for business travel flights. No one takes a train for business.
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      > No one takes a train for business. I mean surely that's a big part of what the Acela one is used for?
- tim333 1y ago
  https://archive.ph/BMTYP https://archive.ph/BMTYP
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
The low-hanging fruit is regional rail. Caltrain, LIRR, et cetera. That together with a robust metro system that links parking garages and airports is the realistic multi-modal transport we need. Too many rail projects seem to have been prosecuted by purists who are anti-car or anti-plane. That leads to bloat, or ignoring designs that would increase real ridership (e.g. adequate parking at endpoint, or RORO stock).
- chiph 1y ago
  The State of North Carolina runs several trains a day between Charlotte and Raleigh (The Piedmont). It runs along the same tracks as Amtrak's Carolinian. The Crescent, Palmetto, Silver Meteor and Floridian aren't focused on North Carolina but make stops in the state. I've ridden the Piedmont a couple of times and it's very convenient compared to driving, especially during inclement weather. Could it be better? Yes - especially in Charlotte where they have a half-completed station in Uptown while the current station is in a sketchy industrial area and isn't convenient for anyone. Once Charlotte Gateway station is completed it will link Amtrak service with local commuter rail and streetcar service (and bus/ride-share). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_(train) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_(train)
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Idk, America is littered with Park-and-ride stations with perpetually empty lots
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    Is the frequency and reliability of the attached rail service sufficient? Park and ride can work pretty well, but you do need a reliable rail service attached to it.
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      Though, also, the trouble with park and ride stations is that there's a very specific utilisation at which they work well. If they get too popular, that is also a problem.
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jackcosgrove 1y ago
I have investigated taking Amtrak for a family trip to do something different. "The journey is the destination" or something like that. I was branding it "slow travel" to the family so we could use it as a sort of modern life/digital detox. I also looked into a trans-Atlantic passage on the QM2. I'm sad to report that renting a family bedroom or two joined bedrooms on Amtrak to take a journey on say the California Zephyr didn't pencil out. It is costlier than flying (about $2000 vs $1600 at the low end for both options, resp.) Even if you account for the cost of staying two extra nights at the destination it about breaks even. With children I don't want to risk the days of travel becoming an ordeal as opposed to hours of flight time. The "digital detox" might quickly go sideways and require hours of screentime pacifiers. Maybe when they are older. Happily the QM2 actually made financial sense and there would be more room to move about and explore the ship. I think rail travel makes the most sense in the Acela context the article opened with - routes between cities that take less than a day. For cross-continent travel the time savings of air travel make rail travel a harder case to argue.
- nenenejej 1y ago
  Yes. Perhaps it makes more sense for people "travelling" i.e. exploring the world where the fact that it is a nights accommodation too makes it a savings and speed is not an issue.
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- bluGill 1y ago
  Depends on where you are going - for my family vacation a sleeper for 4 is cheaper than flying by a lot (i live in a high priced air travel city, I would money driving to chicago despite the higher parking costs). However I have 5 people going and so it does't work out. (It doesn't help that amtrak dosen't suggest options like 2 rooms) We went coach amtrak which was cheaper and more comfortable than flying. I'd do that again.
- manquer 1y ago
  The point of cross continent rail travel is not being cheaper than air at all, it is about seeing and enjoying the country and the route, there is no easier or cheaper way to do that. - A road trip would be both more expensive (fuel, hotels and maintenance/rental), strenuous and also less safe given the number of miles to be driven. - There is quite little to see in a cruise if not near a shore or on a plane flying at cruising altitudes well above the clouds. While times have changed and it is lot harder for parents now, I cannot help but remember growing up the number of cross country train trips just sitting at the window with nothing but a book/magazine or conversations with passengers and it was formative life experience even when quite young. It wasn't that long ago and my generation was just as addicted to tech but we were limited to doing that only on a desktop with a modem. --- If you want to see and show the kids to help them understand the size and complex geography and beauty of the country they will inherit despite what limited time screen distractions allow, I don't think there is any better way to do it.
heelix 1y ago
So funny enough, I'm sitting on a plane right now because the amtrak train was late, then announced a different trip number then what was on the ticket. No information on what was coming or leaving. It was a small city depot, but it was nothing like I've come to expect in Europe. The Chicago/Minneapolis ticket was cheap. Seats on the way up were comparable to first class. Wifi did not work on the way up. Did turn a couple hour journey into an all day affair. My kingdom for a bullet train like others have.
varenc 1y ago
Took the California Zephyr from Emeryville to Chicago and loved it! but 5x more expensive than flying for a private room...but an absolutely beautiful journey.
decafninja 1y ago
I needed to travel from NYC to Washington DC, specifically without driving. Sounded like a perfect case for Amtrak. Turns out flying was both cheaper and faster.
- amelius 1y ago
  You have to add comfort to the equation. And don't forget about TSA checks which can be stressful.
  - Uvix 1y ago
    And the stress of whether or not the airline will let your luggage on board with you.
  - decafninja 1y ago
    For a flight that lasts less than an hour, I didn’t find comfort or the TSA screening really much of a drag.
- MathMonkeyMan 1y ago
  I took the Acela from NYC to DC to visit a friend. It was expensive, but I wanted to try it. The interior of the cars was old and beat up. The tray in front of me didn't work. The bathroom door was borked and there was this persistent hint of a foul smell. The woman across the isle was bombed and clearly going through something, but before long she fell asleep and when she woke up was docile as a lamb. I've read that the main advantage of inter-metropolis rail travel is that you enter and exit in the middle of town. This helped for NYC and DC -- I took a short subway ride to Penn Station on the NYC side, and then walked from Union Station to my friend's house on the DC side. Rail is the most comfortable way to travel by far. If only it were cheaper and faster.
  - decafninja 1y ago
    The first half of your post seems to contradict your conclusion in the last sentence. Your first half would describe a pretty miserable trip for me. I’d gladly take TSA over what you described.
AaronAPU 1y ago
I really wish there was an auto train connecting the west and east sides of the country.
sehugg 1y ago
Notable is the recent introduction of Mardi Gras Service, a route from New Orleans from Mobile that hasn't been used for passenger trains since Hurricane Katrina. The maximum one-way fare is $15, and its already popular enough that they added 60 more seats. I'm looking forward to riding it and thumbing my nose in the direction of I-10.
eek2121 1y ago
Not here in TN. If it were, I'd be going places. I love trains, and even long train rides, regardless of the cost.
avlbk 1y ago
I've taken the Surfliner route (SB->LA) frequently while in college. Moving to NYC and taking the Acela (NYC to Boston) over 20 times, I have to say the east coast experience is amazing. The route is super popular with business travelers commuting to NYC or other major cities along the route. You show up, grab a seat, pop your laptop open, get some work done... wow you're at your destination. Hungry? Walk to the snack cart and grab a coffee or a beer, at a reasonable price.
- bfeynman 1y ago
  Amtrak is not reasonable prices compared to trains in like any other part of the world, except some parts of UK. Other than booking extremely early you're looking at 150$ plus tickets.
  - avlbk 1y ago
    Last minute can be a bit pricy. But Boston to NYC is 40-78 dollars. Bus is 40, and takes 2x longer, and uncomfortable. I can get 4 hours of work done. It's not Europe, but it's really a way nicer experience than I expected.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Last minute can be a bit pricy Which is genuinely infuriating when you subsequently board a half-empty train.
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      > Last minute can be a bit pricy. Which sucks for a public good. Imagine if roads worked this way (and no, surge pricing of express lanes don't count, since there's no discount for using it at the same time having booked it two months in advance). Or, like, water use.
      - rsynnott 1y ago
        This is, unfortunately, not just a US thing. Dublin to Cork is 20 eur if you book a few days in advance, 32 eur if you book same day, and, if you actually think you can just show up and pay _in the station_, 50 eur.
chipheat 1y ago
If you're looking for a paywall bypass, it's still paywalled under archive.today :( https://archive.ph/BMTYP https://archive.ph/BMTYP
neonate 1y ago
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mmmBacon 1y ago
The Surfliner in Southern California is a great deal. Take the business class ticket. OC to San Diego is a breeze and you can relax and enjoy all beach towns with a glass of wine. Took it from OC to Santa Barbara. It takes about an hour longer than driving but so worth it. Can’t say enough good things about it. Views in all directions totally amazing. Trains are packed at times but it’s good to see. I think high speed cross country rail travel is not very practical either to build or for travelers. The distances are too large, terrain too difficult and population densities are too low west of the Mississippi. It’s worth noting that the US train network is optimized for freight and we carry much more freight than many countries by rail. High population density corridors like BOS-NYC-PHL-DC and SB-LA-OC-SD make a lot of sense and would be great to see even better service. We are seeing a high-speed, private service building track between Ontario, CA and Las Vegas. Distances to Vegas and Phoenix are short enough and population densities high enough that it makes travel by train from SoCal competitive with driving and air.
nunez 1y ago
Amtrak is amazing, but it is horrendously slow outside of the NE corridor (due to freight priority) and routes that should exist don't (Dallas to Houston, Toronto to NYP diagonally across New York instead of via Albany). Apparently it takes 8h to do DFW to Little Rock despite this being a 6h trip by car. That's not great.
tug2024 1y ago
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tim333 1y ago
https://archive.ph/BMTYP https://archive.ph/BMTYP
tim333 1y ago
>...TikTok... Amtrak... Its posts can get hundreds of thousands of views. For me online addiction/enthusiasm has swung me towards trains. I'm fairly happy sitting there a while if I can do stuff online and get bored driving or doing airport faff.

121 points by martinpw 1y ago

I used to have to take the train to college and back home on breaks and it was nice trip. You can't bring a whole dorm and your closet, but a backpack and a bag for clothes are manageable. I always brought some bags of beef jerky and would watch the scenic view or listen to an audiobook. Just sitting on the train, enjoying my snack and watching nature was a nice way to pass time time.

frankmatranga 1y ago
Same here, Capital Region NY to NYC. Such a nicer trip than city road traffic.

raybb 1y ago

I heard that Caltrain toyed with the idea of partnering with waymo to get people to and from train stations more affordably but dang wouldn't it be nice if one of the ride hailing companies started offering shuttle type services to get you to the train station but while sharing with other people. Better bus coverage and reliability would be ideal but perhaps this could be used to help make the case in the mean time.

cjensen 1y ago
ACE Rail (from Stockton to San Jose) has an absolutely wonderful network of eight shuttle buses that meet the train when it arrives at the Great America station[1]. They fan out across most of the Silicon Valley so that there's no need to wait for a bus or make connections between buses. Every commuter rail line really should do this. Obviously Caltrain could not do this for every train, but how about some trains? [1] https://cdn.acerail.com/wp-content/uploads/ACE-Shuttle-Map-Sched-June-27-2016.pdf https://cdn.acerail.com/wp-content/uploads/ACE-Shuttle-Map-S...
- rsynnott 1y ago
  Feeder buses are fairly standard in many transport systems.
Vinnl 1y ago
The Dutch railways have offered ridiculously cheap bicycle rentals by almost every station for years now, and it's so helpful. No need to plan travel times, just tap your card and go. Of course this also requires proper bicycle infrastructure to be available, but it shows how well this could work.
- MassPikeMike 1y ago
  Bikes can work great for travelers aged from, say, 13 to 70 without much luggage. Not so great for travelers outside that age range, with more luggage, or with physical disabilities. I wonder what fraction of travelers falls into the latter category.
  - sour-taste 1y ago
    I agree standard bikes are a poor fit for luggage. There are cargo (e)bikes that can comfortably hold large bags (e.g. https://larryvsharry.com/products/ebullitt https://larryvsharry.com/products/ebullitt). They may make sense at major rail stations, but the logistics of keeping them in stock at the station would be hard, and of course this doesn't solve the infrastructure or physical disabilities/age problem.
  - jen20 1y ago
    While we're on that subject, there is a special place in hell for whoever decided to put stairs with the only backup option being the smallest, slowest lift known to man in St Pancras station. Such idiocy.
  - Vinnl 1y ago
    Yeah, that covers a significant portion of the population, leaving the roads less congested for those who can't use both that and e.g. a bus.
- newyankee 1y ago
  It requires dense cities too unless most of the population is fit enough to cycle
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Better bus coverage and reliability would be ideal Busses seem suboptimal if you don’t need a driver. They’re too big. Peoples’ travel plans in space and time are naturally heterogenous; the less we force passengers to travel to and from stops or change their plans to match a schedule, the more people will ride.
- JadeNB 1y ago
  Why would this be an issue with the driver? I don't mean that combatively; I really don't see it. It seems to me that any form of transit, autonomous or not, either runs on some sort of centrally controlled schedule subject to optimization, or can be summoned on demand, in which case it only works as long as not too many people use it (usually because of cost), or else it will lead to traffic congestion and worsen rather than improve traffic.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Why would this be an issue with the driver? Drivers are the dominant operating cost of a bus system, and they’re typically paid regardless of ridership. That means you have a minimum ridership per driver required to offset their cost. Bus systems thus size the bus and route to ensure that minimum ridership. That, in turn, requires aggregating demand, i.e. forcing people to change the places and times of their transit to line up with the bus’s. Analogous to lift and drag, the more you force people to change their schedules, the more you lose potential demand to alternatives. If you don’t have a driver, you can make your transports as big or small as you’d like. In rare cases, they’ll be bus sized. But most busses either aren’t consistently full or lose a lot of potential riders because their schedules and stops are inconvenient. A fleet of smaller vehicles sops up that demand without hauling around a bunch of dead mass off rush hour.
    - JadeNB 1y ago
      I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions, but I know that I haven't thought about it in detail and you obviously have. Thank you for the considered argument.
Seattle3503 1y ago
Ive wondered if more people would use trains if you bring your car with you. You skip the traffic, but you have your car at the destination.
- bombcar 1y ago
  https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train Consistently one of the most sold-out and profitable routes.
  - Seattle3503 1y ago
    Nice!
- hdgvhicv 1y ago
  Or you could just hire a car at the destination. If you need one.
  - Seattle3503 1y ago
    You'd need to do it to get to the train too. To someone who lives 45 min+ away that would be a lot.
    - hdgvhicv 1y ago
      You’d drive your own car. Sane as you would to the airport. Or to a motorrail station.
      - Seattle3503 1y ago
        Where I live, overnight parking is $20-30 a day. For longer trips I'd imagine bringing your car is worth it. Especially if you are renting a car on the other end.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Sure - at $100/day. This cost adds up fast. Bringing my own minivan would have been a similar cost, and had a lot more space than the small car we were able to rent. Plus we could have left most of our baggage in the car since we didn't need it on the train.

jolux 1y ago

The Avelias are nice but the problem with the Acela hasn't been the rolling stock in a long time, it's that it can only reach top speed (~150mph) on a tiny portion of the track, mostly between Boston and Providence and some more in New Jersey. The rest of it, we're running proper high-speed trains at like 70mph, unfortunately. Fixing the alignment and upgrading the track is a kind of political nightmare that upgrading the trains just isn't.

pkulak 1y ago
The problem with every train is that it doesn't go faster. But Acela is already faster than driving, which is a benchmark no other train can match in North America. Probably faster, door-to-door, than flying, unless you ride its entire length.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  The Chicago El is faster than driving. BART may be too, depending on time of day. Is Brightline faster than driving? The new LA-Las Vegas line should be faster than driving, but it's not here yet.
  - pkulak 1y ago
    Sorry, I meant long distance train. DC metro and especially NYC are also both faster than driving.
inferiorhuman 1y ago
Yep. What Metro North is doing is a travesty.

wkat4242 1y ago

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righthand 1y ago
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itsoktocry 1y ago
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softwaredoug 1y ago
They already blocked Caltrain funding meant to get closer to linking LA and SF
- richwater 1y ago
  Give me a break. The Trump administration is a small part in that absolute boondoggle.
mschuster91 1y ago
> I don't really understand why because their main audience is rural people and those are the worst hit. For rail specifically: for rural Americans, passenger rail worth the name (aka what we get in Europe) is something that they see as unachievable, something for "librul city dwellers". When all they get from rail is noise and crossings blocked for hours [1], it's hardly a surprise that rail ends up being yet another culture war issue. > Ps can't read the article as it's paywalled Go to archive . today, enter the URL of a paywalled site, pass a CAPTCHA, off you go. It works with a bunch of popular news sites to bypass their paywalls, and for free but ad-infested, you'll get an ad-free experience. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/business/blocked-rail-crossings-congress.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/business/blocked-rail-cro...
- threemux 1y ago
  It works on many sites, but the Economist has foiled it as far as I can tell. This one just shows the same snippet you'd get in a regular browser

martinpw 1y ago

Took Amtrak from LA to San Jose last week, which was a good experience. The train runs along the coast for a good stretch, from Ventura through Vandenberg and then through the hills. It's certainly not the fastest way to go (~10 hours) but you can leave in the morning, have a couple of sit down meals on the way, watch the world go by, work if necessary, and be in San Jose in the evening. Probably not something to do regularly, but a great occasional change from flying. Since Amtrak is often delayed due to freight having priority, traveling the other way is more risky from a scheduling point of view, since the train starts in Seattle and could already be heavily delayed by the time it gets to San Jose. https://www.amtrakvacations.com/travel-styles/famous-routes/coast-starlight https://www.amtrakvacations.com/travel-styles/famous-routes/...

pkulak 1y ago
> due to freight having priority Fun fact: by law, Amtrak has priority. Not that it matters much, even back when laws themselves mattered.
- JadeNB 1y ago
  > Fun fact: by law, Amtrak has priority. Not that it matters much, even back when laws themselves mattered. Are you sure about that? I've never looked up the law, but my understanding is that, for most (all?) of its routes, Amtrak is running on privately owned track, and, on such track, freight has priority. (I'm surprised at the number of downvotes. The replies indicated that I'm wrong, which is awesome in the sense that I like riding Amtrak and want it to have priority, and so I understand the frustration; but I think that I cannot be the only one who has heard from every Amtrak rider they've talked to that freight has priority, and surely it's a good thing to seek an authoritative answer? Maybe it looked like I was rhetorically saying that someone was wrong rather than honestly seeking clarification.)
  - MBCook 1y ago
    Yep. Federal law requires passenger trains to get priority. But for some reason the government basically stopped enforcing it like 40 years ago. So in practice it tends to work the other way.

Teever 1y ago

I came across this video[0] a little while ago which gives a pretty in depth look at the efforts being made to modernize bridge and tunnel infrastructure in a crucial but small subsection of the American rail network. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yLzfNTrULg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yLzfNTrULg

glitchcrab 1y ago
I knew this would be the B1M just from your description. I’ve been a subscriber of theirs for quite some time now - they have some fascinating videos.

techblueberry 1y ago

If I never had to fly domestically again it would be too soon, high speed rail ftw!

mothballed 1y ago
Don't worry, if high-speed rail displaces flight they'll have the federal gropers jobs program for that too. Soon enough it will suck just as much as flying "for your security."
- oblio 1y ago
  I recently saw that Canadian passenger railways have security checks and bag check-in just like airlines :-)) They're like aliens seeing humans preparing food but not understanding what taste is.
  - JadeNB 1y ago
    > I recently saw that Canadian passenger railways have security checks and bag check-in just like airlines :-)) It's probably harder to drive a train into something than it is to fly a plane into something, but a bomb on a train could do a lot of damage even if it wasn't as cinematic as a bomb on a plane. And, having traveled on Amtrak and seen what people try to cram in to the limited space available, it's not clear to me that some sort of baggage control is automatically a bad thing. (Don't get me wrong, I like not having to go through those airport-style controls, but it's a tragedy of the commons sort of thing, where abuse of it by a few renders it unpleasant for everyone.)
    - oblio 1y ago
      > but a bomb on a train could do a lot of damage even if it wasn't as cinematic as a bomb on a plane Same for a bus, tram, funicular, metro, ferry. At what point does the insanity stop? A crowded bus in Bucharest probably has 200 passengers and at peak times it could drive near stops and streets where hundreds, if not thousands of other people, are in a 100m radius.

einpoklum 1y ago

Access to Economist articles is not booming in America though :-(

softwaredoug 1y ago

There is a private train system in Florida that connects major cities. Sadly, my understanding is its financials are not great. Hopefully that changes. https://www.gobrightline.com/ https://www.gobrightline.com/

dayofthedaleks 1y ago
The engineering is not stellar either. 96% of the line's crossings are at grade. Those intersections are undersignaled with barriers that are easy to drive around. If you know anything about Florida drivers you won't be surprised to hear there have been 180 fatalities on Brightline since its inception in 2017.
- hdgvhicv 1y ago
  No doubt the public blames the trains rather than the drivers
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > you won't be surprised to hear there have been 180 fatalities on Brightline since its inception in 2017. ... Wait, _seriously_? That seems implausibly high, for one not-very-frequent train line. Are these just uncontrolled crossings, with no barriers, or something?
umeshunni 1y ago
They're also building the same thing between Las Vegas and SoCal: https://www.brightlinewest.com/ https://www.brightlinewest.com/ (un)surprisingly, this will be operational well before the California HSR (SF->LA) boondoggle.
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  (un)surprisingly, this will be operational well before the California HSR (SF->LA) boondoggle. Yeah, maybe. Even if Brightline succeeds in building something it's going to fall short of connecting LA to Vegas. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/11/nx-s1-5495584/brightline-west-high-speed-train-california-las-vegas https://www.npr.org/2025/09/11/nx-s1-5495584/brightline-west...

pkulak 1y ago

Whenever I go to the East coast, I make a point of finding some reason to ride Amtrak, preferably Acela. There's just something magical about staying anywhere between Boston and DC, and yet only being one relaxing, couple-hour trip away from central Manhattan, downtown Philly, etc. I wish the West Coast also had frequent service between Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, and points between. Driving and flying stresses me out and is generally an awful experience. When I arrive by train, I'm more relaxed than when I started.

myvoiceismypass 1y ago
It always floored me when I moved to the Bay Area that Caltrain from SJ to SF took about as long as Amtrak from Philly to NYC (twice the distance). I know they are different systems and electric Caltrain is faster, but still, it felt like a step back rail wise. Also, Amtrak out here stops running so ridiculously early, which is very frustrating.
- jwagenet 1y ago
  Caltrain is a commuter rail and Amtrak is regional. Caltrain makes 15-20 stops between SF and San Jose. They aren’t the same sort of system at all. It’s like comparing Amtrak to Metro North.

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xnx 1y ago

I can't read the article. What does it say? It looks like Amtrak trips are up 7.5% since 2019 (https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=23182 https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=23182). Does that count as booming?

brewdad 1y ago
Relative to most other transit options that never fully recovered after COVID? Yes. Amtrak is even doing better than airlines.
- xnx 1y ago
  Remote work and Zoom have reduced the demand for business travel flights. No one takes a train for business.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    > No one takes a train for business. I mean surely that's a big part of what the Acela one is used for?
tim333 1y ago
https://archive.ph/BMTYP https://archive.ph/BMTYP

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

The low-hanging fruit is regional rail. Caltrain, LIRR, et cetera. That together with a robust metro system that links parking garages and airports is the realistic multi-modal transport we need. Too many rail projects seem to have been prosecuted by purists who are anti-car or anti-plane. That leads to bloat, or ignoring designs that would increase real ridership (e.g. adequate parking at endpoint, or RORO stock).

chiph 1y ago
The State of North Carolina runs several trains a day between Charlotte and Raleigh (The Piedmont). It runs along the same tracks as Amtrak's Carolinian. The Crescent, Palmetto, Silver Meteor and Floridian aren't focused on North Carolina but make stops in the state. I've ridden the Piedmont a couple of times and it's very convenient compared to driving, especially during inclement weather. Could it be better? Yes - especially in Charlotte where they have a half-completed station in Uptown while the current station is in a sketchy industrial area and isn't convenient for anyone. Once Charlotte Gateway station is completed it will link Amtrak service with local commuter rail and streetcar service (and bus/ride-share). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_(train) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_(train)
queenkjuul 1y ago
Idk, America is littered with Park-and-ride stations with perpetually empty lots
- rsynnott 1y ago
  Is the frequency and reliability of the attached rail service sufficient? Park and ride can work pretty well, but you do need a reliable rail service attached to it.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    Though, also, the trouble with park and ride stations is that there's a very specific utilisation at which they work well. If they get too popular, that is also a problem.

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jackcosgrove 1y ago

I have investigated taking Amtrak for a family trip to do something different. "The journey is the destination" or something like that. I was branding it "slow travel" to the family so we could use it as a sort of modern life/digital detox. I also looked into a trans-Atlantic passage on the QM2. I'm sad to report that renting a family bedroom or two joined bedrooms on Amtrak to take a journey on say the California Zephyr didn't pencil out. It is costlier than flying (about $2000 vs $1600 at the low end for both options, resp.) Even if you account for the cost of staying two extra nights at the destination it about breaks even. With children I don't want to risk the days of travel becoming an ordeal as opposed to hours of flight time. The "digital detox" might quickly go sideways and require hours of screentime pacifiers. Maybe when they are older. Happily the QM2 actually made financial sense and there would be more room to move about and explore the ship. I think rail travel makes the most sense in the Acela context the article opened with - routes between cities that take less than a day. For cross-continent travel the time savings of air travel make rail travel a harder case to argue.

nenenejej 1y ago
Yes. Perhaps it makes more sense for people "travelling" i.e. exploring the world where the fact that it is a nights accommodation too makes it a savings and speed is not an issue.
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bluGill 1y ago
Depends on where you are going - for my family vacation a sleeper for 4 is cheaper than flying by a lot (i live in a high priced air travel city, I would money driving to chicago despite the higher parking costs). However I have 5 people going and so it does't work out. (It doesn't help that amtrak dosen't suggest options like 2 rooms) We went coach amtrak which was cheaper and more comfortable than flying. I'd do that again.
manquer 1y ago
The point of cross continent rail travel is not being cheaper than air at all, it is about seeing and enjoying the country and the route, there is no easier or cheaper way to do that. - A road trip would be both more expensive (fuel, hotels and maintenance/rental), strenuous and also less safe given the number of miles to be driven. - There is quite little to see in a cruise if not near a shore or on a plane flying at cruising altitudes well above the clouds. While times have changed and it is lot harder for parents now, I cannot help but remember growing up the number of cross country train trips just sitting at the window with nothing but a book/magazine or conversations with passengers and it was formative life experience even when quite young. It wasn't that long ago and my generation was just as addicted to tech but we were limited to doing that only on a desktop with a modem. --- If you want to see and show the kids to help them understand the size and complex geography and beauty of the country they will inherit despite what limited time screen distractions allow, I don't think there is any better way to do it.

heelix 1y ago

So funny enough, I'm sitting on a plane right now because the amtrak train was late, then announced a different trip number then what was on the ticket. No information on what was coming or leaving. It was a small city depot, but it was nothing like I've come to expect in Europe. The Chicago/Minneapolis ticket was cheap. Seats on the way up were comparable to first class. Wifi did not work on the way up. Did turn a couple hour journey into an all day affair. My kingdom for a bullet train like others have.

varenc 1y ago

Took the California Zephyr from Emeryville to Chicago and loved it! but 5x more expensive than flying for a private room...but an absolutely beautiful journey.

decafninja 1y ago

I needed to travel from NYC to Washington DC, specifically without driving. Sounded like a perfect case for Amtrak. Turns out flying was both cheaper and faster.

amelius 1y ago
You have to add comfort to the equation. And don't forget about TSA checks which can be stressful.
- Uvix 1y ago
  And the stress of whether or not the airline will let your luggage on board with you.
- decafninja 1y ago
  For a flight that lasts less than an hour, I didn’t find comfort or the TSA screening really much of a drag.
MathMonkeyMan 1y ago
I took the Acela from NYC to DC to visit a friend. It was expensive, but I wanted to try it. The interior of the cars was old and beat up. The tray in front of me didn't work. The bathroom door was borked and there was this persistent hint of a foul smell. The woman across the isle was bombed and clearly going through something, but before long she fell asleep and when she woke up was docile as a lamb. I've read that the main advantage of inter-metropolis rail travel is that you enter and exit in the middle of town. This helped for NYC and DC -- I took a short subway ride to Penn Station on the NYC side, and then walked from Union Station to my friend's house on the DC side. Rail is the most comfortable way to travel by far. If only it were cheaper and faster.
- decafninja 1y ago
  The first half of your post seems to contradict your conclusion in the last sentence. Your first half would describe a pretty miserable trip for me. I’d gladly take TSA over what you described.

AaronAPU 1y ago

I really wish there was an auto train connecting the west and east sides of the country.

sehugg 1y ago

Notable is the recent introduction of Mardi Gras Service, a route from New Orleans from Mobile that hasn't been used for passenger trains since Hurricane Katrina. The maximum one-way fare is $15, and its already popular enough that they added 60 more seats. I'm looking forward to riding it and thumbing my nose in the direction of I-10.

eek2121 1y ago

Not here in TN. If it were, I'd be going places. I love trains, and even long train rides, regardless of the cost.

avlbk 1y ago

I've taken the Surfliner route (SB->LA) frequently while in college. Moving to NYC and taking the Acela (NYC to Boston) over 20 times, I have to say the east coast experience is amazing. The route is super popular with business travelers commuting to NYC or other major cities along the route. You show up, grab a seat, pop your laptop open, get some work done... wow you're at your destination. Hungry? Walk to the snack cart and grab a coffee or a beer, at a reasonable price.

bfeynman 1y ago
Amtrak is not reasonable prices compared to trains in like any other part of the world, except some parts of UK. Other than booking extremely early you're looking at 150$ plus tickets.
- avlbk 1y ago
  Last minute can be a bit pricy. But Boston to NYC is 40-78 dollars. Bus is 40, and takes 2x longer, and uncomfortable. I can get 4 hours of work done. It's not Europe, but it's really a way nicer experience than I expected.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Last minute can be a bit pricy Which is genuinely infuriating when you subsequently board a half-empty train.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    > Last minute can be a bit pricy. Which sucks for a public good. Imagine if roads worked this way (and no, surge pricing of express lanes don't count, since there's no discount for using it at the same time having booked it two months in advance). Or, like, water use.
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      This is, unfortunately, not just a US thing. Dublin to Cork is 20 eur if you book a few days in advance, 32 eur if you book same day, and, if you actually think you can just show up and pay _in the station_, 50 eur.

chipheat 1y ago

If you're looking for a paywall bypass, it's still paywalled under archive.today :( https://archive.ph/BMTYP https://archive.ph/BMTYP

neonate 1y ago

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mmmBacon 1y ago

The Surfliner in Southern California is a great deal. Take the business class ticket. OC to San Diego is a breeze and you can relax and enjoy all beach towns with a glass of wine. Took it from OC to Santa Barbara. It takes about an hour longer than driving but so worth it. Can’t say enough good things about it. Views in all directions totally amazing. Trains are packed at times but it’s good to see. I think high speed cross country rail travel is not very practical either to build or for travelers. The distances are too large, terrain too difficult and population densities are too low west of the Mississippi. It’s worth noting that the US train network is optimized for freight and we carry much more freight than many countries by rail. High population density corridors like BOS-NYC-PHL-DC and SB-LA-OC-SD make a lot of sense and would be great to see even better service. We are seeing a high-speed, private service building track between Ontario, CA and Las Vegas. Distances to Vegas and Phoenix are short enough and population densities high enough that it makes travel by train from SoCal competitive with driving and air.

nunez 1y ago

Amtrak is amazing, but it is horrendously slow outside of the NE corridor (due to freight priority) and routes that should exist don't (Dallas to Houston, Toronto to NYP diagonally across New York instead of via Albany). Apparently it takes 8h to do DFW to Little Rock despite this being a 6h trip by car. That's not great.

tug2024 1y ago

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tim333 1y ago

https://archive.ph/BMTYP https://archive.ph/BMTYP

tim333 1y ago

>...TikTok... Amtrak... Its posts can get hundreds of thousands of views. For me online addiction/enthusiasm has swung me towards trains. I'm fairly happy sitting there a while if I can do stuff online and get bored driving or doing airport faff.