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The thing that bothers me so much about this post is that it reeks of privilege by treating unemployment as if it were mainly just a bad trigger that you talk t
by ilaksh 1y ago
The thing that bothers me so much about this post is that it reeks of privilege by treating unemployment as if it were mainly just a bad trigger that you talk to your expensive therapist about once a week.
For most people in the real world, psychological burn out is NOT the problem with unemployment. The problem is becoming homeless.
- titanomachy 1y agoI think "most people in the real world" have at least a few rungs between their current situation and true homelessness. Many people have some sort of family or other community that they could lean on, even in America where family ties are weaker than any other place I know. I have a couple friends who haven't had steady work in years, and they still eke out a pretty reasonable existence living with friends and family because they are kind and considerate and people don't mind having them around. A lot of street homeless have mental or substance issues that make it hard for them to coexist with other people.
- roadside_picnic 1y ago"Homeless" is not the same as "living on the street". People living in hotels, temporary trailers (in some places even tiny homes count), living with a friend temporarily, etc are all homeless. Plenty of Americans are much closer than this than you might think working in tech. 50-60% of Americans currently live 'paycheck-to-paycheck' which means the second work stops they're on a timer for missing bills to start coming in. I've had the luxury, working in tech, to have lost a job and had the opportunity to take a few months off before searching. Even this was incredibly stressful in practice, but I never had to worry about losing my place of living.
- titanomachy 1y ago> People living in hotels, temporary trailers (in some places even tiny homes count), living with a friend temporarily, etc are all homeless. You're right. But is a 30-year-old who moves back in with their parents "homeless"? And yeah, the paycheck-to-paycheck stat blows my mind. Somehow the standard American experience has become the latest model iPhone (financed), a new car (financed), a rented home, 4-5 meals out weekly, and almost zero money in the bank. And all this in a country with some of the weakest social security in the developed world. I'm sure the half-trillion dollars spent on advertising every year has something to do with this.
- lawlessone 1y agoA phone for internet access is basically mandatory now if you want to work, and depending on where you live so is a car.
- ghxst 1y agoI'd be surprised if you had no one around you that didn't have an old android laying around collecting dust. I'm still on an old A52s and it works fine.
- lawlessone 1y agoi might, but i wouldn't want to rely on something i'm uncertain exists.
- titanomachy 1y agoA serviceable refurbished Android can be obtained for $50. A new iPhone costs at least $800, which is 100 hours of work at the federal minimum wage.
- nfriedly 1y agoAnd a serviceable refurbished iPhone isn't that much more, e.g. https://swappa.com/listings/apple-iphone-se-2nd-gen?carrier=unlocked&page=2 https://swappa.com/listings/apple-iphone-se-2nd-gen?carrier=...
- lawlessone 1y agook, but could that mean many people that are assumed to have new devices could actually be using older devices?
- nfriedly 1y agoProbably. The iPhone users I know mostly replace their phones once every 3 to 5 years, and they don't all buy brand new replacements even then (although some do.)
- antonvs 1y ago> People living in hotels … are homeless Does that include digital nomads who don’t have a permanent residence?
- jalapenos 1y agoYep, they're just winning at homeless
- reaperducer 1y agoDoes that include digital nomads who don’t have a permanent residence? Since they're not even a rounding error, it doesn't matter.
- tbrownaw 1y ago> Plenty of Americans are much closer than this than you might think working in tech. 50-60% of Americans currently live 'paycheck-to-paycheck' which means the second work stops they're on a timer for missing bills to start coming in. How is that actually defined by whoever measured it?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- SpicyLemonZest 1y agoThe median American has $8000 in transaction accounts and a net worth of $192k. 50-60% of Americans self-report that they’re living paycheck to paycheck, but not everyone understands that to mean “I literally can’t pay the bills if my paycheck doesn’t come on time”. (Is it deeply uncomfortable to get laid off with $8000 in your account? Without a doubt, especially in an increasingly weak labor market, even if you have home equity or retirement savings you could theoretically dip into to cover what unemployment benefits can’t.)
- monkeyelite 1y ago> "Homeless" is not the same as "living on the street" The word is being used to invoke that image.
- pessimizer 1y agoI think you should look this up instead of surveying your guesses about your friends. A lot of my friends' parents rely on their support. If they lost their jobs their parents would be in trouble, too.
- alsetmusic 1y ago> I think "most people in the real world" have at least a few rungs between their current situation and true homelessness. This is one of the most out-of-touch HN comments I've seen in a while. Most people are not nearly as privileged as the community on these forums. Not even all the people posting here are fully removed from the risk of being out on their ass. Some have moved from other parts of their home country (think people in the Bay Area who moved for a job and have no family in the same job market). Some have moved from other parts of the world to where they are and have no one upon whom they can impose. Plenty have huge student loans and are so fresh out of school that they're at the edge of the many rounds of layoffs affecting the tech industry in the last few years and lack enough experience on their resumés to land a new position before their finances run out. I can't believe how tone deaf it is to suggest that most people have multiple rungs upon which to fall back. And I've only been talking about people on these forums, the "fortunate" types.
- carlosjobim 1y ago> I can't believe how tone deaf it is to suggest that most people have multiple rungs upon which to fall back. There are rungs which are available to the population at large, so all of us have those privileges. For example the armed forces are recruiting. They will put a roof over your head and food in your belly, as well as give you medical coverage.
- yoyohello13 1y agoNot if you’re over 35 they won’t.
- titanomachy 1y ago> think people in the Bay Area who moved for a job and have no family in the same job market If they've failed to find a job for long enough that they're about to be homeless, does it really make sense to remain in the most expensive housing market in the country? I think it's equally out of touch to imply that if you select a random person from across America (the richest country in the world) you will land on someone who is an inch from homelessness, with no close family or community, massive debt, and living in terror of the next layoff. Certainly there are people in that situation, but to imply that it's somehow the median American experience is to caricature the country. All I said is that "most people" have rungs to fall back on, not "everyone".
- rr808 1y ago> I have a couple friends who haven't had steady work in years, and they still eke out a pretty reasonable existence living with friends and family What about their wife and children? Do they get to stay with them too?
- titanomachy 1y agoNo, the people I'm thinking of are childless. They recognize that their level of stability and functioning is not currently high enough to support a family. I didn't say that they're thriving and living their dream, just that they're still a couple rungs above homeless.
- rr808 1y agoYeah sorry I was just being facetious
- fujigawa 1y agoThis is going to upset some, but the tech industry is full of delusional people that are completely out of touch with reality and the needs and struggles of everyday Americans. I recently stumbled upon a YouTuber grousing about losing her six-figure tech job. She was in full freakout mode about budgeting etc. but something didn't seem quite right. Then she disclosed she's married, financially stable, husband still has a great job, etc. It made me stop and think how there's people out there delivering groceries, putting on an apron, all so they don't have to switch to eating cat food by the end of the week. OTOH ex-Googlers are worried they might be forced to switch to store-brand mineral water within weeks.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- strken 1y agoBlog posts are aimed at an audience, HN is an audience, and in both cases the audience in question is a technical one with an above-average number of well-paid professionals. The whole framing that the blog post "reeks of privilege" to "most people" is a bit strange. If I were to read a Yachting Monthly article about The Five Most Attention-Grabbing Mega Yachts For The Conspicuous Consumer Billionaire it would probably reek of privilege to me, too, but that's an entirely self inflicted problem: nobody is making me read a specific article from a yacht magazine.
- squigz 1y agoI think people would be shocked at HN demographics. I'm quite confident it's more representative of the average population in terms of things like income than some people seem to realize.
- strken 1y agoSure, but none of us have to read all the way through every article that hits the front page, or take it to heart when the article is about a rich person. One of my friends has given up on finding a software job and become a handyman to make ends meet. I get that not everyone in tech is loaded. I just don't think holding your nose and gagging at the "reek" when you deliberately read about someone who has six months of savings is a productive or useful reaction.
- squigz 1y ago> I just don't think holding your nose and gagging at the "reek" when you read about someone who has six months of savings is a productive or useful reaction. Interesting way to characterize GP's response when all they did was use a word in a very common way.
- monkeyelite 1y agoI suppose if you are including European and Indian salaries and American students? But upper middle class students are literally temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
- smegma2 1y agoThe median household net worth in the US is $193,000. The rate of home ownership is 65%. I don’t think the median American is at risk of becoming homeless during normal unemployment. Maybe you mean that the article isn’t as relevant for a global audience which is fine, but I would think that the median American lives in “the real world”. https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table/#series:Net_Worth;demographic:all;population:all;units:median https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table... https://www.nahb.org/blog/2024/08/lowest-homeownership-rate-in-four-years https://www.nahb.org/blog/2024/08/lowest-homeownership-rate-...
- infecto 1y agoI am not sure that means what you think it does. That’s not liquid dollars and does not mean those home owners have savings for emergencies.
- smegma2 1y agoThe median American also owns $39,000 in liquid financial assets. https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/scf23.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/scf23.pdf (page 22, “Financial Assets” section)
- Terr_ 1y agoIt doesn't say liquid assets though, it mentions multiple options which vary in how easily you can/should use one to pay an unexpected bill or period of unemployment. For example, if one is using their life-insurance payouts to pay their rent... well, something has gone very wrong somewhere. Specifically, this part: > financial asset—which includes transaction accounts, certificates of deposit, savings bonds, other bonds, stocks, pooled investment funds, retirement accounts, cash value life insurance, and other managed assets For the highly-liquid "transaction accounts" (checking, savings, money-market) the conditional [0] median is just $8k. [0] AFAICT "conditional" here means "we don't include $0 data points in the median." That explains why the subcategory of "stocks" has a higher conditional median value than the more-general category of financial assets.
- dennis_jeeves2 1y ago>psychological burn out is NOT the problem with unemployment. The problem is becoming homeless. Thanks. You hit the nail on the head.
- eleveriven 1y agoBurnout is real, and it’s worth talking about, but it’s a luxury to be able to even think about rest when your bank account is at zero and you're juggling survival
- monkeyelite 1y agoNormal functioning adults do not easily become homeless. There are several drops in lifestyle you have been accustomed to, before that happens.
- moralestapia 1y agoIf you don't have an income and you don't own your place, then you become homeless. That's not hard to see. If it doesn't happen it's because someone bails you out, this is a privilege not everyone has.
- monkeyelite 1y agoNo. What happens is you accept employment and terms you would not previously consider.