11 ms·

"Your" vs. "My" in user interfaces

529 points by Twixes 1y ago

bilekas 1y ago
I'm so glad I dont work with UI/UX. All of these type thought experiments seem so banal and futile to me, that said I'm glad there are some other people taking care with it all.
- jychang 1y ago
  90% of all important work is banal. That's kind of the thing. I'm sure a lot of engineering hours were spent on getting the door handle on your car to the exact safety/cost/functionality requirements, and at the end of the day, it's a door handle. Replace "door handle" with 99% of hardware and software that you ever see, and the same thing still applies. And yet, imagine using a car without a door handle. Most important work isn't sexy, it's banal stuff that's boring until you remove it and realize how important it is.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    We tend to simplify and gloss over things outside of our expertise. I'm sure UI folks think a lot of the problems developers obsess over are boring and pointless, too, even though they are important. "Should we use inheritance or composition, here?" Yawn--whatever, just make the button!
    - bilekas 1y ago
      Absolutely agree with you, which is why I appreciate them, it's just so wild to see what the priorities are across the fence! To be honest, I imagine their bike shedding is way more interesting.
Pinus 1y ago
This gets extra fun when you have a product which is actually named "My Card" (which, of course, is a bad idea to begin with, but...). Is it "Your My Card" or "My My Card"? French web sites seem to have lost the plot completely. Buttons are sometimes imperative, sometimes infinitive, sometimes first-person present ("J’en profite!"), and probably others...
- nicbou 1y ago
  We have the same thing in Quebec. It pairs with the use of "on" to imply that you and everybody else is doing the thing: "ce vendredi, on vote bleu". It's a sort of mild suggestion.
- yen223 1y ago
  Heh, Malaysia's two-letter country code is "MY". Guess what the national identity card is called?
- lmm 1y ago
  > This gets extra fun when you have a product which is actually named "My Card" (which, of course, is a bad idea to begin with, but...). Is it "Your My Card" or "My My Card"? Japanese use of "my" as a loanword creates a lot of these. Please park your my car in our my car parking lot.
  - makeitdouble 1y ago
    One would think those uses of "my" are limited to small stuff people don't pay attention to. But no, the gov pushed a "My Number" card initiative that acts as an official ID and is pretty critical to many procedures, including health insurance. So you're at the counter with the clerk going "Please show me your My Number card".
    - DonHopkins 1y ago
      When George Takei says "Oh My!" I agree by saying "Oh Your!"
- sweetjuly 1y ago
  It's a problem in Spanish too. You'll sometimes see buttons with the infinitive and others with the 2nd person command form. I recently saw a major company's app using both in the same dialog. It's madness.
- codegladiator 1y ago
  Well myspace didn't have any issues, did it ?
d--b 1y ago
The overuse of first person on French official websites also feels weirdly infantilizing. Clicking a button that says "I register" or "I want to pay for a parking ticket", feels so bizarre to me. It's like the website telling you what to click. Like it's holding your hand. I don't usually get mad at petty stuff like this, but this one just pisses me off somehow.
- jcelerier 1y ago
  French fellow, 100%. It reads really unserious.
  - LaundroMat 1y ago
    Oh, that's interesting! I always thought French-speaking people (I'm from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium) actually expected this type of language.
    - seszett 1y ago
      I think it's just some kind of design trend or something. But I don't know anyone who isn't at least a little bit put off by it from a user perspective. French has the added difficulty of requiring to choose between "tu" and "vous" if you want to use the "your..." style. So you can instantly see if the website is trying to fake being your friend. I think Flemish websites just use "jouw whatever" but it's much less direct and jarring than being called "tu" in French by a corporate entity (not a native Dutch speaker though, but I've been living in Flanders for quite a while now).
      - d--b 1y ago
        Yeah, it looks like the French websites are actually doing it less and less.
      - roelschroeven 1y ago
        Software in Dutch has a bit of a tension between je/jouw and u/uw too. Je/jouw sometimes seems to familiar, u/uw too formal. And I feel the balance between the two is different in Flanders vs the Netherlands. For something like Facebook, it's OK to use je/jouw. But for something like a government website, or perhaps things like banks or insurance companies, je/jouw is not appropriate and u/uw should be used. I just checked some samples: Facebook uses je/jouw, LinkedIn uses u/uw, government website MyMinfin uses u/uw. That all seems appropriate, so the choice is perhaps not as delicate as I first thought.
sedatk 1y ago
That’s also important with localization. In Turkish, the UI -> user formality is different than user -> UI formality. When the app speaks to the user, the language is formal, but when the user commands the app (through a button for example), it’s informal. So, if you use a caption like “Delete Your Files” on a button, it would mean the files of the app, not the files of the user. Or, if you have a dialog titled “Delete My Files”, that would imply an app is asking the user to delete the app’s files due to the differences in the formality. That’s a problem I’ve been encountering while translating Bluesky. If devs follow certain simple rules while writing UI text, it would make a tremendous difference for translation quality.
- psidium 1y ago
  > If devs follow certain simple rules while writing UI text, it would make a tremendous difference for translation quality As a UI Developer that has accidentally focused my whole career in building (complex) forms, I can tell you there is a night and day difference from when I worked alongside User Assistance professionals vs when UX designers had to come up with the texts. These “User Assistance professionals” were usually English/Language-majored that would exclusively take care of how to properly write the texts on the screen for the users. From help texts to button labels, to release notes and RCA, and especially taking care of how to write texts in English so the app would be easily translatable, they would own all. The apps that had that sort of handholding with the devs were extremely easier to use and input data to, even when the UX itself was subpar. I used to think it was standard to have English-focused professionals helping UI teams to deliver easy to understand products, only to find out that that company was kinda odd in that regard, and having UX or even product people coming up with labels is quite common. I do miss being able to fire an email when I need a quick text reviewed to be sure that a button is well labeled for the user and translation.
  - eru 1y ago
    > I used to think it was standard to have English-focused professionals helping UI teams to deliver easy to understand products, only to find out that that company was kinda odd in that regard, [...] Which is a bit of a shame, because English/Language-majored people's time is cheaper than techies' time. Google is another outlier in a related way: they have dedicated tech writers to produce internal documentation.
lancefisher 1y ago
We’ve been talking about this for a while, but it’s always fun to revisit in the context of the latest advancements and trends. I always liked the conclusion that Dustin Curtis came to which is: if you can use “your” in the UX it acts like a conversation with the user. This is even more appropriate as UX is becoming literally conversational. https://dcurt.is/yours-vs-mine https://dcurt.is/yours-vs-mine
Hackbraten 1y ago
"No thanks, I love missing out on amazing deals"
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
nomilk 1y ago
From UX stack exchange [0]: > MS Windows User Experience Interaction Guidelines suggests the following: > Use the second person (you, your) to tell users what to do. So use second person for error messages, help, window or page labels, on-page documentation, and other places where the app is telling the user about the user’s content. > Use the first person (I, me, my) to let users tell the program what to do. So use first person for buttons, menu items, and other controls where the user commands the app. [0] https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/4350/128359 https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/4350/128359
- thomasahle 1y ago
  Second answer is better imo: > Don't use My or Your. In most cases it's obvious whose they are. > The only case you might want to do it is to differentiate e.g. between the user's documents and everyone's documents. In that case I would follow the Microsoft guidelines cited by Michael and use "Your Documents" and "All Documents". > One of the worst UI bloopers in Windows XP is the use of the prefix "My". It's ridiculous: want to see your photos? Look under "M" for "My Photos". Received files? Look under "M" for "My Received Files". It's like the old joke about the secretary who files everything under "T" for "The Payroll", "The Rent", etc.
  - dspillett 1y ago
    I usually go with neither. I always found "my" to be a bit patronising and childlike (my files in my computer on my desk next to my apple that my mum told me to take in for my teacher) and usually find "your" to be superfluous. I have sometimes used "your" to differentiate between things like private, shared, and global, resources. More often than not this is not needed as there is a better word to use (local, private, shared, …) but sometimes the extra “your” or “by you” does help (for differentiating objects shared by others and those shared by you it can be more concise and clear than listing the name of who shared/owns the resource, for example).
    - gjm11 1y ago
      I too find the "My" stuff patronizing and annoying but I'm not convinced by your string of "my"s as showing that it's childlike. I mean, you could equally say: my files on my computer on my desk in my work-room next to my bedroom where I sleep with my wife. Or: my files on my computer in my house that my savings plus my mortgage with my bank paid for. There are as many distinctively-adult things you can put "my" in front of as distinctively-childish ones. I do in fact talk about my computer[1] and my files on it. The problem isn't that I wouldn't call them "my". It's that (1) when the computer labels them that way it feels like it's putting words in my mouth and I don't like that even if I'd have chosen similar words, and (2) it's unnecessary because if something's already in my home directory then calling it "My Whatever" rather than just "Whatever" is unnecessary. Of course, Windows rather wants to cover up all the evidence that you have a home directory, which for me is also part of the problem. [1] Well, I'd be more specific, because like many people on HN I have more than one computer. But that isn't really the point here.
Lammy 1y ago
> Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. Simpsons did it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vihwYGENbFg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vihwYGENbFg
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  The Simpsons always has at least one reference suitable to be shoehorned into a topic. But that one is pretty much a perfect bullseye. I’ve had this problem at times and it feels like one of those cases where a designer responsible for consistency is helpful. I end up oscillating between first and second person.
- kijin 1y ago
  I don't see what would be so awkward about saying "Go to My Cases" even if it was spoken over the phone. The user is already looking at a screen that contains a menu that says "My Cases". You are reading out the name of that menu. That's enough context for most people IRL. If you are genuinely worried that the user might try to look up your cases instead of their own, you can just add a few words to clarify: "Click the menu that says My Cases."
  - teiferer 1y ago
    And you my friend are demonstrating why this keeps being used. It's so common that now generations of devs and designers are so used to it that they don't see anything wrong. And if on the phone with grandma, instructing her to go to "my files" and her asking where to find my files (instead of hers), that's shrugged off as stupid user rather than an UX fail.
    - tdeck 1y ago
      If you're talking to someone who is mostly computer illiterate, you'd say something like "do you see a folder icon on the screen that says My Cases? Double click on that." and not "go to My Cases"
redleader55 1y ago
The conclusion I got from the article sounds like "talk to the user like normal human beings talk to one another". This seems like a very obvious and non-controversial idea, in hindsight. I wonder if that says more about how weird we - the people working as software engineers - are, than anything else.
impendia 1y ago
What really bugs me is use of the first person plural, which Microsoft (among others) seems to be doing a lot recently. I feel like I'm being talked down to. "Let's add your Microsoft account." No, let's not.
- simonask 1y ago
  "Let's" in English does not mean "let us". I mean, it literally does, but language is not literal. For the record, I also dislike the familiarity.
  - card_zero 1y ago
    I dislike the dishonesty. Compare to this line from Office Space: "I'm gonna need you to go ahead and work Saturday". Here go ahead implies that you're being given permission to joyfully do some work you were eager to do. In the Microsoft example, let's implies that this is a bright idea for something fun for you to do with Microsoft, your friend with your best interests at heart.
    - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
      As a non-English speaker, my understanding of no ahead did not have any joyful connotation. It was rather to express that someone will need to do something that has an initial friction, so not enjoyable.
      - bregma 1y ago
        Your understanding does not match the broadly accepted idiomatic meaning of the expression. The humour comes from the implied inversion of sacrifice, a kind of irony.
  - efdee 1y ago
    I can't think of any situation where "let's" does not mean "let us"?
juliushuijnk 1y ago
Interesting, but bikeshedding. Just use capitals and/or quotes. Nobody is getting confused by something like: Would you like to share the 'My Pictures' folder?
- oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
  But what's wrong with calling that folder "Pictures" (or, even better, "pictures")? macOS calls it "Pictures".
  - kmoser 1y ago
    "My" is used to make it clear that it contains the user's pictures, not pictures from other people, Apple, the Internet, etc. Just "Pictures" would make it more ambiguous. (Not saying it's the right thing to do, just pointing out why they do it.)
    - hahn-kev 1y ago
      If that's the case then there should be another folder to put pictures that aren't mine.
      - toast0 1y ago
        In Windows, with the right settings, you might have a 'Shared Pictures' folder or a 'toast0's Pictures' folder.
- klabetron 1y ago
  Agreed; if I’m writing help text or instructions, regardless of the use of “my” or “your”, I put pages or features in quotes or bold or italics or whatever format helps it stand out. ‘Click on your “My Cases” tab’ ‘Click on “Account”’ etc Reducing my/your in features is a good start (My Pictures → Pictures, as mentioned in this thread), but always treat specific concepts as proper nouns.
- mrheosuper 1y ago
austin-cheney 1y ago
First person pronoun overuse is the most immediate symptom of low social intelligence. This becomes clear in a way you could never otherwise imagine once raising children with certain forms of autism.
- Melonai 1y ago
  Could you elaborate? I hadn't noticed such a correlation before. Especially in relation to children on the autism spectrum.
  - austin-cheney 1y ago
    Not all autistic people do this. It is just one symptom among many in a big mixed bag called a spectrum. Over use of first-person pronouns occurs because a person struggles to extrapolate outward from themselves and their speech reflects the center of their thinking, which is just themselves. Low social intelligence describes the inability to relate to other people in a normal capacity. Not everybody is excellent at empathy, but for people with low social intelligence its a massive gap. It is such a gap that many people who suffer from extremely low social intelligence realize its a gap because they eventually figure out other people don't want to be around them and they don't have the social relationships they see other people casually having.
ynzoqn 1y ago
In addition to `Your` and `My`, I can sometimes see `This`. For example, Microsoft change Windows `My Computer` to `This PC`.
- sjamaan 1y ago
  It's not really your computer anymore...
pbhjpbhj 1y ago
They mention not using either, which solves the problem too. Personally, I detest the Microsoft way of naming directories. "My Documents" is just files. If you're going to name it "My Documents" it damn well better only contain documents, no config files, no videos or images. In other news, whilst I have my ranting hat on, WTAF is going on with Microsoft Explorer's search? Now sure, getting on the way and preventing you doing stuff is MS's cute thing -- but why does it suck so, so badly. It's as useful as a dingleberry.
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  Windows has been calling it Documents (and has had separate Pictures and Videos top-level folders) since Windows Vista, in 2007. So you're almost 20 years late with your complaint. And the "My Documents" name was introduced in Windows 95 SP2 (according to Wikipedia, at least), so by now Windows has had separate Documents, Pictures, and Videos folders for the majority of its lifetime.
- RiverCrochet 1y ago
  > WTAF is going on with Microsoft Explorer's search? I stopped caring (and actually used to remove Windows Search from the "Turn Windows features on or off" menu) once I heard about Everything.
js8 1y ago
I thought from the title this would be about who the UI. Take, for instance, Emacs. User owns the UI, can completely configure and script it, in fact, they're encouraged to. On the other side of the spectrum is something like a website, which has a generic UI for everyone.
jbb67 1y ago
Sometimes it's just wrong. An old one :- "It is now safe to turn off your computer" Awesome I'll go turn it off then, it's just across the room from this one that isn't mine that I'm currently shutting down
jofzar 1y ago
As someone who's a support engineer (in enterprise software) this part was interesting to me because it was obviously not written by someone who has spent a long time in a support or documentation environment. > Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. The way that I would word it and would mentor people to say is "go to 'my cases' at the top"
- bckmnn 1y ago
  Thats a thoughtful way of communicating. However I am not sure if the issue is that big. If someone tells me "I like your car", I also have to do the transfer that they are talking about "my" car. However I am not working in the support field, and communicating in a way that works around these pitfalls is probably the safer way.
- adambsilver 1y ago
  > it was obviously not written by someone who has spent a long time in a support I have been in call centres and watched users many times. > The way that I would word it and would mentor people to say is "go to 'my cases' at the top" Haivng to mentor people to speak in a certain way is a cost that should be avoided. Good design propagates out to all parts of the service, including support. Also, the speech marks around "my cases" don’t get heard over the phone, only seen when written down. But even if it's about how it's written, I agree it’s clearer, but it's also verbose and tiring for both the reader and the support agent. But most importantly, it can be avoided altogether by saying “Your” instead of “My” so why wouldn’t you just do that?
bambax 1y ago
For some reason, I really hate when websites use "my" or "I" instead of "your" and "you"; it feels patronizing, like they're trying to help us understand what's happening. Also the example given at the end of the article has a simple solution: > Do you want to share your profile photo? => YES / NO Why would we need to repeat the question in that case? This is not ambiguous. Ambiguities sometimes exist, though; my favorite is this one (not related to what's discussed here): Do you want to cancel? => Ok / Cancel
- BrandoElFollito 1y ago
  I hate that one with all my soul. There are several variations where the answers are completely ambiguous. This is frustrating when you need to, say, print something, but gets dangerous when this is a destructive action ("Do you want to delete this? This action is IRREVERSIBLE"")
  - MereInterest 1y ago
    > Do you want to delete this? This action is IRREVERSIBLE Every so often, I’ll check this github issue[0] from 2017, which requests that the various prune commands for docker (e.g. “docker image prune”) have a dry-run flag to display what will actually be deleted. These commands have a warning that data may be deleted, which requires user confirmation to continue, but don’t actually tell you what actions will be performed based on that confirmation until after the deletion has been performed. [0] https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/30623 https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/30623
  - agos 1y ago
    I hate that too, and especially because it’s a very well known problem with a very well agreed upon solution since ages
- kmoser 1y ago
  Reminds me of the old "Press Enter to exit" messages.
plainOldText 1y ago
From the article: > In summary: > Use “your” when communicating to the user > Use “my” when the user is communicating to us I could see how this makes sense with dialogs. But for UI elements? Should I name say a tab “My Pictures” and not “Your Pictures” because clicking on said tab I’m communicating to the system I want to see my pictures?
- Defman 1y ago
  No, you should name it "Your Pictures" because the app is communicating to the user that in this tab there are "your pictures". The article gives an example for the case: > Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. Replace "cases" with "pictures" :) If, however, there's a button which lets you upload pictures, it should be "Upload my picture", because the user is the one who's communicating to the app about their intent.
  - plainOldText 1y ago
    Hmm, I guess this then makes sense if we regard the app as a latent space projecting user's data, so its views are awaiting to be activated. Seen this way, the app is basically communicating to the user: Hey I have "Your Pictures", "Your Cases", etc. Click to find out. But to me the "My ..." variation also makes sense. e.g. In Photos app on macOS you will see "My Albums", "My Projects", and although they can be renamed, I don't think I created them.
nickdothutton 1y ago
Generally I'm against both "Your" and "My". A computer system is a tool, a storage, a servant or aide. When I use it, it is all by my command in some sense. So I consider this possessiveness in the interface unnecessary. I wonder if this is partly a personality-type thing? Maybe it's me :-)
- mattmanser 1y ago
  That's covered at the top of the article. The author agrees with you. The article is about when you should use my or your in form controls like upload dialogs.
eviks 1y ago
> Saying something like “Go to my cases” is awkward and unnatural Then say the natural "go to the tab called "My cases" "Your" doesn't eliminate ambiguity either because it could be "Cases" like in the Amazon example The "share your photo"example is just needlessly verbose, the repetition in each answer carries no useful info, just "requires" extra reading
mvdtnz 1y ago
> Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. No it isn't.
- thunderfork 1y ago
  [dead]
tommica 1y ago
Doesn't the select example invalidate the first point of not using a prefix? By the select examples logic, it should be fine to have UI element stating "my cases" and email stating "your cases".
disposablese 1y ago
I do not like the word “my” anywhere in Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). Putting on my autistic , very factual, and methodologically empathetic hat on, I prefer a clear line of separation—machines should act as machines, not as personalized companions. I prefer “your” everywhere. I wanted to do research in HCI a while back, but funding in this area is limited. To me, HCI research felt overly focused on making computer interaction more personable by adding layers of so-called "personalization." Let interaction with machines remain objective, straightforward, and friendly—especially for older people.
- dkersten 1y ago
  This is similar to why I prefer LLM's to behave less human-like and more robotic and machine-like, because they're not humans or human-like, they are robotic and machine-like. The chatbot is not my friend and it can't be my friend, so it shouldn't behave like its trying to be my friend. It should answer my queries and requests with machine-like no-nonsense precision and accuracy, not try to make an emotional connection. Its a tool, not a person.
  - sethammons 1y ago
    You're absolutely right.
  - javier_e06 1y ago
    I hear you ( I am not an LLM ). I can't deny that the "You are absolutely right" gives me a shot of confidence and entices me to continue the dialog. I am being manipulated. I prefer the machine to reply: Affirmative. Unfortunately this billion dollar LLM enterprises are competing for eyeballs and clicks.
    - TomaszZielinski 1y ago
      My favorite reply is something like: „You’re The Real GOAT!!! And now let’s just quickly clarify some minor points”, followed by a complete destruction of my arguments :).
Shamanoid 1y ago
Thanks to the author for this, I definitely find those observations interesting. In defense to the UK gov services website used as examples here. I think it is one of the most efficient website I’ve ever used. Absolutely superb on mobile/desktop, navigation and UX is clear and to the point. Accessibility is also top notch and I often refer to that website as the perfect example for clean product outcomes during product brainstorms.
makeitdouble 1y ago
Using pronouns is most of the time the sign of an immature team/director/PO or building a service that is of extremely limited target. Trying to be overly friendly and human to the user is cute but doesn't translate well internationally. Very fast one bumps into the sometimes tricky social norms associated with pronouns, and significant time is then spent dealing with the subtilities while the clueless person at the top is bitter about the fuss made about things they still think are trivial. IMHO being clear beats being natural. Even Amazon has this issue where "Your" is very brief in English so they stuck it on "Your Payments" "Your account" etc., and it makes for a weird mess in other languages where it needs to be dropped in some places but not others.
- RegW 1y ago
  I was once contracting at an ISP/telco in the naughties. While working on a UI to obtain PAC codes and transfer phone numbers, I was coding a modal confirmation dialog, when I almost unconsciously translated the specified "You sure" into "Are you sure?". The QA guy kicked it back. So I took it a manager to get the spec corrected. The manager said to just follow the spec as written. No, I couldn't add a question mark. Apparently the company used language like this to appear "down with the kids". I hadn't realised I had got so out-of-touch. So I went away and did as I was told. Oh well - I'm still here, but the telco isn't.
bregma 1y ago
Which pronoun to use is very much a problem introduced by the last couple of generations. How someone or something identifies is irrelevant to almost everything. The antecedent can almost always be identified by context without resorting to irrelevant information like if it's "mine" or "yours", let alone having to choose the proper grammatical gender depending on animate status ("its" vs. "their"). I move we strike pronouns entirely from the English language. It turns out they're just too much trouble (although that sentence might be a little awkward). Bring back declensions.
deleted 1y ago
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moolcool 1y ago
https://youtu.be/wX1x7pfH8fw?si=aEGLYtBTSbCrbRBJ https://youtu.be/wX1x7pfH8fw?si=aEGLYtBTSbCrbRBJ
Stratoscope 1y ago
The case that annoys me to no end is when Windows is installing an update that requires a reboot, and it puts up a message like this: You're 90% there NO, you blithering idiot, I am not 90% there, you are 90% there. All I am doing is waiting for you. You could have said: We're 90% there And then we would both be happy. I even took the time to submit feedback to Microsoft on this (and much more politely than I stated it here). Who wants to guess if my feedback was ever acted on?
- TheRoque 1y ago
  Anyways, this message is just feel-good bullshit UI/UX design. I prefer to have just "Loading: 90%" and that's it.
  - Stratoscope 1y ago
    I agree completely. Another pet peeve is when a "percent done" message like this rounds to the nearest percent. So once it is more than 99.5% done, it says "100% done". But obviously it's not 100% done, it's still sitting there waiting to finish! Folks, if you are ever tasked with coding an "nn% done" message, please floor the percentage instead of rounding it.
    - pelletier 1y ago
      Agree. Though at some point I also added a round up when percentage was strictly between 0% and 1%. In my case it seemed like users believed more easily that the program was “broken” if it took a while at 0% rather than 1%.
    - PaulKeeble 1y ago
      The amount of these bars that get to 99% and that in practice is the half way point is infuriating. Surely at this point we understand the difference as programmers between the amount of bytes we need to change verses the number of files and the enormous performance difference of updating small files and why any measure needs to blend both to be at least a bit more accurate. Or if its more different types of work a much better split of the bar is necessary.
DonHopkins 1y ago
[dead]
- Dilettante_ 1y ago
  I can't tell whether this is a joke or not.
IgorPartola 1y ago
For what it’s worth capitalization fixes a lot of this. “Go to my account” vs “Go to My Account”. Pretty clear to me.
burnt-resistor 1y ago
Ugh. It's almost as bad as verbose documentation by people who can't grok concision, but it's worse because it's inflicted on many more people more times. Furthermore, it's helpful to have other skeuomorphic, iconic, color, and/or other affordances that don't detract that do not require language to aid not-native speakers and those with disabilities.
perching_aix 1y ago
> Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. Which is why everyone says... > Go to "My cases" ...instead.
homeonthemtn 1y ago
Fairly sure we only use "My" at all due to iMacs being misinterpreted by computer illiterate people assuming the I as a possessive term, meaning "I Mac" and not the correct truncation of "Internet Machine." This blew up as an assumption at the time - the kids want identity! Customization! - and soon we got "My" tagged to everything, the most famous being myspace.com So now we're stuck with these dumb assumptions of possession when we could just have "My Account" be "Account" and be done with it. /rant
- tdeck 1y ago
  I seem to remember Windows 95 had "My Computer" and the iMac came out in 1998, so the "My" labeling was already underway.
  - homeonthemtn 1y ago
    Technically yes, but no one thought that was necessarily cool. iMacs were huge in the adoption of computers by families and kids though
- eloisant 1y ago
  The first time I remember seeing "My" was "My Computer" on Windows 95. I hated then, still hate it now.
coolgoose 1y ago
Or be a proper comrade and only use our :p
dostick 1y ago
Windows: your, macOS: my. And it makes sense in context of the article because on Windows you will be told a lot what and how to do. With macOS, you understand what to do and may have questions how to do new things.
carcabob 1y ago
The article makes some excellent points. I think this part isn't a great example, though: > Saying something like “Go to my cases” is awkward and unnatural – if I told you to go to my cases, you’d think I was telling you to go to my cases, not yours. A help article should use proper capitalization. a couple extra words can add clarity too. For example, "Go to the 'My Cases' page." Many people don't know how to write good help articles, though, so it's probably still best to avoid "my"/"your" in UIs.
taeric 1y ago
One of my favorite Knuth videos was him reviewing some students' code in a lecture. I /think/ this was for the Stanford GraphBase code that he was getting students to write, but can't fully remember. What I do remember is how he liked the distinction a student did at the start of a code to define what different voices would be used in the code. I will try to find the quote later, my first minute looking failed. But it basically highlighted how the narrative was able to pull out different perspectives on the same code. From the intent of the author, the actions of the computer, and where the author thought the reader would be best focusing attention. To that end, I think the idea in this article is to acknowledge the perspectives. And, sure, sometimes there are multiple entities that could be referenced in an interaction. Try to be consistent with whose voice a label is communicating with.
psychoslave 1y ago
The best pronoun is "we" but it can only really apply when entities with empathy are all we are talking about. This account is not "I" nor "you". When the present attention face anything like "I", "you" or even "we", it should reflect on where is this likely coming from and how it’s likely aligning with its own goals. Let’s remember that ego is illusion, and yet a powerful tool to manipulate the present attention. Take care, enjoy actual life!
antonyh 1y ago
My take on this: both 'your' and 'my' are weak. Eliminate both or use 'the' if you must. Using 'the' is stronger for the singular, and unnecessary for the plural - The Account, The Profile Picture, Cases, Tasks, Items. And in the case of personal computing: 'Documents' beats 'My' or 'Your'. It's an implied concept, doubly so as they are intangible abstracts rather then physical objects. It never sat comfortably with me in Windows XP, and messed with sort order too. There's no reason to qualify it unless a system can have both 'my' and 'your' at the same time.
- PaulKeeble 1y ago
  My Documents irritates me immensely not just because the My is useless but there is nothing mine about the contents of the folder, applications automatically dump stuff in it. I use my own Documents folder under Nextcloud and leave all the automated apps to spew their files into a folder that is meant to be mine, its actually owned and run by the system and applications they are its users not me, its a system folder better named "System Documents".
  - antonyh 1y ago
    Same here, although arguably even 'documents' is redundant when I can shove anything in there. The fact that I'm forced to have it at all when I want to have 'personal files' and 'work files' instead is problematic.
ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
I've always thought it was presumptuous for Microsoft to claim ownership of hardware be labelling it as "My Computer". Yes, I get that it's supposed to be referring to the person's computer, but it should have been labelled "This Computer".
estimator7292 1y ago
I pretty much only ever use 'you' when I need to explain something to the person behind the keyboard. Most of the time though I just don't use any pronouns and let the subject be implied. I do use 'I' when the message is from me, the developer, and not the program as a separate entity. Though sometimes I do find it cute for the program to refer to itself in the first person. Not often though
jason_s 1y ago
OMG, flashback to Windows 95's "My Documents". I agree with the article's "It's a trick question" paragraph --- avoid using either.
outsideoftime 1y ago
[dead]
charles_f 1y ago
I have 5 apps that start by "My" on my phone. Makes it impossible to find them. In any case, I'd much rather use no pronouns, in most cases it works well and you don't need them. "Cases", "Account", "Cards" works as well as the pronouned version.

529 points by Twixes 1y ago

I'm so glad I dont work with UI/UX. All of these type thought experiments seem so banal and futile to me, that said I'm glad there are some other people taking care with it all.

jychang 1y ago
90% of all important work is banal. That's kind of the thing. I'm sure a lot of engineering hours were spent on getting the door handle on your car to the exact safety/cost/functionality requirements, and at the end of the day, it's a door handle. Replace "door handle" with 99% of hardware and software that you ever see, and the same thing still applies. And yet, imagine using a car without a door handle. Most important work isn't sexy, it's banal stuff that's boring until you remove it and realize how important it is.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  We tend to simplify and gloss over things outside of our expertise. I'm sure UI folks think a lot of the problems developers obsess over are boring and pointless, too, even though they are important. "Should we use inheritance or composition, here?" Yawn--whatever, just make the button!
  - bilekas 1y ago
    Absolutely agree with you, which is why I appreciate them, it's just so wild to see what the priorities are across the fence! To be honest, I imagine their bike shedding is way more interesting.

Pinus 1y ago

This gets extra fun when you have a product which is actually named "My Card" (which, of course, is a bad idea to begin with, but...). Is it "Your My Card" or "My My Card"? French web sites seem to have lost the plot completely. Buttons are sometimes imperative, sometimes infinitive, sometimes first-person present ("J’en profite!"), and probably others...

nicbou 1y ago
We have the same thing in Quebec. It pairs with the use of "on" to imply that you and everybody else is doing the thing: "ce vendredi, on vote bleu". It's a sort of mild suggestion.
yen223 1y ago
Heh, Malaysia's two-letter country code is "MY". Guess what the national identity card is called?
lmm 1y ago
> This gets extra fun when you have a product which is actually named "My Card" (which, of course, is a bad idea to begin with, but...). Is it "Your My Card" or "My My Card"? Japanese use of "my" as a loanword creates a lot of these. Please park your my car in our my car parking lot.
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  One would think those uses of "my" are limited to small stuff people don't pay attention to. But no, the gov pushed a "My Number" card initiative that acts as an official ID and is pretty critical to many procedures, including health insurance. So you're at the counter with the clerk going "Please show me your My Number card".
  - DonHopkins 1y ago
    When George Takei says "Oh My!" I agree by saying "Oh Your!"
sweetjuly 1y ago
It's a problem in Spanish too. You'll sometimes see buttons with the infinitive and others with the 2nd person command form. I recently saw a major company's app using both in the same dialog. It's madness.
codegladiator 1y ago
Well myspace didn't have any issues, did it ?

d--b 1y ago

The overuse of first person on French official websites also feels weirdly infantilizing. Clicking a button that says "I register" or "I want to pay for a parking ticket", feels so bizarre to me. It's like the website telling you what to click. Like it's holding your hand. I don't usually get mad at petty stuff like this, but this one just pisses me off somehow.

jcelerier 1y ago
French fellow, 100%. It reads really unserious.
- LaundroMat 1y ago
  Oh, that's interesting! I always thought French-speaking people (I'm from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium) actually expected this type of language.
  - seszett 1y ago
    I think it's just some kind of design trend or something. But I don't know anyone who isn't at least a little bit put off by it from a user perspective. French has the added difficulty of requiring to choose between "tu" and "vous" if you want to use the "your..." style. So you can instantly see if the website is trying to fake being your friend. I think Flemish websites just use "jouw whatever" but it's much less direct and jarring than being called "tu" in French by a corporate entity (not a native Dutch speaker though, but I've been living in Flanders for quite a while now).
    - d--b 1y ago
      Yeah, it looks like the French websites are actually doing it less and less.
    - roelschroeven 1y ago
      Software in Dutch has a bit of a tension between je/jouw and u/uw too. Je/jouw sometimes seems to familiar, u/uw too formal. And I feel the balance between the two is different in Flanders vs the Netherlands. For something like Facebook, it's OK to use je/jouw. But for something like a government website, or perhaps things like banks or insurance companies, je/jouw is not appropriate and u/uw should be used. I just checked some samples: Facebook uses je/jouw, LinkedIn uses u/uw, government website MyMinfin uses u/uw. That all seems appropriate, so the choice is perhaps not as delicate as I first thought.

sedatk 1y ago

That’s also important with localization. In Turkish, the UI -> user formality is different than user -> UI formality. When the app speaks to the user, the language is formal, but when the user commands the app (through a button for example), it’s informal. So, if you use a caption like “Delete Your Files” on a button, it would mean the files of the app, not the files of the user. Or, if you have a dialog titled “Delete My Files”, that would imply an app is asking the user to delete the app’s files due to the differences in the formality. That’s a problem I’ve been encountering while translating Bluesky. If devs follow certain simple rules while writing UI text, it would make a tremendous difference for translation quality.

psidium 1y ago
> If devs follow certain simple rules while writing UI text, it would make a tremendous difference for translation quality As a UI Developer that has accidentally focused my whole career in building (complex) forms, I can tell you there is a night and day difference from when I worked alongside User Assistance professionals vs when UX designers had to come up with the texts. These “User Assistance professionals” were usually English/Language-majored that would exclusively take care of how to properly write the texts on the screen for the users. From help texts to button labels, to release notes and RCA, and especially taking care of how to write texts in English so the app would be easily translatable, they would own all. The apps that had that sort of handholding with the devs were extremely easier to use and input data to, even when the UX itself was subpar. I used to think it was standard to have English-focused professionals helping UI teams to deliver easy to understand products, only to find out that that company was kinda odd in that regard, and having UX or even product people coming up with labels is quite common. I do miss being able to fire an email when I need a quick text reviewed to be sure that a button is well labeled for the user and translation.
- eru 1y ago
  > I used to think it was standard to have English-focused professionals helping UI teams to deliver easy to understand products, only to find out that that company was kinda odd in that regard, [...] Which is a bit of a shame, because English/Language-majored people's time is cheaper than techies' time. Google is another outlier in a related way: they have dedicated tech writers to produce internal documentation.

lancefisher 1y ago

We’ve been talking about this for a while, but it’s always fun to revisit in the context of the latest advancements and trends. I always liked the conclusion that Dustin Curtis came to which is: if you can use “your” in the UX it acts like a conversation with the user. This is even more appropriate as UX is becoming literally conversational. https://dcurt.is/yours-vs-mine https://dcurt.is/yours-vs-mine

Hackbraten 1y ago

"No thanks, I love missing out on amazing deals"

deleted 1y ago
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nomilk 1y ago

From UX stack exchange [0]: > MS Windows User Experience Interaction Guidelines suggests the following: > Use the second person (you, your) to tell users what to do. So use second person for error messages, help, window or page labels, on-page documentation, and other places where the app is telling the user about the user’s content. > Use the first person (I, me, my) to let users tell the program what to do. So use first person for buttons, menu items, and other controls where the user commands the app. [0] https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/4350/128359 https://ux.stackexchange.com/a/4350/128359

thomasahle 1y ago
Second answer is better imo: > Don't use My or Your. In most cases it's obvious whose they are. > The only case you might want to do it is to differentiate e.g. between the user's documents and everyone's documents. In that case I would follow the Microsoft guidelines cited by Michael and use "Your Documents" and "All Documents". > One of the worst UI bloopers in Windows XP is the use of the prefix "My". It's ridiculous: want to see your photos? Look under "M" for "My Photos". Received files? Look under "M" for "My Received Files". It's like the old joke about the secretary who files everything under "T" for "The Payroll", "The Rent", etc.
- dspillett 1y ago
  I usually go with neither. I always found "my" to be a bit patronising and childlike (my files in my computer on my desk next to my apple that my mum told me to take in for my teacher) and usually find "your" to be superfluous. I have sometimes used "your" to differentiate between things like private, shared, and global, resources. More often than not this is not needed as there is a better word to use (local, private, shared, …) but sometimes the extra “your” or “by you” does help (for differentiating objects shared by others and those shared by you it can be more concise and clear than listing the name of who shared/owns the resource, for example).
  - gjm11 1y ago
    I too find the "My" stuff patronizing and annoying but I'm not convinced by your string of "my"s as showing that it's childlike. I mean, you could equally say: my files on my computer on my desk in my work-room next to my bedroom where I sleep with my wife. Or: my files on my computer in my house that my savings plus my mortgage with my bank paid for. There are as many distinctively-adult things you can put "my" in front of as distinctively-childish ones. I do in fact talk about my computer[1] and my files on it. The problem isn't that I wouldn't call them "my". It's that (1) when the computer labels them that way it feels like it's putting words in my mouth and I don't like that even if I'd have chosen similar words, and (2) it's unnecessary because if something's already in my home directory then calling it "My Whatever" rather than just "Whatever" is unnecessary. Of course, Windows rather wants to cover up all the evidence that you have a home directory, which for me is also part of the problem. [1] Well, I'd be more specific, because like many people on HN I have more than one computer. But that isn't really the point here.

Lammy 1y ago

> Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. Simpsons did it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vihwYGENbFg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vihwYGENbFg

Waterluvian 1y ago
The Simpsons always has at least one reference suitable to be shoehorned into a topic. But that one is pretty much a perfect bullseye. I’ve had this problem at times and it feels like one of those cases where a designer responsible for consistency is helpful. I end up oscillating between first and second person.
kijin 1y ago
I don't see what would be so awkward about saying "Go to My Cases" even if it was spoken over the phone. The user is already looking at a screen that contains a menu that says "My Cases". You are reading out the name of that menu. That's enough context for most people IRL. If you are genuinely worried that the user might try to look up your cases instead of their own, you can just add a few words to clarify: "Click the menu that says My Cases."
- teiferer 1y ago
  And you my friend are demonstrating why this keeps being used. It's so common that now generations of devs and designers are so used to it that they don't see anything wrong. And if on the phone with grandma, instructing her to go to "my files" and her asking where to find my files (instead of hers), that's shrugged off as stupid user rather than an UX fail.
  - tdeck 1y ago
    If you're talking to someone who is mostly computer illiterate, you'd say something like "do you see a folder icon on the screen that says My Cases? Double click on that." and not "go to My Cases"

redleader55 1y ago

The conclusion I got from the article sounds like "talk to the user like normal human beings talk to one another". This seems like a very obvious and non-controversial idea, in hindsight. I wonder if that says more about how weird we - the people working as software engineers - are, than anything else.

impendia 1y ago

What really bugs me is use of the first person plural, which Microsoft (among others) seems to be doing a lot recently. I feel like I'm being talked down to. "Let's add your Microsoft account." No, let's not.

simonask 1y ago
"Let's" in English does not mean "let us". I mean, it literally does, but language is not literal. For the record, I also dislike the familiarity.
- card_zero 1y ago
  I dislike the dishonesty. Compare to this line from Office Space: "I'm gonna need you to go ahead and work Saturday". Here go ahead implies that you're being given permission to joyfully do some work you were eager to do. In the Microsoft example, let's implies that this is a bright idea for something fun for you to do with Microsoft, your friend with your best interests at heart.
  - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
    As a non-English speaker, my understanding of no ahead did not have any joyful connotation. It was rather to express that someone will need to do something that has an initial friction, so not enjoyable.
    - bregma 1y ago
      Your understanding does not match the broadly accepted idiomatic meaning of the expression. The humour comes from the implied inversion of sacrifice, a kind of irony.
- efdee 1y ago
  I can't think of any situation where "let's" does not mean "let us"?

juliushuijnk 1y ago

Interesting, but bikeshedding. Just use capitals and/or quotes. Nobody is getting confused by something like: Would you like to share the 'My Pictures' folder?

oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
But what's wrong with calling that folder "Pictures" (or, even better, "pictures")? macOS calls it "Pictures".
- kmoser 1y ago
  "My" is used to make it clear that it contains the user's pictures, not pictures from other people, Apple, the Internet, etc. Just "Pictures" would make it more ambiguous. (Not saying it's the right thing to do, just pointing out why they do it.)
  - hahn-kev 1y ago
    If that's the case then there should be another folder to put pictures that aren't mine.
    - toast0 1y ago
      In Windows, with the right settings, you might have a 'Shared Pictures' folder or a 'toast0's Pictures' folder.
klabetron 1y ago
Agreed; if I’m writing help text or instructions, regardless of the use of “my” or “your”, I put pages or features in quotes or bold or italics or whatever format helps it stand out. ‘Click on your “My Cases” tab’ ‘Click on “Account”’ etc Reducing my/your in features is a good start (My Pictures → Pictures, as mentioned in this thread), but always treat specific concepts as proper nouns.
mrheosuper 1y ago

austin-cheney 1y ago

First person pronoun overuse is the most immediate symptom of low social intelligence. This becomes clear in a way you could never otherwise imagine once raising children with certain forms of autism.

Melonai 1y ago
Could you elaborate? I hadn't noticed such a correlation before. Especially in relation to children on the autism spectrum.
- austin-cheney 1y ago
  Not all autistic people do this. It is just one symptom among many in a big mixed bag called a spectrum. Over use of first-person pronouns occurs because a person struggles to extrapolate outward from themselves and their speech reflects the center of their thinking, which is just themselves. Low social intelligence describes the inability to relate to other people in a normal capacity. Not everybody is excellent at empathy, but for people with low social intelligence its a massive gap. It is such a gap that many people who suffer from extremely low social intelligence realize its a gap because they eventually figure out other people don't want to be around them and they don't have the social relationships they see other people casually having.

ynzoqn 1y ago

In addition to `Your` and `My`, I can sometimes see `This`. For example, Microsoft change Windows `My Computer` to `This PC`.

sjamaan 1y ago
It's not really your computer anymore...

pbhjpbhj 1y ago

They mention not using either, which solves the problem too. Personally, I detest the Microsoft way of naming directories. "My Documents" is just files. If you're going to name it "My Documents" it damn well better only contain documents, no config files, no videos or images. In other news, whilst I have my ranting hat on, WTAF is going on with Microsoft Explorer's search? Now sure, getting on the way and preventing you doing stuff is MS's cute thing -- but why does it suck so, so badly. It's as useful as a dingleberry.

tsimionescu 1y ago
Windows has been calling it Documents (and has had separate Pictures and Videos top-level folders) since Windows Vista, in 2007. So you're almost 20 years late with your complaint. And the "My Documents" name was introduced in Windows 95 SP2 (according to Wikipedia, at least), so by now Windows has had separate Documents, Pictures, and Videos folders for the majority of its lifetime.
RiverCrochet 1y ago
> WTAF is going on with Microsoft Explorer's search? I stopped caring (and actually used to remove Windows Search from the "Turn Windows features on or off" menu) once I heard about Everything.

js8 1y ago

I thought from the title this would be about who the UI. Take, for instance, Emacs. User owns the UI, can completely configure and script it, in fact, they're encouraged to. On the other side of the spectrum is something like a website, which has a generic UI for everyone.

jbb67 1y ago

Sometimes it's just wrong. An old one :- "It is now safe to turn off your computer" Awesome I'll go turn it off then, it's just across the room from this one that isn't mine that I'm currently shutting down

jofzar 1y ago

As someone who's a support engineer (in enterprise software) this part was interesting to me because it was obviously not written by someone who has spent a long time in a support or documentation environment. > Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. The way that I would word it and would mentor people to say is "go to 'my cases' at the top"

bckmnn 1y ago
Thats a thoughtful way of communicating. However I am not sure if the issue is that big. If someone tells me "I like your car", I also have to do the transfer that they are talking about "my" car. However I am not working in the support field, and communicating in a way that works around these pitfalls is probably the safer way.
adambsilver 1y ago
> it was obviously not written by someone who has spent a long time in a support I have been in call centres and watched users many times. > The way that I would word it and would mentor people to say is "go to 'my cases' at the top" Haivng to mentor people to speak in a certain way is a cost that should be avoided. Good design propagates out to all parts of the service, including support. Also, the speech marks around "my cases" don’t get heard over the phone, only seen when written down. But even if it's about how it's written, I agree it’s clearer, but it's also verbose and tiring for both the reader and the support agent. But most importantly, it can be avoided altogether by saying “Your” instead of “My” so why wouldn’t you just do that?

bambax 1y ago

For some reason, I really hate when websites use "my" or "I" instead of "your" and "you"; it feels patronizing, like they're trying to help us understand what's happening. Also the example given at the end of the article has a simple solution: > Do you want to share your profile photo? => YES / NO Why would we need to repeat the question in that case? This is not ambiguous. Ambiguities sometimes exist, though; my favorite is this one (not related to what's discussed here): Do you want to cancel? => Ok / Cancel

BrandoElFollito 1y ago
I hate that one with all my soul. There are several variations where the answers are completely ambiguous. This is frustrating when you need to, say, print something, but gets dangerous when this is a destructive action ("Do you want to delete this? This action is IRREVERSIBLE"")
- MereInterest 1y ago
  > Do you want to delete this? This action is IRREVERSIBLE Every so often, I’ll check this github issue[0] from 2017, which requests that the various prune commands for docker (e.g. “docker image prune”) have a dry-run flag to display what will actually be deleted. These commands have a warning that data may be deleted, which requires user confirmation to continue, but don’t actually tell you what actions will be performed based on that confirmation until after the deletion has been performed. [0] https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/30623 https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/30623
- agos 1y ago
  I hate that too, and especially because it’s a very well known problem with a very well agreed upon solution since ages
kmoser 1y ago
Reminds me of the old "Press Enter to exit" messages.

plainOldText 1y ago

From the article: > In summary: > Use “your” when communicating to the user > Use “my” when the user is communicating to us I could see how this makes sense with dialogs. But for UI elements? Should I name say a tab “My Pictures” and not “Your Pictures” because clicking on said tab I’m communicating to the system I want to see my pictures?

Defman 1y ago
No, you should name it "Your Pictures" because the app is communicating to the user that in this tab there are "your pictures". The article gives an example for the case: > Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. Replace "cases" with "pictures" :) If, however, there's a button which lets you upload pictures, it should be "Upload my picture", because the user is the one who's communicating to the app about their intent.
- plainOldText 1y ago
  Hmm, I guess this then makes sense if we regard the app as a latent space projecting user's data, so its views are awaiting to be activated. Seen this way, the app is basically communicating to the user: Hey I have "Your Pictures", "Your Cases", etc. Click to find out. But to me the "My ..." variation also makes sense. e.g. In Photos app on macOS you will see "My Albums", "My Projects", and although they can be renamed, I don't think I created them.

nickdothutton 1y ago

Generally I'm against both "Your" and "My". A computer system is a tool, a storage, a servant or aide. When I use it, it is all by my command in some sense. So I consider this possessiveness in the interface unnecessary. I wonder if this is partly a personality-type thing? Maybe it's me :-)

mattmanser 1y ago
That's covered at the top of the article. The author agrees with you. The article is about when you should use my or your in form controls like upload dialogs.

eviks 1y ago

> Saying something like “Go to my cases” is awkward and unnatural Then say the natural "go to the tab called "My cases" "Your" doesn't eliminate ambiguity either because it could be "Cases" like in the Amazon example The "share your photo"example is just needlessly verbose, the repetition in each answer carries no useful info, just "requires" extra reading

mvdtnz 1y ago

> Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. No it isn't.

thunderfork 1y ago
[dead]

tommica 1y ago

Doesn't the select example invalidate the first point of not using a prefix? By the select examples logic, it should be fine to have UI element stating "my cases" and email stating "your cases".

disposablese 1y ago

I do not like the word “my” anywhere in Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). Putting on my autistic , very factual, and methodologically empathetic hat on, I prefer a clear line of separation—machines should act as machines, not as personalized companions. I prefer “your” everywhere. I wanted to do research in HCI a while back, but funding in this area is limited. To me, HCI research felt overly focused on making computer interaction more personable by adding layers of so-called "personalization." Let interaction with machines remain objective, straightforward, and friendly—especially for older people.

dkersten 1y ago
This is similar to why I prefer LLM's to behave less human-like and more robotic and machine-like, because they're not humans or human-like, they are robotic and machine-like. The chatbot is not my friend and it can't be my friend, so it shouldn't behave like its trying to be my friend. It should answer my queries and requests with machine-like no-nonsense precision and accuracy, not try to make an emotional connection. Its a tool, not a person.
- sethammons 1y ago
  You're absolutely right.
- javier_e06 1y ago
  I hear you ( I am not an LLM ). I can't deny that the "You are absolutely right" gives me a shot of confidence and entices me to continue the dialog. I am being manipulated. I prefer the machine to reply: Affirmative. Unfortunately this billion dollar LLM enterprises are competing for eyeballs and clicks.
  - TomaszZielinski 1y ago
    My favorite reply is something like: „You’re The Real GOAT!!! And now let’s just quickly clarify some minor points”, followed by a complete destruction of my arguments :).

Shamanoid 1y ago

Thanks to the author for this, I definitely find those observations interesting. In defense to the UK gov services website used as examples here. I think it is one of the most efficient website I’ve ever used. Absolutely superb on mobile/desktop, navigation and UX is clear and to the point. Accessibility is also top notch and I often refer to that website as the perfect example for clean product outcomes during product brainstorms.

makeitdouble 1y ago

Using pronouns is most of the time the sign of an immature team/director/PO or building a service that is of extremely limited target. Trying to be overly friendly and human to the user is cute but doesn't translate well internationally. Very fast one bumps into the sometimes tricky social norms associated with pronouns, and significant time is then spent dealing with the subtilities while the clueless person at the top is bitter about the fuss made about things they still think are trivial. IMHO being clear beats being natural. Even Amazon has this issue where "Your" is very brief in English so they stuck it on "Your Payments" "Your account" etc., and it makes for a weird mess in other languages where it needs to be dropped in some places but not others.

RegW 1y ago
I was once contracting at an ISP/telco in the naughties. While working on a UI to obtain PAC codes and transfer phone numbers, I was coding a modal confirmation dialog, when I almost unconsciously translated the specified "You sure" into "Are you sure?". The QA guy kicked it back. So I took it a manager to get the spec corrected. The manager said to just follow the spec as written. No, I couldn't add a question mark. Apparently the company used language like this to appear "down with the kids". I hadn't realised I had got so out-of-touch. So I went away and did as I was told. Oh well - I'm still here, but the telco isn't.

bregma 1y ago

Which pronoun to use is very much a problem introduced by the last couple of generations. How someone or something identifies is irrelevant to almost everything. The antecedent can almost always be identified by context without resorting to irrelevant information like if it's "mine" or "yours", let alone having to choose the proper grammatical gender depending on animate status ("its" vs. "their"). I move we strike pronouns entirely from the English language. It turns out they're just too much trouble (although that sentence might be a little awkward). Bring back declensions.

deleted 1y ago

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moolcool 1y ago

https://youtu.be/wX1x7pfH8fw?si=aEGLYtBTSbCrbRBJ https://youtu.be/wX1x7pfH8fw?si=aEGLYtBTSbCrbRBJ

Stratoscope 1y ago

The case that annoys me to no end is when Windows is installing an update that requires a reboot, and it puts up a message like this: You're 90% there NO, you blithering idiot, I am not 90% there, you are 90% there. All I am doing is waiting for you. You could have said: We're 90% there And then we would both be happy. I even took the time to submit feedback to Microsoft on this (and much more politely than I stated it here). Who wants to guess if my feedback was ever acted on?

TheRoque 1y ago
Anyways, this message is just feel-good bullshit UI/UX design. I prefer to have just "Loading: 90%" and that's it.
- Stratoscope 1y ago
  I agree completely. Another pet peeve is when a "percent done" message like this rounds to the nearest percent. So once it is more than 99.5% done, it says "100% done". But obviously it's not 100% done, it's still sitting there waiting to finish! Folks, if you are ever tasked with coding an "nn% done" message, please floor the percentage instead of rounding it.
  - pelletier 1y ago
    Agree. Though at some point I also added a round up when percentage was strictly between 0% and 1%. In my case it seemed like users believed more easily that the program was “broken” if it took a while at 0% rather than 1%.
  - PaulKeeble 1y ago
    The amount of these bars that get to 99% and that in practice is the half way point is infuriating. Surely at this point we understand the difference as programmers between the amount of bytes we need to change verses the number of files and the enormous performance difference of updating small files and why any measure needs to blend both to be at least a bit more accurate. Or if its more different types of work a much better split of the bar is necessary.

DonHopkins 1y ago

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Dilettante_ 1y ago
I can't tell whether this is a joke or not.

IgorPartola 1y ago

For what it’s worth capitalization fixes a lot of this. “Go to my account” vs “Go to My Account”. Pretty clear to me.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Ugh. It's almost as bad as verbose documentation by people who can't grok concision, but it's worse because it's inflicted on many more people more times. Furthermore, it's helpful to have other skeuomorphic, iconic, color, and/or other affordances that don't detract that do not require language to aid not-native speakers and those with disabilities.

perching_aix 1y ago

> Similarly, a support agent might tell you to “Go to your cases” over webchat or a phone call. This is confusing if the UI says “My cases”. Which is why everyone says... > Go to "My cases" ...instead.

homeonthemtn 1y ago

Fairly sure we only use "My" at all due to iMacs being misinterpreted by computer illiterate people assuming the I as a possessive term, meaning "I Mac" and not the correct truncation of "Internet Machine." This blew up as an assumption at the time - the kids want identity! Customization! - and soon we got "My" tagged to everything, the most famous being myspace.com So now we're stuck with these dumb assumptions of possession when we could just have "My Account" be "Account" and be done with it. /rant

tdeck 1y ago
I seem to remember Windows 95 had "My Computer" and the iMac came out in 1998, so the "My" labeling was already underway.
- homeonthemtn 1y ago
  Technically yes, but no one thought that was necessarily cool. iMacs were huge in the adoption of computers by families and kids though
eloisant 1y ago
The first time I remember seeing "My" was "My Computer" on Windows 95. I hated then, still hate it now.

coolgoose 1y ago

Or be a proper comrade and only use our :p

dostick 1y ago

Windows: your, macOS: my. And it makes sense in context of the article because on Windows you will be told a lot what and how to do. With macOS, you understand what to do and may have questions how to do new things.

carcabob 1y ago

The article makes some excellent points. I think this part isn't a great example, though: > Saying something like “Go to my cases” is awkward and unnatural – if I told you to go to my cases, you’d think I was telling you to go to my cases, not yours. A help article should use proper capitalization. a couple extra words can add clarity too. For example, "Go to the 'My Cases' page." Many people don't know how to write good help articles, though, so it's probably still best to avoid "my"/"your" in UIs.

taeric 1y ago

One of my favorite Knuth videos was him reviewing some students' code in a lecture. I /think/ this was for the Stanford GraphBase code that he was getting students to write, but can't fully remember. What I do remember is how he liked the distinction a student did at the start of a code to define what different voices would be used in the code. I will try to find the quote later, my first minute looking failed. But it basically highlighted how the narrative was able to pull out different perspectives on the same code. From the intent of the author, the actions of the computer, and where the author thought the reader would be best focusing attention. To that end, I think the idea in this article is to acknowledge the perspectives. And, sure, sometimes there are multiple entities that could be referenced in an interaction. Try to be consistent with whose voice a label is communicating with.

psychoslave 1y ago

The best pronoun is "we" but it can only really apply when entities with empathy are all we are talking about. This account is not "I" nor "you". When the present attention face anything like "I", "you" or even "we", it should reflect on where is this likely coming from and how it’s likely aligning with its own goals. Let’s remember that ego is illusion, and yet a powerful tool to manipulate the present attention. Take care, enjoy actual life!

antonyh 1y ago

My take on this: both 'your' and 'my' are weak. Eliminate both or use 'the' if you must. Using 'the' is stronger for the singular, and unnecessary for the plural - The Account, The Profile Picture, Cases, Tasks, Items. And in the case of personal computing: 'Documents' beats 'My' or 'Your'. It's an implied concept, doubly so as they are intangible abstracts rather then physical objects. It never sat comfortably with me in Windows XP, and messed with sort order too. There's no reason to qualify it unless a system can have both 'my' and 'your' at the same time.

PaulKeeble 1y ago
My Documents irritates me immensely not just because the My is useless but there is nothing mine about the contents of the folder, applications automatically dump stuff in it. I use my own Documents folder under Nextcloud and leave all the automated apps to spew their files into a folder that is meant to be mine, its actually owned and run by the system and applications they are its users not me, its a system folder better named "System Documents".
- antonyh 1y ago
  Same here, although arguably even 'documents' is redundant when I can shove anything in there. The fact that I'm forced to have it at all when I want to have 'personal files' and 'work files' instead is problematic.

ndsipa_pomu 1y ago

I've always thought it was presumptuous for Microsoft to claim ownership of hardware be labelling it as "My Computer". Yes, I get that it's supposed to be referring to the person's computer, but it should have been labelled "This Computer".

estimator7292 1y ago

I pretty much only ever use 'you' when I need to explain something to the person behind the keyboard. Most of the time though I just don't use any pronouns and let the subject be implied. I do use 'I' when the message is from me, the developer, and not the program as a separate entity. Though sometimes I do find it cute for the program to refer to itself in the first person. Not often though

jason_s 1y ago

OMG, flashback to Windows 95's "My Documents". I agree with the article's "It's a trick question" paragraph --- avoid using either.

outsideoftime 1y ago

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charles_f 1y ago

I have 5 apps that start by "My" on my phone. Makes it impossible to find them. In any case, I'd much rather use no pronouns, in most cases it works well and you don't need them. "Cases", "Account", "Cards" works as well as the pronouned version.