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Swedes and Danes are at the forefront. The truth is that Scandinavian societies are much more authoritarian and illiberal than they want people to believe.
by dariosalvi78 1y ago
Swedes and Danes are at the forefront.
The truth is that Scandinavian societies are much more authoritarian and illiberal than they want people to believe.
- miohtama 1y ago[flagged]
- henearkr 1y ago[flagged]
- swinglock 1y agoYou sure know a lot about socialism and words, for someone that doesn't know that these social democrats are called so because it's literally the name of their parties.
- henearkr 1y agoWell you sure know a lot about words, but could you change or rearrange them please, because right know I have trouble to make sense of your comment :/
- swinglock 1y agoThey are socialists. It's not a slur.
- henearkr 1y agoOk, thank you, that's clearer. But the whole point, on my side, is to emphasize that in some cases "socialist" means "authoritarian communist" (that's been only when the word is used by some Americans) and in some cases (the most of the time e.g. if you are dialoguing with somebody from Europe) it means something else. See my other comments for more.
- ExoticPearTree 1y agoAs somebody who lived its early years in a socialist country, all I can tell you is that socialism does not work. Never did, never will.
- somewhereoutth 1y agoAssuming you are living in a modern economy - including the US - around half of it is owned/run by the government, i.e. half of it is socialist (social ownership of the means of production)
- henearkr 1y agoA lot of EU countries are liberal-socialist, and it works really well. Canada has a more important socialist component than the US, and it serves them well. I wonder if you really did not understand my first post, or if it is just your take at flameware.
- ExoticPearTree 1y agoIts not about flamewars. Its about the fact that socialism doesn’t work. Have you watched the news lately? EU is a shitshow right now. France is going downhill really fast, Germany - I don’t even about them. And the rest is scrambling with their own issues. Oh yes, Canadian free healthcare, right? Where a doctor might see you in 6-12 months. If you die in the meantime, tough luck. No, socialism doesn’t work. You know, everyone is a lefty until they start their own company, and then they quickly realize what a bunch of crap that ideology is.
- henearkr 1y agoLol, well the large demonstrations in France are because people demand more social, not less ;) So, here you are, people are pretty much happy with socialism, they are angry when you try to take it from them. Also, I've read a lot a different version than yours: "ppl are righties up until they fell ill". Which happpens a lot more than creating a corporation. Ah and the result is quite life-and-death, which failing a startup is not (is common). Ah and NO you won't have to wait in Canada if you have an emergency. And even an advanced cancer will be treated quickly, you won't have to wait months of course (or ppl would die of waiting, which the system avoids effectively).
- luqtas 1y agocapitalism can also be interpreted as something which "serves the modern, specialised multifunctional community by doing your job." to "profit then use the sum to upgrade society" what the heck you place socialism as something towards <the overall happiness of the society, and not focusing on increasing material wealth>? first that socialism is a temporary state towards communism, that despite, it doesn't need to pursue communism. see China. second; WHY DO YOU WANT TO CENTRALIZE POWER TOWARDS A SELECTED GROUP OF PEOPLE? Karl Marx is fine, but it's a european guy who lived in 1800s. socialism and capitalism are essentially the same with the difference of the hope of donation of power coming from the public vs. the private... you need to be quite naive to believe the goverment will do the good without corruption. much more people with power allowing their goods to be taken. see our history before capitalism
- henearkr 1y agoYou just proved my point: you use the radical variant of the meaning of the word "socialist", without even acknowledging that it is not the only one. Have you heard of SocDem, or "social democracy"? It is everywhere. Even in ones of the most successful democracies on this planet.
- Aloisius 1y agoIt's odd to call people who promote capitalism socialists. They might have historically believed in gradual transition away from capitalism, but today they seem entirely happy with capitalism with a little corporatism in labor markets. Socialism is mostly branding.
- henearkr 1y agoThis is where there is a misconception. This use of the word "socialist" (the use that is NOT meaning "communist dictatorship") is quite equivalent to "politically left". For example, it correlates with free healthcare, free education. This is not in opposition to "capitalism". It is more, like, "maybe profit (financially) less, but care more"?
- lm28469 1y ago> the government decides what is allowed and what is not. Hm, you mean the government makes the laws? Shocking, revolting even
- Workaccount2 1y agoIn the context of chat, it likely refers to a desire to make sure there isn't any "illegal talk" or "bad think" going on.
- atmosx 1y ago[flagged]
- pembrook 1y ago[flagged]
- slater 1y agoLet's please not fall, for the trillionth time, into the trap of "Nazis were socialists, it's in their name!".
- pembrook 1y agoThe nazis had income tax rates virtually identical to most modern European countries, which was not at all common globally at the time. Also they had wealth exit taxes just like modern Socialists in Europe are fighting for right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax I've now listed about 10 different major similarities, but if you'd like I can go on with more similarities. Modern socialists in Europe are also starting to turn against immigration and toward ethnic nationalism as well. This is a fundamental dark truth about socialism; it leads to anti-immigrant backlash. When the collective is paying for a lot of social welfare, they tend to get upset when people they perceive as 'other' come in and start to enjoy the fruits of the collective pie. You can 1:1 map the increasingly closed immigration policy in the US with the rise of the social welfare state starting in the 1930s.
- slater 1y agoYou appear to be lost in some bizarre correlation/causation maze, so I'll save you the effort, and not waste my time.
- philipallstar 1y ago[flagged]
- tomhow 1y agoComments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- gjsman-1000 1y agoSweden has also had an explosion of organized gang violence; carried out by tech savvy teenagers using encrypted chats. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/how-gang-violence-took-hold-of-sweden-in-five-charts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/how-gang-viole... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-girls-hitwomen-sweden-organized-crime/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-girls-hitwomen-sweden-orga... https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/agenda/briefing/2025-02-10/12/parliament-to-debate-increasing-gang-violence-in-sweden https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/agenda/briefing/2025-...
- nickslaughter02 1y ago[flagged]
- SiempreViernes 1y agoThe biggest factor is that the police simply suck at doing their real job but have worked hard at making sure the rank and file doesn't complain in public.
- LtWorf 1y ago"never complain" is a rule in all sectors in sweden. Makes people feel isolated and makes them think nobody else is facing the same issue as them.
- LtWorf 1y agoThey accepted a lot of migration but then expected immigrants to be content with being extremely poor and with no way to improve their condition and got surprise picachu faces when they decided that crime was an appropriate way since no other way existed.
- rstuart4133 1y agoThank you. For others this is the last para of the first link: > The Swedish government has proposed new legislation that would allow police to wiretap children under the age of 15 in an attempt to curb the violence, according to the BBC. So, Chat Control is an attempt by a few politicians to give police some tools to prevent teenagers from shooting each other in gang wars. It's a real problem, it needs a real solution, this looks to be an honest attempt to come up with one - from someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Interestingly, we've had an uptick in youth violence here in Australia too. It feels eerily similar. It's happening in the same demographic, it's happening while crime overall is dropping, and the authorities here too are struggling to control it. It's so serious it lead to a change of government at the last election. A right wing mob got in by beating the law and order drum with the slogan "Adult Crime, Adult Time". https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/102316 https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/102316 If anything, that's less effective at stopping crime than Chat Control. Sigh.
- arresin 1y agoThey’ve had to become like that due to their bizarre choices. They really got the worst of all worlds. Net tax beneficiaries, fear, crime and now judicial over reach. How do you do this to yourself?
- tokioyoyo 1y agoVery small sample group, but from my talks with Danes, they actually enjoy their lives quite a bit. I disagree with the chat control, but who are we to say what they want or need, if they have been enjoying their lives with the government of their choosing?
- LtWorf 1y agoI doubt your friends are a representative sample. And they probably think they wouldn't be the first ones to be oppressed by this.
- ipaddr 1y agoMedia and conversations in a small population with a unique native languages lacks the population for diversity of opinions and often results of blind trust in local government, power structures and group thought influenced by those in power. Who can be critical in this type of society? Ignorance can be bliss.
- Jensson 1y agoIn other words: In countries where the government represent the people well those people trust the government a lot more and give it more power since the government does what the people want.
- dariosalvi78 1y agowhich is what happens in China for example
- dariosalvi78 1y ago
- userbinator 1y agoNot surprising that it's from the same place that told us we should be happy with owning nothing.
- burnerzzzzz 1y agoLol, I have a different interpretation: Scandinavians have much more trust in their state. And I’d add: For good reason. Doesn’t mean the state should be trusted to a naive degree of course