5 ms·

High Altitude Living – 8,000 ft and above (2021)

101 points by walterbell 1y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
If anyone watched that movie, Elevation[0], the “line of death” was 8,000 feet. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(film)
- handzhiev 1y ago
  The line of death is at 8,000 meters, not feet
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    Nope. Feet. At least, that's what I remember from the film, and the Wikipedia page says "feet." Also, I don't know if the Rockies have a 25,000-foot mountain (I think the Andes do, though). Us Americans are kinda awkward about measurement units...
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      Even that’s a stretch. The highest peak in the Andes, is Mount Aconcagua, which is just under 7,000 meters. That’s the highest point in the Western Hemisphere.
ljsprague 1y ago
Just don't try to have a baby up there.
- leoh 1y ago
  Why not?
  - deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
    I would guess OP is referring to the association with lowered birth weight due to chronic hypoxia: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7050200/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7050200/
MitPitt 1y ago
On the contrary, do people who live high above for years have any trouble when coming back down?
danielvaughn 1y ago
I grew up in Memphis TN but lived in Boulder CO for a few years. I worked at a hospital in both cities; my job was checking people into the ER. In Memphis, I’d probably see 7-10 heart related issues a day, with about 2-3 of them being actual heart attacks. Every single day. By contrast, in Boulder I saw maybe 1-2 heart attacks a year. It was absolutely astounding. Now, there could be some confounding variables like income/education/exercise/diet. But like another poster said, high altitude places seem to bring out more activity in us.
- rubidium 1y ago
  You have experience in 2 very different places demographically. High altitude may be on the list of factors but I would guess it’s pretty far down. Boulder is a small college town of mostly affluent younger people. Memphis is an urban city in a hot climate that is older, poorer, and in the middle of the section of the US that has some of the worst health overall.
- e40 1y ago
  Boulder is one of the most fit places in the country. Lowest obesity rates, as you would expect from the first statement.
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justinc8687 1y ago
I lived in Breckenridge (9,600ft) for a few winters post college. Before college, when I had last been to CO, I didn't get any altitude sickness. Post college, I discovered (by blacking out on the slopes at Vail) that I now got bad altitude sickness. It now takes me almost 2 weeks to aclimate, but once I do, boy, is it amazing. The most fun time was when I flew home to the East Coast after being there 4 months. I felt like absolute Superman. So much energy, barely needed any sleep! I only wish those effects lasted more than 5 days...
zeristor 1y ago
Higher UV… Theoretically solar cells designed for more more UV intensity could produce quite a lot more electricity. I imagine solar panels for space craft are designed with this in mind. Of course the economics of this, that there’s only a few places where this is useful wouldn’t justify it all.
arminiusreturns 1y ago
I grew up in the mountains at about 8500 ft, but was often spending my freetime at higher elevations surrounding the village. There are lots of little things about living at high altitude people don't think about, such as cooking times and quirks, sealed containers exploding when going up, etc. My favorite has to be just how superhuman (when I was in my prime) going down to low elevation made me feel. The biggest issue people don't talk about? Remote high alt places often become unlivable for people when they get elderly due to altitude interference in certain medical conditions, and the general distance away from hospitals. I miss the mountains so much all the time, and hope to retire back up there.
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cadre_78 1y ago
I spent time in Lhasa, it sits at 12k. It was like another world. High altitude isn't forgiving either. My (62) father was with me and didn't make it home.
jedberg 1y ago
My in-laws have a timeshare at 8300 feet. The first couple of days we have to take it easy and drink a ton of water, but then we kinda get used to it. And definitely feel superhuman when we return to sea level! The hardest part is getting used to cooking at the elevation.
- bigmadshoe 1y ago
  Super curious, what’s different about cooking in your experience?
  - vvladymyrov 1y ago
    Water boils at lower temperature because of lower pressure at higher altitude. As a result cooking is different - normal recipes don’t work as expected. From my personal anecdotal experience even grilling somehow is different at 8000ft.
pcrh 1y ago
8,000 ft (2,400 meters) isn't particularly high. Millions of people live at that altitude. It's extremely common for people to go on a skiing vacation at that altitude or above, up to maybe 4,000 meters, and not need to take any particular precautions. As to comments here about days resting while progressing to higher altitudes, such as in the Himalayas. A day or two will mostly result in adjustments in the water balance of your blood. It takes about 10 days to two weeks for your bone marrow to start producing additional red blood cells to compensate for the lower level of oxygen in the air. High level altitude sickness is more complex and relates to multiple factors, including fluid balance, the health of one's vasculature and lungs, etc. It is certainly the case that populations that have lived at high altitudes in the Himalayas or Andes for thousands of years have evolved adaptations that make such living easier.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  > Millions of people live at that altitude Millions isn’t that many people :)
  - jslakro 1y ago
    Tens of millions (Bogotá, Quito, La Paz), to be specific
- kelnos 1y ago
  Yeah, I spend a decent amount of time during the year at 6500-7000 feet (and live at sea level for the rest of the year). There's always an acclimation period when I first get there, but it's nowhere near as severe as the article suggests. I'm fine going right to the gym or whatever when I get there; I don't need a few days of rest first. In the winter I'll spend hours of the day up at 8000-9000 feet, and yes, I get winded easier, but I'm otherwise fine. I'm in my 40s, so while I'm not old, I'm not young either. I think the highest up I've ever been for any solid amount of time was 10,500 feet, and sure, I could tell the difference, but it wasn't debilitating or anything remotely like that, and I could do moderate-plus physical activity without anything bad happening. I've also been up to 15,000 feet (Salkantay Pass in Peru) for a very short time, and definitely felt it. A few people in my hiking group had to take some medicine, and one or two availed themselves of camels. But I would also consider this hike a high-exertion activity; they were fine when we took a break for a while and relaxed. But I'm just not convinced that most (generally healthy!) people need that much acclimation before doing day-to-day tasks, including regular levels of exercise.
yrcyrc 1y ago
Worked for four months as a mountain bike guide on the death road in La Paz. 3600 meters to 4800 getting to the start of the road to about 1000 meters each day, and back. I believe I made many blood cells and nearly died 3 times
ruicraveiro 1y ago
There's an old aviation adage that says that time spent flying isn't deductible from one's lifespan. This article supports that. :-)
lazyant 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Rinconada,_Peru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Rinconada,_Peru at 5,100 m (16,700 ft) is the highest town in the world. Locals play soccer on the street after working all day at the mines, visitors need oxygen tanks.
rc_kas 1y ago
Wait that was super short. I liked this article I wanted it to be longer.
sparrish 1y ago
I wonder if they're confusing the cause and effect. Do people who live above 8k feet not die of heart disease or do people with heart disease find it too difficult to live above 8k feet so only people without heart disease live above 8k feet? I live at 7200 feet and I know several people who have moved to lower altitudes because it's "too hard to breath" here.
- leetrout 1y ago
  I visited Mexico City a couple weeks ago and it is at 7200 feet. As I got off the plane I was gasping a bit and I woke up 3 or 4 times the first night gasping for air. I didn't have any problems visiting Denver at 5000 feet in years past but I was absolutely feeling it at 7200. I didn't stay long enough to see if I would acclimate as I continued to feel bad and returned home early.
  - petesergeant 1y ago
    I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Mexico City and SMA, and the first time was definitely the worst; lots of shortness of breath and walking seemed much harder there than other places. My 75 year-old mother had no issues at all when she came to visit tho
  - CGMthrowaway 1y ago
    There are reasons to be gasping for air in Mexico City that don't have to do with the altitude.. has terrible air quality
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    My dad visited Machu Picchu. He was doing poorly and the guides put him on oxygen. They were well prepared for it, as it happens a lot and is not very predictable. It's at 8,000 feet. I remember staying overnight at Estes Park, 7500 feet. I got a headache. I didn't try anything strenuous. I recall reading about Mt Everest climbs. Even on supplemental oxygen, your brain measurably dies a little. No thanks. People who climb it repeatedly are, in my not-so-humble opinion, idiots.
bix6 1y ago
> The best defense is to start at 5,000 feet and stay there for 3 days, drinking water like crazy and resting. Then, come up to the higher elevation and give yourself a day or two to adjust. That usually works. This is crazy to me as I usually only get 1 acclimation night in before going up. I’m curious how people can find their limits / needs?
- Syzygies 1y ago
  I met Charles Snead Houston, who lead the first two American attempts on K2 and became a doctor. (He fell the furthest in "The Belay", the most famous belay in mountaineering history.) He asked me to explain my work on card shuffling, so we traded. He taught me about altitude sickness, for which he was the foremost expert. I then read his books before my own mountaineering, and his advice worked for me. In a nutshell, where you sleep matters. 7,000' is free, and a conservative pace is to sleep 1,000' feet higher each night. (Good luck finding a Kilimanjaro ascent that climbs that slowly, but have you met anyone who was comfortable at the summit?) My wife's brother lives at 10,000'. As it happens the last hotel is at 8,500'. One night does the trick for her.
  - mylifeandtimes 1y ago
    I'm interested in your work on card shuffling. Or perhaps you could point me to a starter website? Alas, I don't have much to trade for it except respect.
    - mos_basik 1y ago
      I'm also curious - I found this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40895185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40895185
kaonwarb 1y ago
As a child I lived for two years at ~11k ft (La Paz, Bolivia). I can vouch for the impact of both Acute Mountain Sickness and the sun at that elevation.
- Rendello 1y ago
  I first learned about La Paz and its even higher-elevation sibling city El Alto from this video [1] about their new cable car transportation network [1][2]. I then spent a few hours on Google Maps and Youtube looking at El Alto up close, what a fascinating and different world up there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5126u88E7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5126u88E7E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi_Telef%C3%A9rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi_Telef%C3%A9rico
tonkinai 1y ago
"Living at high altitude reduces risk of dying from heart disease", but you're litereally locked in your house because the sun takes every chance to fry you. I'm okay with not reducing my risk of dying from heart disease.
- randomfool 1y ago
  So easy to protect from the sun and the reward in the mountains is so wonderful. Terrible waste to stay locked in. Wouldn’t be surprised if this were another contributor to less heart disease- so much incentive to get outside and do stuff.
- IncreasePosts 1y ago
  No, you just wear long sleeve shirts and a hat.
purpleflame1257 1y ago
One other fun thing about living at altitude is that the recipes you use need to be redesigned because the boiling point of water is lower.
- addaon 1y ago
  Very asymmetrically, too. There's a (relatively) small impact on cooking grains and pasta and stuff, but even at 5000 ft where I live beans can easily take 2x as long to cook. It's a challenge.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
    Have you tried baking bread? Pizza dough? Some surprises wait :)
  - eichin 1y ago
    Hmm, is coffee a problem? (some of the extraction depends on temperature, but if water boils before reaching that temperature then the extraction wouldn't work...)
    - jillesvangurp 1y ago
      Espresso machines work at high pressures (8-9 bar) so it's less of an issue with those. I went up to the observatory on Mont Blanc a few years ago and had an espresso there. That's 3500 meter. I definitely was out of breath. The coffee was fine.
    - addaon 1y ago
      Coffee takes compensation, but even ambient pressure extraction can be tuned for great results — Denver and Boulder have good coffee scenes, for example. The bigger challenge is that Mr Coffee style brewers (bubble pump) have no way to adjust extraction time; and some fancier brewers try to closed-loop control temperature, and end up boiling the water continuously while brewing. Pour-overs obviously give you control to succeed, but for traditional machines I’ve found it critical to find one that allows a set point temperature JUST below local boiling, as well as time adjustment. The Breville Precision is my current workhorse, although I have some mixed feelings about it.
exabrial 1y ago
I lived at 10,600 feet for 6.5 weeks last summer, coming from essentially sea level. I felt like I was adjusted 90% adjusted about 2 weeks in, like I could walk at a normal speed. My Garmin watch agreed with this adaption. However, trying to mountain bike with the locals was hilarious... even at week 6 I barely started to be able to keep up on climbs. I rode my mountain bike nearly every day, or at minimum took a several mile hike Near the end I had a bender with some coworkers. I started developing a persistent "altitude" cough after that that never really went away until I got back down to sea level. The cough disappeared in 36 hours. And wow, did I feel like superman when I got back racing my peers. Did you catch the important point in my story though? I live an active life style at sea level, but man, people living in small towns in the mountains _love_ the outdoors. We were active every day of the week: riding, hiking, climbing, etc. I could definitely see how altitude helps with cardiovascular health, but it's already been proven that leading an active lifestyle is one of the most amazing things you can do for your health and happiness.
- tim333 1y ago
  I was thinking there's probably a correlation between high altitude living and getting exercise which may explain the lack of hear attacks. My main high living experience was the Everest area like Namche Bazaar and there are no roads or cars so everyone walks.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  > people living in small towns in the mountains _love_ the outdoors You have to. There's no activities besides outdoor activity and drinking and almost every other aspect of living in the mountains is more difficult (versus a normal, big city in a more hospitable terrain and climate). When I lived in the mountains everyone was either there for the activities, or was a drug addicted hospitality worker there because they couldn't find jobs in cities.
- kelnos 1y ago
  > And wow, did I feel like superman when I got back racing my peers. Huh, interesting. A friend of mine moved from sea level to ~6000 ft a few years ago. She said it took her a bit of time to get used to running at the new altitude, but eventually felt as comfortable with it as she had down here at sea level. I asked her if running feels easier to her at sea level now, when she comes down the mountain to visit, and she said it doesn't; it's basically the same as it used to be when she lived here. Maybe the extra 4600ft you went up to made a difference in that, and of course everyone is different, but that's still interesting to me.
nojs 1y ago
On the other hand, if it’s too high it’ll just kill your brain cells: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-thin-air/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-...
- daemonologist 1y ago
  Potentially not even so high as that. You often see 2,500 m (8,500 ft) used as the beginning of "high altitude" - at that point some studies have detected cognitive effects from long-term exposure. (10.1007/s11065-004-8159-4) A lot of research is focused more on ~4,000+ meters though due to the existence of the Tibetan Plateau.
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
When I did a 2 week road trip from Chengdu to lijiang a couple of decades ago, we spent the first two days of the trip just acclimating on the Tibetan plateau at 3000 meters or at the town near siguniang. Then we hit places like daocheng (3500 meters), we drive through passes at 5000 meters, Litang town at 4000 meters (about the height of mt rainier). The biggest problem I had was the lack of vegetables that high, my teeth really got tired of eating judt meat and potatoes. The places were all populated though with Tibetans, they just lived up there as if it was the most normal thing in the world (heck, litang had 60k people living at 4k meters, that seemed crazy to me).
akshitgaur2005 1y ago
I am originally from the Himalayas (Garhwal specifically), although not quite as high as in the article, my village is at 5000 ft and damn did I have a shock when I took my desi friends up there (desi means people from the Indo-Gangetic plains, I unfortunately had to come to New Delhi for college and you can imagine the contrast!). While in Delhi, I am one of the more unathletic nerds, but as soon as we were in the mountains, these guys were no match for me! Roads are still very few and far in between in my region so you have to walk a lot, and these guys were getting tired on paths even small children and 80 year olds have no problem completing!
- akshitgaur2005 1y ago
  I really do wonder how big of that is a genetic factor and how big just being more acclimated to the altitude and the region?
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    It sounds like you didn’t lose your acclimation while away at school?
    - akshitgaur2005 1y ago
      Well it has only been 2 years, and I actually grew up in the plains, but keep going back to my village for atleast a month each year
- sirtaj 1y ago
  Ask a Himachali person how far something is and it's always "just around the next hill." Another couple of hours of walking and you"ll still get the same answer.
- fy20 1y ago
  I visited the region around Dharamshala last year which is the same altitude (1500m) and was somewhat surprised I did not notice any effects of the altitude. My whole life (nearly 40) I've been living at sea level, except for trips. I've lived mostly outside cities though so no major pollution. I'd imagine for Delhi folks the pollution must have a big effect on their lungs - but you'd think it would translate to working well for high altitude.
userbinator 1y ago
Note that 8000ft is the regulatory maximum cabin altitude in a plane, although many keep it lower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

101 points by walterbell 1y ago

If anyone watched that movie, Elevation[0], the “line of death” was 8,000 feet. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(film)

handzhiev 1y ago
The line of death is at 8,000 meters, not feet
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
  Nope. Feet. At least, that's what I remember from the film, and the Wikipedia page says "feet." Also, I don't know if the Rockies have a 25,000-foot mountain (I think the Andes do, though). Us Americans are kinda awkward about measurement units...
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    Even that’s a stretch. The highest peak in the Andes, is Mount Aconcagua, which is just under 7,000 meters. That’s the highest point in the Western Hemisphere.

ljsprague 1y ago

Just don't try to have a baby up there.

leoh 1y ago
Why not?
- deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
  I would guess OP is referring to the association with lowered birth weight due to chronic hypoxia: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7050200/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7050200/

MitPitt 1y ago

On the contrary, do people who live high above for years have any trouble when coming back down?

danielvaughn 1y ago

I grew up in Memphis TN but lived in Boulder CO for a few years. I worked at a hospital in both cities; my job was checking people into the ER. In Memphis, I’d probably see 7-10 heart related issues a day, with about 2-3 of them being actual heart attacks. Every single day. By contrast, in Boulder I saw maybe 1-2 heart attacks a year. It was absolutely astounding. Now, there could be some confounding variables like income/education/exercise/diet. But like another poster said, high altitude places seem to bring out more activity in us.

rubidium 1y ago
You have experience in 2 very different places demographically. High altitude may be on the list of factors but I would guess it’s pretty far down. Boulder is a small college town of mostly affluent younger people. Memphis is an urban city in a hot climate that is older, poorer, and in the middle of the section of the US that has some of the worst health overall.
e40 1y ago
Boulder is one of the most fit places in the country. Lowest obesity rates, as you would expect from the first statement.

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justinc8687 1y ago

I lived in Breckenridge (9,600ft) for a few winters post college. Before college, when I had last been to CO, I didn't get any altitude sickness. Post college, I discovered (by blacking out on the slopes at Vail) that I now got bad altitude sickness. It now takes me almost 2 weeks to aclimate, but once I do, boy, is it amazing. The most fun time was when I flew home to the East Coast after being there 4 months. I felt like absolute Superman. So much energy, barely needed any sleep! I only wish those effects lasted more than 5 days...

zeristor 1y ago

Higher UV… Theoretically solar cells designed for more more UV intensity could produce quite a lot more electricity. I imagine solar panels for space craft are designed with this in mind. Of course the economics of this, that there’s only a few places where this is useful wouldn’t justify it all.

arminiusreturns 1y ago

I grew up in the mountains at about 8500 ft, but was often spending my freetime at higher elevations surrounding the village. There are lots of little things about living at high altitude people don't think about, such as cooking times and quirks, sealed containers exploding when going up, etc. My favorite has to be just how superhuman (when I was in my prime) going down to low elevation made me feel. The biggest issue people don't talk about? Remote high alt places often become unlivable for people when they get elderly due to altitude interference in certain medical conditions, and the general distance away from hospitals. I miss the mountains so much all the time, and hope to retire back up there.

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cadre_78 1y ago

I spent time in Lhasa, it sits at 12k. It was like another world. High altitude isn't forgiving either. My (62) father was with me and didn't make it home.

jedberg 1y ago

My in-laws have a timeshare at 8300 feet. The first couple of days we have to take it easy and drink a ton of water, but then we kinda get used to it. And definitely feel superhuman when we return to sea level! The hardest part is getting used to cooking at the elevation.

bigmadshoe 1y ago
Super curious, what’s different about cooking in your experience?
- vvladymyrov 1y ago
  Water boils at lower temperature because of lower pressure at higher altitude. As a result cooking is different - normal recipes don’t work as expected. From my personal anecdotal experience even grilling somehow is different at 8000ft.

pcrh 1y ago

8,000 ft (2,400 meters) isn't particularly high. Millions of people live at that altitude. It's extremely common for people to go on a skiing vacation at that altitude or above, up to maybe 4,000 meters, and not need to take any particular precautions. As to comments here about days resting while progressing to higher altitudes, such as in the Himalayas. A day or two will mostly result in adjustments in the water balance of your blood. It takes about 10 days to two weeks for your bone marrow to start producing additional red blood cells to compensate for the lower level of oxygen in the air. High level altitude sickness is more complex and relates to multiple factors, including fluid balance, the health of one's vasculature and lungs, etc. It is certainly the case that populations that have lived at high altitudes in the Himalayas or Andes for thousands of years have evolved adaptations that make such living easier.

bdangubic 1y ago
> Millions of people live at that altitude Millions isn’t that many people :)
- jslakro 1y ago
  Tens of millions (Bogotá, Quito, La Paz), to be specific
kelnos 1y ago
Yeah, I spend a decent amount of time during the year at 6500-7000 feet (and live at sea level for the rest of the year). There's always an acclimation period when I first get there, but it's nowhere near as severe as the article suggests. I'm fine going right to the gym or whatever when I get there; I don't need a few days of rest first. In the winter I'll spend hours of the day up at 8000-9000 feet, and yes, I get winded easier, but I'm otherwise fine. I'm in my 40s, so while I'm not old, I'm not young either. I think the highest up I've ever been for any solid amount of time was 10,500 feet, and sure, I could tell the difference, but it wasn't debilitating or anything remotely like that, and I could do moderate-plus physical activity without anything bad happening. I've also been up to 15,000 feet (Salkantay Pass in Peru) for a very short time, and definitely felt it. A few people in my hiking group had to take some medicine, and one or two availed themselves of camels. But I would also consider this hike a high-exertion activity; they were fine when we took a break for a while and relaxed. But I'm just not convinced that most (generally healthy!) people need that much acclimation before doing day-to-day tasks, including regular levels of exercise.

yrcyrc 1y ago

Worked for four months as a mountain bike guide on the death road in La Paz. 3600 meters to 4800 getting to the start of the road to about 1000 meters each day, and back. I believe I made many blood cells and nearly died 3 times

ruicraveiro 1y ago

There's an old aviation adage that says that time spent flying isn't deductible from one's lifespan. This article supports that. :-)

lazyant 1y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Rinconada,_Peru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Rinconada,_Peru at 5,100 m (16,700 ft) is the highest town in the world. Locals play soccer on the street after working all day at the mines, visitors need oxygen tanks.

rc_kas 1y ago

Wait that was super short. I liked this article I wanted it to be longer.

sparrish 1y ago

I wonder if they're confusing the cause and effect. Do people who live above 8k feet not die of heart disease or do people with heart disease find it too difficult to live above 8k feet so only people without heart disease live above 8k feet? I live at 7200 feet and I know several people who have moved to lower altitudes because it's "too hard to breath" here.

leetrout 1y ago
I visited Mexico City a couple weeks ago and it is at 7200 feet. As I got off the plane I was gasping a bit and I woke up 3 or 4 times the first night gasping for air. I didn't have any problems visiting Denver at 5000 feet in years past but I was absolutely feeling it at 7200. I didn't stay long enough to see if I would acclimate as I continued to feel bad and returned home early.
- petesergeant 1y ago
  I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Mexico City and SMA, and the first time was definitely the worst; lots of shortness of breath and walking seemed much harder there than other places. My 75 year-old mother had no issues at all when she came to visit tho
- CGMthrowaway 1y ago
  There are reasons to be gasping for air in Mexico City that don't have to do with the altitude.. has terrible air quality
- WalterBright 1y ago
  My dad visited Machu Picchu. He was doing poorly and the guides put him on oxygen. They were well prepared for it, as it happens a lot and is not very predictable. It's at 8,000 feet. I remember staying overnight at Estes Park, 7500 feet. I got a headache. I didn't try anything strenuous. I recall reading about Mt Everest climbs. Even on supplemental oxygen, your brain measurably dies a little. No thanks. People who climb it repeatedly are, in my not-so-humble opinion, idiots.

bix6 1y ago

> The best defense is to start at 5,000 feet and stay there for 3 days, drinking water like crazy and resting. Then, come up to the higher elevation and give yourself a day or two to adjust. That usually works. This is crazy to me as I usually only get 1 acclimation night in before going up. I’m curious how people can find their limits / needs?

Syzygies 1y ago
I met Charles Snead Houston, who lead the first two American attempts on K2 and became a doctor. (He fell the furthest in "The Belay", the most famous belay in mountaineering history.) He asked me to explain my work on card shuffling, so we traded. He taught me about altitude sickness, for which he was the foremost expert. I then read his books before my own mountaineering, and his advice worked for me. In a nutshell, where you sleep matters. 7,000' is free, and a conservative pace is to sleep 1,000' feet higher each night. (Good luck finding a Kilimanjaro ascent that climbs that slowly, but have you met anyone who was comfortable at the summit?) My wife's brother lives at 10,000'. As it happens the last hotel is at 8,500'. One night does the trick for her.
- mylifeandtimes 1y ago
  I'm interested in your work on card shuffling. Or perhaps you could point me to a starter website? Alas, I don't have much to trade for it except respect.
  - mos_basik 1y ago
    I'm also curious - I found this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40895185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40895185

kaonwarb 1y ago

As a child I lived for two years at ~11k ft (La Paz, Bolivia). I can vouch for the impact of both Acute Mountain Sickness and the sun at that elevation.

Rendello 1y ago
I first learned about La Paz and its even higher-elevation sibling city El Alto from this video [1] about their new cable car transportation network [1][2]. I then spent a few hours on Google Maps and Youtube looking at El Alto up close, what a fascinating and different world up there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5126u88E7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5126u88E7E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi_Telef%C3%A9rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi_Telef%C3%A9rico

tonkinai 1y ago

"Living at high altitude reduces risk of dying from heart disease", but you're litereally locked in your house because the sun takes every chance to fry you. I'm okay with not reducing my risk of dying from heart disease.

randomfool 1y ago
So easy to protect from the sun and the reward in the mountains is so wonderful. Terrible waste to stay locked in. Wouldn’t be surprised if this were another contributor to less heart disease- so much incentive to get outside and do stuff.
IncreasePosts 1y ago
No, you just wear long sleeve shirts and a hat.

purpleflame1257 1y ago

One other fun thing about living at altitude is that the recipes you use need to be redesigned because the boiling point of water is lower.

addaon 1y ago
Very asymmetrically, too. There's a (relatively) small impact on cooking grains and pasta and stuff, but even at 5000 ft where I live beans can easily take 2x as long to cook. It's a challenge.
- LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
  Have you tried baking bread? Pizza dough? Some surprises wait :)
- eichin 1y ago
  Hmm, is coffee a problem? (some of the extraction depends on temperature, but if water boils before reaching that temperature then the extraction wouldn't work...)
  - jillesvangurp 1y ago
    Espresso machines work at high pressures (8-9 bar) so it's less of an issue with those. I went up to the observatory on Mont Blanc a few years ago and had an espresso there. That's 3500 meter. I definitely was out of breath. The coffee was fine.
  - addaon 1y ago
    Coffee takes compensation, but even ambient pressure extraction can be tuned for great results — Denver and Boulder have good coffee scenes, for example. The bigger challenge is that Mr Coffee style brewers (bubble pump) have no way to adjust extraction time; and some fancier brewers try to closed-loop control temperature, and end up boiling the water continuously while brewing. Pour-overs obviously give you control to succeed, but for traditional machines I’ve found it critical to find one that allows a set point temperature JUST below local boiling, as well as time adjustment. The Breville Precision is my current workhorse, although I have some mixed feelings about it.

exabrial 1y ago

I lived at 10,600 feet for 6.5 weeks last summer, coming from essentially sea level. I felt like I was adjusted 90% adjusted about 2 weeks in, like I could walk at a normal speed. My Garmin watch agreed with this adaption. However, trying to mountain bike with the locals was hilarious... even at week 6 I barely started to be able to keep up on climbs. I rode my mountain bike nearly every day, or at minimum took a several mile hike Near the end I had a bender with some coworkers. I started developing a persistent "altitude" cough after that that never really went away until I got back down to sea level. The cough disappeared in 36 hours. And wow, did I feel like superman when I got back racing my peers. Did you catch the important point in my story though? I live an active life style at sea level, but man, people living in small towns in the mountains _love_ the outdoors. We were active every day of the week: riding, hiking, climbing, etc. I could definitely see how altitude helps with cardiovascular health, but it's already been proven that leading an active lifestyle is one of the most amazing things you can do for your health and happiness.

tim333 1y ago
I was thinking there's probably a correlation between high altitude living and getting exercise which may explain the lack of hear attacks. My main high living experience was the Everest area like Namche Bazaar and there are no roads or cars so everyone walks.
dismalaf 1y ago
> people living in small towns in the mountains _love_ the outdoors You have to. There's no activities besides outdoor activity and drinking and almost every other aspect of living in the mountains is more difficult (versus a normal, big city in a more hospitable terrain and climate). When I lived in the mountains everyone was either there for the activities, or was a drug addicted hospitality worker there because they couldn't find jobs in cities.
kelnos 1y ago
> And wow, did I feel like superman when I got back racing my peers. Huh, interesting. A friend of mine moved from sea level to ~6000 ft a few years ago. She said it took her a bit of time to get used to running at the new altitude, but eventually felt as comfortable with it as she had down here at sea level. I asked her if running feels easier to her at sea level now, when she comes down the mountain to visit, and she said it doesn't; it's basically the same as it used to be when she lived here. Maybe the extra 4600ft you went up to made a difference in that, and of course everyone is different, but that's still interesting to me.

nojs 1y ago

On the other hand, if it’s too high it’ll just kill your brain cells: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-thin-air/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-cells-into-...

daemonologist 1y ago
Potentially not even so high as that. You often see 2,500 m (8,500 ft) used as the beginning of "high altitude" - at that point some studies have detected cognitive effects from long-term exposure. (10.1007/s11065-004-8159-4) A lot of research is focused more on ~4,000+ meters though due to the existence of the Tibetan Plateau.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago

When I did a 2 week road trip from Chengdu to lijiang a couple of decades ago, we spent the first two days of the trip just acclimating on the Tibetan plateau at 3000 meters or at the town near siguniang. Then we hit places like daocheng (3500 meters), we drive through passes at 5000 meters, Litang town at 4000 meters (about the height of mt rainier). The biggest problem I had was the lack of vegetables that high, my teeth really got tired of eating judt meat and potatoes. The places were all populated though with Tibetans, they just lived up there as if it was the most normal thing in the world (heck, litang had 60k people living at 4k meters, that seemed crazy to me).

akshitgaur2005 1y ago

I am originally from the Himalayas (Garhwal specifically), although not quite as high as in the article, my village is at 5000 ft and damn did I have a shock when I took my desi friends up there (desi means people from the Indo-Gangetic plains, I unfortunately had to come to New Delhi for college and you can imagine the contrast!). While in Delhi, I am one of the more unathletic nerds, but as soon as we were in the mountains, these guys were no match for me! Roads are still very few and far in between in my region so you have to walk a lot, and these guys were getting tired on paths even small children and 80 year olds have no problem completing!

akshitgaur2005 1y ago
I really do wonder how big of that is a genetic factor and how big just being more acclimated to the altitude and the region?
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  It sounds like you didn’t lose your acclimation while away at school?
  - akshitgaur2005 1y ago
    Well it has only been 2 years, and I actually grew up in the plains, but keep going back to my village for atleast a month each year
sirtaj 1y ago
Ask a Himachali person how far something is and it's always "just around the next hill." Another couple of hours of walking and you"ll still get the same answer.
fy20 1y ago
I visited the region around Dharamshala last year which is the same altitude (1500m) and was somewhat surprised I did not notice any effects of the altitude. My whole life (nearly 40) I've been living at sea level, except for trips. I've lived mostly outside cities though so no major pollution. I'd imagine for Delhi folks the pollution must have a big effect on their lungs - but you'd think it would translate to working well for high altitude.

userbinator 1y ago

Note that 8000ft is the regulatory maximum cabin altitude in a plane, although many keep it lower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization