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Political issues aside, Tesla has a variety problem. If we converge the split between midrange and premium, their lineup consists of a midsize sedan, a midsize
by cosmic_cheese 1y ago
Political issues aside, Tesla has a variety problem. If we converge the split between midrange and premium, their lineup consists of a midsize sedan, a midsize SUV, and a niche truck.
Early on this was in their favor, but with more automakers entering the fray with serious attempts to compete, they’re going to have to add at least a couple more models to reman competitive: something in the vein of a Chevy Bolt on one end and an SUV that’s the next step up in size from the Y/X on the other. A more conventional truck that more directly competes with the F-150 also couldn’t hurt.
- rcdemski 1y agoAgain, politics aside, I just find the lineup boring. Every model outside the Cybertruck looks like a ten year old car. Even the refresh of the model Y is still reskinning a design language started with the Model S, but with any interesting soul stripped out to reduce cost. The nerd in me loves the technology, particularly behind the scenes features of the Cybertruck like 48v architecture. In the end I want to drive something that feels like it has a soul and substance. Teslas lineup right now is not that.
- rayiner 1y agoMy wife thinks they all look like jellybeans. Tesla makes them like that to maximize efficiency, and they’re still #1 on that metric, but people don’t care about that.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoToyota has done quite well by maximizing efficiency.
- nemomarx 1y agoI think the target audience for a Toyota or Honda (boring but reliable car) isn't very interested in the kind of quality control Tesla has. They're supposed to make up for that in other features and the unique style of the truck is part of that, in theory.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoThe people I see with Model 3 and Y are the ones who came from Camrys and Rav4. Tesla EVs have the most data to support their reliability (at least the 3/Y), and they are clearly very reliable. Plus it costs just as much as a Rav 4, but has tons more torque. And the software is much better even though it lacks Carplay.
- otterley 1y agoIf Elon’s antics didn’t already turn me off as a Tesla customer, lack of CarPlay support slammed the coffin shut completely.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoI thought that too, and then Toyota wanted $15 per month for remote start and made it seem like they were doing me a favor when I went to buy a car, so I ended up with a Tesla. Ended up not missing Carplay, and it cost $20k less for a car that seats 5 adults and 2 kids.
- armadsen 1y agoI think the current Prius PHEV looks much better than any Tesla right now. (It’s a plugin hybrid not a pure EV, of course.)
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoThe current Prius is legitimately cool looking. Hard to believe it’s the same family that had been lampooned for its design for most of its existence.
- neilv 1y agoIMHO, Toyota did an awesome job of taking the 2004 Prius funny wedge compact eco-nerd-mobile look (which might have been exactly what it needed at the time), and making it look sleek and modern and powerful. I'm imagining a designer looking at the earlier windshield slant, and knowing they could work with that, and retain references to the iconic earlier design.
- DoesntMatter22 1y agoI don't know the model y is the best selling car in the world so it seems like it worked pretty well
- morleytj 1y agoIs it? I thought it was overtaken by the RAV4 a while back.
- mh- 1y agoAnd if we're including the RAV4, then you probably also need to include Chevy and Ford's pickup offerings, which would also be far ahead of any Tesla. (And yes, a quick google confirms[0] the RAV4 is ahead of any Tesla offering this year.) [0]: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars-2025/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars... edit: see replies, this is US-only.
- sqrt_1 1y agoLooking at your link, it seems to be US only stats? Best selling in 2024 world wide was Model Y even including trucks? https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-worlds-best-selling-cars-from-2024/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-worlds-best-sell...
- mh- 1y agoInteresting. I can't see the source for the data in your link (it cites Statista, but that's just a graph and requires a subscription to see the source data.) Not saying it's wrong (I have no idea, that's why I googled), but would be interesting to know. edit: but also, you're right that I inadvertently looked at US-only data. I did say it was a quick Google. :) Edited my original comment.
- breve 1y agoThe RAV4 outsold it in 2024: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/felipe-munoz-carindustryanalysis_carindustryanalysis-felipemunoz-automotive-activity-7343853518803382272-WLM9/ https://www.linkedin.com/posts/felipe-munoz-carindustryanaly... The more interesting stat is that Toyota has 5 of the top 10 best selling cars.
- SoftTalker 1y agoAll cars made in the last 20 years look like that. It’s wind tunnel design, there’s only one optimal overall shape that a car can have.
- hyperadvanced 1y agoI have seen this described as “looksmaxxing for cars” and I can’t unsee it now.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tomjakubowski 1y agoit's effiencymaxxing. automotive looksmaxxing peaked in the 80s, the decade when new car designs looked the best
- jacquesm 1y agoCitroen DS, Jaguar e-type, Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale, MB Gullwing, BMW 507 and a whole raft of other 50's, 60's and 70's cars look much better than anything that I even remember designed in the 80's. Of course that's just my opinion, but those cars are so iconic, do you have any particular cars in mind for that period which you really liked?
- dragontamer 1y agoThe new Prius has a similar coefficient of drag as a Tesla Model 3 but the Prius manages to look a LOT better.
- tromp 1y agoThe 2024 Prius has a drag coefficient of 0.27 (slightly worse than the previous generation's 0.26), which compares poorly with the Model 3's 0.22.
- radpanda 1y agoMy understanding is that the Lucid Air Pure is more efficient than Tesla’s offerings, but yes, Teslas have tended to be more efficient than compliance BEVs and a lot of other efforts from legacy automakers.
- tromp 1y agoWith a coefficient of 0.219, they're not even in the top 10 on that metric. China seems to be making the most aerodynamic cars now: 0.191 Dongfeng Xinghai S7 0.194 XPeng Mona M03 0.195 Xiaomi SU7 Pro 0.197 Lucid Air Pure I'm looking forward to the Mona coming to Europe next year https://cnevpost.com/2025/09/09/xpeng-launch-mona-series-europe-2026/ https://cnevpost.com/2025/09/09/xpeng-launch-mona-series-eur...
- Fomite 1y agoThis. None of them make me go "Damn, that's a good looking car..." any more than a number of others. The Cybertruck is just am embarrassment, design wise.
- stirfish 1y agoI wonder if the politics will impact the designs in the long run, as Tesla becomes a less desirable place to work
- somedude895 1y ago[flagged]
- brewdad 1y agoWith every insane X post Musk makes we get closer to where having Tesla on your resume is a black mark the same way folks are judging Meta employees in the other thread. When the politics are that front and center, it becomes a real liability to the company.
- hyperadvanced 1y agoOTOH, Cybertruck is one of the only original car designs in modern memory. It’s dumb as hell, but I like it. That said, I have no idea who it’s for, I wouldn’t buy one. But I respect them for designing such a ridiculous vehicle, and for it actually being able to sell, albeit somewhat poorly compared to expectations. I say all of this as a recent $TSLA bear with a healthy short position.
- bdangubic 1y agoshorting TSLA is never smart because TSLA investors are not driven by any rhyme or reason. Elon is the greatest salesman to ever live and people have been buying his sh*t for decade+ now. if TSLA was a reasonable company investment-wise I would mortgage my house to short the shit out of it :)
- jerlam 1y agoIf Teslas were durable, built well, easily repairable, with strong aftermarket support, I would applaud them for sticking with the same bland design instead of endlessly tweaking it like every other car and tech company in a misguided effort to stay "fresh". However the opposite has occurred where Teslas appear to be bland, poorly made, and unrepairable.
- more_corn 1y ago[flagged]
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoNot trying to justify or excuse any of that, just wanted to focus on the anemic model lineup problem which is piled on top of Tesla’s other problems.
- kachapopopow 1y agoNo reason to focus on politics - if it wasn't elon musk nobody would care cared that it was two pathetic attempts at it, you start at 90 degree angle from your heart, not flat on your chest.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- lumost 1y agoThe jump between the X and Y is too big. It’s more or less a 50-100% price increase depending on how you look at it. The Y is very small for the SUV form factor, and the X is very expensive. I have to imagine that there is a market for something between the two.
- cogman10 1y agoThe problem is that the X isn't a particularly large SUV. The X is slightly wider and about 1ft longer. And in many ways it's inferior to the Y. Tesla's mega casting and structural pack gives the Y excellent range and a lower weight for a cheaper battery. I think the reason Tesla hasn't done mega casting and structural packs for the other lineups (besides the equipment costs) is because it'd make them eat into the revenue of the top tier models. A model 3 cutting down several hundred pounds would be range competitive with the model S. The shorter range LFP batteries could still land you in previously long range land.
- alasdair_ 1y agoThe issue is the X is still a small SUV. We have one and ended up buying a Rivian as well because it has a lot more useful space than the X.
- stingraycharles 1y agoThey haven’t released anything decent since the Model 3, which was a massive success. It’s baffling to me that they’re now betting the company on robotics, rather than improving and extending their existing lineup of cars.
- CharlesW 1y agoThe Model 3 was released in 2017 (!).
- johnnyanmac 1y agoI know the Cybertruck as a "release" is stretching it, but it technically did release. Prematurely, 100%. But it's out there. The QC on the Cybertruck pretty much shows why they lost their brand power over the years, though. Even when ignoring the politics.
- amluto 1y agoI’m waiting for owners to discover water damage in the equipment under the hood liner: Cybertruck’s lack a scuttle/cowl/gutter [0] to collect and divert water from the bottom of the windshield. Basically every car ever has one, except the Cybertruck. This isn’t a QC problem — it’s just poor design. [0] I’m not sure anyone agrees what it’s called.
- wilg 1y agoI wouldn't be surprised to learn that they simply solved this problem a different way.
- masklinn 1y agoThe cybertruck cleared “released”, what it failed is “decent”. > The QC Was never Tesla’s forte.
- DoesntMatter22 1y agoThe model Y is the best selling car in the world, so this statement doesn't really make sense
- hammock 1y ago> Tesla has a variety problem. If we converge the split between midrange and premium, their lineup consists of a midsize sedan, a midsize SUV, and a niche truck I don’t know if you have checked out other OEMs lineups lately…Ford doesn’t even make a sedan anymore. That’s right. Just SUVs and trucks. And mustang supercar. Other OEMs have similarly trimmed their lineups. You can thank CAFE er al for that.
- dghlsakjg 1y agoFord makes plenty of sedans. It doesn't sell any in Canada or its neighbour. Don't forget that about the other 95% of the people on earth
- mitthrowaway2 1y agoArticle is about US market share, so it's reasonable to infer that the GP is referring to their competition in that market.
- radpanda 1y ago> Ford makes plenty of sedans Does it? Since they stopped building the Mondeo in Europe they don’t sell any sedans there or in most places I’m aware of. The only Ford sedan I’m aware of in production anywhere is the Chinese-market Ford Mondeo built in a joint venture with Changan.
- shermantanktop 1y agoBut what will Mondeo Man drive??
- orwin 1y agothey discontinued the Ford focus or changed it to an SUV? Shame.
- ndiddy 1y agoFord stopped selling all passenger vehicles besides the Mustang in the US in 2018, and 2025 will be the last model year for the Focus worldwide.
- decimalenough 1y agoThe six-seater Model Y L, which has already been launched in China, fills in that "SUV that's the next step up in size" gap. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_Y_L https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_Y_L But yes, I fully agree that deprioritizing/stopping the low-cost "Model 2" was a major mistake. Particularly with tariffs keeping Chinese EVs out, Tesla could have pretty much owned the space in the US. (Although Elon's DOGE antics would still have alienated a large portion of the customer base.)
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoAs things stand, assuming that Nissan can manage to remain afloat, that “Model 2” market segment is going to be snapped up by the 2026 Leaf, which will start at ~$25k before incentives and is just a touch bigger than the Bolt EUV was and comes with NACS, fast charging, and a properly cooled battery. There’s little in the US EV market that comes close to competing at that price range. Keep in mind that these things will be built in Japan and imported. I’m sure Tesla could’ve figured out some way to have an offering the same price or cheaper.
- rtpg 1y ago> Keep in mind that these things will be built in Japan and imported. I’m sure Tesla could’ve figured out some way to have an offering the same price or cheaper. Seeing US salaries and the strength of the US dollar (and the weakness of the yen right now!)... I wonder. At one point I don't know how you can be competitive with factories abroad. This is where protectionism comes in I guess!
- adrr 1y agoStill the best EVs on the market in terms of range, performance and price(in the US). Chevy bolt competitor wouldn’t make sense because Chevy couldn’t even make the chevy bolt work and stopped production 2023. EV trucks don’t make sense at all, they can’t tow unless you want to recharge every 100 miles. Also range is severely reduced offroading. I don’t get why auto manufacturers keep pushing them on the public. Tesla has image problem. Y refresh is getting praise. Edmunds says its the best car they’ve driven in 2025. It should be selling like hotcakes. I don’t think anything is fixing Tesla unless they fire musk.
- laweijfmvo 1y agoEV trucks do make sense, because most people (in the US) want a truck and don’t tow anything.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoBattery tech is rapidly improving too, which will offset the hit to range that towing involves. Best to get the designs and manufacturing figured out to be ready for the day that battery tech arrives.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoThe Bolt is coming back. Chevy’s reason for discontinuing it wasn’t that it didn’t sell, but that the platform was outdated. The new one is on their current platform and roughly analogous to the old EUV model. Pricing is another question though, and no CarPlay/AA while also coming from an old guard auto manufacturer means no sale from me.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoBeing a GM product, the Bolt won’t have CarPlay either.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoThat’s what I said.
- johnnyanmac 1y agoI don't know why we're putting politics aside. I'm sure those political escapades didn't help in cratering their stock. All companies are trying to cut on variety right now. Of course, a software service used daily won't be hit as hard as a mid-class car company. Heck, even the affordable car companies are charging mid tier prices these days. The results are clear if things don't change.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago> I don't know why we're putting politics aside. I'm sure those political escapades didn't help in cratering their stock. I fully agree, I just wanted to focus specifically on how their offerings are lackluster even if there weren’t other problems.
- atomicnumber3 1y agoWe're putting aside the political stuff because there isn't a lot to discuss. You're either cool with it, or Tesla is completely off the table. And nobody will likely be switching camps at this point.
- johnnyanmac 1y agoCan someone be cool with it but also admit that it definitely affected the market share? I can do that with Bud Weiser's trans campaign, even if I agree with it.
- watwut 1y agoThey had no trans campaing. There was a single short video with a single personalized can. Calling it campaign is just validating conservative lies again. Truth is, a single trans got a can of beer with own face, made short video and rught wing decided to make it into a campaing, because trans must be destroyed. That is it.
- andriesm 1y agoVery expensive beer! That six pack cost them a lot of market share. But I think the wishy washy interview with the marketing person in charge of that decision did not exactly help, with the typical beer chugging target demo.
- aorloff 1y agoManufacturing is about cash flow If they were not hurting super bad, they would have a factory tooling up for Roadster2 I assume the cyberflop is the missing revenue they needed to keep the flywheel going
- TheAlchemist 1y agoThis is very true. Tesla sales growth was already slowing day significantly before Musk showed who he really is to the wider public. There was no way they were hitting their announced target - they were supposedly going to do +50% each year until 2030, and end up selling 20M cars / year. They dropped this prediction in 2024, before 'political issues'...
- duxup 1y agoWith more competition I'm not sure they have the room to do things different enough to really stand out like they used to. Tesla had a whole "this is the future" thing going on for a while and now it's the past and I'm not sure there's a lot of future to sell in that space anymore, or at least not by them.