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Posts like this are just pure noise. Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against

Posts like this are just pure noise. Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. Maybe in the US (I dont personally live there so I couldnt care!) but over here in Europe its not that straight forward.

frizlab 1y ago
> Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. They can, and have been.
webdevver 1y ago
>Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? Many people enjoy writing code 'manually' too. But overwhelmingly, people opt to have LLMs write most of it for them. There is no way in hell I'm ever reading api docs or writing python scripts by hand ever again with gemini, unless gemini craps the bed and i'm forced to do so. listen man i'm a petrol head too... look, when FSD comes out as-standard, this turning-the-steering-wheel malarky is done-zo. its over. yes theres people who enjoy driving a car, but if you offerd people full self driving in every car with no price premium, 99% of the population would never touch a steering wheel again. >but over here in Europe bro, Europeans love daddy government to come and ** their ** up. all you have to do is tell the euro "FSD decreases traffic accidents by 5%!" and they will do the policing themselves. I can already hear it: "erm excuse me, is your car not FSD? you know, you're endangering myself and others by driving that on the road, right? do you have a license for your manually-operated car?"
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
lenerdenator 1y ago
> Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. Maybe in the US (I dont personally live there so I couldnt care!) but over here in Europe its not that straight forward. It would be even less straightforward in the US than in Europe. Many cities are 100% car-dependent.
throw0101d 1y ago
> Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? 1. Not as many as you think, IMHO. 2. Those folks can perhaps not turn on the self-driving feature. 3. Even those that do may have times where it is a chore (stop-and-go traffic). > Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. If self-driving can be shown to be statistically safer than hour human-driving then your insurance company may offer you discounts for always using it. No government regulation needed: those bearing the risks will incentivize you to do the less risk-y thing.
seberino 1y ago
Some people also love riding horses, making their own clothes and hunting for their own food. None of that changes the march of technology for the majority. The plain fact is there are too many benefits to self driving cars like price and safety.
- utyop22 1y ago
  Imagine comparing driving a car to riding horses, lmao!
Jcampuzano2 1y ago
To be fair, there are many things that people 'enjoy' to do that are illegal or not allowed or regulated heavily. Just because you enjoy something doesn't make it the right thing to do or allow. This as a person who does not believe Tesla has the right formula to actually achieve FSD and that a pure vision approach would never work in the way they want it to (no interventions, all weather, etc). There will come a time when technology advances enough that self driving with be an order of magnitude safer than human driving, and we will have to battle with the fact that allowing humans to do so will be objectively worse for society. That may not actually be anytime soon, but it may happen.
davidmurdoch 1y ago
Interesting perception. Here in the US it's unfathomable to think a regulation that doesn't allow people to drive cars would ever receive a single vote. It wouldn't happen. Citizens here would revolt and politicians in support would quite literally be murdered over this. People here really love driving their cars. Yes, to an insane degree. But from my news bubble, and my perception of much of Europe... it seems to me that it is very likely a regulation like this would happen in Europe, probably through a well-meaning green initiative. Funny how perceptions of others can be so drastically different!
- utyop22 1y ago
  The US as it stands is a dictatorship, that thankfully, has some checks and balances to control Mr Trump. One only has to watch that recent White House dinner of the Big Tech figures getting together (minus Scamath) and the forceful nature in which Mr Trump made Zuck and Cook issue statements of large investment amounts. Nothing of that nature goes in Europe, at least not so blatantly.
- ryanwaggoner 1y ago
  We're decades away from no one being allowed to drive manually, but people don't actually like driving. They like the autonomy of a car. That's not the same thing. If there's a button in people's cars that they can push and then play on their phone for the rest of the trip, 99% of people are going to push that button. And after a few years of that, and insurance rates being higher for manual driving, we'll start seeing some areas be automated-driving only, which will then expand...
  - davidmurdoch 1y ago
    I don't think you've been deep in car culture or just disregard them as a minority group. This minority would become extremely vocal if manual driving were to be regulated by the government. Insurance incentivization is another matter; they're used to that already.
    - utyop22 1y ago
axus 1y ago
There are many people who live in dread of sudden large repair bills obstructing their ability to make a living. When drivers are no longer a prerequisite, there can be large competing fleets of ride services. Getting a ride on-demand with no down payment and lower annual cost will be attractive to a lot of people.
nartho 1y ago
Not that it's currently possible, but having the infrastructure designed around self driving cars (meaning the road and signs themselves are built to communicate useful information to the car ) and the network of cars communicating with each other, we could achieve high speeds, smooth insertion in traffic etc. The benefits would be stopping congestion in cities, reducing pollution as well as reducing/eliminating car crashes In that case, there would be absolutely no way we could allow manual driving. The benefits are just too great. Obviously I'm talking about a best case scenario where things actually work as they should.
- utyop22 1y ago
  You do realise this is never going to happen? Especially not with countries that are already running on budget deficits. If you want the roads to be privatised (whom then eventually will setup tolls) be my guest... but leave me out of it lmao.
  - nartho 1y ago
    I don't have a crystal ball no. Infrastructure evolves thankfully, that's the purpose of taxes.
    - utyop22 1y ago
      Yeah taxes are nice. Especially when running on a budget deficit. Where is the funding for all this coming from again? Remind me why councils for example in the UK, are broke and barely investing in this stuff? Ah... yeah. Lets get real.
Supermancho 1y ago
I'm not saying your gut feeling is incorrect, but these arguments aren't compelling. > Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? This has nothing to do with industry. Calculators were actually a PAID position and they went away, regardless of the number of people that enjoy mathalons. > Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. This is incorrect, historically and practically. Roads and highways, in an economic metaphor, are rivers of money. They provide capital velocity as well as smoothing labor and consumer availability. Due to the economy of scale, mass transportation and self locomotion is the only practical transport for people at the highest densities. GOODS, on the other hand, require a powered engine to move in and out. Those stacks of soda can't be transported by subway. The sodas produce trash, that also can't travel by subway. Roads themselves and trucking, in general, have kept personal vehicles in service. Cars still exist in London and New York, over a century later for this very reason. Motorized bikes dominate many cities in Asia. I can see that becoming a preferred mode in western cities, over time. After that, I could also see personal driving becoming regulated out of existence (ie huge fees to run a personal vehicle in a hyper-urban area). Maybe, just maybe, grassroots political will could have pushed cars off the road (so to speak) when the climate crisis was a meager priority, but I have lost faith in that avenue.

frizlab 1y ago

> Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. They can, and have been.

webdevver 1y ago

>Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? Many people enjoy writing code 'manually' too. But overwhelmingly, people opt to have LLMs write most of it for them. There is no way in hell I'm ever reading api docs or writing python scripts by hand ever again with gemini, unless gemini craps the bed and i'm forced to do so. listen man i'm a petrol head too... look, when FSD comes out as-standard, this turning-the-steering-wheel malarky is done-zo. its over. yes theres people who enjoy driving a car, but if you offerd people full self driving in every car with no price premium, 99% of the population would never touch a steering wheel again. >but over here in Europe bro, Europeans love daddy government to come and ** their ** up. all you have to do is tell the euro "FSD decreases traffic accidents by 5%!" and they will do the policing themselves. I can already hear it: "erm excuse me, is your car not FSD? you know, you're endangering myself and others by driving that on the road, right? do you have a license for your manually-operated car?"

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

lenerdenator 1y ago

> Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. Maybe in the US (I dont personally live there so I couldnt care!) but over here in Europe its not that straight forward. It would be even less straightforward in the US than in Europe. Many cities are 100% car-dependent.

throw0101d 1y ago

> Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? 1. Not as many as you think, IMHO. 2. Those folks can perhaps not turn on the self-driving feature. 3. Even those that do may have times where it is a chore (stop-and-go traffic). > Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. If self-driving can be shown to be statistically safer than hour human-driving then your insurance company may offer you discounts for always using it. No government regulation needed: those bearing the risks will incentivize you to do the less risk-y thing.

seberino 1y ago

Some people also love riding horses, making their own clothes and hunting for their own food. None of that changes the march of technology for the majority. The plain fact is there are too many benefits to self driving cars like price and safety.

utyop22 1y ago
Imagine comparing driving a car to riding horses, lmao!

Jcampuzano2 1y ago

To be fair, there are many things that people 'enjoy' to do that are illegal or not allowed or regulated heavily. Just because you enjoy something doesn't make it the right thing to do or allow. This as a person who does not believe Tesla has the right formula to actually achieve FSD and that a pure vision approach would never work in the way they want it to (no interventions, all weather, etc). There will come a time when technology advances enough that self driving with be an order of magnitude safer than human driving, and we will have to battle with the fact that allowing humans to do so will be objectively worse for society. That may not actually be anytime soon, but it may happen.

davidmurdoch 1y ago

Interesting perception. Here in the US it's unfathomable to think a regulation that doesn't allow people to drive cars would ever receive a single vote. It wouldn't happen. Citizens here would revolt and politicians in support would quite literally be murdered over this. People here really love driving their cars. Yes, to an insane degree. But from my news bubble, and my perception of much of Europe... it seems to me that it is very likely a regulation like this would happen in Europe, probably through a well-meaning green initiative. Funny how perceptions of others can be so drastically different!

utyop22 1y ago
The US as it stands is a dictatorship, that thankfully, has some checks and balances to control Mr Trump. One only has to watch that recent White House dinner of the Big Tech figures getting together (minus Scamath) and the forceful nature in which Mr Trump made Zuck and Cook issue statements of large investment amounts. Nothing of that nature goes in Europe, at least not so blatantly.
ryanwaggoner 1y ago
We're decades away from no one being allowed to drive manually, but people don't actually like driving. They like the autonomy of a car. That's not the same thing. If there's a button in people's cars that they can push and then play on their phone for the rest of the trip, 99% of people are going to push that button. And after a few years of that, and insurance rates being higher for manual driving, we'll start seeing some areas be automated-driving only, which will then expand...
- davidmurdoch 1y ago
  I don't think you've been deep in car culture or just disregard them as a minority group. This minority would become extremely vocal if manual driving were to be regulated by the government. Insurance incentivization is another matter; they're used to that already.
  - utyop22 1y ago

axus 1y ago

There are many people who live in dread of sudden large repair bills obstructing their ability to make a living. When drivers are no longer a prerequisite, there can be large competing fleets of ride services. Getting a ride on-demand with no down payment and lower annual cost will be attractive to a lot of people.

nartho 1y ago

Not that it's currently possible, but having the infrastructure designed around self driving cars (meaning the road and signs themselves are built to communicate useful information to the car ) and the network of cars communicating with each other, we could achieve high speeds, smooth insertion in traffic etc. The benefits would be stopping congestion in cities, reducing pollution as well as reducing/eliminating car crashes In that case, there would be absolutely no way we could allow manual driving. The benefits are just too great. Obviously I'm talking about a best case scenario where things actually work as they should.

utyop22 1y ago
You do realise this is never going to happen? Especially not with countries that are already running on budget deficits. If you want the roads to be privatised (whom then eventually will setup tolls) be my guest... but leave me out of it lmao.
- nartho 1y ago
  I don't have a crystal ball no. Infrastructure evolves thankfully, that's the purpose of taxes.
  - utyop22 1y ago
    Yeah taxes are nice. Especially when running on a budget deficit. Where is the funding for all this coming from again? Remind me why councils for example in the UK, are broke and barely investing in this stuff? Ah... yeah. Lets get real.

Supermancho 1y ago

I'm not saying your gut feeling is incorrect, but these arguments aren't compelling. > Have you ever considered many people actually enjoy driving a car? This has nothing to do with industry. Calculators were actually a PAID position and they went away, regardless of the number of people that enjoy mathalons. > Regulation cannot simply be imposed on people against their will. This is incorrect, historically and practically. Roads and highways, in an economic metaphor, are rivers of money. They provide capital velocity as well as smoothing labor and consumer availability. Due to the economy of scale, mass transportation and self locomotion is the only practical transport for people at the highest densities. GOODS, on the other hand, require a powered engine to move in and out. Those stacks of soda can't be transported by subway. The sodas produce trash, that also can't travel by subway. Roads themselves and trucking, in general, have kept personal vehicles in service. Cars still exist in London and New York, over a century later for this very reason. Motorized bikes dominate many cities in Asia. I can see that becoming a preferred mode in western cities, over time. After that, I could also see personal driving becoming regulated out of existence (ie huge fees to run a personal vehicle in a hyper-urban area). Maybe, just maybe, grassroots political will could have pushed cars off the road (so to speak) when the climate crisis was a meager priority, but I have lost faith in that avenue.