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Israel committing genocide in Gaza, scholars group says

381 points by novateg 1y ago

strathmeyer 1y ago
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- artninja1988 1y ago
  here is the guardian reporting on it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committ... Or the financial times, if you prefer: https://www.ft.com/content/470b61ff-aa1c-487f-a9ae-477b5c142a53 https://www.ft.com/content/470b61ff-aa1c-487f-a9ae-477b5c142...
  - nivertech 1y ago
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    - artninja1988 1y ago
      Embarrassing edit. You need to seek help.
      - deleted 1y ago
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    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Do you not read?
      - deleted 1y ago
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- dist-epoch 1y ago
  Here you go, Israel groups saying Israel is committing genocide in a leading Israel paper: > In first, two major Israeli human rights groups accuse Israel of ‘genocide’ in Gaza https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-two-major-israeli-human-rights-groups-accuse-israel-of-genocide-in-gaza/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-two-major-israeli-hum...
  - deleted 1y ago
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- deleted 1y ago
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- omikun 1y ago
  Terrorism like Israel killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians or the US killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians? Or do you just mean the violence committed by brown people against their oppressors?
DataDaemon 1y ago
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- already 1y ago
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- jehejej 1y ago
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- Sporktacular 1y ago
  No matter how civilised the discourse, for some it's too much. Is there a way to take away the veto of any 10 people who don't like what they see?
  - Sporktacular 1y ago
    Ah, this comment was apparently too much too. All, very quickly as well. The threshold for taking down a post should be higher. Seriously, do the people doing this think they're doing Israel any favours? Everyone knows about the Hasbara farms by now.
- artninja1988 1y ago
  Hope people will vouch for it to stay up
  - immibis 1y ago
    You can't vouch submissions, only comments, which means anyone with a handful of accounts has a mega delete button that can't be reversed. The only way to stop this is for so many people to flag so many things that the mods turn off the ability for flags to delete things.
- hellgas00 1y ago
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- mongol 1y ago
joduplessis 1y ago
No shit, Sherlock.
- anal_reactor 1y ago
  One aspect of this whole thing that doesn't get discussed enough is how Israel specifically arguing that genocide is okay when acting in situation of perceived danger puts into question the moral consensus we have regarding the Holocaust. As in, if it's justified for Israel to commit genocide in the face of perceived danger, then why exactly wasn't same thing justified for nazi Germany? Well, my personal opinion is obviously that both situations are abhorrent, but what I'm trying to point out the PR damage that Israel is doing to itself. I see two reasons why Israel might be okay with that: 1. They focus on short-term gains and they're acting irrationally 2. They know they'll always have US support because US needs them to do shady stuff in Middle East while at the same time they know that Arabs will always hate them anyway, so there's not much point trying to be the good guys. They don't care what Europe thinks because Europe won't be politically influential in foreseeable future anyway. By committing the genocide they confirm they're ready to do real dirty jobs, which is the core reason behind the US support in the first place. I have a feeling that the part of Israel's wrath is that this whole war pretty much voided painstaking process of normalizing relations with Arabs. Therefore they thought "you know what, fuck this shit, if we can't have you like us we'll have you fear us". And that's how we ended up with a democratic country committing genocide. The saddest thing is that the whole idea "it's 21st century, we won't do comically evil shit anymore" turned out to be a mirage, and as a species collectively we're not that far from ancient rulers massacring entire cities just for shits and giggles.
  - deleted 1y ago
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  - calf 1y ago
    I read Scott Aaronson's blog posts this week and he makes a seemingly similar argument, behind his tendency for heated rhetoric. If the international community will barely lift a finger to resolve the I/P issue, then it is predictable and rational for Israel to take matters in their own hands and use violence (implemented as a "preemptive war") to "solve" their national security threat problem. It's a type of political realism argument to support this outcome. No appeal to a country being enlightened or democratic, etc., will work.
Sporktacular 1y ago
Was there a threshold as to why it wasn't one last month, for example.
- mongol 1y ago
  The resolution is an outcome of a process descibed in this organization's bylaws. Quoting: ARTICLE 6. Resolutions A. Resolutions committing the Association to a stand on a public issue require a two-thirds majority of those voting at the biennial business meeting or by e-mail ballot. For a proposed resolution to pass, voting must have been undertaken by a quorum of more than 20% (20% plus 1) of paid up IAGS members at the time of the vote. B. Resolutions directly related to genocide or other mass atrocities, including early warning signs thereof, may be proposed by any member in good standing. C. Proposed resolutions shall first be submitted to the Resolutions Committee appointed by the President and the Executive Board for review of their linguistic clarity and historical and factual accuracy. The standard of review shall be that of an article for the IAGS journal. The Resolutions Committee will recommend to the Executive Board and Advisory Boardwhether the Resolution should be forwarded to the IAGS membership for a vote. D. After consulting with the Advisory Board, the Executive Board shall decide whether or not the proposed resolution will be submitted to the IAGS membership for a vote within two weeks of submission by the Resolutions Committee. Resolutions must be circulated by the Executive Board to the IAGS membership at least thirty days before the close of voting by IAGS members. E-mail voting shall begin as soon as the resolution is submitted to the membership by the Executive Board and close at the end of thirty days of voting. Votes will be submitted and counted by the Secretary/Treasurer of the IAGS, and after verification by the Executive Board, results of the voting will be announced to the members of the IAGS.
  - Sporktacular 1y ago
    Ah, got it. Thanks.
novateg 1y ago
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- deleted 1y ago
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CommanderData 1y ago
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- joshcsimmons 1y ago
  Crazy how vehemently people seek to suppress this information.
  - ignoramous 1y ago
    Ethno-religious extremists with better PR.
Sporktacular 1y ago
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lifestyleguru 1y ago
Last 5 years and especially last 3 years have been historical milestone for the developed world, and not in a good way. It spirals into something indistinguishable.
- thrance 1y ago
  Nothing of the sort, imperialism and colonialism were hallmarks of the developed world. I think it's a good sign, actually, that this time, a significant part of the population saw through all the bullshit and propaganda we've been bombarded with in the last few years.
- silverliver 1y ago
  What was allowed to happen in Palestine has set a new standard for the value of human life and morals. It was not only set for the Palestinians but also for the other side and everyone else. Perhaps this is no consolation to the victims, but the pendulum will continue to swing both ways as it always has. These monsters and their offspring will reap what they sowed. Humanity too will reap this reward.
stopthebullshit 1y ago
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- ae4tae4 1y ago
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- andag 1y ago
  Account created 9 minutes ago...
genocidal 1y ago
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- genocidal 1y ago
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- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  > One could say that it actually liberates the part of the population that doesn't support terrorism. But the genocide here includes the gazans that do not support terrorism. In fact the terrorists are basically the only group in gaza that are immune to the genocide because they control the government and are able to monopolize food distribution. We have seen over and over and over again that counter terrorism only has two ways to succeed. Either the population has to willingly install a government that can counter the terrorists or the counter terrorism group has to kill every single person in the region. Everyone can see which option israel is going for here
  - genocidal 1y ago
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  - ath3nd 1y ago
    Israel is committing a genocide to the Palestinian population. There is a wiki page about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide Scholars' association agrees (those are experts in genocide) https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza-says-scholars-association/ar-AA1LCKYy https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/israel-is-committing-ge... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o And of course, for the one of us who have been paying attention, it's been clear that Israel has been committing a genocide for quite some time. Hence the UN case and the warrant for arrest of the war criminal and genocider Netanyahu roughly 1 year ago. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 > Either the population has to willingly install a government that can counter the terrorists or Words words words. Not gonna help Netanyahu in prison nor the IDF war criminals when they are tried in the Hague for genocide and crimes against mankind.
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
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- bergeyboy 1y ago
  What world do you live in
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  Yea I agree a 2 state solution is probably the worst thing that could happen for the palestinian populace right now because within a year it would lead to dresden levels of destruction and an actual full throated genocide of all the palestinians when the state inevitably starts lobbing rockets at tel aviv and jerusalem. Even if the vast majority of palestinians dont want that they wouldnt be able to stop iranian backed terrorists from doing it and thats all the excuse israel needs to annihilate a sovereign palestine.
  - pinewurst 1y ago
    A Palestinian state would _never_ lob rockets at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Some "faction" would do it, allowing the state deniability.
    - HDThoreaun 1y ago
      I dont think it matters, Israel can still claim they have the right to topple the entire state since it cant guarantee israeli safety and no one would stop them. US has plenty of experience with this.
  - cholantesh 1y ago
    But not because Israel has demonstrated repeatedly within the past year alone that it doesn't particularly care about the sovereignty of even recognized states? Odd.
- throw310822 1y ago
  Wow wow. What an incredible list of dehumanizing genocidal statements. Let me unpack them one by one: > Is Israel doing genocide? Probably. Does the Palestinian leadership (hamas) want them to do this? Yep. So from the start you claim that the Palestinian leadership wants its own people genocided (and themselves killed in the process). Who knows why? They must be rabid beasts, these victims. Better put them out of their pain, eh? > Who cares more about killing less "civilians"? The effed up thing is it's probably Israel. And how do you even know? Most of the killing of civilians, also in percentage to the total, has been done by Israel. Is it again because the others are rabid animals? Also, thanks for those scare quotes around "civilians". Wink wink. > The Arab world doesn't want to deal with Palestinians. The Arab world is either corrupt by US money or has a gun pointed to its head, both by Israel and by its unwavering supporter, financer and protector, the US. This has been made extremely clear multiple times (hundreds of thousands/ millions dead). > Palestinian leadership ... only care about maintaining Mafia level control over Gaza. Again, because they are rabid animals, right? They do not care about freedom, their land, the oppression, being shot at, bombed... > Palestinians have not been allowed to have an economy in 74 years, live off of international aid, and yer have increased their population by a factor of ten. The only reason you do that is to raise cannon fodder. So these animals are guilty of multiplying, their numbers prove their intentions, is this what you mean? The fact itself that they are born proves that they're evil. > Everyone wants the Palestinians to get their own State Not at all, everyone says this to buy time. In fact Israel abhors the idea (threatens everyone who proposes to recognize Palestine), not because of bs security concerns but because it means putting a fixed border and an end to their expansion. The US does what Israel demands- we've seen very clearly in the past two years that their leverage with Israel is zero, while Israel basically controls most US representatives. Europe is more or less in the same position, subordinate to both Israel and the US. The "peace process" for the two states solution is just a facade. It's a process that should go on forever without reaching its goal, keeping the pretense of legality while Israel colonises the West Bank and now Gaza. > But if the Palestinians have a state, and provoke a war, then Israel can use even more unrestrained violence against them Uh? And why? This is a total non-sequitur. Also, why would they provoke a war after reaching their goal of having a state? Again these animals.. > If Israel had used unrestrained carpet bombing like we did to Dresden in world war II, postage stamp sized Gaza would have been completely razed in a month. In fact Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza than were dropped on Dresden, causing a similar level of destruction and deaths. It just did it in slow motion. The limit to Israel's actions is not its morality or its military means, it's the international opinion. > Maybe a Palestinian state run by Hamas and populated by people that have only been raised to hate and die Again, because differently from you and me, these people don't love life, their spouses, their children, their land.. they're rabid animals, will just bite anything that gets near them, wanting to be shot. This is what you think and you've said multiple times in different ways in your post. Horrific, shameful.
daft_pink 1y ago
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- bevr1337 1y ago
  That doesn't seem to be the case. The UN has a legal definition of genocide, and the assertion is that the criteria are met. So what's the change in definition?
  - idiomat9000 1y ago
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- alkyon 1y ago
  I don't think it's really about applying a definition A to a definition B incorrectly, but rather about expanding or restricting the meaning of a given definition. Is the Gaza genocide on the same level as what happened in the Warsaw Ghetto, certainly not. However, it is already surpassing Kosovo/Bosnian War genocide by a huge margin.
  - daft_pink 1y ago
    Genocide generally means to try and eliminate a group. It’s not about the total quantity of people killed. When the US went to war with Nazi Germany, they weren’t committing a genocide on Germans or genocide against Japanese people when they attacked Japan. The Warsaw Ghetto specifically targeted Jews and not other Polish people. Kosovo/Bosnia sought to create ethnically pure territories. You can’t start a war from a homogenous country on a country that will crush you militarily, start losing brutally, refuse to surrender or give up, continue to fight, and then hide behind the word genocide as though the other country doesn’t have the right to continue fighting until you lose.
    - cholantesh 1y ago
      Does the other country have the right to wantonly flout international law and the social conventions it claims to be a standard bearer for at every turn while doing so?
YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
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- georgemcbay 1y ago
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  - thomassmith65 1y ago
    That has it backwards. The advent of social media brought press freedom to millions who previously had no voice, including dumbasses. While the dumbasses incessantly complain about internet censorship, the internet nevertheless lets them spread their dumb views far wider than was possible ever before. This freedom for dumbasses to promote supposed 'uncomfortable truths' was a big reason behind the resurgence of authoritarianism.
  - ETH_start 1y ago
    Not commenting on any specific issue, but this link between avoidance of discussion and the slide toward authoritarianism is why the lifting of the Twitter censorship was so critical.
- Sporktacular 1y ago
  It was flagged 20 minutes into being posted, and was respectful until that time. Really, stop lying.
  - deleted 1y ago
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  - YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
    Excuse me? I'm lying about what? Almost all the comments that are from 1 day ago are flagged or downvoted to grey. If that is how you want to treat this subject then go to 4chan or some other toxic cesspit of the internets. HN is not the place.
    - 1y ago
tguvot 1y ago
per a couple of articles [0][1] - only 28% percent of members voted - virtual discussion for resolution prior to voting was cancelled - didn't allow dissenting opinions published on list serve - The association has recently expanded its membership and there are little qualifications to become a member. The association had been mostly made up of scholars, but now includes figures like activists and artists, - if somebody reads actual resolution, it reads like fine collection of tiktok videos. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-september-02-2025/#liveblog-entry-3632128 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-september-02-2025/#li...
- aaomidi 1y ago
  Very interesting that you’re mixing two sources: one partially reputable and one entirely unreliable for this news. And then you don’t make a distinction of which claim comes from where. The first claim comes from BBC, all the rest come from the second source. And best part? actual source for this is just one member saying stuff.
  - EvgeniyZh 1y ago
    Well the whole discussion is under an article by the source entirely unreliable for this news.
    - thejazzman 1y ago
      aljazeera is unreliable??
      - euLh7SM5HDFY 1y ago
        That "for this news" qualifier is important. I trust their reporting on most topics, but hating Israel is probably only thing that Muslim countries have in common and it will have an impact no matter how much they claim independence from Qatar government. Still, I guess any source is better than Israel paid "There is no famine in Gaza" ads, that YouTube displays between investment scams.
shepherdjerred 1y ago
I saw this yesterday which really changed my mind: https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000010370105/nasser-hospital-gaza-israel-attack-videos.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/1000000103701...
- bjoli 1y ago
  Listening to interviews of the people from the west who have been to Gaza (doctors and nurses) I think it has been pretty clear what kind of violence is being perpetrated towards the civilian population. Things I found especially disturbing was Nick Maynard accusation of using teenagers as target practice, and Anthony Aguilar's description of the absolute horror of the GHF relief sites. But these are just a few of many. There have been more stories of children shot in the head or chest than I can count, and when the stories of snipers shooting children started to fizzle out, it was instead drones that did the shooting. Together with the absolutely abhorrent things said by Israeli ministers and parliament members I have had no doubt that this has been a genocide for quite some time. The hardest thing to accept has been the complicit western media. On one side they have reported about killings, but then promptly reported the Israeli spokesperson's response to the accusations despite them being caught lying over and over again. Like the massacre of the ambulance drivers that first was not communicated with cogat. When it was shown to be communicated to cogat, they did not have their emergency lights and sirens on. When films surfaced of them with their lights and sirens on it was going to be "investigated". That led nowhere, despite the soldiers actively trying to hide their tracks by burying all the victims - some with ther frikken hands tied. This pattern has repeated itself over and over and over, yet news outlets like the BBC or CNN seem to say to themselves "ah, but this time they are telling the truth". My own government have been more preoccupied with hiding it's own cowardice than with standing up for any kind of principles. They believe in nothing and I have nothing but contempt for them.
  - abdusco 1y ago
    Everything Israel says is taken at face value and parroted by the western media, but anything Palestinians say is scrutinized and cast doubt and smeared as "Hamas lies". The only way that neither side can object is from international journalists. Guess what, they're not allowed in, lest the truth comes out.
SilverElfin 1y ago
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- jehejej 1y ago
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  - EvgeniyZh 1y ago
    It is not hard to separate military-purpose infrastructure from civilian one. It is hard only in a sense that it'd be immediately destroyed and all the combatants would be killed. In fact "hiding among civilians" is an excuse for collateral civilian damage, international law allows attacks that harm civilians in order to achieve military goals. By the way, did you know that Geneva convention don't apply if you're fighting someone who haven't signed it and also doesn't "accepts and applies the provisions" [1] Green account with random set of letters for a name calling someone a bot, how ironic [1] https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-2?activeTab= https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/arti...
  - tguvot 1y ago
    those 6% include 100,000 that left gaza.[0] 4000 deliveries in march of this year. 50000 pregnant woman [1] 50,000 births by july of last year [2] latest official (by hamas) death toll is 63000 [3] so, if you go by numbers, population probably grown last year. or over last 2 years [0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/1/gaza-population-falls-6-percent-since-start-of-war-statistics-agency-says https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/1/gaza-population-fall... [1] https://www.savethechildren.net/news/about-130-children-born-daily-gaza-amid-total-siege-aid-and-goods https://www.savethechildren.net/news/about-130-children-born... [2] https://www.savethechildren.net/news/women-self-inducing-labour-and-facing-life-threatening-complications-pregnancy-after-nine https://www.savethechildren.net/news/women-self-inducing-lab... [3] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/gaza-health-ministry-says-more-than-63000-palestinians-killed-as-israel-hamas-war-drags-on https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/gaza-health-ministry-says...
    - 1y ago
NomDePlum 1y ago
Related article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45097384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45097384 Leaked ‘Gaza Riviera’ plan dismissed as ‘insane’ attempt to cover ethnic cleansing
- jjani 1y ago
  Aaand it's flagged/removed.
puregene 1y ago
I saw paul graham tweeted "It's official. It's genocide." https://x.com/paulg/status/1962512489452618056 https://x.com/paulg/status/1962512489452618056
anramon 1y ago
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- Mars008 1y ago
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Mk2000 1y ago
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- FireBeyond 1y ago
  > https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/ Editorial bias towards Qatar, yes. But generally considered to be factual (2 uncorrected factual errors in the last 9 years).
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- bjoli 1y ago
  Al Jazeera English isn't half bad, actually. There have been a lot of estimations about it's reliability, and it usually scores high. It has a "left" bias by an American perspective, but the facts are usually facts
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xyzal 1y ago
I can't understand just how is Israel able to deliver precision strikes in Iran basically landing explosives to key personnel bedrooms (which is impressive!), but w.r.t. Hamas -- allegedly a weaker adversary -- it just isn't possible! We have to end 60k people first. Does anyone have some rational explanation?
- apexalpha 1y ago
  In Iran they mostly blew up stuff that's fixed in place, like the nuclear reactor. Most stuff in Gaza that was fixed in place has been destroyed already.
- dlubarov 1y ago
  A few thoughts, - We don't really know the civilian casualty ratio for Gaza, but in seems somewhere in the normal range for urban wars (e.g. based on some losses Hamas admitted early in the conflict). The Iran strikes also harmed civilians, e.g. from a collapsed building in Nobonyad Square. If Israel had to repeat things 10,000x, we might have seen many collapsed buildings and it might start to resemble Gaza. - Intelligence gathering methods that work for a few high-profile targets might not scale to a war against tens of thousands of combatants. - Israel had the element of surprise against Iran, so the relevant targets were mostly not in bunkers/tunnels. They never did against Hamas.
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  - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
    Compare it to the 2022 Ukraine war. For more than a year almost all the fighting happened in densely populated areas, with many such shorter phases before and since. And Soviet-stock bombs just aren't as precise and unguided rocket artillery even more so. Yet after more than 3 years the number of civilian deaths and injured COMBINED just barely surpassed 50k recently.
    - idiomat9000 1y ago
ciconia 1y ago
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- lifestyleguru 1y ago
  The "moral superiority" is a hell of a drug. I encountered this attitude a lot in Germany. Anyway it feels that words simply lost any meaning in this conflict, because the pressure of infrastructure and real estate investors is immense.
- slavak 1y ago
  I don't know what Israeli media you're consuming, but as an Israeli, that is quite far from the truth, maybe with the exception of some specific pro-government propaganda networks. While I do wish the mainstream media in Israel dedicated more time to the human rights situation in Gaza, their coverage is far from how you presented it.
doka_smoka 1y ago
The overton window is shifting thank Jesus. We are on the brink of awakening.
feb012025 1y ago
Here's something I did that's very eye opening. - Use ChatGPT to get a list of landmarks in Gaza (historical, religious, medical, educational...) - Find the wikipedia for a landmark (hit or miss), and copy the coordinates from the upper right hand corner - Open "Google Earth" and paste the coordinates - Use the "Show historical imagery" button to compare the 2023 image to the most recent You'll see with your own eyes that the majority of all notable landmarks are just about destroyed, obviously targeted, and most of the google earth images are at least a year old. Every single university ChatGPT lists as the top 5 in gaza are gone. And you can see from the historical images that these were very nice, well-groomed campuses. All of the greenery is gone. I had heard it beforehand, but this process of self-discovery with google earth hit a little bit different
- deleted 1y ago
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- snypher 1y ago
  Genocide is not just about the people. 'Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term, defined genocide as "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence".'
  - BergAndCo 1y ago
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- BergAndCo 1y ago
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- jfengel 1y ago
  Israel repeatedly accuses Hamas of using such sites as bases for rocket attacks. They claim that Hamas does this precisely to encourage posts like yours: blaming Israel for Hamas' violations of international law. I cannot validate Israel's accusations, nor can I refute them. I just think it's important to mention them, because if they were true, it changes the interpretation of those facts considerably. Unfortunately, confirmation of such things is practically impossible, in a self-fulfilling way. At least one side is willing to go to great lengths to deny their own violations. It's entirely possible that it's both.
hereme888 1y ago
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- darkoob12 1y ago
  Yes that's your reallity which is obviously different from mine. One can list 70 years of "one time lone IDF soldier" war crimes. But I wouldn't waste time because you believe what you want to believe. Nothing can't change youe bias. You do not consider Pelastinians as humans.
  - hereme888 1y ago
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- ignoramous 1y ago
  > FAFO Quite inspired by Goebbels, are we? The Jews are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-the-jews-are-guilty-quot https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-th...
SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
Why wouldn't they? Nobody is stopping them, and it benefits them to remove a traditional enemy population. The sorts of people who seek to lead nations tend to only have performative ethics: if it benefits them to appear ethical, they'll behave ethically.
7433678532901 1y ago
Well, if the Al-Qaida outlet says so, HNers will swallow it.
- BergAndCo 1y ago
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381 points by novateg 1y ago

strathmeyer 1y ago

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artninja1988 1y ago
here is the guardian reporting on it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committ... Or the financial times, if you prefer: https://www.ft.com/content/470b61ff-aa1c-487f-a9ae-477b5c142a53 https://www.ft.com/content/470b61ff-aa1c-487f-a9ae-477b5c142...
- nivertech 1y ago
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  - artninja1988 1y ago
    Embarrassing edit. You need to seek help.
    - deleted 1y ago
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  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Do you not read?
    - deleted 1y ago
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dist-epoch 1y ago
Here you go, Israel groups saying Israel is committing genocide in a leading Israel paper: > In first, two major Israeli human rights groups accuse Israel of ‘genocide’ in Gaza https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-two-major-israeli-human-rights-groups-accuse-israel-of-genocide-in-gaza/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-two-major-israeli-hum...
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omikun 1y ago
Terrorism like Israel killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians or the US killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians? Or do you just mean the violence committed by brown people against their oppressors?

DataDaemon 1y ago

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already 1y ago
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jehejej 1y ago
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Sporktacular 1y ago
No matter how civilised the discourse, for some it's too much. Is there a way to take away the veto of any 10 people who don't like what they see?
- Sporktacular 1y ago
  Ah, this comment was apparently too much too. All, very quickly as well. The threshold for taking down a post should be higher. Seriously, do the people doing this think they're doing Israel any favours? Everyone knows about the Hasbara farms by now.
artninja1988 1y ago
Hope people will vouch for it to stay up
- immibis 1y ago
  You can't vouch submissions, only comments, which means anyone with a handful of accounts has a mega delete button that can't be reversed. The only way to stop this is for so many people to flag so many things that the mods turn off the ability for flags to delete things.
hellgas00 1y ago
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mongol 1y ago

joduplessis 1y ago

No shit, Sherlock.

anal_reactor 1y ago
One aspect of this whole thing that doesn't get discussed enough is how Israel specifically arguing that genocide is okay when acting in situation of perceived danger puts into question the moral consensus we have regarding the Holocaust. As in, if it's justified for Israel to commit genocide in the face of perceived danger, then why exactly wasn't same thing justified for nazi Germany? Well, my personal opinion is obviously that both situations are abhorrent, but what I'm trying to point out the PR damage that Israel is doing to itself. I see two reasons why Israel might be okay with that: 1. They focus on short-term gains and they're acting irrationally 2. They know they'll always have US support because US needs them to do shady stuff in Middle East while at the same time they know that Arabs will always hate them anyway, so there's not much point trying to be the good guys. They don't care what Europe thinks because Europe won't be politically influential in foreseeable future anyway. By committing the genocide they confirm they're ready to do real dirty jobs, which is the core reason behind the US support in the first place. I have a feeling that the part of Israel's wrath is that this whole war pretty much voided painstaking process of normalizing relations with Arabs. Therefore they thought "you know what, fuck this shit, if we can't have you like us we'll have you fear us". And that's how we ended up with a democratic country committing genocide. The saddest thing is that the whole idea "it's 21st century, we won't do comically evil shit anymore" turned out to be a mirage, and as a species collectively we're not that far from ancient rulers massacring entire cities just for shits and giggles.
- deleted 1y ago
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- calf 1y ago
  I read Scott Aaronson's blog posts this week and he makes a seemingly similar argument, behind his tendency for heated rhetoric. If the international community will barely lift a finger to resolve the I/P issue, then it is predictable and rational for Israel to take matters in their own hands and use violence (implemented as a "preemptive war") to "solve" their national security threat problem. It's a type of political realism argument to support this outcome. No appeal to a country being enlightened or democratic, etc., will work.

Sporktacular 1y ago

Was there a threshold as to why it wasn't one last month, for example.

mongol 1y ago
The resolution is an outcome of a process descibed in this organization's bylaws. Quoting: ARTICLE 6. Resolutions A. Resolutions committing the Association to a stand on a public issue require a two-thirds majority of those voting at the biennial business meeting or by e-mail ballot. For a proposed resolution to pass, voting must have been undertaken by a quorum of more than 20% (20% plus 1) of paid up IAGS members at the time of the vote. B. Resolutions directly related to genocide or other mass atrocities, including early warning signs thereof, may be proposed by any member in good standing. C. Proposed resolutions shall first be submitted to the Resolutions Committee appointed by the President and the Executive Board for review of their linguistic clarity and historical and factual accuracy. The standard of review shall be that of an article for the IAGS journal. The Resolutions Committee will recommend to the Executive Board and Advisory Boardwhether the Resolution should be forwarded to the IAGS membership for a vote. D. After consulting with the Advisory Board, the Executive Board shall decide whether or not the proposed resolution will be submitted to the IAGS membership for a vote within two weeks of submission by the Resolutions Committee. Resolutions must be circulated by the Executive Board to the IAGS membership at least thirty days before the close of voting by IAGS members. E-mail voting shall begin as soon as the resolution is submitted to the membership by the Executive Board and close at the end of thirty days of voting. Votes will be submitted and counted by the Secretary/Treasurer of the IAGS, and after verification by the Executive Board, results of the voting will be announced to the members of the IAGS.
- Sporktacular 1y ago
  Ah, got it. Thanks.

novateg 1y ago

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deleted 1y ago
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CommanderData 1y ago

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joshcsimmons 1y ago
Crazy how vehemently people seek to suppress this information.
- ignoramous 1y ago
  Ethno-religious extremists with better PR.

Sporktacular 1y ago

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lifestyleguru 1y ago

Last 5 years and especially last 3 years have been historical milestone for the developed world, and not in a good way. It spirals into something indistinguishable.

thrance 1y ago
Nothing of the sort, imperialism and colonialism were hallmarks of the developed world. I think it's a good sign, actually, that this time, a significant part of the population saw through all the bullshit and propaganda we've been bombarded with in the last few years.
silverliver 1y ago
What was allowed to happen in Palestine has set a new standard for the value of human life and morals. It was not only set for the Palestinians but also for the other side and everyone else. Perhaps this is no consolation to the victims, but the pendulum will continue to swing both ways as it always has. These monsters and their offspring will reap what they sowed. Humanity too will reap this reward.

stopthebullshit 1y ago

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ae4tae4 1y ago
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andag 1y ago
Account created 9 minutes ago...

genocidal 1y ago

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genocidal 1y ago
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HDThoreaun 1y ago
> One could say that it actually liberates the part of the population that doesn't support terrorism. But the genocide here includes the gazans that do not support terrorism. In fact the terrorists are basically the only group in gaza that are immune to the genocide because they control the government and are able to monopolize food distribution. We have seen over and over and over again that counter terrorism only has two ways to succeed. Either the population has to willingly install a government that can counter the terrorists or the counter terrorism group has to kill every single person in the region. Everyone can see which option israel is going for here
- genocidal 1y ago
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- ath3nd 1y ago
  Israel is committing a genocide to the Palestinian population. There is a wiki page about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide Scholars' association agrees (those are experts in genocide) https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza-says-scholars-association/ar-AA1LCKYy https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/israel-is-committing-ge... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o And of course, for the one of us who have been paying attention, it's been clear that Israel has been committing a genocide for quite some time. Hence the UN case and the warrant for arrest of the war criminal and genocider Netanyahu roughly 1 year ago. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286 > Either the population has to willingly install a government that can counter the terrorists or Words words words. Not gonna help Netanyahu in prison nor the IDF war criminals when they are tried in the Hague for genocide and crimes against mankind.

AtlasBarfed 1y ago

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bergeyboy 1y ago
What world do you live in
HDThoreaun 1y ago
Yea I agree a 2 state solution is probably the worst thing that could happen for the palestinian populace right now because within a year it would lead to dresden levels of destruction and an actual full throated genocide of all the palestinians when the state inevitably starts lobbing rockets at tel aviv and jerusalem. Even if the vast majority of palestinians dont want that they wouldnt be able to stop iranian backed terrorists from doing it and thats all the excuse israel needs to annihilate a sovereign palestine.
- pinewurst 1y ago
  A Palestinian state would _never_ lob rockets at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Some "faction" would do it, allowing the state deniability.
  - HDThoreaun 1y ago
    I dont think it matters, Israel can still claim they have the right to topple the entire state since it cant guarantee israeli safety and no one would stop them. US has plenty of experience with this.
- cholantesh 1y ago
  But not because Israel has demonstrated repeatedly within the past year alone that it doesn't particularly care about the sovereignty of even recognized states? Odd.
throw310822 1y ago
Wow wow. What an incredible list of dehumanizing genocidal statements. Let me unpack them one by one: > Is Israel doing genocide? Probably. Does the Palestinian leadership (hamas) want them to do this? Yep. So from the start you claim that the Palestinian leadership wants its own people genocided (and themselves killed in the process). Who knows why? They must be rabid beasts, these victims. Better put them out of their pain, eh? > Who cares more about killing less "civilians"? The effed up thing is it's probably Israel. And how do you even know? Most of the killing of civilians, also in percentage to the total, has been done by Israel. Is it again because the others are rabid animals? Also, thanks for those scare quotes around "civilians". Wink wink. > The Arab world doesn't want to deal with Palestinians. The Arab world is either corrupt by US money or has a gun pointed to its head, both by Israel and by its unwavering supporter, financer and protector, the US. This has been made extremely clear multiple times (hundreds of thousands/ millions dead). > Palestinian leadership ... only care about maintaining Mafia level control over Gaza. Again, because they are rabid animals, right? They do not care about freedom, their land, the oppression, being shot at, bombed... > Palestinians have not been allowed to have an economy in 74 years, live off of international aid, and yer have increased their population by a factor of ten. The only reason you do that is to raise cannon fodder. So these animals are guilty of multiplying, their numbers prove their intentions, is this what you mean? The fact itself that they are born proves that they're evil. > Everyone wants the Palestinians to get their own State Not at all, everyone says this to buy time. In fact Israel abhors the idea (threatens everyone who proposes to recognize Palestine), not because of bs security concerns but because it means putting a fixed border and an end to their expansion. The US does what Israel demands- we've seen very clearly in the past two years that their leverage with Israel is zero, while Israel basically controls most US representatives. Europe is more or less in the same position, subordinate to both Israel and the US. The "peace process" for the two states solution is just a facade. It's a process that should go on forever without reaching its goal, keeping the pretense of legality while Israel colonises the West Bank and now Gaza. > But if the Palestinians have a state, and provoke a war, then Israel can use even more unrestrained violence against them Uh? And why? This is a total non-sequitur. Also, why would they provoke a war after reaching their goal of having a state? Again these animals.. > If Israel had used unrestrained carpet bombing like we did to Dresden in world war II, postage stamp sized Gaza would have been completely razed in a month. In fact Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza than were dropped on Dresden, causing a similar level of destruction and deaths. It just did it in slow motion. The limit to Israel's actions is not its morality or its military means, it's the international opinion. > Maybe a Palestinian state run by Hamas and populated by people that have only been raised to hate and die Again, because differently from you and me, these people don't love life, their spouses, their children, their land.. they're rabid animals, will just bite anything that gets near them, wanting to be shot. This is what you think and you've said multiple times in different ways in your post. Horrific, shameful.

daft_pink 1y ago

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bevr1337 1y ago
That doesn't seem to be the case. The UN has a legal definition of genocide, and the assertion is that the criteria are met. So what's the change in definition?
- idiomat9000 1y ago
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alkyon 1y ago
I don't think it's really about applying a definition A to a definition B incorrectly, but rather about expanding or restricting the meaning of a given definition. Is the Gaza genocide on the same level as what happened in the Warsaw Ghetto, certainly not. However, it is already surpassing Kosovo/Bosnian War genocide by a huge margin.
- daft_pink 1y ago
  Genocide generally means to try and eliminate a group. It’s not about the total quantity of people killed. When the US went to war with Nazi Germany, they weren’t committing a genocide on Germans or genocide against Japanese people when they attacked Japan. The Warsaw Ghetto specifically targeted Jews and not other Polish people. Kosovo/Bosnia sought to create ethnically pure territories. You can’t start a war from a homogenous country on a country that will crush you militarily, start losing brutally, refuse to surrender or give up, continue to fight, and then hide behind the word genocide as though the other country doesn’t have the right to continue fighting until you lose.
  - cholantesh 1y ago
    Does the other country have the right to wantonly flout international law and the social conventions it claims to be a standard bearer for at every turn while doing so?

YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago

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georgemcbay 1y ago
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- thomassmith65 1y ago
  That has it backwards. The advent of social media brought press freedom to millions who previously had no voice, including dumbasses. While the dumbasses incessantly complain about internet censorship, the internet nevertheless lets them spread their dumb views far wider than was possible ever before. This freedom for dumbasses to promote supposed 'uncomfortable truths' was a big reason behind the resurgence of authoritarianism.
- ETH_start 1y ago
  Not commenting on any specific issue, but this link between avoidance of discussion and the slide toward authoritarianism is why the lifting of the Twitter censorship was so critical.
Sporktacular 1y ago
It was flagged 20 minutes into being posted, and was respectful until that time. Really, stop lying.
- deleted 1y ago
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- YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
  Excuse me? I'm lying about what? Almost all the comments that are from 1 day ago are flagged or downvoted to grey. If that is how you want to treat this subject then go to 4chan or some other toxic cesspit of the internets. HN is not the place.
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tguvot 1y ago

per a couple of articles [0][1] - only 28% percent of members voted - virtual discussion for resolution prior to voting was cancelled - didn't allow dissenting opinions published on list serve - The association has recently expanded its membership and there are little qualifications to become a member. The association had been mostly made up of scholars, but now includes figures like activists and artists, - if somebody reads actual resolution, it reads like fine collection of tiktok videos. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-september-02-2025/#liveblog-entry-3632128 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-september-02-2025/#li...

aaomidi 1y ago
Very interesting that you’re mixing two sources: one partially reputable and one entirely unreliable for this news. And then you don’t make a distinction of which claim comes from where. The first claim comes from BBC, all the rest come from the second source. And best part? actual source for this is just one member saying stuff.
- EvgeniyZh 1y ago
  Well the whole discussion is under an article by the source entirely unreliable for this news.
  - thejazzman 1y ago
    aljazeera is unreliable??
    - euLh7SM5HDFY 1y ago
      That "for this news" qualifier is important. I trust their reporting on most topics, but hating Israel is probably only thing that Muslim countries have in common and it will have an impact no matter how much they claim independence from Qatar government. Still, I guess any source is better than Israel paid "There is no famine in Gaza" ads, that YouTube displays between investment scams.

shepherdjerred 1y ago

I saw this yesterday which really changed my mind: https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000010370105/nasser-hospital-gaza-israel-attack-videos.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/1000000103701...

bjoli 1y ago
Listening to interviews of the people from the west who have been to Gaza (doctors and nurses) I think it has been pretty clear what kind of violence is being perpetrated towards the civilian population. Things I found especially disturbing was Nick Maynard accusation of using teenagers as target practice, and Anthony Aguilar's description of the absolute horror of the GHF relief sites. But these are just a few of many. There have been more stories of children shot in the head or chest than I can count, and when the stories of snipers shooting children started to fizzle out, it was instead drones that did the shooting. Together with the absolutely abhorrent things said by Israeli ministers and parliament members I have had no doubt that this has been a genocide for quite some time. The hardest thing to accept has been the complicit western media. On one side they have reported about killings, but then promptly reported the Israeli spokesperson's response to the accusations despite them being caught lying over and over again. Like the massacre of the ambulance drivers that first was not communicated with cogat. When it was shown to be communicated to cogat, they did not have their emergency lights and sirens on. When films surfaced of them with their lights and sirens on it was going to be "investigated". That led nowhere, despite the soldiers actively trying to hide their tracks by burying all the victims - some with ther frikken hands tied. This pattern has repeated itself over and over and over, yet news outlets like the BBC or CNN seem to say to themselves "ah, but this time they are telling the truth". My own government have been more preoccupied with hiding it's own cowardice than with standing up for any kind of principles. They believe in nothing and I have nothing but contempt for them.
- abdusco 1y ago
  Everything Israel says is taken at face value and parroted by the western media, but anything Palestinians say is scrutinized and cast doubt and smeared as "Hamas lies". The only way that neither side can object is from international journalists. Guess what, they're not allowed in, lest the truth comes out.

SilverElfin 1y ago

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jehejej 1y ago
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- EvgeniyZh 1y ago
  It is not hard to separate military-purpose infrastructure from civilian one. It is hard only in a sense that it'd be immediately destroyed and all the combatants would be killed. In fact "hiding among civilians" is an excuse for collateral civilian damage, international law allows attacks that harm civilians in order to achieve military goals. By the way, did you know that Geneva convention don't apply if you're fighting someone who haven't signed it and also doesn't "accepts and applies the provisions" [1] Green account with random set of letters for a name calling someone a bot, how ironic [1] https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/article-2?activeTab= https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gci-1949/arti...
- tguvot 1y ago
  those 6% include 100,000 that left gaza.[0] 4000 deliveries in march of this year. 50000 pregnant woman [1] 50,000 births by july of last year [2] latest official (by hamas) death toll is 63000 [3] so, if you go by numbers, population probably grown last year. or over last 2 years [0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/1/gaza-population-falls-6-percent-since-start-of-war-statistics-agency-says https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/1/gaza-population-fall... [1] https://www.savethechildren.net/news/about-130-children-born-daily-gaza-amid-total-siege-aid-and-goods https://www.savethechildren.net/news/about-130-children-born... [2] https://www.savethechildren.net/news/women-self-inducing-labour-and-facing-life-threatening-complications-pregnancy-after-nine https://www.savethechildren.net/news/women-self-inducing-lab... [3] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/gaza-health-ministry-says-more-than-63000-palestinians-killed-as-israel-hamas-war-drags-on https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/gaza-health-ministry-says...
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NomDePlum 1y ago

Related article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45097384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45097384 Leaked ‘Gaza Riviera’ plan dismissed as ‘insane’ attempt to cover ethnic cleansing

jjani 1y ago
Aaand it's flagged/removed.

puregene 1y ago

I saw paul graham tweeted "It's official. It's genocide." https://x.com/paulg/status/1962512489452618056 https://x.com/paulg/status/1962512489452618056

anramon 1y ago

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Mars008 1y ago
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Mk2000 1y ago

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FireBeyond 1y ago
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/ Editorial bias towards Qatar, yes. But generally considered to be factual (2 uncorrected factual errors in the last 9 years).
- deleted 1y ago
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bjoli 1y ago
Al Jazeera English isn't half bad, actually. There have been a lot of estimations about it's reliability, and it usually scores high. It has a "left" bias by an American perspective, but the facts are usually facts

deleted 1y ago

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xyzal 1y ago

I can't understand just how is Israel able to deliver precision strikes in Iran basically landing explosives to key personnel bedrooms (which is impressive!), but w.r.t. Hamas -- allegedly a weaker adversary -- it just isn't possible! We have to end 60k people first. Does anyone have some rational explanation?

apexalpha 1y ago
In Iran they mostly blew up stuff that's fixed in place, like the nuclear reactor. Most stuff in Gaza that was fixed in place has been destroyed already.
dlubarov 1y ago
A few thoughts, - We don't really know the civilian casualty ratio for Gaza, but in seems somewhere in the normal range for urban wars (e.g. based on some losses Hamas admitted early in the conflict). The Iran strikes also harmed civilians, e.g. from a collapsed building in Nobonyad Square. If Israel had to repeat things 10,000x, we might have seen many collapsed buildings and it might start to resemble Gaza. - Intelligence gathering methods that work for a few high-profile targets might not scale to a war against tens of thousands of combatants. - Israel had the element of surprise against Iran, so the relevant targets were mostly not in bunkers/tunnels. They never did against Hamas.
- deleted 1y ago
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- DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
  Compare it to the 2022 Ukraine war. For more than a year almost all the fighting happened in densely populated areas, with many such shorter phases before and since. And Soviet-stock bombs just aren't as precise and unguided rocket artillery even more so. Yet after more than 3 years the number of civilian deaths and injured COMBINED just barely surpassed 50k recently.
  - idiomat9000 1y ago

ciconia 1y ago

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lifestyleguru 1y ago
The "moral superiority" is a hell of a drug. I encountered this attitude a lot in Germany. Anyway it feels that words simply lost any meaning in this conflict, because the pressure of infrastructure and real estate investors is immense.
slavak 1y ago
I don't know what Israeli media you're consuming, but as an Israeli, that is quite far from the truth, maybe with the exception of some specific pro-government propaganda networks. While I do wish the mainstream media in Israel dedicated more time to the human rights situation in Gaza, their coverage is far from how you presented it.

doka_smoka 1y ago

The overton window is shifting thank Jesus. We are on the brink of awakening.

feb012025 1y ago

Here's something I did that's very eye opening. - Use ChatGPT to get a list of landmarks in Gaza (historical, religious, medical, educational...) - Find the wikipedia for a landmark (hit or miss), and copy the coordinates from the upper right hand corner - Open "Google Earth" and paste the coordinates - Use the "Show historical imagery" button to compare the 2023 image to the most recent You'll see with your own eyes that the majority of all notable landmarks are just about destroyed, obviously targeted, and most of the google earth images are at least a year old. Every single university ChatGPT lists as the top 5 in gaza are gone. And you can see from the historical images that these were very nice, well-groomed campuses. All of the greenery is gone. I had heard it beforehand, but this process of self-discovery with google earth hit a little bit different

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snypher 1y ago
Genocide is not just about the people. 'Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term, defined genocide as "the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group" by means such as "the disintegration of [its] political and social institutions, of [its] culture, language, national feelings, religion, and [its] economic existence".'
- BergAndCo 1y ago
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BergAndCo 1y ago
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jfengel 1y ago
Israel repeatedly accuses Hamas of using such sites as bases for rocket attacks. They claim that Hamas does this precisely to encourage posts like yours: blaming Israel for Hamas' violations of international law. I cannot validate Israel's accusations, nor can I refute them. I just think it's important to mention them, because if they were true, it changes the interpretation of those facts considerably. Unfortunately, confirmation of such things is practically impossible, in a self-fulfilling way. At least one side is willing to go to great lengths to deny their own violations. It's entirely possible that it's both.

hereme888 1y ago

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darkoob12 1y ago
Yes that's your reallity which is obviously different from mine. One can list 70 years of "one time lone IDF soldier" war crimes. But I wouldn't waste time because you believe what you want to believe. Nothing can't change youe bias. You do not consider Pelastinians as humans.
- hereme888 1y ago
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ignoramous 1y ago
> FAFO Quite inspired by Goebbels, are we? The Jews are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-the-jews-are-guilty-quot https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-th...

SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago

Why wouldn't they? Nobody is stopping them, and it benefits them to remove a traditional enemy population. The sorts of people who seek to lead nations tend to only have performative ethics: if it benefits them to appear ethical, they'll behave ethically.

7433678532901 1y ago

Well, if the Al-Qaida outlet says so, HNers will swallow it.

BergAndCo 1y ago
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