11 ms·

We Ran the CDC: Kennedy Is Endangering Every American's Health

104 points by cmurf 1y ago

cmurf 1y ago
https://archive.is/FdsDo https://archive.is/FdsDo
FrankWilhoit 1y ago
[flagged]
- jfengel 1y ago
  The time frame of elections doesn't afford enough time for that. He'll likely be gone in four years regardless of what happens. His successor may or may not have any interest in repairing the damage done, but you'd basically have to restart the clock. The voters, like markets, can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent/uninfected.
  - emchammer 1y ago
    This is terrifying. We can’t handle these generational tantrums.
    - FrankWilhoit 1y ago
      The destruction of the educational system, a lifetime ago, guarantees that tantrums are the only thing on the menu from here on out.
      - emchammer 1y ago
        What are you referring to, No Child Left Behind? And why is legitimate conversation so grayed out on this site?
jfengel 1y ago
Of course. But it will likely be years before it really reaches its full effect. There is herd immunity for a lot of vaccines. It might be decades before we have to break out an iron lung. Once we do we'll have to get a whole bunch because polio is extremely transmissible, but until then it will be easily deniable. Similarly, without tracking a lot of diseases, it'll just be anecdotal. We already hear about E. coli and salmonella outbreaks. Will anyone really notice the difference if there are twice as many? (Especially if it's only reported in the much-reviled "mainstream media".) The danger is obvious to anyone who knows anything at all about how disease processes work. But as Kennedy said, "We, you know, people, we need to stop trusting the experts." Anybody who knows anything is ipso facto untrustworthy, and you should believe the opposite of what they say. So it will be quite a long time before people have sufficiently "done their own research" (by dying).
- aredox 1y ago
  >So it will be quite a long time before people have sufficiently "done their own research" (by dying). And even then, it may not be enough. Antivaccine is as old as vaccines, with the same arguments forever, and I would argue that the mass adoption of vaccination in the 20th century has as much to do with social and cultural forces such as post-war optimism, fascination with science and trust in modernity, as with hard data like "efficacy" and having your kids escape illness.
- nostrademons 1y ago
  Also many vaccines are given in childhood, the vaccine schedule is frontloaded to the first 18 months of life, and many parents are trying to push to get the rest of their kids' vaccines early if possible for fear of losing access to them. So kids up through roughly 2024 births will have largely gotten their vaccines before the CDC can substantively change anything. We're looking at decades before the health effects become apparent, enough time for kids to be born after the unavailability of vaccines and yet grow old enough to get into school settings where diseases can easily spread. Also likely to be extremely socioeconomically divided, as wealthy parents will likely be able to secure vaccines for their kids through vaccine tourism or the black market, while diseases run rampant through the lower classes.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 1y ago
[flagged]
- felixgallo 1y ago
  The CDC did not 'brand the lab-leak hypothesis a conspiracy theory'. The CDC stated the scientific truth, which was that we didn't have enough to go on at the time to make a judgement one way or another. The initial lab-leak hypothesis was primarily created by Trump & the MAGA folks to try to deflect blame onto China. It could still be valid and correct, but it was definitely not motivated from facts at first, and to my understanding we still don't have enough facts to assert it confidently one way or the other.
  - philipallstar 1y ago
    If the two options are a) coming from a wet market vs b) coming from a coronavirus gain of function laboratory in Wuhan that's funded by the CDC, you have to start thinking about this more than just MAGA conspiracy theories. It's the most bloody obvious explanation, and in a sane world where "MAGA" didn't just turn off everyone's brain cells and cause them to blindly repeat what they're told, any alternative would need some serious heft to be convincing.
    - mvdwoord 1y ago
      So much this. It was hard to watch.
    - felixgallo 1y ago
      'coronavirus gain of function laboratory in Wuhan that's funded by the CDC' is misleading. The particular lab (Wuhan Institute of Virology) is not a 'coronavirus gain of function laboratory', but an institute studying viruses, including the coronavirus, and including gain of function research. And, critically, "the viruses used in these experiments were not physically present but rather consisted of synthesized genetic sequences, meaning they were not complete, nor infectious viral particles capable of replication, and the pseudo-virus experiments conducted to test human cell entry lacked the ability to replicate." (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12040609/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12040609/). It's possible that WIV did screw up and create, intentionally or otherwise, the virus responsible for the pandemic. And, WIV has been linked with military research programs. But, it's not a slam dunk, and the best/widest scientific consensus is still, in 2025, that the origin was natural/biological and came as a result of human/wild-animal contact.
stefantalpalaru 1y ago
[dead]
lazyeye 1y ago
60% of the US population has at least one chronic disease. 60 PERCENT! 40% has 2 or more. In any other sector would this be an acceptable outcome? https://www.cdc.gov/chronic-disease/about/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/chronic-disease/about/index.html The old establishment health bureacracy should not be taken seriously. By any measure they are corrupt and incompetent fools.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  You’re blaming the medical establishment for Western disease? Maybe blame a car centric, carbohydrate rich ultra processed food incentivized system? Read the risk factors on the page you cited. It’s smoking, alcohol consumption, poor diet, and lack of exercise. Everyone gets cancer when we live longer and improve detection. Prescribe and subsidize exercise and GLP-1s, ban cigarettes, and you solve a lot of this. The medical establishment did not make the system humans exist in the US in, they simply try to treat it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence
  - lazyeye 1y ago
    Yes this would be their primary challenge at which they have comprehensively failed.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      What task have they failed in? And, more importantly, what is the better approach? You've asserted 60% of Americans having at least one chronic condition is a failure and begged the question that it is a failure (instead of a reasonable expectation of the health of mortals, especially mortals in a population that starts to skew older as our birth rates fall relative to the baby boom... Or the consequence of accurate tracking and reporting on an ever-widening set of understood or recognized conditions). Start by convincing the room there is a problem to solve before asserting leadership has failed at it. And even if there is a problem to solve: entropy being what it is, there are infinitely more worse ways to do things than there are better. Even if the CDC's approach has room for improvement, from whence comes the confidence that putting a debunked conspiracy believer (https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/11/15/rfk-jrs-conspiracy-theories-heres-what-trumps-pick-for-health-secretary-has-promoted/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/11/15/rfk-jrs-con...) and anti-vaccination activist at its helm leads to improvement?
dh2022 1y ago
It looks like US will not be at the fore front of vaccine development and production. I hope at least this US admin will not ban importing vaccines developed by other countries… they may tariff them, but not ban.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

104 points by cmurf 1y ago

cmurf 1y ago

https://archive.is/FdsDo https://archive.is/FdsDo

FrankWilhoit 1y ago

[flagged]

jfengel 1y ago
The time frame of elections doesn't afford enough time for that. He'll likely be gone in four years regardless of what happens. His successor may or may not have any interest in repairing the damage done, but you'd basically have to restart the clock. The voters, like markets, can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent/uninfected.
- emchammer 1y ago
  This is terrifying. We can’t handle these generational tantrums.
  - FrankWilhoit 1y ago
    The destruction of the educational system, a lifetime ago, guarantees that tantrums are the only thing on the menu from here on out.
    - emchammer 1y ago
      What are you referring to, No Child Left Behind? And why is legitimate conversation so grayed out on this site?

jfengel 1y ago

Of course. But it will likely be years before it really reaches its full effect. There is herd immunity for a lot of vaccines. It might be decades before we have to break out an iron lung. Once we do we'll have to get a whole bunch because polio is extremely transmissible, but until then it will be easily deniable. Similarly, without tracking a lot of diseases, it'll just be anecdotal. We already hear about E. coli and salmonella outbreaks. Will anyone really notice the difference if there are twice as many? (Especially if it's only reported in the much-reviled "mainstream media".) The danger is obvious to anyone who knows anything at all about how disease processes work. But as Kennedy said, "We, you know, people, we need to stop trusting the experts." Anybody who knows anything is ipso facto untrustworthy, and you should believe the opposite of what they say. So it will be quite a long time before people have sufficiently "done their own research" (by dying).

aredox 1y ago
>So it will be quite a long time before people have sufficiently "done their own research" (by dying). And even then, it may not be enough. Antivaccine is as old as vaccines, with the same arguments forever, and I would argue that the mass adoption of vaccination in the 20th century has as much to do with social and cultural forces such as post-war optimism, fascination with science and trust in modernity, as with hard data like "efficacy" and having your kids escape illness.
nostrademons 1y ago
Also many vaccines are given in childhood, the vaccine schedule is frontloaded to the first 18 months of life, and many parents are trying to push to get the rest of their kids' vaccines early if possible for fear of losing access to them. So kids up through roughly 2024 births will have largely gotten their vaccines before the CDC can substantively change anything. We're looking at decades before the health effects become apparent, enough time for kids to be born after the unavailability of vaccines and yet grow old enough to get into school settings where diseases can easily spread. Also likely to be extremely socioeconomically divided, as wealthy parents will likely be able to secure vaccines for their kids through vaccine tourism or the black market, while diseases run rampant through the lower classes.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 1y ago

[flagged]

felixgallo 1y ago
The CDC did not 'brand the lab-leak hypothesis a conspiracy theory'. The CDC stated the scientific truth, which was that we didn't have enough to go on at the time to make a judgement one way or another. The initial lab-leak hypothesis was primarily created by Trump & the MAGA folks to try to deflect blame onto China. It could still be valid and correct, but it was definitely not motivated from facts at first, and to my understanding we still don't have enough facts to assert it confidently one way or the other.
- philipallstar 1y ago
  If the two options are a) coming from a wet market vs b) coming from a coronavirus gain of function laboratory in Wuhan that's funded by the CDC, you have to start thinking about this more than just MAGA conspiracy theories. It's the most bloody obvious explanation, and in a sane world where "MAGA" didn't just turn off everyone's brain cells and cause them to blindly repeat what they're told, any alternative would need some serious heft to be convincing.
  - mvdwoord 1y ago
    So much this. It was hard to watch.
  - felixgallo 1y ago
    'coronavirus gain of function laboratory in Wuhan that's funded by the CDC' is misleading. The particular lab (Wuhan Institute of Virology) is not a 'coronavirus gain of function laboratory', but an institute studying viruses, including the coronavirus, and including gain of function research. And, critically, "the viruses used in these experiments were not physically present but rather consisted of synthesized genetic sequences, meaning they were not complete, nor infectious viral particles capable of replication, and the pseudo-virus experiments conducted to test human cell entry lacked the ability to replicate." (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12040609/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12040609/). It's possible that WIV did screw up and create, intentionally or otherwise, the virus responsible for the pandemic. And, WIV has been linked with military research programs. But, it's not a slam dunk, and the best/widest scientific consensus is still, in 2025, that the origin was natural/biological and came as a result of human/wild-animal contact.

stefantalpalaru 1y ago

[dead]

lazyeye 1y ago

60% of the US population has at least one chronic disease. 60 PERCENT! 40% has 2 or more. In any other sector would this be an acceptable outcome? https://www.cdc.gov/chronic-disease/about/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/chronic-disease/about/index.html The old establishment health bureacracy should not be taken seriously. By any measure they are corrupt and incompetent fools.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
You’re blaming the medical establishment for Western disease? Maybe blame a car centric, carbohydrate rich ultra processed food incentivized system? Read the risk factors on the page you cited. It’s smoking, alcohol consumption, poor diet, and lack of exercise. Everyone gets cancer when we live longer and improve detection. Prescribe and subsidize exercise and GLP-1s, ban cigarettes, and you solve a lot of this. The medical establishment did not make the system humans exist in the US in, they simply try to treat it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence
- lazyeye 1y ago
  Yes this would be their primary challenge at which they have comprehensively failed.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    What task have they failed in? And, more importantly, what is the better approach? You've asserted 60% of Americans having at least one chronic condition is a failure and begged the question that it is a failure (instead of a reasonable expectation of the health of mortals, especially mortals in a population that starts to skew older as our birth rates fall relative to the baby boom... Or the consequence of accurate tracking and reporting on an ever-widening set of understood or recognized conditions). Start by convincing the room there is a problem to solve before asserting leadership has failed at it. And even if there is a problem to solve: entropy being what it is, there are infinitely more worse ways to do things than there are better. Even if the CDC's approach has room for improvement, from whence comes the confidence that putting a debunked conspiracy believer (https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/11/15/rfk-jrs-conspiracy-theories-heres-what-trumps-pick-for-health-secretary-has-promoted/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/11/15/rfk-jrs-con...) and anti-vaccination activist at its helm leads to improvement?

dh2022 1y ago

It looks like US will not be at the fore front of vaccine development and production. I hope at least this US admin will not ban importing vaccines developed by other countries… they may tariff them, but not ban.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]