9 ms·

Sci-Hub has been blocked in India

285 points by the-mitr 1y ago

renewiltord 1y ago
[flagged]
- rgreekguy 1y ago
  Is it "just" that, or is it Elsevier's, Wiley's, and friends' doing? As I had commented the other day on a same/similar post, One Nation One Subscription was signed with Wiley this February, maybe other publishers have done something similar.
- politelemon 1y ago
  Only a few people will know how to use VPN, not everyone.
  - lstodd 1y ago
    Oppression helps disseminate knowledge. For example in Russia it's common knowledge nowadays to the extent that babushkas discuss relative merits of various VPN services while gathering shrooms in the woods.
- deepsun 1y ago
  It becomes harder as many websites block popular VPNs themselves. Try any US or UK government websites. Or try logging in or ordering something on BestBuy or HomeDepot. Many sites allow ordering but then cancel order next day (e.g. when processing by shop.app). Instagram allows to open a profile either logged in or without a VPN.
  - coderatlarge 1y ago
    in a slightly different direction: many sites also take it upon themselves to implement ip blocks. for example, us-based utility companies or healthcare companies seem to block IPs from “strategic competitor” countries (let’s say) but also from many others including supposed allies.
    - deepsun 1y ago
      And it's a compliance requirement -- you are actually required to block IPs of sanctioned countries and territories. When I argued that Google Cloud must have been blocking those already, they told me to provide some evidence (a written confirmation from GCP that they block the IPs), which is fair.
      - coderatlarge 1y ago
        if a citizen is traveling to another country they shouldn’t be allowed access to their utility bill on the road??
- creata 1y ago
  How are websites blocked in India? Do you need a VPN or can you just use a different DNS server?
  - SanjayMehta 1y ago
    It depends on the service provider. Some used to mess with DNS. Others used to use packet inspection. Personally I’ve not experienced any blocking, probably due to DoH.
faangguyindia 1y ago
Knowledge should not be restricted in anyway, we should have direct access to these and also LLMs as well. Currently, many LLM services only provide stuff from the study abstract.
hto23i423o4234 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
torh 1y ago
This site is blocked at my workplace as well. A message from FortiGate says: "Category: Illegal or Unethical"
- dartharva 1y ago
  Obviously Fortinet is not going to let pirate sites through its firewall
nesk_ 1y ago
What a shameful government! clicks the link blocked Oh right, France government is shameful too.
- slickytail 1y ago
  [dead]
- tavavex 1y ago
  Access to a fully uncensored internet seems to be in decline nowadays, especially in the Western countries. I also saw a comment about this article being blocked in Spain. I'm just glad that my country is still holding out with no centralized censorship authority or mechanism to mass block websites, though that might not last for long with how things are going right now.
  - ignoramous 1y ago
    > Access to a fully uncensored internet seems to be in decline nowadays, especially in the Western countries. At this point, it is a global phenomenon (and there's been discussions at the UN General Assembly on carving up interwebs for "security"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_sovereignty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_sovereignty
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      Central European here. We live for piracy (imagine a more positive term). We do not intend to destroy it. Which means sci-hub and libgen are going to stay. So are torrent trackers. We have our own, too.
      - meindnoch 1y ago
        If piracy was somehow blocked in Central European countries, there would be actual riots.
        1y ago
willgax 1y ago
An individual scientist/researcher (most of them) is in pursuit of truth. Nothing matters, and nothing should matter other than that. For future discoveries, we should make knowledge as accessible as possible. But when an organization forms, it competes for power and superiority. This results in discriminatory actions that cause the overall regression of collective innovation. It is sad to see this happen.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - cyberpunk 1y ago
    Fine, I'll bite. How did scientists (as a whole) lie to people during covid?
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Of course but that depends on one thing. Are you interested in having an honest conversation or are have you already braced yourself to shit on whatever I will say?
      - matwood 1y ago
        Depends on what you say of course. Keep in mind that someone changing their mind as they learn more is not called lying, but is the definition of science.
      - johnisgood 1y ago
        Your comment has been flagged and down-voted to oblivion, and I think the "fine, I'll bite" already answers your question. There is not going to be a conversation. :)
      - cyberpunk 1y ago
        No I honestly don’t ant to know what you think and the evidence for such a claim.
sieve 1y ago
I don't know why they decided to pause uploads. Relying on Indian courts for sensible and timely judgments will only lead to grief. They do not respect precedence and judgements often depend on the judge and the people involved rather than the facts of the case. What happened in University of Oxford v. Rameshwari Photocopy Service is pretty rare.[1] I doubt if we will see a repeat of that one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford_v._Rameshwari_Photocopy_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford_v._Ramesh...
- SanjayMehta 1y ago
  The key factor in a high profile case is to hire the right (expensive) lawyer. There’s one particularly notorious character whose rate card has been published online. He charges INR 1.5 million per appearance in court. The reality is of course that then the appropriate judges will hear the case. Rarely, if ever, will a judge recuse themselves. Strangely, this happened last week. https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/nclat-judge-chennai-recusal-higher-judicial-member-order-favouring-party-301980 https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/nclat-judge-chennai-recu...
- lou1306 1y ago
  I can see the point, but repeating the same action for which you are currently being prosecuted will hardly improve your standing before the court. Quite the opposite, in fact.
  - sieve 1y ago
    What did they expect? That an Indian court will give them some kind of immunity from copyright laws? From some media reports I see, the court has already made up its mind on the issue during a previous hearing:[1] > However, the Court stated that Elbakyan, in her first written statement, admitted that the publishers were owners of copyrighted works. It also noted that Sci-Hub were rejected by the Court when they attempted to amend the statement in 2023. Further, it accused Sci-Hub of partaking in “online piracy” and LibGen “by unauthorized means, circumventing technological measures put in place by Plaintiffs to protect copyright in their literary works.” Thus, they rejected the plea. [1] https://www.medianama.com/2024/05/223-delhi-hc-lawsuit-sci-hub-libgen/ https://www.medianama.com/2024/05/223-delhi-hc-lawsuit-sci-h...
DataDaemon 1y ago
What's wrong with you India?
tim333 1y ago
It's also 'blocked' in the UK, to the extent that I had one more click, on the vpn button, to read the article. (Veepn free browser extension seems to work well - I've used that for a year or two).
- tavavex 1y ago
  That's not 'blocked'. That's just blocked, no quotation marks needed. Most countries' blocking attempts can be bypassed via VPNs, but that doesn't make the frameworks that let this happen any less threatening.
- drbscl 1y ago
  I'd strongly advise against free VPNs; they are a massive security and privacy risk. Here's recent news about another free vpn that took screengrabs of users' sessions: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/a-popular-vpn-extension-for-google-chrome-has-been-screenshotting-every-page-users-visit-freevpn-one-flagged-over-enormous-privacy-concerns https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/a-... As the saying goes, if you're not paying for the product, the product is you.
hnhg 1y ago
Seems like India is shooting itself in the foot by making it more difficult to access knowledge for the benefit of overseas publishers. Countries that don't do this will be at an advantage.
- goku12 1y ago
  This one is a decision by the Delhi High Court. Something that can be overridden with legislation in public interest. However, I'm not holding my breath this time.
- lenkite 1y ago
  Seems like the Indian High Court has decided to kneel to western land lords.
- dartharva 1y ago
  India has single-payer subscription to those journals that it freely distributes to its public colleges. Only India's private research entities are the ones at a "disadvantage", if they ever really used that site.
diggan 1y ago
Ironically, hosted on a page that me in "modern" Spain cannot read as Sci-Hub been blocked here with a lot of ISPs for a long time :)
jacquesm 1y ago
India has nothing to gain and everything to lose with this block.
- goku12 1y ago
  I wish the courts would care about that. Especially the Delhi High Court, which is one of the most politically driven among the bunch.
- FabHK 1y ago
  Isn't the court's job to judge on compliance with the law, rather than looking at outcomes? Considering outcomes, I'd say, is the job of those writing the laws.
- dartharva 1y ago
  India already has single-payer subscription freely provided to students and researchers in most of its colleges, they'll be fine. But yes, not a good look to bend down to foreign publishing companies. They should have told them to f off.
  - marcyb5st 1y ago
    It is not fine. Research is mostly done by Universities that get money from the government. Then the universities have to pay a 3rd party both to publish said research and to get access to research done by others in the same field. Even though it is free for researches/students it costs universities (and therefore indirectly taxpayers) multiple millions $/year. Fuck that. Also, after the scandals of predatory practices (e.g. https://top2percentscientists.com/peer-review-payment-scandals https://top2percentscientists.com/peer-review-payment-scanda...) is there really a benefit in using the services these society leeches provide?
the-mitr 1y ago
It is rather unfortunate, sometime back even internet archive had been blocked (it was unblocked after sometime). Going forward researchers should take a firm stance that all research will be published as open access (not the gold one). That is the only long term solution. That being said Govt. of India did an en mass subscription for many journals for most research institutes, under the One Nation One Subscription scheme https://onos.gov.in/ https://onos.gov.in/
- quinncom 1y ago
  Anna's Archive created SciDB as an alternative to SciHub when SciHub blocked uploads due to a lawsuit. It's a better source to use anyways. Do you know if it's blocked in India?
elashri 1y ago
This is also a reminder that any serious science funding policy changes would address the elephant in the room. Science publication industry employ lobbies of course but the fact still that the requirements of hiring committees and funding decisions on publications in prestigious journals is the reason for this problem. And requiring open access publication is not the solution. The journals demands couple of thousands at least in fees if you opt on this option which is a waste of money that could be spent better. The scientific publications industry profit margin is the highest in the world. Higher even than the High tech companies for a reason [1]. [1] https://theconversation.com/academic-publishing-is-a-multibillion-dollar-industry-its-not-always-good-for-science-250056 https://theconversation.com/academic-publishing-is-a-multibi...
pmdr 1y ago
But has sci-hub really been working as of late? Last time I checked I couldn't find anything.
2Gkashmiri 1y ago
been following the case since day 1. Its sad that the order does not talk about any of the points raised by scihub. This appears to me a one-sided order where the judge (we do not have jury concept in india) might have been a case of "we are copyright holders, our rights trump everything" when the case is for public good and fair use. Fair use was not explained and the plaintiffs took an argument that since alexandria is not an indian citizen or not in india, she does not fear indian laws and that somehow might have tipped the scales. I am sure this would be appealed and i would like to join in, i already tried to contact people few years ago but life got in the way. btw, i am a licensed indian lawyer
boramalper 1y ago
For those who didn’t read the full article, because people often don’t, here is the actual / other major reason why Sci-Hub stopped: > Why Sci-Hub stopped > The court order was not the main reason Sci-Hub stopped releasing new papers: by 2022 most university libraries implemented two-factor authentication, and as a result, Sci-Hub could not automatically login to libraries using student / researcher username and password to download new papers. Those paywall-circumvention methods that worked well in 2011-2015 became useless in 2022.
stonecharioteer 1y ago
Piracy is not a problem India needs to deal with, we have bigger fish to fry. Accessible knowledge is absolutely necessary here, with even the educated masses now believing in complete hokum. I hope this gets overturned, but then again, if you're using the internet without a privacy-first VPN like mullvad, GG.
Aachen 1y ago
Should this sort of submission be using an .onion link, considering how many readers it is blocked for? Assuming (& iirc) sci-hub has an official one
dartharva 1y ago
Indian here, living in Mumbai, can still access sci-hub (.se and all other mirrors). My local broadband provider has not been implementing any of the government bans on websites that other "mainstream" telecom providers are. Yay for small businesses!
dartharva 1y ago
Important to note that India has single-payer subscription for most academic journals, which is freely accessible to students in public colleges throughout the country.
wtmt 1y ago
> Why would a justice in India serve the interests of a few rich foreign companies, while ignoring the needs of Indian students and researchers? Because they’re used to serving the interests of large companies (domestic and international) as well as bowing to any executive comments or opinions. Indian judges rule first with their own opinions and moral views, then maybe look at the law, and then maybe consider the constitution (in that order). As the article notes, people will just use a VPN or Tor to access the sites. The courts in India do not understand technology (like in many other countries). They just acquiesce to the demands from large companies. With the indirect pressure through US tariffs, I wouldn’t rule out the executive finding ways to not annoy the US even more through some means. I have a longstanding pet peeve with it (the judiciary): the entire validity and legality of the Aadhaar biometric identity program has been in limbo, pending hearing by a constitutional bench (the conclusion of “Rojer Mathew v. South Indian Bank”). This bench hasn’t been constituted for several years. Chief Justice after Chief Justice in the Supreme Court has ignored it and let the executive bulldoze everyone to submit, get this “voluntary” (that’s the official definition) number and link it in more and more databases. Long story short, depending on the Indian judiciary for justice on large enough matters that affect the entire country and its future is futile. If it’s a simpler matter affecting one or two companies or a political party, the justice will be swift.
- arunabha 1y ago
  In the Aadhaar issue, the supreme court has at least clarified that aadhaar cannot be mandatory for most things. However, it upheld the requirement for linking PAN numbers to aadhaar. PAN card is required for pretty much any major financial transaction so it does open up a major loophole. However it *is* possible to do a lot of things without Aadhaar, it just takes significantly longer and involves a lot of back and forth. The trick is to get past the frontline folks and talk to someone with real authority. Mentioning the Supreme court judgement or better still the relevant ombudsman does wonders in making the previously 'mandatory' aadhaar non mandatory. I am not very optimistic about the situation improving anytime soon. I'm regularly shocked at how little people care about privacy are offer up detailed personal information on demand.
megaloblasto 1y ago
I have to read a lot of papers for work. Sometimes 2 or 3 a day. Often when I find one I'm interested in, they want $60 to read the one paper. If I have to read one paper a day, that's about $20,000 a year just to stay up to date with the science. That's ridiculous. Thankfully someone is breaking down these barriers to science.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- SamuelAdams 1y ago
  Assuming you are in the States, it would be cheaper to enroll in one course a year and use the universities library system to get the papers you need. What always bothered me about those though is their terribly clunky UI, dozens of redirects, weird auth flows, and more.
  - throwaway48476 1y ago
    Piracy is a service problem. I also have access through university but never use it due to jank.
    - raffael_de 1y ago
      I sometimes don't even bother checking if a movie is on Netflix and instead just go "elsewhere" I know I'll find it for sure. Precisely up until not too long ago Netflix wouldn't even grant me as a Linux user FullHD resolution (despite paying for it). We're at a point where for many artists it isn't about having your work stolen or bought, but rather fading into obscurity versus someone enjoying what you created.
      - igleria 1y ago
        > until not too long ago what changed? I'm tired of having to use the ps5 as a media player :/
thisisit 1y ago
> However, the New Delhi court was never able to make a decision on the matter. The hearings about Sci-Hub were re-scheduled again and again over the course of months and years Unfortunately this is a common tactic - get a ruling which favors you and then file for delays citing sometimes ridiculous excuse. There is no concept of "justice delayed is justice denied" - lot of cases stay in limbo. >I'm aware that although the interim order to block the websites was passed, the case itself is not settled. There are currently intervenors in the case, that you can join. The tactic will remain the same. Keep the case in limbo. That said, people have the jugaad-mindset so, you can bet if this goes through people will find ways to circumvent at massive scale.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
throwaway48476 1y ago
The unseen tragedy of science paywalls is the research tools that haven't been written. The metaphorical wheel is constantly being reinvented by the general public because there is no tool that has access to all journals for doing fuzzy text search.
michaelhoney 1y ago
Why would you make life harder for your own citizens by doing this?
felishiagreen12 1y ago
[dead]

285 points by the-mitr 1y ago

renewiltord 1y ago

[flagged]

rgreekguy 1y ago
Is it "just" that, or is it Elsevier's, Wiley's, and friends' doing? As I had commented the other day on a same/similar post, One Nation One Subscription was signed with Wiley this February, maybe other publishers have done something similar.
politelemon 1y ago
Only a few people will know how to use VPN, not everyone.
- lstodd 1y ago
  Oppression helps disseminate knowledge. For example in Russia it's common knowledge nowadays to the extent that babushkas discuss relative merits of various VPN services while gathering shrooms in the woods.
deepsun 1y ago
It becomes harder as many websites block popular VPNs themselves. Try any US or UK government websites. Or try logging in or ordering something on BestBuy or HomeDepot. Many sites allow ordering but then cancel order next day (e.g. when processing by shop.app). Instagram allows to open a profile either logged in or without a VPN.
- coderatlarge 1y ago
  in a slightly different direction: many sites also take it upon themselves to implement ip blocks. for example, us-based utility companies or healthcare companies seem to block IPs from “strategic competitor” countries (let’s say) but also from many others including supposed allies.
  - deepsun 1y ago
    And it's a compliance requirement -- you are actually required to block IPs of sanctioned countries and territories. When I argued that Google Cloud must have been blocking those already, they told me to provide some evidence (a written confirmation from GCP that they block the IPs), which is fair.
    - coderatlarge 1y ago
      if a citizen is traveling to another country they shouldn’t be allowed access to their utility bill on the road??
creata 1y ago
How are websites blocked in India? Do you need a VPN or can you just use a different DNS server?
- SanjayMehta 1y ago
  It depends on the service provider. Some used to mess with DNS. Others used to use packet inspection. Personally I’ve not experienced any blocking, probably due to DoH.

faangguyindia 1y ago

Knowledge should not be restricted in anyway, we should have direct access to these and also LLMs as well. Currently, many LLM services only provide stuff from the study abstract.

hto23i423o4234 1y ago

[flagged]

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

torh 1y ago

This site is blocked at my workplace as well. A message from FortiGate says: "Category: Illegal or Unethical"

dartharva 1y ago
Obviously Fortinet is not going to let pirate sites through its firewall

nesk_ 1y ago

What a shameful government! clicks the link blocked Oh right, France government is shameful too.

slickytail 1y ago
[dead]
tavavex 1y ago
Access to a fully uncensored internet seems to be in decline nowadays, especially in the Western countries. I also saw a comment about this article being blocked in Spain. I'm just glad that my country is still holding out with no centralized censorship authority or mechanism to mass block websites, though that might not last for long with how things are going right now.
- ignoramous 1y ago
  > Access to a fully uncensored internet seems to be in decline nowadays, especially in the Western countries. At this point, it is a global phenomenon (and there's been discussions at the UN General Assembly on carving up interwebs for "security"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_sovereignty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_sovereignty
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    Central European here. We live for piracy (imagine a more positive term). We do not intend to destroy it. Which means sci-hub and libgen are going to stay. So are torrent trackers. We have our own, too.
    - meindnoch 1y ago
      If piracy was somehow blocked in Central European countries, there would be actual riots.
      - 1y ago

willgax 1y ago

An individual scientist/researcher (most of them) is in pursuit of truth. Nothing matters, and nothing should matter other than that. For future discoveries, we should make knowledge as accessible as possible. But when an organization forms, it competes for power and superiority. This results in discriminatory actions that cause the overall regression of collective innovation. It is sad to see this happen.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
[flagged]
- cyberpunk 1y ago
  Fine, I'll bite. How did scientists (as a whole) lie to people during covid?
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Of course but that depends on one thing. Are you interested in having an honest conversation or are have you already braced yourself to shit on whatever I will say?
    - matwood 1y ago
      Depends on what you say of course. Keep in mind that someone changing their mind as they learn more is not called lying, but is the definition of science.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      Your comment has been flagged and down-voted to oblivion, and I think the "fine, I'll bite" already answers your question. There is not going to be a conversation. :)
    - cyberpunk 1y ago
      No I honestly don’t ant to know what you think and the evidence for such a claim.

sieve 1y ago

I don't know why they decided to pause uploads. Relying on Indian courts for sensible and timely judgments will only lead to grief. They do not respect precedence and judgements often depend on the judge and the people involved rather than the facts of the case. What happened in University of Oxford v. Rameshwari Photocopy Service is pretty rare.[1] I doubt if we will see a repeat of that one. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford_v._Rameshwari_Photocopy_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford_v._Ramesh...

SanjayMehta 1y ago
The key factor in a high profile case is to hire the right (expensive) lawyer. There’s one particularly notorious character whose rate card has been published online. He charges INR 1.5 million per appearance in court. The reality is of course that then the appropriate judges will hear the case. Rarely, if ever, will a judge recuse themselves. Strangely, this happened last week. https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/nclat-judge-chennai-recusal-higher-judicial-member-order-favouring-party-301980 https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/nclat-judge-chennai-recu...
lou1306 1y ago
I can see the point, but repeating the same action for which you are currently being prosecuted will hardly improve your standing before the court. Quite the opposite, in fact.
- sieve 1y ago
  What did they expect? That an Indian court will give them some kind of immunity from copyright laws? From some media reports I see, the court has already made up its mind on the issue during a previous hearing:[1] > However, the Court stated that Elbakyan, in her first written statement, admitted that the publishers were owners of copyrighted works. It also noted that Sci-Hub were rejected by the Court when they attempted to amend the statement in 2023. Further, it accused Sci-Hub of partaking in “online piracy” and LibGen “by unauthorized means, circumventing technological measures put in place by Plaintiffs to protect copyright in their literary works.” Thus, they rejected the plea. [1] https://www.medianama.com/2024/05/223-delhi-hc-lawsuit-sci-hub-libgen/ https://www.medianama.com/2024/05/223-delhi-hc-lawsuit-sci-h...

DataDaemon 1y ago

What's wrong with you India?

tim333 1y ago

It's also 'blocked' in the UK, to the extent that I had one more click, on the vpn button, to read the article. (Veepn free browser extension seems to work well - I've used that for a year or two).

tavavex 1y ago
That's not 'blocked'. That's just blocked, no quotation marks needed. Most countries' blocking attempts can be bypassed via VPNs, but that doesn't make the frameworks that let this happen any less threatening.
drbscl 1y ago
I'd strongly advise against free VPNs; they are a massive security and privacy risk. Here's recent news about another free vpn that took screengrabs of users' sessions: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/a-popular-vpn-extension-for-google-chrome-has-been-screenshotting-every-page-users-visit-freevpn-one-flagged-over-enormous-privacy-concerns https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/a-... As the saying goes, if you're not paying for the product, the product is you.

hnhg 1y ago

Seems like India is shooting itself in the foot by making it more difficult to access knowledge for the benefit of overseas publishers. Countries that don't do this will be at an advantage.

goku12 1y ago
This one is a decision by the Delhi High Court. Something that can be overridden with legislation in public interest. However, I'm not holding my breath this time.
lenkite 1y ago
Seems like the Indian High Court has decided to kneel to western land lords.
dartharva 1y ago
India has single-payer subscription to those journals that it freely distributes to its public colleges. Only India's private research entities are the ones at a "disadvantage", if they ever really used that site.

diggan 1y ago

Ironically, hosted on a page that me in "modern" Spain cannot read as Sci-Hub been blocked here with a lot of ISPs for a long time :)

jacquesm 1y ago

India has nothing to gain and everything to lose with this block.

goku12 1y ago
I wish the courts would care about that. Especially the Delhi High Court, which is one of the most politically driven among the bunch.
FabHK 1y ago
Isn't the court's job to judge on compliance with the law, rather than looking at outcomes? Considering outcomes, I'd say, is the job of those writing the laws.
dartharva 1y ago
India already has single-payer subscription freely provided to students and researchers in most of its colleges, they'll be fine. But yes, not a good look to bend down to foreign publishing companies. They should have told them to f off.
- marcyb5st 1y ago
  It is not fine. Research is mostly done by Universities that get money from the government. Then the universities have to pay a 3rd party both to publish said research and to get access to research done by others in the same field. Even though it is free for researches/students it costs universities (and therefore indirectly taxpayers) multiple millions $/year. Fuck that. Also, after the scandals of predatory practices (e.g. https://top2percentscientists.com/peer-review-payment-scandals https://top2percentscientists.com/peer-review-payment-scanda...) is there really a benefit in using the services these society leeches provide?

the-mitr 1y ago

It is rather unfortunate, sometime back even internet archive had been blocked (it was unblocked after sometime). Going forward researchers should take a firm stance that all research will be published as open access (not the gold one). That is the only long term solution. That being said Govt. of India did an en mass subscription for many journals for most research institutes, under the One Nation One Subscription scheme https://onos.gov.in/ https://onos.gov.in/

quinncom 1y ago
Anna's Archive created SciDB as an alternative to SciHub when SciHub blocked uploads due to a lawsuit. It's a better source to use anyways. Do you know if it's blocked in India?

elashri 1y ago

This is also a reminder that any serious science funding policy changes would address the elephant in the room. Science publication industry employ lobbies of course but the fact still that the requirements of hiring committees and funding decisions on publications in prestigious journals is the reason for this problem. And requiring open access publication is not the solution. The journals demands couple of thousands at least in fees if you opt on this option which is a waste of money that could be spent better. The scientific publications industry profit margin is the highest in the world. Higher even than the High tech companies for a reason [1]. [1] https://theconversation.com/academic-publishing-is-a-multibillion-dollar-industry-its-not-always-good-for-science-250056 https://theconversation.com/academic-publishing-is-a-multibi...

pmdr 1y ago

But has sci-hub really been working as of late? Last time I checked I couldn't find anything.

2Gkashmiri 1y ago

been following the case since day 1. Its sad that the order does not talk about any of the points raised by scihub. This appears to me a one-sided order where the judge (we do not have jury concept in india) might have been a case of "we are copyright holders, our rights trump everything" when the case is for public good and fair use. Fair use was not explained and the plaintiffs took an argument that since alexandria is not an indian citizen or not in india, she does not fear indian laws and that somehow might have tipped the scales. I am sure this would be appealed and i would like to join in, i already tried to contact people few years ago but life got in the way. btw, i am a licensed indian lawyer

boramalper 1y ago

For those who didn’t read the full article, because people often don’t, here is the actual / other major reason why Sci-Hub stopped: > Why Sci-Hub stopped > The court order was not the main reason Sci-Hub stopped releasing new papers: by 2022 most university libraries implemented two-factor authentication, and as a result, Sci-Hub could not automatically login to libraries using student / researcher username and password to download new papers. Those paywall-circumvention methods that worked well in 2011-2015 became useless in 2022.

stonecharioteer 1y ago

Piracy is not a problem India needs to deal with, we have bigger fish to fry. Accessible knowledge is absolutely necessary here, with even the educated masses now believing in complete hokum. I hope this gets overturned, but then again, if you're using the internet without a privacy-first VPN like mullvad, GG.

Aachen 1y ago

Should this sort of submission be using an .onion link, considering how many readers it is blocked for? Assuming (& iirc) sci-hub has an official one

dartharva 1y ago

Indian here, living in Mumbai, can still access sci-hub (.se and all other mirrors). My local broadband provider has not been implementing any of the government bans on websites that other "mainstream" telecom providers are. Yay for small businesses!

dartharva 1y ago

Important to note that India has single-payer subscription for most academic journals, which is freely accessible to students in public colleges throughout the country.

wtmt 1y ago

> Why would a justice in India serve the interests of a few rich foreign companies, while ignoring the needs of Indian students and researchers? Because they’re used to serving the interests of large companies (domestic and international) as well as bowing to any executive comments or opinions. Indian judges rule first with their own opinions and moral views, then maybe look at the law, and then maybe consider the constitution (in that order). As the article notes, people will just use a VPN or Tor to access the sites. The courts in India do not understand technology (like in many other countries). They just acquiesce to the demands from large companies. With the indirect pressure through US tariffs, I wouldn’t rule out the executive finding ways to not annoy the US even more through some means. I have a longstanding pet peeve with it (the judiciary): the entire validity and legality of the Aadhaar biometric identity program has been in limbo, pending hearing by a constitutional bench (the conclusion of “Rojer Mathew v. South Indian Bank”). This bench hasn’t been constituted for several years. Chief Justice after Chief Justice in the Supreme Court has ignored it and let the executive bulldoze everyone to submit, get this “voluntary” (that’s the official definition) number and link it in more and more databases. Long story short, depending on the Indian judiciary for justice on large enough matters that affect the entire country and its future is futile. If it’s a simpler matter affecting one or two companies or a political party, the justice will be swift.

arunabha 1y ago
In the Aadhaar issue, the supreme court has at least clarified that aadhaar cannot be mandatory for most things. However, it upheld the requirement for linking PAN numbers to aadhaar. PAN card is required for pretty much any major financial transaction so it does open up a major loophole. However it *is* possible to do a lot of things without Aadhaar, it just takes significantly longer and involves a lot of back and forth. The trick is to get past the frontline folks and talk to someone with real authority. Mentioning the Supreme court judgement or better still the relevant ombudsman does wonders in making the previously 'mandatory' aadhaar non mandatory. I am not very optimistic about the situation improving anytime soon. I'm regularly shocked at how little people care about privacy are offer up detailed personal information on demand.

megaloblasto 1y ago

I have to read a lot of papers for work. Sometimes 2 or 3 a day. Often when I find one I'm interested in, they want $60 to read the one paper. If I have to read one paper a day, that's about $20,000 a year just to stay up to date with the science. That's ridiculous. Thankfully someone is breaking down these barriers to science.

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SamuelAdams 1y ago
Assuming you are in the States, it would be cheaper to enroll in one course a year and use the universities library system to get the papers you need. What always bothered me about those though is their terribly clunky UI, dozens of redirects, weird auth flows, and more.
- throwaway48476 1y ago
  Piracy is a service problem. I also have access through university but never use it due to jank.
  - raffael_de 1y ago
    I sometimes don't even bother checking if a movie is on Netflix and instead just go "elsewhere" I know I'll find it for sure. Precisely up until not too long ago Netflix wouldn't even grant me as a Linux user FullHD resolution (despite paying for it). We're at a point where for many artists it isn't about having your work stolen or bought, but rather fading into obscurity versus someone enjoying what you created.
    - igleria 1y ago
      > until not too long ago what changed? I'm tired of having to use the ps5 as a media player :/

thisisit 1y ago

> However, the New Delhi court was never able to make a decision on the matter. The hearings about Sci-Hub were re-scheduled again and again over the course of months and years Unfortunately this is a common tactic - get a ruling which favors you and then file for delays citing sometimes ridiculous excuse. There is no concept of "justice delayed is justice denied" - lot of cases stay in limbo. >I'm aware that although the interim order to block the websites was passed, the case itself is not settled. There are currently intervenors in the case, that you can join. The tactic will remain the same. Keep the case in limbo. That said, people have the jugaad-mindset so, you can bet if this goes through people will find ways to circumvent at massive scale.

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throwaway48476 1y ago

The unseen tragedy of science paywalls is the research tools that haven't been written. The metaphorical wheel is constantly being reinvented by the general public because there is no tool that has access to all journals for doing fuzzy text search.

michaelhoney 1y ago

Why would you make life harder for your own citizens by doing this?

felishiagreen12 1y ago

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