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Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition
- nine_k 1y agoBasically, paracetamol turns out to be mildly contraceptive, by meddling with cell division cycle. I wonder if it might also slow healing of wounds, or wherever else intense cell division happens.
- artvandelai 1y agoNSAIDs reduce inflammation. Since inflammation is part of healing, they can slow recovery, but they’re useful when inflammation itself is a problem.
- e40 1y agoparacetamol is not an NSAID.
- privacyking 1y agoTrue but one of the proposed mechanisms of action is on the same pathway as NSAIDs
- OldfieldFund 1y agoYou are right COX-1/2 difference
- artvandelai 1y agoYes, but since the parent was talking about drugs with similar effects slowing healing, I thought it was appropriate to mention.
- oh_my_goodness 1y agoI think rapid cell division might occur during embryo development. Not a biologist. Just a guess.
- 10-1-100 1y agoThe authors touch on potential wider implications in the abstract: > These results suggest that APAP should be used with caution by women attempting to conceive. Given that cell division is fundamental to all development, further investigation is now warranted to substantiate these findings and to elucidate possible implications for other developmental processes, such as gonadal and brain differentiation.
- bitwize 1y agoThe vaccine-autism smoking gun that Andrew Wakefield and RFK Jr. heroically tried to find has, so far, failed to turn up. But there was a study recently that showed that autism is correlated with the mother taking acetaminophen during pregnancy.
- SoftTalker 1y agoThe general advice is to not take any medication during pregnancy without a physician’s advice. This includes all over the counter medicines.
- adaml_623 1y agoProvide a reference please. Which country is that from?
- SoftTalker 1y agoUSA, what my wife’s OB told her. 20 years ago.
- sarchertech 1y agoThe OB will give you a list of what you can and can’t take. Tylenol is the only pain reliever you can take.
- SoftTalker 1y agoI’d say that qualifies as physician advice.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- adaml_623 1y agoOh I was hoping for a written down reference from an organisation responsible for giving medical advice rather than an single doctor.
- odyssey7 1y agoUnsure if this is related, but I’ve heard that taking painkillers for delayed onset muscle soreness will reduce muscle gains.
- 15155 1y agoAnti-inflammatories - not all painkillers.
- rkomorn 1y agoSo, literally "no pain, no gain" ?
- cenamus 1y agoSame goes for icebaths, they reduce inflammation, which is the whole point of working out.
- wiml 1y agoDoes the opposite hold true as well? If I taunt a wasp nest after hitting the gym will I discover the fast route to mad gains?
- rkomorn 1y agoYou'll certainly get swole.
- vanderZwan 1y agoWhat about ginger? Because that apparently only downregulates COX-2 without affection COX-1 (most inflammation-reducing drugs affect both)
- antonkochubey 1y agoEtoricoxib does just that and is widely available at least in the EU
- 1y ago
- latchkey 1y ago> "Smoking and alcohol are established risk factors for spontaneous abortion, underscoring the importance of the chemical environment during embryonic development." Both of my parents are/were heavy smokers drinkers from their teenage years. Mom died of lung cancer from smoking. Kind of wild to think that the odds were really stacked against my birth.
- roughly 1y agoNature really, really, really wants you to have kids. It took us collectively as a species most of our existence to find genuinely effective methods to alter our biology sufficient to block this process, and we still have a hard time doing it without dramatically impacting the host organism.
- bena 1y agoThis is probably one of those things where the risk is normally small, so small increases cause large changes in percentage. For instance, if spontaneous abortion is normally 1% and smoking increases it to 2%, then that’s a 100% increase. Now, I don’t know the actual numbers, and smoking is just generally not good for one’s health, but I wouldn’t go as far to say things were stacked against you.
- SoftTalker 1y agoMillions of kids have been born to parents who smoked and drank all the way through their pregnancies, especially before the 1970s or so. It raises risks, but doesn’t guarantee bad outcomes.
- rendx 1y agoMany, many more but here's a few you might want to start with: "The meta-analysis showed a significant association between maternal tobacco smoking during pregnancy and increased risk of ADHD in offspring." Mohammadian M, Khachatryan LG, Vadiyan FV, Maleki M, Fatahian F, et al. (2025) The association between maternal tobacco smoking during pregnancy and the risk of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in offspring: A systematic review and meta-analysis. PLOS ONE 20(2): e0317112. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0317112 https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0317112 "Compared with unexposed controls, individuals with PAE reported significantly higher frequencies of problems with hearing, dentition, heart, cancer, gastritis, kidney stones, bladder, diabetes, thyroid, skin, and seizures." Coles, C.D., Shapiro, Z.R., Kable, J.A., Stoner, S.A., Ritfeld, G.J. & Grant, T.M. (2024) Prenatal alcohol exposure and health at midlife: Self-reported health outcomes in two cohorts. Alcohol: Clinical and Experimental Research, 48, 2045–2059. https://doi.org/10.1111/acer.15441 https://doi.org/10.1111/acer.15441 "Our results indicate that perinatal exposure to maternal smoking is associated with increased risks of CVD events, and such relations are modified by adulthood smoking behaviors." H., Liang, Z., Wang, H., Cardoso, M. A., Heianza, Y., & Qi, L. (2021). Perinatal exposure to maternal smoking and adulthood smoking behaviors in predicting cardiovascular diseases: A prospective cohort study. Atherosclerosis, 328, 52–59. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atherosclerosis.2021.05.009 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atherosclerosis.2021.05.009 "Our findings support previous findings suggesting the detrimental effects of prenatal binge drinking on child cognition. Prenatal alcohol exposure at levels less than daily drinking might be detrimentally associated with child behavior. The results of this review highlight the importance of abstaining from binge drinking during pregnancy and provide evidence that there is no known safe amount of alcohol to consume while pregnant." Flak, A. L., Su, S., Bertrand, J., Denny, C. H., Kesmodel, U. S., & Cogswell, M. E. (2014). The association of mild, moderate, and binge prenatal alcohol exposure and child neuropsychological outcomes: a meta-analysis. Alcoholism, clinical and experimental research, 38(1), 214–226. https://doi.org/10.1111/acer.12214 https://doi.org/10.1111/acer.12214 You may not not want to hear this, but let's put it plainly: Prenatal smoking and alcohol is clear and obvious child maltreatment.
- GeekyBear 1y agoIt's probably worth mentioning that this drug is called Acetaminophen in the US, and is the active ingredient in Tylenol and other over the counter medicines.
- more_corn 1y ago[flagged]
- mctt 1y agoYes, https://www.thisamericanlife.org/505/use-only-as-directed https://www.thisamericanlife.org/505/use-only-as-directed The episode shows how even small overdoses of acetaminophen can cause fatal liver damage, while decades of FDA delays and confusing drug labeling left millions of Americans at risk.
- astrange 1y agoTylenol is very safe if taken as prescribed. The overdose amount is relatively low, but not uniquely low. The alternatives are worse - ibuprofen destroys your stomach lining if taken at the regular dose for too long.
- yes_man 1y agoIbuprofen also increases risk of strokes and NSAIDs have been linked to increased risk of intracerebral hemorrhage. It’s a question of whether benefits outweigh cons on population level and I am not an expert, but recommending ibuprofen over acetaminophen might be over-simplifying things. It depends on the person (their meds, their pre-existing conditions, their genetics etc)
- Lammy 1y ago> ibuprofen destroys your stomach lining if taken at the regular dose for too long. This is how the VA killed my dad :/
- epcoa 1y ago
- de6u99er 1y agoCan the effects of a drug on the body be reversed after a person stops taking it?
- epgui 1y agoSometimes yes, sometimes no.
- thisislife2 1y agoYes, in most cases. Or are you specifically asking about Paracetamol?
- davikr 1y agoFor paracetamol intoxication, there is n-acetylcysteine.
- ck2 1y agoAcetaminophen/Paracetamol is a cox3 inhibitor it also messes with bone formation so be careful using it for any length of time especially after athletic activity
- propter_hoc 1y ago[flagged]
- fredley 1y agoBarely effective? The difference 20 minutes after my toddler takes a dose is astonishing.
- dreamcompiler 1y agoIt's also a very effective drug for reducing high fevers in infants and children. There are legitimate reasons to complain about APAP but calling it a placebo is nonsense.
- soVeryTired 1y ago> I won't get into the history of why people take so much acetaminophen despite how crappy a drug it is. I'd love if you did. What's the story there?
- propter_hoc 1y agoBasically, the pharma industry's most successful marketing campaign ever. Here's an article from 1982: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/10/02/how-tylenol-grew-from-a-little-known-drug-to-the-worlds-largest-selling-health-product/5fdfa0f5-445a-4243-91a7-39aa014658c6/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/10/02/h... https://archive.md/rssPI https://archive.md/rssPI
- tylerhou 1y ago> ibuprofen is better in every way. Taking ibuprofen (or other NSAIDs) long-term can wear away the stomach lining, causing ulcers. Acetaminophen is generally better tolerated to manage mild long-term pain than NSAIDs, as long as you don't overdose / take with alcohol.
- propter_hoc 1y ago
- Terr_ 1y agoI've always had an (unreasonable?) dislike of Paracetamol/Tylenol ever since I found out it was the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US. Liver failure is scary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning
- jonkoops 1y agoAs with all things, the poison is in the dose. A tonne of incredibly useful medicine can kill you if dosed incorrectly.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Terr_ 1y ago> Public awareness that Tylenol causes liver failure which will last weeks before death might dissuade some. I suspect it will: There's statistical evidence from how Britain migrated its cooking gas systems away from carbon-monoxide-heavy mixes [0] indicating overall suicide-rates are sensitive to convenience and involve short-term periods of vulnerability. As contrasted to "if they really want to they'll find a way no matter what." [1] __________ [0] https://www.npr.org/2008/07/08/92319314/in-suicide-prevention-its-method-not-madness https://www.npr.org/2008/07/08/92319314/in-suicide-preventio... [1] That said, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bimodal distribution lurking in there, between "depressed but otherwise healthy" versus "terminal diagnosis and chronic pain." The latter-group might not be deterred by inconvenience.
- pjerem 1y agoSure but it’s pretty easy overdose on paracetamol. Since it’s a mild and really common painkiller, sometimes seen as not dangerous, someone uneducated about it who is really suffering could easily take 3 or 4 times the dose. Unlike a lot of drugs, you are not going to have a lot of immediate side effects if you overdose on paracetamol. You’ll just horribly die some days after,
- moi2388 1y ago“ APAP could contribute to early embryonic loss by impairing initial cell divisions. These results suggest that APAP should be used with caution by women attempting to conceive. Given that cell division is fundamental to all development, further investigation is now warranted” By the same logic it would now be effective against cancer, no?
- oliveiracwb 1y agoI live in Brazil. We have broad access to non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Even the best-known medicines have unexpected and unknown adverse effects: in general and specifically in people with unexpected genetic, enzymatic, and protein variations. This has no solution. The medicine acts differently in each body, which is subtly diverse from the others. I see a lot of research criticizing any "old" general medicine and introducing the "new" one. I don't know if this is the case. Every medicine has its rush, half-life, and side effects, and its actions are not fully mapped. My preference for long-term treatments is: dipyrone. Short term: ibuprofen. Lymphatic pain: paracetamol. It may not make sense, but that's how I use it.
- moritzwarhier 1y agoInteresting how you put metamizole at #1 for long-term treatment. As far as my experience goes, many doctors do the same in Germany. On the other hand, I've heard that the medication is banned in many other countries. I guess the safest way is to take up the treatment in a hospital, to check for immediate bad reactions. On the other hand, like with many medications, severe allergies and individual sensibilities causing side effects often don't show up often in the short term, but rather suddenly after many dose intakes. So I'm back where I started. Not disagreeing with what you say. It seems like these non-steroidal pain relief medications are poorly understood regarding their interaction with the whole body though. Many OTC medications and even some prescribed ones (especially psychiatric medications) suffer from a very poor understanding and apparent lack of effort in improving the understanding of their mechanisms of action.
- davikr 1y agoMetamizole is safe to take on the long-term, which is not the case for NSAIDs (nephrotoxic) and corticosteroids.
- moritzwarhier 1y agoI guess that's why metamizole is often a part of the standard treatment for mid-term exogenic pain here, for example after injuries or during some treatments involving pain. Not addictive, not hepatotoxic, not nephrotoxic. Seems the reason for the ban / harder regulation in some countries is about the disturbance of blood-forming in some individuals (which can also be deadly, but I have no idea of the quantified risk here). Ibuprofen and acetaminophen are more common for short-term treatment, at least that's what I've been taught. Avoid taking them on a schedule, take them as needed and at the lowest effective dosage. A.s.s. (lol) too, apart from the low-dose usage that some claim to be helpful with heart/artery diseases.
- thrance 1y agoI'm sure an untreated infection might be more upsetting.
- hollerith 1y agoExcept that paracetamol does not treat infections.
- mythrwy 1y agoI won't take acetaminophen (usually) learning of the liver toxicity and low overdose potential. And I have a friend that destroyed his kidneys with ibuprofen and is on a transplant list. But from what I understand acetaminophen also dulls emotional pain like from being fired or breaking up with a girlfriend which is interesting. I still prefer to take neither if I can avoid it and I'll hurt a little bit instead. Hurt a lot and I'd probably change my mind though.
- javcasas 1y ago> And I have a friend that destroyed his kidneys with ibuprofen Acetaminophen is not ibuprofen. But I also don't like planes because a friend of mine died in a car crash.
- mythrwy 1y agoI know and don't believe I implied they were. There is also the final sentence about preferring to take "neither". Which of course indicates _two_ substances. But just to be safe, I don't think the liver and the kidneys are the same organ either :)
- Noe2097 1y agoIsn't paracetamol forbidden in the US for pregnant women already? It is in other countries
- sarchertech 1y agoNo it’s the only allowed pain reliever for pregnant women in the US. It’s also allowed in the UK and the EU from what I can tell. What countries are you talking abou?
- Noe2097 1y agoSincere apologies, I mixed ibuprofen and paracetamol. Ibuprofen is forbidden for pregnant women in the last 4 months in France at least - and by "forbidden", I mean "strongly advised against in a case of self medication".
- jeroenhd 1y agoAs far as I can tell from my local health organisations, paracetamol is one of the safest painkillers for pregnant women. That doesn't make it very safe, but NSAIDs carry well known risks during later stages of pregnancy, and opiods aren't exactly harmless either. Even aspirin carries risk (and aspirin doesn't even work as well compared to other drugs). As far as I can tell paracetamol is still the first choice for painkillers while pregnant, but only because none of them are completely safe to use. It's probably fine for short term usage, but that also goes for non-pregnant people to be honest.
- mynegation 1y agoYou are probably thinking of ibuprofen which is considered non safe during pregnancy. Paracetamol is pretty much the only OTC pain relief medication that is recommended for pregnant women.
- Noe2097 1y agoYes indeed, you are absolutely right. Sorry about that.
- WorkerBee28474 1y agoThere is mounting talk of a link between Paracetamol/Acetaminophen/Tylenol and autism. Some links: https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pregnancy-may-increase-childrens-autism-and-adhd-risk/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pre... https://jennifermargulis.substack.com/p/why-this-doctor-is-convinced-he-knows https://jennifermargulis.substack.com/p/why-this-doctor-is-c...
- zoeysmithe 1y agoIt tends to be poor scholarship imho. Autistic moms are more likely to have chronic illness, sensory issues, auto immune issues, etc thus are more likely to be taking medications. In the end, the autistic mom just passes her autistic genes to the baby.
- sigpwned 1y agoA study published in JAMA in 2024 concluded that there is no evidence for that claim (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406): Question: Does acetaminophen use during pregnancy increase children’s risk of neurodevelopmental disorders? Findings: In this population-based study, models without sibling controls identified marginally increased risks of autism and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) associated with acetaminophen use during pregnancy. However, analyses of matched full sibling pairs found no evidence of increased risk of autism (hazard ratio, 0.98), ADHD (hazard ratio, 0.98), or intellectual disability (hazard ratio, 1.01) associated with acetaminophen use. Meaning: Acetaminophen use during pregnancy was not associated with children’s risk of autism, ADHD, or intellectual disability in sibling control analyses. This suggests that associations observed in other models may have been attributable to confounding.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- WorkerBee28474 1y agoThe 1 study you linked does not disprove the newer 46-study analysis that I linked. Quoting from it: "We identified 46 studies for inclusion in our analysis. Of these, 27 studies reported positive associations (significant links to NDDs), 9 showed null associations (no significant link), and 4 indicated negative associations (protective effects). Higher-quality studies were more likely to show positive associations."
- nikolay 1y agoI never took Tylenol/Paracetamol/acetaminophen, or anything containing it or given it to my children. We never reduce fever below 39.5/103.1 either - risks of febrile seizures are overstated and if you're a responsible parent, not a lazy one, you can see if things are going South, but there are other traditional means to lower fever. People are just too spoiled nowadays! I tested positive with COVID-19 on Tuesday and had a pretty high fever (103) with a terrible headache, but I didn't take ibuprofen. First, because it could lower my fever, second, because its anti-inflammatory effect would compromise my immune system response to the pathogen. Most people I know immediately try to lower their fever to reduce their discomfort and would immediately take it for headaches, too.
- littlestymaar 1y ago> risks of febrile seizures are overstated and if you're a responsible parent, not a lazy one, you can see if things are going South Not always. Blaming “lazy” and irresponsible parents is disgusting.
- nikolay 1y agoBut it's the truth. Something that has just a 2% incidence should not dictate 98% of the treatments. Compromising the innate immunity of the 98% is more disgusting!
- littlestymaar 1y ago> But it's the truth. No it's not, in many case there's just no way the parent can tell something is about to go wrong. > Something that has just a 2% incidence should not dictate 98% of the treatments. This isn't the same argument, and I would agree if it was true, but you're distorting numbers as the actual prevalence estimations lie between 2 and 14%[1]. Now you could make the argument that 10% is low enough of incidence it shouldn't dictate the treatment of the other 90%, but that's not what you're doing, instead you are blaming helpless parents and cherry picking numbers, making nothing but noise. Oh, and by the way, most parents aren't in fact giving their kids paracetamol for that particular reason (as most parents are simply unaware of the existence of febrile seizures), but to help their children sleep and rest (and so themselves can sleep). And in fact, resting being key in innate immunity efficiency, I'm not particularly convinced about the effectiveness of letting your kids cry all night because of the pain and fever. You do what you want with your own kids, but there's no justification for insulting other parents. Good day. [1]: https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4240 https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4240
- notcodingtoday 1y agoExpected in-depth discussions about the topic, but got pseudo-science medical advice instead. I guess HN _is_ a 'social media' after all.
- Cornbilly 1y agoThis site is populated by mid-level code monkeys and “founders” of junk B2B startups. So, two groups that have an inflated sense of their own intelligence and believe everything that leaves their lips (or tips of their fingers) is on level of God’s word.
- dbg31415 1y agoWhat scares me about this is that Tylenol is a drug that's been handed out to everyone, for everything, for decades. And if we could miss how dangerous this one is, what are the odds other drugs aren't just as risky? Side note, here's a Scrubs clip from 2001 that shows just how ubiquitous Tylenol was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcDWj7kZcRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcDWj7kZcRc I know the anti-vax crowd is full of homeopaths, chiropractors, and tarot readers. But they're not wrong about one thing: drug companies make money by selling drugs. If we can't guarantee real oversight before those drugs hit the market, we're in deep trouble.
- jongjong 1y agoIt's interesting because my wife has been using Ibuprofen for headache relief, whereas I use Paracetamol. I usually got Paracetamol growing up but recent studies showing adverse effects of Ibuprofen on male fertility solidified my resolve and consistency in choosing Paracetamol. My wife's reason for using Ibuprofen was simply because it worked better for her. Now it's kind of surprising to learn that Paracetamol has negative effect on women's fertility... I guess this means that both drugs are harmful to a different gender? What a coincidence? We were both using the optimal one for ourselves for reasons beyond our understanding... Until more data comes out. Anyway, I understand arguments for avoiding drugs, medicines and chemicals altogether. Clearly, everything is more complex than it seems and side effects can never be fully known or understood; especially on a case-by-base basis given that everyone's DNA is different and responds differently to chemicals. I only take Paracetamol if I have a migraine with visual aura which is quite rare. I don't take it for standard headaches.
- wiredpancake 1y agoAnyone know what the long term side effects are? I've been taking multiple paracetamol tablets for years now, almost out of habit now.
- vrighter 1y agoAn unhappy liver, mainly
- tsoukase 1y agoEmbryonic development is so sensitive, especially that if nervous system. I suggest to my patients total drug avoidance. Even peeling off the tomatoes.