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Show HN: OS X Mavericks Forever

402 points by Wowfunhappy 1y ago

bangonkeyboard 1y ago
Can you touch on how some of these patches were made/backported from and to closed-source binaries? Which underlying proxy is Aqua Proxy built on?
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  > Which underlying proxy is Aqua Proxy built on? Aqua Proxy's source code is here: https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/AquaProxy/tree/master https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/AquaProxy/tree/master. It mostly leverages the Go standard library. One thing I really like is that it won't MITM any requests that use TLS 1.3 or HTTP2. Since Mavericks doesn't support these protocols natively, the proxy knows this traffic must be coming from a relatively-modern app that ships its own TLS implementation and doesn't need any help. > Can you touch on how some of these patches were made/backported from and to closed-source binaries? The Mail plugin just disables a feature via Objective-C swizzling. Swizzling is fun, you can replace any method in any app with your own version. I usually use class-dump to get a list of methods in the original app, read the method names to guess at what each one does, and try the ones that look promising. More recently I've begun using Hopper (a proper decompiler/disassembler) more heavily, particularly because Claude is very good at reading both assembly and decompiler babble and can direct me. The font patch is just a hex edit. To quote the readme: >> The patch removes the `fnt_adjust` TrueType instruction from Apple's font rendering code. This instruction has not been used by legitimate fonts since the 90s. After CVE-2023-41990 was published, Apple responded by removing this instruction from modern macOS. This patch merely does the same on Mavericks. The patched library replaces the vulnerable instruction with a no-op.
  - bangonkeyboard 1y ago
    Thanks.
brudgers 1y ago
It is an interesting article, but not really a Show HN because there is nothing I can play with or try out...unless you ship me an old compatible Mac... my email is in my profile :
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  ...I'll admit I wasn't entirely sure if this could be a Show HN or not, I might have chosen wrong! However, the guide includes a ton of software I made, which can absolutely be tried out—Aqua Proxy, updated QuickTime components, SIMBL plugins, etc—by anyone with compatible hardware. I'm sorry you don't have the right hardware. :( You could use a virtual machine but there's really no point. But I don't think this in itself should disqualify a Show HN submission, right? Otherwise, the only thing people could submit would be webapps!
  - k_badcommand 1y ago
    I found this useful, appropriate section or not- thanks for sharing
  - brudgers 1y ago
    I was wrong and did not read the fine print on the downloads. Sorry.
Ezhik 1y ago
Oh man, I actually used this guide when putting Mavericks on my old Mac! So damn nice. The UI is still so fresh. Neat that there's Firefox for it now. Last I tried it, I had to do Chromium-legacy, though I wouldn't exactly want to take an old unpatched machine online very often.
k_badcommand 1y ago
You are a madlad! Also, I have an iMac 2013 that might benefit from this so thank you kindly!
stuaxo 1y ago
This is nice, I wish there was way to bring the old Rosetta over, though I guess it probably needs something like all/some parts of the OS to be compiled as fat binaries to work,
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  You'd need to compile a custom kernel, but it might it be possible. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rosetta-on-10-7-and-above-what-has-been-tried.2333940/post-30837567 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rosetta-on-10-7-and-abo... > 10.6 xnu does have special support for rosetta, namely in kern_exec where it seems to set some special ppc environment bits if the oah binary is invoked (and of course there's the handler to call the oah binary for a ppc mach-o, but the former is more important for minimal viable example since you can always invoke oah manually). I think this bit is actually needed because the kernel has other codepath here when allocating memory. (Not 100% confident though, bit it makes sense there are different conventions about base address, region sizes, etc.) > Likely might need changes to dyld also for obvious reasons, but that's open source as well https://opensource.apple.com/source/dyld/dyld-132.13/src/dyld.cpp https://opensource.apple.com/source/dyld/dyld-132.13/src/dyl... > Would be easiest to try getting a plain assembly hello world ppc binary working first. I see that someone on your linked thread tried copying translate binary but it crashed even without args; tracing in lldb would be the logical next step but seems he never followed up on that... > Another thing which I'm not sure of is whether rosetta relies on existence of ppc-arch system frameworks; I'd assume not since they'd want to do high-level thunking here for performance, but maybe that only ends up being done in some cases? I couldn't find any docs on reverse engineering rosetta1m or if they exist they've disappeared. A possible counterpoint to the last paragraph would be, if Rosetta doesn't need those system frameworks why are so many libraries in Snow Leopard compiled as intel-ppc universal binaries? If those actually get used, a port would be much more difficult.
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    Trying to get this to work three OSes later seems kind of hard.
stuaxo 1y ago
This is tempting to stick on my 2012 Mac Mini. The newer version of MacOS on it, has become basically useless. Windows 10 on it, has been handy for when I want to watch Apple TV, or use Channel 4 (who still don't generically support their app on Android which my TV runs). But now Windows won't update to 11. So maybe time to move from Windows to Linux and downgrade the MacOS.
brewmarche 1y ago
The MacBook Air mentioned (2014) will install Mavericks when booted into recovery mode anyway (unless you use Option-Command-R which will give you the newest compatible version which is Big Sur). I did that a few days ago and I agree, it’s quite snappy! Missing certificates can also be installed manually (e.g. from the curl CA bundle), but even then TLS 1.3 support is lacking in most apps which breaks a lot of stuff without the suggested proxy. A lot of MacPorts ports also do not build sadly. The look is so much better than current macOS.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  > The MacBook Air mentioned (2014) will install Mavericks when booted into recovery mode anyway (unless you use Option-Command-R which will give you the newest compatible version which is Big Sur). Certain 2014 Macbook Airs, including my own, will install Yosemite instead in recovery mode for some reason, even though obviously I'm using Mavericks and it runs fine.
  - brewmarche 1y ago
    I think it depends on what was the current version when your model came out. Should have said mid-2014 like OP, sorry
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      > Should have said mid-2014 like OP, sorry I don't want to belabor the point, but just to be clear—I am referring to a mid-2014 MBA, anything newer and Mavericks wouldn't work! (There is no "late 2014" MBA as far as I'm aware.) Mine offers to install Yosemite in recovery mode. It may indeed be based on when that specific computer came off of the assembly line or something, I have no idea, but for that exact model of computer you can get different results in recovery mode!
      - brewmarche 1y ago
        Good to know. Mine is from June 2014 (assembly, since it’s a custom configuration). Sorry for missing your point.
Amorymeltzer 1y ago
In terms of the "Why Mavericks?" section, >I knew I wanted an operating system from before Apple abandoned the Aqua design language. I suppose it depends on your definition, but that likely does mean Mavericks is the latest available. For my money though, El Capitan (10.11 to Mavericks' 10.9) was the local maxima (speed, stability, capability). I've no inkling what issues using that would entail—I had no idea that Mountain Lion had "a more capable version of QuickTime"—but my immediate response to this was wondering why not El Capitan.
- delta_p_delta_x 1y ago
  Strictly speaking, Mavericks (and Mountain Lion and Lion before it) were already some way through abandoning Aqua. Lion dropped the beautiful blue scroll bars that previous OS Xs had, replaced the pill-shaped buttons with rounded rectangles, and somewhat flattened the overall UI as well, though not to the extent that Yosemite did.
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    But even as a fan of Aqua, I think it's nice that some of these elements got toned down just a bit. Really, you could view most of the design changes from OS X 10.0 onwards as Apple slowly toning down Aqua; the original Cheetah looks kind of gaudy IMO, the interface elements draw too much attention to themselves. I do miss Snow Leopard's scroll bars though, as I explicitly call out on the website!
- terhechte 1y ago
  You needed to own a "QuickTime Pro" license in order to enable these features. I used to do all my simple video editing with it until they shelved it.
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    You're thinking of QuickTime 7, that can be optionally installed (as a separate app) even on macOS 10.14 Mojave! But the website is referring to versions of QuickTime X. QuickTime 10.2, which was included with Mountain Lion, was the last to support third-party components. (If you've ever used "Perian", that's what I'm referring to.)
wsc981 1y ago
I noticed the app section included VPN. Recently I've been looking for some VPN solution and found that many are quite expensive, though often you get a decent enough discount if you subscribe for like a year or longer. Also, I believe many services are probably not trustworthy (regardless of their claims). A very affordable alternative is a DigitalOcean droplet with PiHole. You can connect with this VPN with Wireguard, which will probably work just fine on Mavericks. Been using this now for a couple of months and no issues. My costs are probably around 3-4 USD per month, but I don't use VPN all the time.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  I haven't used WireGuard, but it looks like the main macOS implementation uses Go. Binaries built with Go 1.19 or below will work on Mavericks if you inject some compatibility libraries. (This is one of many things I haven't had time to fully document on the website yet, but I can help anyone who asks.) But the big problem with non-native VPNs on Mavericks (by which I mean, any VPN which requires installing additional software beyond what is built-in to the OS) is that they tend to bypass any HTTPS proxies you have set up. Without an HTTPS proxy, Mavericks will have trouble connecting to most servers because SecureTransport doesn't support modern cipher suites. In e.g. Firefox Dynasty this won't matter since it ships its own (modern) SSL implementation, but Apple Mail (for example) will be unable to load most remote images. This is why I have the note about privatevpn on the website—it took me a bit of searching to find a service that was low cost and supported a Mavericks native VPN protocol. I don't really "trust" any VPN service, but they're useful in certain specific situations.
  - wsc981 1y ago
    Thanks for the explanation regarding Mavericks issues with third-party VPN software.
nutjob2 1y ago
This is way I feel, but my last stop is 10.15 (Catalina) having started with 3.2. Modern macOS is just trash. My goal over the longer term is to fully migrate to Android, especially desktop mode. There are several reasons for this but maybe the fact that given the typical hardware for Android means it's less likely suffer the terminal bloat of desktop systems.
- memsom 1y ago
  I stayed on Catalina for a long time as it was the last version my Macbook Pro 2012 supported natively. It is a pretty solid OS, though it is harder to get Apple services running on it now. I personally just use Sonoma now on my Macbook Pro M3 Pro.
moondev 1y ago
Was hoping this legendary gtk themer had a mavericks theme but Yosemite is the earliest it appears. https://github.com/vinceliuice/Yosemite-gtk-theme https://github.com/vinceliuice/Yosemite-gtk-theme If you want a macOS theme with insane quality on Linux this guy's work is the pinnacle.
- kccqzy 1y ago
  You call that insane quality? I took a five second look at the GitHub page and I already noticed that the spacing between the three traffic light buttons is wrong. It immediately felt off.
  - moondev 1y ago
    The theme is actually correct, Apple is wrong
  - h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
    Great! Go make a pull request, that's the power of open source.
    - kccqzy 1y ago
      I'm not about to dedicate any minute of my time when my first impression of a project is bad. It's like meeting new people: I'm not going to try to meet up with you again to find more common ground if my first impression of a person is bad.
NoSalt 1y ago
My exit from the Macintosh OS was in 2011 with the release of OS X 10.7 Lion; meaning the end of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. It was at that point when I realized that Apple was going more towards an "appliance" company than a computing company. They started making it more and more difficult to access the power of the Unix core. So I packed up my virtual bags and moved to Linux once and for all. I started with Mint (for about a minute), then went to Ubuntu, now I am at Debian (with the Xfce DE); probably forever.
felixding 1y ago
I can, and will, totally use this as my daily driver on my MBP 2013, if there is Tailscale and a up-to-date iTerm2. The UI is soooo much better than the current Mac OS.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  I'm afraid the newest compatible iTerm2 is 3.0.15 from 2017 [1]. It's open source so it might be possible to build a newer version to be compatible, or to cherry pick certain newer features. It's not an app I use though. 1: https://iterm2.com/downloads/beta/iTerm2-3_0_15.zip https://iterm2.com/downloads/beta/iTerm2-3_0_15.zip
latexr 1y ago
> Don't you love how hackable everything is? Removing stock apps from the Applications folder is completely safe—nothing will break—and this is your computer, so you should make it your own. You can always restore apps later using Time Machine. Just don't delete System Preferences, or anything in the Utilities folder. This was pretty funny. “You can do anything, and you should be able to do anything, nothing will break”, then in the same paragraph “but don’t do this specific thing”. Yes, there is immense value in being able to do whatever we want with our computers without restrictions. But let’s not pretend there isn’t value in being able to set restrictions too. Everything in computers is a tradeoff. Having an immutable signed OS has plenty of advantages, including for hackers: I feel much safer telling people to “just try stuff” when I know there isn’t a risk of them breaking everything and being left with an unbootable machine, leaving them feeling stupid and scared of trying anything else. More advanced tasks can come later. Kudos for the project in general, though, I’m not throwing shade. I too am discontent with Apple under Tim Cook, but staying on an older version of macOS isn’t an acceptable solution for my use cases, I’d sooner switch to a BSD.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  > This was pretty funny. “You can do anything, and you should be able to do anything, nothing will break”, then in the same paragraph “but don’t do this specific thing”. This is fair, but I will say, there's a reason I put this section after "Please enable Time Machine." ...you actually could get rid of System Preferences, if you really wanted to, and use the Terminal to set Preferences instead. The reason I called out System Preferences is because, growing up, my younger brother did delete System Preferences! He didn't have Time Machine, and this didn't come up until we were traveling and he couldn't connect to a new wifi network. So that was a little annoying. But I'm probably further making your point, and I do largely agree with you! The thing is, my computer is my home--I spend so much time there--and I just can't deal with having my home littered with Apple cruft.
- Raed667 1y ago
  running a funky chmod command recursively on my root dir and then learning how to fix it, probably taught me more about how linux works than any tutorial or article i've ever read. have fun! break things!
avidphantasm 1y ago
> The Unicode Consortium has introduced a lot of new emojis since Mavericks was released. We need to add them to Mavericks! No, we don’t. If I had infinite free time, I’d build a Linux distro that completely lacks support for emoji (and animated GIFs).
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  But what are you going to do when someone else uses an emoji in a way that changes the meaning of what they wrote? You don't have to like them, but to me, using a computer that can't display emojis would be kind of like using a computer that can't display the simicolon character.
  - avidphantasm 1y ago
    No important messages are conveyed to me that have emojis in them.
fcpguru 1y ago
why intel? i never want to use a intel mac again
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  Well, if your goal is to get away from modern macOS, your options are Intel or PowerPC...
  - memsom 1y ago
    PowerPC you have Leopard or Tiger, the latter being "faster" but more limited. You can also install the version of Leopard someone added Snow Leopard beta parts to, which I do have on my PPC MacMini, but it still gives you limited returns. With PowerPC you might be better looking at a third party. I hear good things about MorphOS, though never tried it. You could do Linux too.
reactordev 1y ago
You know, there comes a journey in every developers life where all roads lead to hackintosh. It’s like a right of passage. I did it back during the Snow Leopard years with NForce motherboards (wrote some kernel extensions). Now, it’s just out of nostalgia.
- bazmattaz 1y ago
  I have fond memories of my Hackintosh years. Over time the frustration of updating to the latest OS and having to deal with breaking changes just sucked all the joy from it. Especially when I really needed to use the computer for something. I might tinker again some time soon. I had thought of building a Mac mini for a home theatre setup but then again Apple TV just works so well
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    I hackintoshed a few times over the years too. It could be frustrating at times, but when you had a solid setup that updated cleanly and everything it felt like a cheat code. Just as stable as a real Mac, but more capable, quiet, and expandable. One of the laptops I hacked for a while had a 15.4” 1920x1200 screen panel (much nicer than on contemporary 15” MacBooks), 4 USB-A ports, FireWire, Ethernet, an eSATA port, a full size DisplayPort, EC and PCMCIA slots, and an SD card reader and could dock to more than double the number of ports, plus two hot swap drive bays, and it all worked as expected under hackintoshed Mavericks which was incredible. It was like having a portable Mac Pro.
    - reactordev 1y ago
      if I were a bitcoin whale... OpenBSD on the Desktop can be a thing if someone were just to make a good experience with it, from the ground up, like Steve Jobs did with NeXT. Just don't choose Objective-C. The issue is money. Developers are expensive, AI isn't anywhere near ready for this task, and we have a lot of learnings from good UI design and developer patterns (both pro, and anti). ElementaryOS was supposed to be that thing but quickly devolved into yet another distro. These older machines deserve some love too. Not everything needs to be <2 years old. Not everything needs to be shiny. This is why you're broke. Stop spending :D
cosmic_cheese 1y ago
I have a soft spot for Mavericks too. It’s not 100% perfect (as post notes, scroll bars have been flattened and by then sidebar item icons had lost their color), but otherwise visually its probably the closest thing possible to “perfect” Aqua era OS X. It feels very refined in several ways that the earlier versions didn’t. In my opinion the runner-up in terms of visuals is actually 10.4 Tiger, though — the dark grays ubiquitous throughout 10.5 and 10.6 have always felt kinda dingy and depressing in a similar manner to the dark gray Windows 95/98 (which, as an aside, is why I find the Windows 2000 variant of that look preferable, with its base gray being lighter and more cheery). That said I miss the 2D grid that 10.5 and 10.6 used for virtual desktops even today… the simplified 1D linear virtual desktops that’ve been in place since 10.7 feels needlessly watered down. Funny enough that version of OS X can also run what to this day I’ve found to be the best implementation of a Quake terminal anywhere, in the form of the haxie Visor/TotalTerminal which added this functionality to the Apple terminal. The way it handled window focus and everything was so smooth and better than iTerm’s as well as any of the Linux dropdown terminals I’ve used. On the note of Linux, I wish that there were Linux DEs that went the extra mile to produce a true OS X 10.4-10.9 analogue, but no such thing exists. The closest is elementary/Pantheon which is stylistically in the same ballpark but shares too much of its design roots with GNOME’s oversimplified iPadOS-like design. Everything else in the Linux world is Windows-type desktops or minimal WMs, both with flat UI themes.
- linguae 1y ago
  On the BSD side there has been efforts such as helloSystem (https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/) and rayvnOS (https://ravynos.com/ https://ravynos.com/) that aim to provide a FOSS recreation of the Jobs-era Mac OS X experience. Both can be considered BSDs as opposed to mere desktop environments. helloSystem uses X11 and Qt, while rayvnOS uses its own version of Cocoa. However, it’s been a few years since I’ve seriously investigated these projects, and a cursory glance at them shows that they still have a while to go before they become replacements for existing desktop Linux environments. Both are rather ambitious passion projects from their creators, similar to Haiku, a re-creation of BeOS.
  - 1y ago
jasonvorhe 1y ago
I mean, yeah, sure, you can run this. I wouldn't trust my personal data to such an old OS if it ever got connected to the internet and the system will slowly disintegrate while you're using it so I'd rather adapt to something like Omarchy on a modern Linux system instead but if this is bringing joy to some people, more power to them.
smm11 1y ago
I so want to set this up on a 2016/17 Macbook Pro, but I have near zero drive space left just from the system itself.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  Your Macbook Pro is too new anyway. :( You need a Mac released between October 2008 and September 2014.
mdaniel 1y ago
> Cylindrical "Trash Can" Mac Pro My favorite Mac, by far. I upgraded the RAM in it. Can you even imagine a Mac that has upgradeable RAM? Pearl clutching. I also tried plugging 4 different 4K monitors into it just for the novelty. I miss my trashcan Also, if you were to serve your get.sh (et al) as text/plain it would enable browing them versus them downloading and having to open it locally. Or, as your footer implied, linking to GitHub would also be super handy
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  > Also, if you were to serve your get.sh (et al) as text/plain it would enable browing them versus them downloading and having to open it locally. Thanks, I'll look into this! I'm not immediately sure how to do it. The site is hosted via a very minimal Cloudflare worker, because it's free for static assets but unlike e.g. Github pages supports unencrypted http (which is useful when bootstrapping a new Mavericks system). I haven't changed the content type of anything. My Github is https://github.com/wowfunhappy https://github.com/wowfunhappy but you actually won't find either script there, the website is the canonical version! This type of thing is why my github isn't linked!
  - mdaniel 1y ago
    https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/static-assets/headers/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/static-assets/head... alleges it honors the c-type of the asset when it was uploaded, just like S3
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      Thanks--I think I fixed it!
- philwelch 1y ago
  > Can you even imagine a Mac that has upgradeable RAM? Well now I feel old. Not only can I imagine it, I used to routinely buy RAM upgrades for my Macs because it was more affordable than getting a Mac with more RAM in the first place. As I recall one of the early aluminum PowerBooks even had a really thoughtful design that made it easy to access and replace the RAM, battery, and hard drive.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
> There is no modern mainstream browser engine that works in Snow Leopard. Sadly this too will be true in Mavericks soon enough. If you decide to web browse on a separate machine though, you can still have your Mavericks machine be your main one.
- carlosjobim 1y ago
  Aren't there old versions of those browsers?
  - dardeaup 1y ago
    Sure there are but running older browsers is a security risk. The older it is the more vulnerable it is.
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      Exactly, and just to add: browsers are where I draw the line in terms of security. If the OS is old, whatever, my router has a firewall and I trust the applications I install. But my browser is running gobs of random Javascript from who knows where every day! I guess you could do the thing where you disable Javascript by default and re-enable it on select websites; I'm personally not willing to do that. So a browser really needs a good, up-to-date sandbox. There has to be protection somewhere in the chain.
      - wila 1y ago
        If you can't run a recent browser anymore then there's always the option to run the browser in a VM.
    - JKCalhoun 1y ago
      And some sites refuse to load if your browser is too old. I think Google was like that — requiring a newer browser to access, for example, your Google drive.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
os2warpman 1y ago
My favorite thing about MacOS is how it has never changed how it changes. It's like the game Civilization. Every new version is worse than the last. Every new version is more bloated. Every new version has changes that ruin it. Every new version is "less snappy". Every new version ruins everything. Not even with OS X, we're talking back to the System 6 days, almost 40 years ago, it has always been the same. System 6 uses too much RAM I'm staying with System 5. System 7 is bloated I'm staying with System 6. System 8 is a disaster I'm staying with System 9. System 9 is a buggy mess I'm staying with System 8. System, err, OS X v10.0 has no apps I'm staying with System 9. And then oh boy the OS X/macOS versions! Every generation gets so much worse, buggier, and "less snappy" than the last that surely our computers must be traveling backwards through time by now! Every Civ game past III, the one I spent the most time playing during college and am most used to and like the most for totally not arbitrary reasons, has just been the worst, amirite?
- WillAdams 1y ago
  One notable standout here was 10.6 which was simply 10.5 recompiled for native Intel and dropping PowerPC support --- that said, for early 10.x each version consistently became more performant up through 10.5, it's just that 10.6 was the version where that was the _raison d'être_.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - frumplestlatz 1y ago
    10.6 was absolutely not 10.5 recompiled. It was entirely a reliability and bug fix release on top of 10.5.
    - WillAdams 1y ago
      Poor choice of word on my part/missing "re-written" and that it was reliability/bug fixes/removing PPC stuff was what I was trying to convey.
Johnny555 1y ago
>Today, it an inherently vulnerable operating system, and you will need to be a bit careful. Regularly back up your data to cold storage, never use an outdated web browser, and always keep your router's firmware up-to-date. If my computer is hacked, I'm not really worried about my data being destroyed, I have offline backups for that. The bigger danger is having my data exfiltrated, I don't want my tax return or password manager database to be exfiltrated from my computer.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  How are they decrypting your password manager database? Sure they'll get your tax returns, but while I'm not saying that's great, didn't they get most of it from Equifax anyway? My personal "thread model" is basically to make sure I can survive an automated attack. I'm convinced I can with my current Mavericks setup. If an experienced attacker was targeting me specifically, I'm sure Mavericks would make their life easier, but I also think they'd probably succeed no matter what OS I was running. https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ But I do have my Bitwarden vault set to use 2,000,000 KDF iterations, literally the highest it will go...
dingosity 1y ago
There was a joke bumper-sticker in the valley back in the day that said "Windows 95 == Macintosh 89". But the critique of this was "Macintosh 95 == Macintosh 89". In the same way, "NeXTStep 89 == MacOS X 2001 == MacOS X 2015 == MacOS X 2025" except that they hadn't steved everyone from the user experience research group in 2001 and there were vestiges of #a11y features left in Yosemite. Complaining your current version of MacOS X has a worse user experience than it did 10 years ago is like buying a Tesla and then complaining about its resale value.
SnuffBox 1y ago
> Web Browsers. There is no modern mainstream browser engine that works in Snow Leopard. You don't need one. You can either use RDP to a Windows Server running on a lightweight Mini PC (like I do) or use VMWare Fusion in unified mode to have a modern Chrome version seamlessly integrated into your desktop experience.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  VMWare Fusion in unified mode is an option I may explore if Firefox Dynasty stops being maintained, but I know the integration wouldn't be seamless enough to satisfy me. Especially given that my web browser is the most used app on my machine, it kind of defeats the purpose of using Mavericks in the first place. Are you daily driving Snow Leopard? I'd be interested to hear about the experience, if you have anything in particular to share.
  - SnuffBox 1y ago
    I've sent you an E-Mail.
WillAdams 1y ago
I wish all of this angst could be bottled up and used to create a simply workable version of GNUstep --- ideally targeting something easy to configure hardware-wise like a Raspberry Pi 5.
- lproven 1y ago
  I agree. It's not really what you're asking, but I know of two Linux desktops that are based around GNUSTEP. NEXTSPACE: https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace -- primarily targets CentOS GSDE: https://onflapp.github.io/gs-desktop/index.html https://onflapp.github.io/gs-desktop/index.html -- primarily targets Debian
xp84 1y ago
> Removing stock apps from the Applications folder is completely safe—nothing will break—and this is your computer, so you should make it your own This is the part that hits home the most for me. I get the benefits of the hardened pc-as-appliance that Apple has shoved down all our throats as "for our own good" but using a modern Mac compared to even Mavericks, or Windows XP, feels to me like if someone came into my house and confined me to a coat closet which they've padded and sealed off. This isn't my house anymore, someone else controls everything and only they can give me permission (revocable at any time) to do literally anything. They promise me that I'll never hit my head now, but I never had that problem in the first place.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  Echoes of an article posted here [1] some time ago called I Don’t Like Computers which had the same nostalgic vibe about computing in the past. This is exactly how modern OS's and devices make me feel. The Personal Computer used to be PERSONAL. The User was in control. We used to be in the driver’s seat. We used to tell computers what to do. Now we feel like passengers, and the computer is telling us what it's going to do and hedging us into a few small scraps of functionality it deems safe for us. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30851371 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30851371
sillywalk 1y ago
> For some inexplicable reason, Apple's website does not offer a Mavericks download link. Their official list skips straight from Mountain Lion (10.8) to Yosemite (10.10). Does anybody have an idea why Mavericks isn't available from Apple? https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662#browser https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662#browser
- selectodude 1y ago
  Mavericks wasn’t the end of the line for any Macs. Every device that is supported in Mavericks is supported in Yosemite. Apple only makes the latest version available for any given device.
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    But then why does Apple offer a download for Mountain Lion? Every device that was supported in Mountain Lion was supported in Mavericks (and Yosemite by extension).
    - ghoulishly 1y ago
      Might have to do with it being the last OS available for purchase (i.e. not a free download) It’s a shot in the dark though, I’ve also wondered this.
grishka 1y ago
I stayed on Mavericks until late 2016, by which time I had to update to then-current system because I got a new job and needed latest Xcode to compile the iOS app. Surprisingly, I didn't hate the flatter design as much as I anticipated. But of course I still miss skeuomorphism. The worst transition for me was Big Sur (or, more precisely, Mojave -> Monterey when I bought a new MacBook in 2021). The useless margins, the unification of title bars and toolbars that no one asked for, the borderless buttons (I enabled "show borders" in accessibility settings), SF Symbols (no pixel grid alignment whatsoever), and the redesigned alerts, are the worst. From what I've seen of Tahoe, it makes it even worse, both with the touchscreenification and with the wasted screen area.
- linguae 1y ago
  I agree; I don’t like the iOSification of the UI/UX, and I also don’t like the increased locked-down nature of macOS, such as having to go through a nag screen whenever I use lldb. I still prefer Macs over Windows for work-issued hardware, but for my personal equipment, I never upgraded beyond Mojave. When combined with the lack of user-serviceability on the latest Macs, I switched back to PCs a few years ago after nearly 15 years on Macs. I have a Ryzen 9 desktop and a Framework 13 laptop. I begrudgingly use Windows 10/11; I would’ve moved to desktop Linux if it weren’t for some proprietary software I need that doesn’t run on Linux. I still have my “trash can” Mac Pro on the rare occasion I need a Mac-only app.
  - grishka 1y ago
    In my opinion both Windows and Linux are much worse than even modern macOS, so I'm going to keep using it for the foreseeable future, but being rather conservative with installing updates. On hardware, my M1 Max MacBook Pro is the best laptop I've ever owned, period.
sgt 1y ago
(Relative) older time who got started with FreeBSD and Linux in the mid 90s here. While I loved Mavericks (and I went through all the versions of OS X since Jaguar to macOS Sonoma), I have to say that in my opinion it just keeps getting better. Yes, a few restrictions came along but nothing that keeps me as a system developer from being productive. The Apple SDK's, CLI tools, compilers and libraries available are world class, and I still got my Unix prompt, while having a snappy UI. Don't get me started on Apple Silicon; now I never have to wait for anything. I'm still on Sonoma though, but it's because I take so long to upgrade. It's best practice to wait a few months with new releases of macOS. I've used that strategy for 20 years and it hasn't failed me once.
rbanffy 1y ago
Running a popular OS with no security updates for the past 9 years sounds downright insane. I really liked IRIX and will always have a soft spot for Sun's OpenWindows on Solaris, but there is no way in hell I'd use either as a daily driver these days, and I can almost bet either have fewer actively exploited vulnerabilities than Mavericks.
dangus 1y ago
So much work to not switch to Linux. And seriously, it is the year of the Linux desktop. I’m shocked at how much “just works” like a Mac. I feel like I have a system that’s more compatible with commercial software than a Mac (thanks Steam/Proton).
- illwrks 1y ago
  I use Macs for my day job, but personally I switched to Ubuntu (and Windows 11 when I have no choice). I have two older Mac's but they are fit for recycling now.
  - dangus 1y ago
    I made the leap due to Mac hardware cost and after seeing the Liquid Metal debacle. I also left iCloud Photos after Apple botched the UI. I also got tired of jumping through hoops that didn’t really work most of the time to play games on Mac (e.g., Crossover). But really, my Mac was an M1 system so I figured that even if I hated my Linux laptop I could just bail on it and get myself an M4 system as a nice upgrade. I was having issues with storage space and of course Macs aren’t upgradable so I have to sell my system and buy a new one to resolve that. I’m very happy with my decision. I run Bazzite with KDE and I’m very happy with the distro.
nailer 1y ago
> Each update seemed to chip away at something I liked about the platform. I have a MBP, 48GB RAM running today's stable version of macOS Sequoia 15.6.1 If I do cmd+space and type something it has 0 results for anything in my Documents folder. It's been that way for momnths despite all the OS updates. macOS used to be good.
- illwrks 1y ago
  Have you inadvertently set the search privacy on your drive? https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl1bb43b84/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl1bb43b84/... If that's not the issue try rebuilding your Spotlight search index: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102321 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102321
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    No, Spotlight has just been broken for several years. Thankfully Tahoe seems to have improved it a bit for me.
  - nailer 1y ago
    Thanks, I wasn't looking for technical support. I did spend some time figuring this out (it was 'sudo mdutil -E /' that fixed it) but my point was: The experience of using macOS, which I pay a large amount of money for, wasn't better than a Linux distribution.
franky47 1y ago
> never use an outdated web browser That part is not going to age well, as browser vendor push updates they tend to drop support for older OS versions.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  Upstream Firefox and Chromium dropped Mavericks ages ago. That's not what I'm using. https://github.com/i3roly/firefox-dynasty/releases https://github.com/i3roly/firefox-dynasty/releases Fully up to date port of Firefox to legacy OS X.
jeffrallen 1y ago
Oh my god, I am so jealous of this guy. Please just make it stop, I want off this crazy upgrade merry-go-round.
zer0zzz 1y ago
I do kinda wonder if we could use these sorts of outdated setups with no internet connection offline for more things
mtillman 1y ago
Love this and might downgrade (upgrade?)from Mojave which is when I stopped upgrading the Mac OS. Apple was still a computer company before Mojave instead of a bank wrapped in an ad network. Or is it an ad network wrapped in a bank? I can’t tell but their new Operating Systems are hot garbage since the old BSD guy left for truenas.
SlowTao 1y ago
So you know how there are different religious factions that broadly have very similar views but they practically go to war due to the variance of small details... screw mavericks, OSX 10.4 Tiger FOREVER!!!!
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  Hey, Tiger is cool, you won't get any shade from me! I would find it extremely difficult to use as a daily driver though, much moreso than Mavericks. I do try to support other old versions of OS X where possible. Aqua Proxy supports Snow Leopard for example, which took some effort. (I wish it could support Tiger too but there's no way to build Go binaries for Tiger.)
  - zapzupnz 1y ago
    Not even by compiling Go to WASM, then transpiling WASM to C++, then building the resulting C++ with Tiger's GCC?
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      ...do you think that could actually work? I can't entirely tell if you're joking or not, it's true I never considered this... does WASM code have the network access that would be required for a proxy?
      - piperswe 1y ago
        Looks like there is a project to transpile WASM w/ WASI APIs to portable C: https://github.com/turbolent/w2c2 https://github.com/turbolent/w2c2 Sadly it doesn't seem to support the networking parts of WASI, though. If it did, then it might even be possible to port all the way back to Cheetah
        zapzupnz 1y ago
        Yep, that's the one I was thinking of. Still, I wonder if the platform's networking could just be added in ex-post facto (disclaimer: never actually touched this, just looked at it)
Lammy 1y ago
> Remove apps and features which don't work anymore, and would just make me sad if I saw them. sudo rm -rf /Library/Widgets/Weather.wdgt Some of these could be fixed if you find a replacement API. Try this modded Weather widget for example: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/weather-dashboard-widget-darksky-mod https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/weather-dashboard-widget-da... And check out Download #2 (`Working_Widgets.zip`) here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/widget-collection-2005-macworld https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/widget-collection-2005-macw...
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  I'm actually the author of those fixed widgets! They are on the website in the app library. (Even though they aren't "apps"... I originally wanted to make a separate page for non-app Mavericks software but it felt weird.) The idea is, remove the nonworking ones to start out since they're broken, and then you can install the working copies.
  - Lammy 1y ago
    wow that will teach me to read usernames lol Thank you!
osigurdson 1y ago
>> having the perfect computer, For me, that is a browser and a terminal. Arch is pretty awesome these days for that use case.
immy 1y ago
Wow. Nice hacking.
JZerf 1y ago
I also like the aesthetics of OS X versions prior to 10.10. It is hard to find programs that still support older versions though. To make things easier I'm using the more modern macOS 10.14 but installed a few things to make it look more like 10.9. The file and instructions in https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mavericks-window-control-buttons-for-mojave.2162605/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mavericks-window-contro... change many of the UI elements to look like those in 10.9. Menu Bar Tint (https://manytricks.com/menubartint/ https://manytricks.com/menubartint/) can make the menubar look like the one in 10.9. macOSLucidaGrande (https://github.com/LumingYin/macOSLucidaGrande https://github.com/LumingYin/macOSLucidaGrande) can change the system font back to Lucida Grande like 10.9 used. One annoyance with this though is that the '*' character won't show up in password input fields.
memsom 1y ago
I have a Mac Pro 1,1 and trying this might actually be kind of cool and give it more life. It is pretty limited otherwise and the 3,1 it sits next to is way more practical.
Razengan 1y ago
> I came to a decision. It was time to leave modern macOS behind. It was the opposite for me: I decided to leave Windows behind after a mounting cascade of frustration and disappointment with Microsoft and Their Way of Doing Things. Fast forward to Now: I'm still happy on macOS Tahoe. Apple does some dumb annoying shit too but it hasn't yet gotten to the point where I give up computing altogether and retire to a Tibetan monastery. Or switch to Linux. Whenever I get to look at the current state of Windows it has nothing that makes me want to go back. Sure, like an ex it still has a few things that you wish you could still enjoy, like a few games, but then you remember why you left them in the first place. Some of the things that irk me the most about macOS: • The dumbness or complete lack of documentation about some specific things, specially on the developer side. • Some features touted as hot and sexy during a new release's PR wave and then rotting in a half-baked state. • Some minor bugs remaining unfixed for years. • Most improvements being tied to a major version cycle, even if they could easily be shipped in a minor monthly/quarterly update.
stevenfoster 1y ago
In process of ditching everything Apple by the end of the year. Going all in on Linux. There's trade offs, nothings perfect, but I don't need a big desperate corporation trying to upsell me on cloud storage and AI.
- canadaduane 1y ago
  One of the best parts, IMO, is the feeling that comes from contributing something to the community that will last--possibly for decades or centuries. To me, using Linux is an experience of gratitude.
oinj 1y ago
Big fan of your OS X stuff! I still have a 11" 2012 MacBook Air with Core i7 and 8 GB RAM, if only I could use it as my everyday machine I'd be very happy! I didn't know about Firefox Dynasty, it's very cool. (Wow, and Archive Plus and Preview Plus… you're killing it!) What's your experience with those shady USB-C to Magsafe 2 cables/adapters? Old MacBook batteries are bound to deplete faster and faster every year, it'd be nice to be able to charge using what's most common nowadays.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  Thank you! > What's your experience with those shady USB-C to Magsafe 2 cables/adapters? I don't have experience--I would probably try to get a real one. I'm also a big proponent of getting batteries replaced. I know this all costs money, but if you like and are using this computer, make it nice!
  - oinj 1y ago
    I've got this idea that third-party batteries are mostly crap and die very fast, but it's based on ≈10 year old experience (although the last official battery on my iPhone SE 2016 was the same)
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      I had the battery in my 2014 Macbook Air replaced by a ubreakifix in Chelsea (New York City) around two years ago, and it's still going strong.
- krackers 1y ago
  I wouldn't trust the adapters. Maybe in theory it's possible to do it right, bridge PD negotiation to a 1-wire protocol negotiation but you've got to trust that they handled both the usb-c part correctly and the 1-wire part correctly. There's not much rigorous testing I could find online, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6pPDys-s0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6pPDys-s0 tested a few and found that some spark when first connected, which implies they're not doing the 1-wire negotiation properly (real adapters will prevent arcing by sensing if it's connected first before increasing voltage)
shortformblog 1y ago
I like the spirit of this, but I just think Mavericks is a bizarre break point for this type of approach. At least hit Yosemite so you can benefit from NVMe. For me, Mojave feels like the neatest break point, but if you’re rocking Nvidia, there’s also a case for High Sierra.
- mattnewton 1y ago
  I think Yosemite was out because of the flat design, the author wanted aqua specifically.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
manoDev 1y ago
That was the golden era of Mac. The OS was fast, and Apple software didn’t suck (I still miss Aperture).
nightski 1y ago
Having switched from an x86 laptop to a macbook recently, macos is serviceable but overall terrible. I just want to install Linux at this point so bad. I wish Apple would officially support Asahi Linux. It would cost them nothing in the grand scheme of things.
pentagrama 1y ago
I was curious about how the OS looks like, here is a demo https://youtu.be/lccQ5WhcKko https://youtu.be/lccQ5WhcKko
rurban 1y ago
I preferred Snow Leopard, 10.6 over all others. With Lion the downfall started. And it cracked with the doomed butterfly keyboards, that's when I gave up and switched back to ThinkPads with Fedora. Battery life was nice, but I am not wandering around that much anymore. Those days I did work in the pool with an air.
leakycap 1y ago
Reading "Why Mavericks" made me glad not to be alone in noticing the slow progression toward a general lack of usability in macOS. For me, it started with 10.7 when a lot of things changed just to look different. From then forward, user habits were seemingly not considered and everything moved here and there on a yearly basis. At least with Windows, the major overhauls to Explorer come so slowly that your productivity routines don't get sand in the cogs every year when you update and Apple's OS shifts extremely key parts of the window UI around and makes the hit points even smaller over time. The killer for me is how difficult it is to fix things if you don't like them. Modern macOS has horrendous mouse speed handling, and changing this beyond Apple's very limited settings is a pain. And even then, Windows and Linux and older OS X handled the cursor movement better. I like(d) so much about Apple over the years, but it is clear they're an iPhone company that makes laptops and desktops... not the other way around.

402 points by Wowfunhappy 1y ago

Can you touch on how some of these patches were made/backported from and to closed-source binaries? Which underlying proxy is Aqua Proxy built on?

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
> Which underlying proxy is Aqua Proxy built on? Aqua Proxy's source code is here: https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/AquaProxy/tree/master https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/AquaProxy/tree/master. It mostly leverages the Go standard library. One thing I really like is that it won't MITM any requests that use TLS 1.3 or HTTP2. Since Mavericks doesn't support these protocols natively, the proxy knows this traffic must be coming from a relatively-modern app that ships its own TLS implementation and doesn't need any help. > Can you touch on how some of these patches were made/backported from and to closed-source binaries? The Mail plugin just disables a feature via Objective-C swizzling. Swizzling is fun, you can replace any method in any app with your own version. I usually use class-dump to get a list of methods in the original app, read the method names to guess at what each one does, and try the ones that look promising. More recently I've begun using Hopper (a proper decompiler/disassembler) more heavily, particularly because Claude is very good at reading both assembly and decompiler babble and can direct me. The font patch is just a hex edit. To quote the readme: >> The patch removes the `fnt_adjust` TrueType instruction from Apple's font rendering code. This instruction has not been used by legitimate fonts since the 90s. After CVE-2023-41990 was published, Apple responded by removing this instruction from modern macOS. This patch merely does the same on Mavericks. The patched library replaces the vulnerable instruction with a no-op.
- bangonkeyboard 1y ago
  Thanks.

brudgers 1y ago

It is an interesting article, but not really a Show HN because there is nothing I can play with or try out...unless you ship me an old compatible Mac... my email is in my profile :

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
...I'll admit I wasn't entirely sure if this could be a Show HN or not, I might have chosen wrong! However, the guide includes a ton of software I made, which can absolutely be tried out—Aqua Proxy, updated QuickTime components, SIMBL plugins, etc—by anyone with compatible hardware. I'm sorry you don't have the right hardware. :( You could use a virtual machine but there's really no point. But I don't think this in itself should disqualify a Show HN submission, right? Otherwise, the only thing people could submit would be webapps!
- k_badcommand 1y ago
  I found this useful, appropriate section or not- thanks for sharing
- brudgers 1y ago
  I was wrong and did not read the fine print on the downloads. Sorry.

Ezhik 1y ago

Oh man, I actually used this guide when putting Mavericks on my old Mac! So damn nice. The UI is still so fresh. Neat that there's Firefox for it now. Last I tried it, I had to do Chromium-legacy, though I wouldn't exactly want to take an old unpatched machine online very often.

k_badcommand 1y ago

You are a madlad! Also, I have an iMac 2013 that might benefit from this so thank you kindly!

stuaxo 1y ago

This is nice, I wish there was way to bring the old Rosetta over, though I guess it probably needs something like all/some parts of the OS to be compiled as fat binaries to work,

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
You'd need to compile a custom kernel, but it might it be possible. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rosetta-on-10-7-and-above-what-has-been-tried.2333940/post-30837567 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rosetta-on-10-7-and-abo... > 10.6 xnu does have special support for rosetta, namely in kern_exec where it seems to set some special ppc environment bits if the oah binary is invoked (and of course there's the handler to call the oah binary for a ppc mach-o, but the former is more important for minimal viable example since you can always invoke oah manually). I think this bit is actually needed because the kernel has other codepath here when allocating memory. (Not 100% confident though, bit it makes sense there are different conventions about base address, region sizes, etc.) > Likely might need changes to dyld also for obvious reasons, but that's open source as well https://opensource.apple.com/source/dyld/dyld-132.13/src/dyld.cpp https://opensource.apple.com/source/dyld/dyld-132.13/src/dyl... > Would be easiest to try getting a plain assembly hello world ppc binary working first. I see that someone on your linked thread tried copying translate binary but it crashed even without args; tracing in lldb would be the logical next step but seems he never followed up on that... > Another thing which I'm not sure of is whether rosetta relies on existence of ppc-arch system frameworks; I'd assume not since they'd want to do high-level thunking here for performance, but maybe that only ends up being done in some cases? I couldn't find any docs on reverse engineering rosetta1m or if they exist they've disappeared. A possible counterpoint to the last paragraph would be, if Rosetta doesn't need those system frameworks why are so many libraries in Snow Leopard compiled as intel-ppc universal binaries? If those actually get used, a port would be much more difficult.
- saagarjha 1y ago
  Trying to get this to work three OSes later seems kind of hard.

stuaxo 1y ago

This is tempting to stick on my 2012 Mac Mini. The newer version of MacOS on it, has become basically useless. Windows 10 on it, has been handy for when I want to watch Apple TV, or use Channel 4 (who still don't generically support their app on Android which my TV runs). But now Windows won't update to 11. So maybe time to move from Windows to Linux and downgrade the MacOS.

brewmarche 1y ago

The MacBook Air mentioned (2014) will install Mavericks when booted into recovery mode anyway (unless you use Option-Command-R which will give you the newest compatible version which is Big Sur). I did that a few days ago and I agree, it’s quite snappy! Missing certificates can also be installed manually (e.g. from the curl CA bundle), but even then TLS 1.3 support is lacking in most apps which breaks a lot of stuff without the suggested proxy. A lot of MacPorts ports also do not build sadly. The look is so much better than current macOS.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
> The MacBook Air mentioned (2014) will install Mavericks when booted into recovery mode anyway (unless you use Option-Command-R which will give you the newest compatible version which is Big Sur). Certain 2014 Macbook Airs, including my own, will install Yosemite instead in recovery mode for some reason, even though obviously I'm using Mavericks and it runs fine.
- brewmarche 1y ago
  I think it depends on what was the current version when your model came out. Should have said mid-2014 like OP, sorry
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    > Should have said mid-2014 like OP, sorry I don't want to belabor the point, but just to be clear—I am referring to a mid-2014 MBA, anything newer and Mavericks wouldn't work! (There is no "late 2014" MBA as far as I'm aware.) Mine offers to install Yosemite in recovery mode. It may indeed be based on when that specific computer came off of the assembly line or something, I have no idea, but for that exact model of computer you can get different results in recovery mode!
    - brewmarche 1y ago
      Good to know. Mine is from June 2014 (assembly, since it’s a custom configuration). Sorry for missing your point.

Amorymeltzer 1y ago

In terms of the "Why Mavericks?" section, >I knew I wanted an operating system from before Apple abandoned the Aqua design language. I suppose it depends on your definition, but that likely does mean Mavericks is the latest available. For my money though, El Capitan (10.11 to Mavericks' 10.9) was the local maxima (speed, stability, capability). I've no inkling what issues using that would entail—I had no idea that Mountain Lion had "a more capable version of QuickTime"—but my immediate response to this was wondering why not El Capitan.

delta_p_delta_x 1y ago
Strictly speaking, Mavericks (and Mountain Lion and Lion before it) were already some way through abandoning Aqua. Lion dropped the beautiful blue scroll bars that previous OS Xs had, replaced the pill-shaped buttons with rounded rectangles, and somewhat flattened the overall UI as well, though not to the extent that Yosemite did.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  But even as a fan of Aqua, I think it's nice that some of these elements got toned down just a bit. Really, you could view most of the design changes from OS X 10.0 onwards as Apple slowly toning down Aqua; the original Cheetah looks kind of gaudy IMO, the interface elements draw too much attention to themselves. I do miss Snow Leopard's scroll bars though, as I explicitly call out on the website!
terhechte 1y ago
You needed to own a "QuickTime Pro" license in order to enable these features. I used to do all my simple video editing with it until they shelved it.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  You're thinking of QuickTime 7, that can be optionally installed (as a separate app) even on macOS 10.14 Mojave! But the website is referring to versions of QuickTime X. QuickTime 10.2, which was included with Mountain Lion, was the last to support third-party components. (If you've ever used "Perian", that's what I'm referring to.)

wsc981 1y ago

I noticed the app section included VPN. Recently I've been looking for some VPN solution and found that many are quite expensive, though often you get a decent enough discount if you subscribe for like a year or longer. Also, I believe many services are probably not trustworthy (regardless of their claims). A very affordable alternative is a DigitalOcean droplet with PiHole. You can connect with this VPN with Wireguard, which will probably work just fine on Mavericks. Been using this now for a couple of months and no issues. My costs are probably around 3-4 USD per month, but I don't use VPN all the time.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
I haven't used WireGuard, but it looks like the main macOS implementation uses Go. Binaries built with Go 1.19 or below will work on Mavericks if you inject some compatibility libraries. (This is one of many things I haven't had time to fully document on the website yet, but I can help anyone who asks.) But the big problem with non-native VPNs on Mavericks (by which I mean, any VPN which requires installing additional software beyond what is built-in to the OS) is that they tend to bypass any HTTPS proxies you have set up. Without an HTTPS proxy, Mavericks will have trouble connecting to most servers because SecureTransport doesn't support modern cipher suites. In e.g. Firefox Dynasty this won't matter since it ships its own (modern) SSL implementation, but Apple Mail (for example) will be unable to load most remote images. This is why I have the note about privatevpn on the website—it took me a bit of searching to find a service that was low cost and supported a Mavericks native VPN protocol. I don't really "trust" any VPN service, but they're useful in certain specific situations.
- wsc981 1y ago
  Thanks for the explanation regarding Mavericks issues with third-party VPN software.

nutjob2 1y ago

This is way I feel, but my last stop is 10.15 (Catalina) having started with 3.2. Modern macOS is just trash. My goal over the longer term is to fully migrate to Android, especially desktop mode. There are several reasons for this but maybe the fact that given the typical hardware for Android means it's less likely suffer the terminal bloat of desktop systems.

memsom 1y ago
I stayed on Catalina for a long time as it was the last version my Macbook Pro 2012 supported natively. It is a pretty solid OS, though it is harder to get Apple services running on it now. I personally just use Sonoma now on my Macbook Pro M3 Pro.

moondev 1y ago

Was hoping this legendary gtk themer had a mavericks theme but Yosemite is the earliest it appears. https://github.com/vinceliuice/Yosemite-gtk-theme https://github.com/vinceliuice/Yosemite-gtk-theme If you want a macOS theme with insane quality on Linux this guy's work is the pinnacle.

kccqzy 1y ago
You call that insane quality? I took a five second look at the GitHub page and I already noticed that the spacing between the three traffic light buttons is wrong. It immediately felt off.
- moondev 1y ago
  The theme is actually correct, Apple is wrong
- h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
  Great! Go make a pull request, that's the power of open source.
  - kccqzy 1y ago
    I'm not about to dedicate any minute of my time when my first impression of a project is bad. It's like meeting new people: I'm not going to try to meet up with you again to find more common ground if my first impression of a person is bad.

NoSalt 1y ago

My exit from the Macintosh OS was in 2011 with the release of OS X 10.7 Lion; meaning the end of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. It was at that point when I realized that Apple was going more towards an "appliance" company than a computing company. They started making it more and more difficult to access the power of the Unix core. So I packed up my virtual bags and moved to Linux once and for all. I started with Mint (for about a minute), then went to Ubuntu, now I am at Debian (with the Xfce DE); probably forever.

felixding 1y ago

I can, and will, totally use this as my daily driver on my MBP 2013, if there is Tailscale and a up-to-date iTerm2. The UI is soooo much better than the current Mac OS.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
I'm afraid the newest compatible iTerm2 is 3.0.15 from 2017 [1]. It's open source so it might be possible to build a newer version to be compatible, or to cherry pick certain newer features. It's not an app I use though. 1: https://iterm2.com/downloads/beta/iTerm2-3_0_15.zip https://iterm2.com/downloads/beta/iTerm2-3_0_15.zip

latexr 1y ago

> Don't you love how hackable everything is? Removing stock apps from the Applications folder is completely safe—nothing will break—and this is your computer, so you should make it your own. You can always restore apps later using Time Machine. Just don't delete System Preferences, or anything in the Utilities folder. This was pretty funny. “You can do anything, and you should be able to do anything, nothing will break”, then in the same paragraph “but don’t do this specific thing”. Yes, there is immense value in being able to do whatever we want with our computers without restrictions. But let’s not pretend there isn’t value in being able to set restrictions too. Everything in computers is a tradeoff. Having an immutable signed OS has plenty of advantages, including for hackers: I feel much safer telling people to “just try stuff” when I know there isn’t a risk of them breaking everything and being left with an unbootable machine, leaving them feeling stupid and scared of trying anything else. More advanced tasks can come later. Kudos for the project in general, though, I’m not throwing shade. I too am discontent with Apple under Tim Cook, but staying on an older version of macOS isn’t an acceptable solution for my use cases, I’d sooner switch to a BSD.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
> This was pretty funny. “You can do anything, and you should be able to do anything, nothing will break”, then in the same paragraph “but don’t do this specific thing”. This is fair, but I will say, there's a reason I put this section after "Please enable Time Machine." ...you actually could get rid of System Preferences, if you really wanted to, and use the Terminal to set Preferences instead. The reason I called out System Preferences is because, growing up, my younger brother did delete System Preferences! He didn't have Time Machine, and this didn't come up until we were traveling and he couldn't connect to a new wifi network. So that was a little annoying. But I'm probably further making your point, and I do largely agree with you! The thing is, my computer is my home--I spend so much time there--and I just can't deal with having my home littered with Apple cruft.
Raed667 1y ago
running a funky chmod command recursively on my root dir and then learning how to fix it, probably taught me more about how linux works than any tutorial or article i've ever read. have fun! break things!

avidphantasm 1y ago

> The Unicode Consortium has introduced a lot of new emojis since Mavericks was released. We need to add them to Mavericks! No, we don’t. If I had infinite free time, I’d build a Linux distro that completely lacks support for emoji (and animated GIFs).

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
But what are you going to do when someone else uses an emoji in a way that changes the meaning of what they wrote? You don't have to like them, but to me, using a computer that can't display emojis would be kind of like using a computer that can't display the simicolon character.
- avidphantasm 1y ago
  No important messages are conveyed to me that have emojis in them.

fcpguru 1y ago

why intel? i never want to use a intel mac again

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
Well, if your goal is to get away from modern macOS, your options are Intel or PowerPC...
- memsom 1y ago
  PowerPC you have Leopard or Tiger, the latter being "faster" but more limited. You can also install the version of Leopard someone added Snow Leopard beta parts to, which I do have on my PPC MacMini, but it still gives you limited returns. With PowerPC you might be better looking at a third party. I hear good things about MorphOS, though never tried it. You could do Linux too.

reactordev 1y ago

You know, there comes a journey in every developers life where all roads lead to hackintosh. It’s like a right of passage. I did it back during the Snow Leopard years with NForce motherboards (wrote some kernel extensions). Now, it’s just out of nostalgia.

bazmattaz 1y ago
I have fond memories of my Hackintosh years. Over time the frustration of updating to the latest OS and having to deal with breaking changes just sucked all the joy from it. Especially when I really needed to use the computer for something. I might tinker again some time soon. I had thought of building a Mac mini for a home theatre setup but then again Apple TV just works so well
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  I hackintoshed a few times over the years too. It could be frustrating at times, but when you had a solid setup that updated cleanly and everything it felt like a cheat code. Just as stable as a real Mac, but more capable, quiet, and expandable. One of the laptops I hacked for a while had a 15.4” 1920x1200 screen panel (much nicer than on contemporary 15” MacBooks), 4 USB-A ports, FireWire, Ethernet, an eSATA port, a full size DisplayPort, EC and PCMCIA slots, and an SD card reader and could dock to more than double the number of ports, plus two hot swap drive bays, and it all worked as expected under hackintoshed Mavericks which was incredible. It was like having a portable Mac Pro.
  - reactordev 1y ago
    if I were a bitcoin whale... OpenBSD on the Desktop can be a thing if someone were just to make a good experience with it, from the ground up, like Steve Jobs did with NeXT. Just don't choose Objective-C. The issue is money. Developers are expensive, AI isn't anywhere near ready for this task, and we have a lot of learnings from good UI design and developer patterns (both pro, and anti). ElementaryOS was supposed to be that thing but quickly devolved into yet another distro. These older machines deserve some love too. Not everything needs to be <2 years old. Not everything needs to be shiny. This is why you're broke. Stop spending :D

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

I have a soft spot for Mavericks too. It’s not 100% perfect (as post notes, scroll bars have been flattened and by then sidebar item icons had lost their color), but otherwise visually its probably the closest thing possible to “perfect” Aqua era OS X. It feels very refined in several ways that the earlier versions didn’t. In my opinion the runner-up in terms of visuals is actually 10.4 Tiger, though — the dark grays ubiquitous throughout 10.5 and 10.6 have always felt kinda dingy and depressing in a similar manner to the dark gray Windows 95/98 (which, as an aside, is why I find the Windows 2000 variant of that look preferable, with its base gray being lighter and more cheery). That said I miss the 2D grid that 10.5 and 10.6 used for virtual desktops even today… the simplified 1D linear virtual desktops that’ve been in place since 10.7 feels needlessly watered down. Funny enough that version of OS X can also run what to this day I’ve found to be the best implementation of a Quake terminal anywhere, in the form of the haxie Visor/TotalTerminal which added this functionality to the Apple terminal. The way it handled window focus and everything was so smooth and better than iTerm’s as well as any of the Linux dropdown terminals I’ve used. On the note of Linux, I wish that there were Linux DEs that went the extra mile to produce a true OS X 10.4-10.9 analogue, but no such thing exists. The closest is elementary/Pantheon which is stylistically in the same ballpark but shares too much of its design roots with GNOME’s oversimplified iPadOS-like design. Everything else in the Linux world is Windows-type desktops or minimal WMs, both with flat UI themes.

linguae 1y ago
On the BSD side there has been efforts such as helloSystem (https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/) and rayvnOS (https://ravynos.com/ https://ravynos.com/) that aim to provide a FOSS recreation of the Jobs-era Mac OS X experience. Both can be considered BSDs as opposed to mere desktop environments. helloSystem uses X11 and Qt, while rayvnOS uses its own version of Cocoa. However, it’s been a few years since I’ve seriously investigated these projects, and a cursory glance at them shows that they still have a while to go before they become replacements for existing desktop Linux environments. Both are rather ambitious passion projects from their creators, similar to Haiku, a re-creation of BeOS.
- 1y ago

jasonvorhe 1y ago

I mean, yeah, sure, you can run this. I wouldn't trust my personal data to such an old OS if it ever got connected to the internet and the system will slowly disintegrate while you're using it so I'd rather adapt to something like Omarchy on a modern Linux system instead but if this is bringing joy to some people, more power to them.

smm11 1y ago

I so want to set this up on a 2016/17 Macbook Pro, but I have near zero drive space left just from the system itself.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
Your Macbook Pro is too new anyway. :( You need a Mac released between October 2008 and September 2014.

mdaniel 1y ago

> Cylindrical "Trash Can" Mac Pro My favorite Mac, by far. I upgraded the RAM in it. Can you even imagine a Mac that has upgradeable RAM? Pearl clutching. I also tried plugging 4 different 4K monitors into it just for the novelty. I miss my trashcan Also, if you were to serve your get.sh (et al) as text/plain it would enable browing them versus them downloading and having to open it locally. Or, as your footer implied, linking to GitHub would also be super handy

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
> Also, if you were to serve your get.sh (et al) as text/plain it would enable browing them versus them downloading and having to open it locally. Thanks, I'll look into this! I'm not immediately sure how to do it. The site is hosted via a very minimal Cloudflare worker, because it's free for static assets but unlike e.g. Github pages supports unencrypted http (which is useful when bootstrapping a new Mavericks system). I haven't changed the content type of anything. My Github is https://github.com/wowfunhappy https://github.com/wowfunhappy but you actually won't find either script there, the website is the canonical version! This type of thing is why my github isn't linked!
- mdaniel 1y ago
  https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/static-assets/headers/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/static-assets/head... alleges it honors the c-type of the asset when it was uploaded, just like S3
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    Thanks--I think I fixed it!
philwelch 1y ago
> Can you even imagine a Mac that has upgradeable RAM? Well now I feel old. Not only can I imagine it, I used to routinely buy RAM upgrades for my Macs because it was more affordable than getting a Mac with more RAM in the first place. As I recall one of the early aluminum PowerBooks even had a really thoughtful design that made it easy to access and replace the RAM, battery, and hard drive.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

> There is no modern mainstream browser engine that works in Snow Leopard. Sadly this too will be true in Mavericks soon enough. If you decide to web browse on a separate machine though, you can still have your Mavericks machine be your main one.

carlosjobim 1y ago
Aren't there old versions of those browsers?
- dardeaup 1y ago
  Sure there are but running older browsers is a security risk. The older it is the more vulnerable it is.
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    Exactly, and just to add: browsers are where I draw the line in terms of security. If the OS is old, whatever, my router has a firewall and I trust the applications I install. But my browser is running gobs of random Javascript from who knows where every day! I guess you could do the thing where you disable Javascript by default and re-enable it on select websites; I'm personally not willing to do that. So a browser really needs a good, up-to-date sandbox. There has to be protection somewhere in the chain.
    - wila 1y ago
      If you can't run a recent browser anymore then there's always the option to run the browser in a VM.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    And some sites refuse to load if your browser is too old. I think Google was like that — requiring a newer browser to access, for example, your Google drive.
Wowfunhappy 1y ago

os2warpman 1y ago

My favorite thing about MacOS is how it has never changed how it changes. It's like the game Civilization. Every new version is worse than the last. Every new version is more bloated. Every new version has changes that ruin it. Every new version is "less snappy". Every new version ruins everything. Not even with OS X, we're talking back to the System 6 days, almost 40 years ago, it has always been the same. System 6 uses too much RAM I'm staying with System 5. System 7 is bloated I'm staying with System 6. System 8 is a disaster I'm staying with System 9. System 9 is a buggy mess I'm staying with System 8. System, err, OS X v10.0 has no apps I'm staying with System 9. And then oh boy the OS X/macOS versions! Every generation gets so much worse, buggier, and "less snappy" than the last that surely our computers must be traveling backwards through time by now! Every Civ game past III, the one I spent the most time playing during college and am most used to and like the most for totally not arbitrary reasons, has just been the worst, amirite?

WillAdams 1y ago
One notable standout here was 10.6 which was simply 10.5 recompiled for native Intel and dropping PowerPC support --- that said, for early 10.x each version consistently became more performant up through 10.5, it's just that 10.6 was the version where that was the _raison d'être_.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- frumplestlatz 1y ago
  10.6 was absolutely not 10.5 recompiled. It was entirely a reliability and bug fix release on top of 10.5.
  - WillAdams 1y ago
    Poor choice of word on my part/missing "re-written" and that it was reliability/bug fixes/removing PPC stuff was what I was trying to convey.

Johnny555 1y ago

>Today, it an inherently vulnerable operating system, and you will need to be a bit careful. Regularly back up your data to cold storage, never use an outdated web browser, and always keep your router's firmware up-to-date. If my computer is hacked, I'm not really worried about my data being destroyed, I have offline backups for that. The bigger danger is having my data exfiltrated, I don't want my tax return or password manager database to be exfiltrated from my computer.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
How are they decrypting your password manager database? Sure they'll get your tax returns, but while I'm not saying that's great, didn't they get most of it from Equifax anyway? My personal "thread model" is basically to make sure I can survive an automated attack. I'm convinced I can with my current Mavericks setup. If an experienced attacker was targeting me specifically, I'm sure Mavericks would make their life easier, but I also think they'd probably succeed no matter what OS I was running. https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ But I do have my Bitwarden vault set to use 2,000,000 KDF iterations, literally the highest it will go...

dingosity 1y ago

There was a joke bumper-sticker in the valley back in the day that said "Windows 95 == Macintosh 89". But the critique of this was "Macintosh 95 == Macintosh 89". In the same way, "NeXTStep 89 == MacOS X 2001 == MacOS X 2015 == MacOS X 2025" except that they hadn't steved everyone from the user experience research group in 2001 and there were vestiges of #a11y features left in Yosemite. Complaining your current version of MacOS X has a worse user experience than it did 10 years ago is like buying a Tesla and then complaining about its resale value.

SnuffBox 1y ago

> Web Browsers. There is no modern mainstream browser engine that works in Snow Leopard. You don't need one. You can either use RDP to a Windows Server running on a lightweight Mini PC (like I do) or use VMWare Fusion in unified mode to have a modern Chrome version seamlessly integrated into your desktop experience.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
VMWare Fusion in unified mode is an option I may explore if Firefox Dynasty stops being maintained, but I know the integration wouldn't be seamless enough to satisfy me. Especially given that my web browser is the most used app on my machine, it kind of defeats the purpose of using Mavericks in the first place. Are you daily driving Snow Leopard? I'd be interested to hear about the experience, if you have anything in particular to share.
- SnuffBox 1y ago
  I've sent you an E-Mail.

WillAdams 1y ago

I wish all of this angst could be bottled up and used to create a simply workable version of GNUstep --- ideally targeting something easy to configure hardware-wise like a Raspberry Pi 5.

lproven 1y ago
I agree. It's not really what you're asking, but I know of two Linux desktops that are based around GNUSTEP. NEXTSPACE: https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace -- primarily targets CentOS GSDE: https://onflapp.github.io/gs-desktop/index.html https://onflapp.github.io/gs-desktop/index.html -- primarily targets Debian

xp84 1y ago

> Removing stock apps from the Applications folder is completely safe—nothing will break—and this is your computer, so you should make it your own This is the part that hits home the most for me. I get the benefits of the hardened pc-as-appliance that Apple has shoved down all our throats as "for our own good" but using a modern Mac compared to even Mavericks, or Windows XP, feels to me like if someone came into my house and confined me to a coat closet which they've padded and sealed off. This isn't my house anymore, someone else controls everything and only they can give me permission (revocable at any time) to do literally anything. They promise me that I'll never hit my head now, but I never had that problem in the first place.

ryandrake 1y ago
Echoes of an article posted here [1] some time ago called I Don’t Like Computers which had the same nostalgic vibe about computing in the past. This is exactly how modern OS's and devices make me feel. The Personal Computer used to be PERSONAL. The User was in control. We used to be in the driver’s seat. We used to tell computers what to do. Now we feel like passengers, and the computer is telling us what it's going to do and hedging us into a few small scraps of functionality it deems safe for us. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30851371 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30851371

sillywalk 1y ago

> For some inexplicable reason, Apple's website does not offer a Mavericks download link. Their official list skips straight from Mountain Lion (10.8) to Yosemite (10.10). Does anybody have an idea why Mavericks isn't available from Apple? https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662#browser https://support.apple.com/en-us/102662#browser

selectodude 1y ago
Mavericks wasn’t the end of the line for any Macs. Every device that is supported in Mavericks is supported in Yosemite. Apple only makes the latest version available for any given device.
- Wowfunhappy 1y ago
  But then why does Apple offer a download for Mountain Lion? Every device that was supported in Mountain Lion was supported in Mavericks (and Yosemite by extension).
  - ghoulishly 1y ago
    Might have to do with it being the last OS available for purchase (i.e. not a free download) It’s a shot in the dark though, I’ve also wondered this.

grishka 1y ago

I stayed on Mavericks until late 2016, by which time I had to update to then-current system because I got a new job and needed latest Xcode to compile the iOS app. Surprisingly, I didn't hate the flatter design as much as I anticipated. But of course I still miss skeuomorphism. The worst transition for me was Big Sur (or, more precisely, Mojave -> Monterey when I bought a new MacBook in 2021). The useless margins, the unification of title bars and toolbars that no one asked for, the borderless buttons (I enabled "show borders" in accessibility settings), SF Symbols (no pixel grid alignment whatsoever), and the redesigned alerts, are the worst. From what I've seen of Tahoe, it makes it even worse, both with the touchscreenification and with the wasted screen area.

linguae 1y ago
I agree; I don’t like the iOSification of the UI/UX, and I also don’t like the increased locked-down nature of macOS, such as having to go through a nag screen whenever I use lldb. I still prefer Macs over Windows for work-issued hardware, but for my personal equipment, I never upgraded beyond Mojave. When combined with the lack of user-serviceability on the latest Macs, I switched back to PCs a few years ago after nearly 15 years on Macs. I have a Ryzen 9 desktop and a Framework 13 laptop. I begrudgingly use Windows 10/11; I would’ve moved to desktop Linux if it weren’t for some proprietary software I need that doesn’t run on Linux. I still have my “trash can” Mac Pro on the rare occasion I need a Mac-only app.
- grishka 1y ago
  In my opinion both Windows and Linux are much worse than even modern macOS, so I'm going to keep using it for the foreseeable future, but being rather conservative with installing updates. On hardware, my M1 Max MacBook Pro is the best laptop I've ever owned, period.

sgt 1y ago

(Relative) older time who got started with FreeBSD and Linux in the mid 90s here. While I loved Mavericks (and I went through all the versions of OS X since Jaguar to macOS Sonoma), I have to say that in my opinion it just keeps getting better. Yes, a few restrictions came along but nothing that keeps me as a system developer from being productive. The Apple SDK's, CLI tools, compilers and libraries available are world class, and I still got my Unix prompt, while having a snappy UI. Don't get me started on Apple Silicon; now I never have to wait for anything. I'm still on Sonoma though, but it's because I take so long to upgrade. It's best practice to wait a few months with new releases of macOS. I've used that strategy for 20 years and it hasn't failed me once.

rbanffy 1y ago

Running a popular OS with no security updates for the past 9 years sounds downright insane. I really liked IRIX and will always have a soft spot for Sun's OpenWindows on Solaris, but there is no way in hell I'd use either as a daily driver these days, and I can almost bet either have fewer actively exploited vulnerabilities than Mavericks.

dangus 1y ago

So much work to not switch to Linux. And seriously, it is the year of the Linux desktop. I’m shocked at how much “just works” like a Mac. I feel like I have a system that’s more compatible with commercial software than a Mac (thanks Steam/Proton).

illwrks 1y ago
I use Macs for my day job, but personally I switched to Ubuntu (and Windows 11 when I have no choice). I have two older Mac's but they are fit for recycling now.
- dangus 1y ago
  I made the leap due to Mac hardware cost and after seeing the Liquid Metal debacle. I also left iCloud Photos after Apple botched the UI. I also got tired of jumping through hoops that didn’t really work most of the time to play games on Mac (e.g., Crossover). But really, my Mac was an M1 system so I figured that even if I hated my Linux laptop I could just bail on it and get myself an M4 system as a nice upgrade. I was having issues with storage space and of course Macs aren’t upgradable so I have to sell my system and buy a new one to resolve that. I’m very happy with my decision. I run Bazzite with KDE and I’m very happy with the distro.

nailer 1y ago

> Each update seemed to chip away at something I liked about the platform. I have a MBP, 48GB RAM running today's stable version of macOS Sequoia 15.6.1 If I do cmd+space and type something it has 0 results for anything in my Documents folder. It's been that way for momnths despite all the OS updates. macOS used to be good.

illwrks 1y ago
Have you inadvertently set the search privacy on your drive? https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl1bb43b84/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchl1bb43b84/... If that's not the issue try rebuilding your Spotlight search index: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102321 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102321
- saagarjha 1y ago
  No, Spotlight has just been broken for several years. Thankfully Tahoe seems to have improved it a bit for me.
- nailer 1y ago
  Thanks, I wasn't looking for technical support. I did spend some time figuring this out (it was 'sudo mdutil -E /' that fixed it) but my point was: The experience of using macOS, which I pay a large amount of money for, wasn't better than a Linux distribution.

franky47 1y ago

> never use an outdated web browser That part is not going to age well, as browser vendor push updates they tend to drop support for older OS versions.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
Upstream Firefox and Chromium dropped Mavericks ages ago. That's not what I'm using. https://github.com/i3roly/firefox-dynasty/releases https://github.com/i3roly/firefox-dynasty/releases Fully up to date port of Firefox to legacy OS X.

jeffrallen 1y ago

Oh my god, I am so jealous of this guy. Please just make it stop, I want off this crazy upgrade merry-go-round.

zer0zzz 1y ago

I do kinda wonder if we could use these sorts of outdated setups with no internet connection offline for more things

mtillman 1y ago

Love this and might downgrade (upgrade?)from Mojave which is when I stopped upgrading the Mac OS. Apple was still a computer company before Mojave instead of a bank wrapped in an ad network. Or is it an ad network wrapped in a bank? I can’t tell but their new Operating Systems are hot garbage since the old BSD guy left for truenas.

SlowTao 1y ago

So you know how there are different religious factions that broadly have very similar views but they practically go to war due to the variance of small details... screw mavericks, OSX 10.4 Tiger FOREVER!!!!

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
Hey, Tiger is cool, you won't get any shade from me! I would find it extremely difficult to use as a daily driver though, much moreso than Mavericks. I do try to support other old versions of OS X where possible. Aqua Proxy supports Snow Leopard for example, which took some effort. (I wish it could support Tiger too but there's no way to build Go binaries for Tiger.)
- zapzupnz 1y ago
  Not even by compiling Go to WASM, then transpiling WASM to C++, then building the resulting C++ with Tiger's GCC?
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    ...do you think that could actually work? I can't entirely tell if you're joking or not, it's true I never considered this... does WASM code have the network access that would be required for a proxy?
    - piperswe 1y ago
      Looks like there is a project to transpile WASM w/ WASI APIs to portable C: https://github.com/turbolent/w2c2 https://github.com/turbolent/w2c2 Sadly it doesn't seem to support the networking parts of WASI, though. If it did, then it might even be possible to port all the way back to Cheetah
      - zapzupnz 1y ago
        Yep, that's the one I was thinking of. Still, I wonder if the platform's networking could just be added in ex-post facto (disclaimer: never actually touched this, just looked at it)

Lammy 1y ago

> Remove apps and features which don't work anymore, and would just make me sad if I saw them. sudo rm -rf /Library/Widgets/Weather.wdgt Some of these could be fixed if you find a replacement API. Try this modded Weather widget for example: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/weather-dashboard-widget-darksky-mod https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/weather-dashboard-widget-da... And check out Download #2 (`Working_Widgets.zip`) here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/widget-collection-2005-macworld https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/widget-collection-2005-macw...

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
I'm actually the author of those fixed widgets! They are on the website in the app library. (Even though they aren't "apps"... I originally wanted to make a separate page for non-app Mavericks software but it felt weird.) The idea is, remove the nonworking ones to start out since they're broken, and then you can install the working copies.
- Lammy 1y ago
  wow that will teach me to read usernames lol Thank you!

osigurdson 1y ago

>> having the perfect computer, For me, that is a browser and a terminal. Arch is pretty awesome these days for that use case.

immy 1y ago

Wow. Nice hacking.

JZerf 1y ago

I also like the aesthetics of OS X versions prior to 10.10. It is hard to find programs that still support older versions though. To make things easier I'm using the more modern macOS 10.14 but installed a few things to make it look more like 10.9. The file and instructions in https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mavericks-window-control-buttons-for-mojave.2162605/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mavericks-window-contro... change many of the UI elements to look like those in 10.9. Menu Bar Tint (https://manytricks.com/menubartint/ https://manytricks.com/menubartint/) can make the menubar look like the one in 10.9. macOSLucidaGrande (https://github.com/LumingYin/macOSLucidaGrande https://github.com/LumingYin/macOSLucidaGrande) can change the system font back to Lucida Grande like 10.9 used. One annoyance with this though is that the '*' character won't show up in password input fields.

memsom 1y ago

I have a Mac Pro 1,1 and trying this might actually be kind of cool and give it more life. It is pretty limited otherwise and the 3,1 it sits next to is way more practical.

Razengan 1y ago

> I came to a decision. It was time to leave modern macOS behind. It was the opposite for me: I decided to leave Windows behind after a mounting cascade of frustration and disappointment with Microsoft and Their Way of Doing Things. Fast forward to Now: I'm still happy on macOS Tahoe. Apple does some dumb annoying shit too but it hasn't yet gotten to the point where I give up computing altogether and retire to a Tibetan monastery. Or switch to Linux. Whenever I get to look at the current state of Windows it has nothing that makes me want to go back. Sure, like an ex it still has a few things that you wish you could still enjoy, like a few games, but then you remember why you left them in the first place. Some of the things that irk me the most about macOS: • The dumbness or complete lack of documentation about some specific things, specially on the developer side. • Some features touted as hot and sexy during a new release's PR wave and then rotting in a half-baked state. • Some minor bugs remaining unfixed for years. • Most improvements being tied to a major version cycle, even if they could easily be shipped in a minor monthly/quarterly update.

stevenfoster 1y ago

In process of ditching everything Apple by the end of the year. Going all in on Linux. There's trade offs, nothings perfect, but I don't need a big desperate corporation trying to upsell me on cloud storage and AI.

canadaduane 1y ago
One of the best parts, IMO, is the feeling that comes from contributing something to the community that will last--possibly for decades or centuries. To me, using Linux is an experience of gratitude.

oinj 1y ago

Big fan of your OS X stuff! I still have a 11" 2012 MacBook Air with Core i7 and 8 GB RAM, if only I could use it as my everyday machine I'd be very happy! I didn't know about Firefox Dynasty, it's very cool. (Wow, and Archive Plus and Preview Plus… you're killing it!) What's your experience with those shady USB-C to Magsafe 2 cables/adapters? Old MacBook batteries are bound to deplete faster and faster every year, it'd be nice to be able to charge using what's most common nowadays.

Wowfunhappy 1y ago
Thank you! > What's your experience with those shady USB-C to Magsafe 2 cables/adapters? I don't have experience--I would probably try to get a real one. I'm also a big proponent of getting batteries replaced. I know this all costs money, but if you like and are using this computer, make it nice!
- oinj 1y ago
  I've got this idea that third-party batteries are mostly crap and die very fast, but it's based on ≈10 year old experience (although the last official battery on my iPhone SE 2016 was the same)
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    I had the battery in my 2014 Macbook Air replaced by a ubreakifix in Chelsea (New York City) around two years ago, and it's still going strong.
krackers 1y ago
I wouldn't trust the adapters. Maybe in theory it's possible to do it right, bridge PD negotiation to a 1-wire protocol negotiation but you've got to trust that they handled both the usb-c part correctly and the 1-wire part correctly. There's not much rigorous testing I could find online, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6pPDys-s0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6pPDys-s0 tested a few and found that some spark when first connected, which implies they're not doing the 1-wire negotiation properly (real adapters will prevent arcing by sensing if it's connected first before increasing voltage)

shortformblog 1y ago

I like the spirit of this, but I just think Mavericks is a bizarre break point for this type of approach. At least hit Yosemite so you can benefit from NVMe. For me, Mojave feels like the neatest break point, but if you’re rocking Nvidia, there’s also a case for High Sierra.

mattnewton 1y ago
I think Yosemite was out because of the flat design, the author wanted aqua specifically.

deleted 1y ago

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manoDev 1y ago

That was the golden era of Mac. The OS was fast, and Apple software didn’t suck (I still miss Aperture).

nightski 1y ago

Having switched from an x86 laptop to a macbook recently, macos is serviceable but overall terrible. I just want to install Linux at this point so bad. I wish Apple would officially support Asahi Linux. It would cost them nothing in the grand scheme of things.

pentagrama 1y ago

I was curious about how the OS looks like, here is a demo https://youtu.be/lccQ5WhcKko https://youtu.be/lccQ5WhcKko

rurban 1y ago

I preferred Snow Leopard, 10.6 over all others. With Lion the downfall started. And it cracked with the doomed butterfly keyboards, that's when I gave up and switched back to ThinkPads with Fedora. Battery life was nice, but I am not wandering around that much anymore. Those days I did work in the pool with an air.

leakycap 1y ago

Reading "Why Mavericks" made me glad not to be alone in noticing the slow progression toward a general lack of usability in macOS. For me, it started with 10.7 when a lot of things changed just to look different. From then forward, user habits were seemingly not considered and everything moved here and there on a yearly basis. At least with Windows, the major overhauls to Explorer come so slowly that your productivity routines don't get sand in the cogs every year when you update and Apple's OS shifts extremely key parts of the window UI around and makes the hit points even smaller over time. The killer for me is how difficult it is to fix things if you don't like them. Modern macOS has horrendous mouse speed handling, and changing this beyond Apple's very limited settings is a pain. And even then, Windows and Linux and older OS X handled the cursor movement better. I like(d) so much about Apple over the years, but it is clear they're an iPhone company that makes laptops and desktops... not the other way around.