7 ms·
What’s with england and its complete lack of response to this kind of power grabs?
by khalic 1y ago
What’s with england and its complete lack of response to this kind of power grabs?
- mdp2021 1y agoThey wait for the next election.
- yungporko 1y agothere's really nothing anybody can do. protests dont work, riots dont work, petitions dont work, and theres nobody else to vote for who isn't also a cunt.
- chii 1y agomass civil disobedience. Not riots.
- andai 1y agoWhat would that look like?
- khalic 1y agoThere is widely available literature analyzing public disobedience, I suggest you find some reliable source in your favorite learning media. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience
- andai 1y agoThanks. So, Gandhi style peaceful resistance? Would that work in England, the way it did in India occupied by England?
- khalic 1y agoI’m just going to say it: you are wrong, protests, public pressure and civil disobedience are why you have many of the right you have today. I get you don’t have the will/energy/possibility to do anything, but don’t go around telling lies about the usefulness of public intervention.
- doublerabbit 1y ago> you are wrong, protests, public pressure and civil disobedience are why you have many of the right you have today. Once upon a time, yes. But they don't work in the modern world we live in now. Show me a successful protest that achieved change in the past ten years?
- khalic 1y agoWasn’t turkye’s failed coup less than 10 years ago? Direct result of public intervention The French yellow vest The Dutch farmer protests I can go on if you want
- doublerabbit 1y agoThose are European, cool. Any successful UK protests? As that is the country we are talking about here.
- khalic 1y agoAre you going to move the goalpost further if I give you one?
- doublerabbit 1y agoI was specifically targeting protests in the UK. As we are talking about the UK.
- khalic 1y ago
- gambiting 1y agoI really recommend a book called "Moral Ambition" which outlines many examples from history where societal change was made possible through people not protesting or rioting, but through people organising into political organisations which could then implement change - the very first example is of a man who lead the effort for abolition of slavery across the British empire, growing from a single man with an idea to a political force that made the change possible. And that doesn't mean you have to win elections - just grow enough that you are at least consulted on changes like this and treated like a partner not like a pest that has to be squashed and arrested.
- extraisland 1y agoVoting for the alternatives won't make any difference either. The power structure is designed in such a way that it is difficult for the Government itself to do change anything.
- khalic 1y agoThen create a new party, give talks about this, mobilize your friends, family, make them understand that civil liberty is literally worth dying for
- extraisland 1y agoI really get annoyed when someone suggests this (it not your fault). You are believing what you are told at school about how Politics works. Many of us understand this is unrealistic. Here is an incomplete list of reasons why I would never get involved directly in politics: 1. It takes literally decades to get a political party off the ground without major backing. All the new parties that you hear of are bankrolled by elite backing. 2. The way the Government and the civil service is setup is designed so you can't actually make any changes. Dominic Cummings has many interviews he did in the last year you can find where he explains how Whitehall is fundamentally broken. I suggest you listen to them. 3. I have a chequed past. Most of my adult life I was abusing alcohol, and as a consequence of that I have done and said lots of stupid things. A good portion of my extended family are criminals (which I don't associate with for obvious reasons). If I or anything connected to me gain any public appeal at all, I would have all the muck which I've put behind me dragged up. I don't want to expose myself or my family to that.
- khalic 1y agoSorry for your past, happy you got out of it. 1. Listen, yes it’s very hard work, but it’s this or be squeezed until there’s nothing else. And when people start having famines we’ll have a new French Revolution, millions will die, and this will require a lot more energy than doing changes today. 2. Will do, I don’t know enough on that subject to have an opinion on that. But unjust, unmovable systems, like monarchies (wink) have been toppled in the past. Even recently. 3. Sorry I was just using my environment as an example, I meant people that trust you, that you trust. This kind of movement starts small
- tomatocracy 1y agoI think the most effective solution is to work to ensure that people who have sensible views and are able to think in a reasoned way on topics like this stand for election themselves. As much as many people have distaste for the existing parties, a few people getting involved and changing the parties from the inside on one or two topics like this (which are not party political in nature) is likely to be much more effective than standing as or voting for an independent, complaining or protesting.
- L0in 1y agoAnything involved with the electoral process is doomed to fail. The system is designed that way to squash the few voices that want change. It needs uprooting not band-aid.
- L0in 1y agoThey work. But they don't work if your objective is to replace a political party with another one... The problem is the system itself. It needs uprooting. To quote someone: "You give us rights, only because we gave you riots"
- dgroshev 1y agoWe just had the government backtrack on stopping giving money to better off pensioners (WFA) and tightening regulations on disability benefits (PIP) under pressure from the backbenchers and the media. If your preferred cause is not cutting through in that way, it's worth asking what's different about the cause.
- gambiting 1y agoI've lived in the UK for 15 years now and the complete political apathy is probably what bothers me the most about this country. Few years back when they made it so that every ISP had to log your entire browsing history and keep it for a year and 17 different government agencies(including DEFRA, the agriculture ministry!) can access it without a warrant, barely anyone cared. Wasn't really mentioned in public media, other than the standard "we're finally making the internet a safer place against pedos!". When I mentioned it to my friends here the reactions were mostly "meh" to "I don't browse any dodgy sites so why should I care". The other example is when the government changed the student loan rules by raising the allowed annual cost from 3k to about 9k, and also linked the interest to inflation, and increased the number of years that have to pass before the loan gets written off. So just for comparison - I paid 12k for a 4 year MSc Computer Science course, and it had 1.1% interest attached to it. So I paid mine off within few years of starting to work. My sister did her degree just few years after me, and her degree cost her 40k + her interest is 8%. She has a job but her payments barely cover the interest. She will never pay it off, so it will get written off at some point, maybe - but until then it's a permament 10% tax on all of her earnings. It's bonkers. My point is - I feel like in any other country, this kind of economic assassination of entire generation of people would be met with people marching on the capital and burning down cars and setting tyres on fire in front of government buildings in protest. In UK barely anyone cared. Still no one cares. There is no political party that even suggests doing anything about it. So with this new act - it's more of the same. You've heard our government already anyway - saying openly that if you are against this act you are on the same side as Jimmy Saville(one of the worst child rapists this country has ever produced). Essentially you can't be against it in public or you're compared to actual pedophiles. The only politician who even suggests that hey maybe this isn't right is Farage who is a despicable individual for many other reasons. If you want my personal opinion on why that is - British society is extremely comfortable with the status quo. People would rather shrug their arms than actually do something about anything, we're surrounded by history, by buildings standing for the last 1000 years, stability is like the paramount value here. That's not to say Britain hasn't has some of the greatest civil movements in history - but right now, in 2025, the feeling I see everywhere is just apathy.
- khalic 1y ago
- swarnie 1y agoWhy single out England particularly?
- khalic 1y agoBecause the rest of Europe has much stronger reaction to unpopular political decisions
- nickslaughter02 1y agoEU wants to scan every private message you send. Are there protests in the streets? "The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025 – here's everything we know" (https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/the-eu-could-be-scanning-your-chats-by-october-2025-heres-everything-we-know https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/the-eu-co...) "Chat Control is back & we've got two months to stop the EU CSAM scanning plans" (https://tuta.com/blog/chat-control-criticism https://tuta.com/blog/chat-control-criticism)
- khalic 1y agoChat control is being actively campaigned against, and is not yet law. Civil disobedience, demonstrations and other more disruptive forms of protest come after the democratic options have been exhausted. Is this really news to you?
- L0in 1y ago> demonstrations and other more disruptive forms of protest come after the democratic options have been exhausted Are they though?
- nickslaughter02 1y ago> Chat control is being actively campaigned against By a few tech communities with a very limited reach. I refuse to believe at this point that the complete silence on the topic from mainstream media across EU is a coincidence.
- 1y ago
- kindkang2024 1y agoHow to rig freedom? It’s simple: you only need the wille to rig and the power to freely manifest that will. No matter how elegant the design of a democratic system, or how many procedural safeguards exist, nothing can stop you. Sad but true—if there isn’t enough power to balance that wille. May all who value freedom also have the power to defend it.
- jbjbjbjb 1y agoAll the main parties are behind it, some say it doesn’t go far enough. The vast majority of the British public absolutely love to ban things. If you listen to talk radio or daytime tv most of the time they’ll be having a discussion on banning something. We have a nanny state and the public like it that way. Personally I use an allow list for my kids internet access and don’t rely on the state to parent them. I guess that’s too much bother for most people.
- omnicognate 1y ago> allow list for my kids I do the same but let's not pretend that's within the technical ability of the average parent. Of course, it should be and that would be a far better place for the government to direct its efforts.
- jbjbjbjb 1y agoThat’s fair but I use iOS features for it and they do have more simplified set ups like blocking mature content that they define. I wonder how many people take the time to set up screen time for their kids? That is as easy on the level of signing up for a website or managing your online orders.
- nrawe 1y agoI appreciate that with recent articles shared here it might look that way. What is difficult as a Brit reading this is that so little has actually changed that I can't quite grasp what you mean. Firstly, the paper reporting the "power grab" is a national newspaper read by millions. Secondly, as noted in several other places, the spin the newspaper has put on the judgement is deeply cynical. Lastly, this legislation has been in debate for years under multiple governments with a decent (by no means unilateral) amount of public support for some (but distinctly not all) the provisions.
- password54321 1y agoThat requires coordination and corporation in a society that is fragmented. It is hard to have a non-hostile interaction these days let alone unity over an online related issue.
- khalic 1y agoCouldn’t agree more, I try my best but sometimes it’s better to just walk away. We have limited capabilities, and the world has an infinite supply of bad faith it would seem
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]