6 ms·

> The watch is simply missing the two 5.1k resistors connecting the CC1 and CC2 pins of the USB-C connector to ground that are required to indicate to whatever

> The watch is simply missing the two 5.1k resistors connecting the CC1 and CC2 pins of the USB-C connector to ground that are required to indicate to whatever is plugged in that it wants 5v power. This is so annoying. Back when USB-C was less prevalent, I bought a pair of wireless earbuds over another for the same reason as the title - because it used USB-C. But then I cannot charge it with my macbook, unless I add a USB-C to USB-A adapter.

KerrickStaley 1y ago
This problem seems prevalent on cheaper devices. When I buy a device and discover it has this problem I always return it. I've seen it on the Hypervolt Go 2 (which I returned and replaced with a Theragun Mini) and on the Hitachi Magic Wand Micro (which I replaced with a Dame Dip). Like the post mentions, I think this happens because the devices are missing two resistors that are needed to indicate, when connected via a USB-C to USB-C cable to a charging brick, that the device wants 5V power. Resistors are cheap and I think the only reason they get dropped is carelessness. The whole point of USB-C is that you can charge any device with any power supply.
- sschueller 1y ago
  This happens because these devices had USB microB before and the manufacturer just replaced the port without reading the spec. Even some mainstream products have this issue. I have an automatic door opener from a large company and the battery pack has the same issue. It is shipped with a special cable you have to use as no other USB-C cable works.
  - imtringued 1y ago
    There is also another problem. The spec is large and it's not aimed at those who want to implement the simplest possible USB C compliant device. Based on the table of contents the most promising section is "2.3.4 USB Type-C VBUS Current Detection and Usage" but it doesn't actually talk about anything you actually need. You're supposed to click through to the section "4.6.2.1 USB Type-C Current" where it shows the reference circuit, but it doesn't tell you the values of Rd, which are in section "4.11.1 Termination Parameters". It's a 300+ page document where you must already know what you're looking for. If you didn't already know that you need two resistors, you wouldn't be able to figure it out with the spec alone.
    - xg15 1y ago
      Sounds like an "annotated spec" or some guides for implementers would be really useful.
      - michaelt 1y ago
        When you use a well-documented chip, the datasheet will contain diagrams and they'll have a working demo board which they'll give you the full schematic for. Closer to 3 pages than 300. Of course, a person can still get it wrong...
  - numpad0 1y ago
    There's also this dreadful thing[1][2] 1: https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/6/116895.jpg https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/6/116895.jpg 2: https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/3/116895.jpg https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/3/116895.jpg
- Aaargh20318 1y ago
  > This problem seems prevalent on cheaper devices. I’ve seen it on plenty of higher-end devices as well; and even worse. The worst offender I’ve encountered is the TermoWorks Billows. ThermoWorks is a well established brand that makes high end thermometers and is considered one of the best on the market. So I was quite surprised to discover how their ‘Billows’ product is powered. The device itself needs 12v and has a USB-C port for power. You’d think it would do USB-PD to negotiate it’s power needs so you can just use any old USB-C adapter. Not the case. It comes with a USB-A to USB-C cable and requires a special adapter with a USB-A port on it that puts 12v on the pins that normally supply 5v. I have no idea how they came up with this abomination. Why even use USB-A connectors if it’s not going to work with a standard USB-A adapter, and why supply an adapter that’s basically going to kill most USB-A devices you plug into it? If you have a custom adapter anyway, why not just use a simple barrel connector? Why put a USB=C port on the device if it can’t use USB-PD? I can imagine some Chinese ali-express product using such an abomination to save a few cents on components, but why would a well-respected brand like ThermoWorks ship such a thing? It boggles the mind.
  - KnuthIsGod 1y ago
    ThermoWorks products are made in China and marketed to gullible Americans.
    - OJFord 1y ago
      There are high-end brands that spec products to a high standard and have them made (to that standard) in China. But I agree, GP is confusing high-price with high-end. That said, thermometry is pretty easy and well understood and you don't need crazy accuracy for cooking, so 'low-end' is fine really, just don't pay high-price for it.
      - Yeul 1y ago
        The year is 2025 not 1985. If you pay them the Chinese can make you anything you want. The thing is that there are lot of dollar stores in the West that want cheap shit for the paupers. And that is were the bad reputation comes from.
DecentShoes 1y ago
This is insanely common. I have about 6 devices with this problem, and I consider it unforgivable. Not only did you not include USBC charging, you went out of your way to trick me and lie and pretend you did. I would have preferred just using micro usb at that point. Powkiddy committed fraud and said the RGB30 can charge from USB-C, but they lied, it can only charge from USB A to C cables. Using it is a massive pain because I have to get adapters I shouldn't need. I'll never buy anything from them ever again.
- globular-toast 1y ago
  I feel like the USB committee might be somewhat to blame. When most people think USB-C they're just thinking the cable. Why can't it just do regular slow charging with C to C cable?
  - Iulioh 1y ago
    It's not the usb c committee problem, the devices you are buying are out of spec This is because the cable is 2 sided so it can't assume polarity So it's a tradeoff for not having to guess how to insert the cable
    - rcxdude 1y ago
      >This is because the cable is 2 sided so it can't assume polarity Not really. The USB-C connection pinout is symmetric about a 180 degree rotation, at least as far as power connections go. It's entirely possible (and common, e.g. when using passive converters) to just put power out of it constantly. The main reason for the signaling resistors is to avoid having power presented on the pins when it's not connected, which is more about avoiding corrosion or wear due to small sparks on connection.
      - danhor 1y ago
        And to avoid having two sources (perhaps with slightly different voltages) connected together and leading to hijinks. E.g. a usb A-C cable plugged into a USB-C power supply.
xg15 1y ago
Would it be possible to build some kind of adapter or C-to-C cable that just contains the missing resistors? (And also probably would have to block any USB PD communication, in case you plug in any device that actually does try to use PD. So the goal would be that the charger always sees a 5V requesting device without PD support while the device always sees a "dumb" 5V charger - regardless of what capabilities the device and charger really have) It would still suck to have to use a special cable for charging, but at least it's better than not being able to use any modern charger.
- mystifyingpoi 1y ago
  Sure, just grab a C-to-A adapter and A-to-C cable. Doesn't block communication though, you could block it by using a 2-wire A-to-C cable.
  - xg15 1y ago
    OK, that's easier than I thought. And I think it should even block the PD communication as the CC line is not passed through.
ACCount36 1y ago
[dead]
maccard 1y ago
This was exactly my complaint when the USB C standards were coming in - having a universal connector means nothing I you need a specific cable and/or power supply to charge it. You might say it’s not spec compliant and that’s fine - but it’s still a USB C port. We’d all be better off if they had just kept it as micro usb because at least then I’d _know_ I need a different cable for it
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
varenc 1y ago
Here's a simple thing that will fix cheapo electronics with this problem: https://www.tindie.com/products/edison517/usb-chyna/ https://www.tindie.com/products/edison517/usb-chyna/ (it just connects CC1 + CC2 with the appropriate 5.1k resistors)

KerrickStaley 1y ago

This problem seems prevalent on cheaper devices. When I buy a device and discover it has this problem I always return it. I've seen it on the Hypervolt Go 2 (which I returned and replaced with a Theragun Mini) and on the Hitachi Magic Wand Micro (which I replaced with a Dame Dip). Like the post mentions, I think this happens because the devices are missing two resistors that are needed to indicate, when connected via a USB-C to USB-C cable to a charging brick, that the device wants 5V power. Resistors are cheap and I think the only reason they get dropped is carelessness. The whole point of USB-C is that you can charge any device with any power supply.

sschueller 1y ago
This happens because these devices had USB microB before and the manufacturer just replaced the port without reading the spec. Even some mainstream products have this issue. I have an automatic door opener from a large company and the battery pack has the same issue. It is shipped with a special cable you have to use as no other USB-C cable works.
- imtringued 1y ago
  There is also another problem. The spec is large and it's not aimed at those who want to implement the simplest possible USB C compliant device. Based on the table of contents the most promising section is "2.3.4 USB Type-C VBUS Current Detection and Usage" but it doesn't actually talk about anything you actually need. You're supposed to click through to the section "4.6.2.1 USB Type-C Current" where it shows the reference circuit, but it doesn't tell you the values of Rd, which are in section "4.11.1 Termination Parameters". It's a 300+ page document where you must already know what you're looking for. If you didn't already know that you need two resistors, you wouldn't be able to figure it out with the spec alone.
  - xg15 1y ago
    Sounds like an "annotated spec" or some guides for implementers would be really useful.
    - michaelt 1y ago
      When you use a well-documented chip, the datasheet will contain diagrams and they'll have a working demo board which they'll give you the full schematic for. Closer to 3 pages than 300. Of course, a person can still get it wrong...
- numpad0 1y ago
  There's also this dreadful thing[1][2] 1: https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/6/116895.jpg https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/6/116895.jpg 2: https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/3/116895.jpg https://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/3/116895.jpg
Aaargh20318 1y ago
> This problem seems prevalent on cheaper devices. I’ve seen it on plenty of higher-end devices as well; and even worse. The worst offender I’ve encountered is the TermoWorks Billows. ThermoWorks is a well established brand that makes high end thermometers and is considered one of the best on the market. So I was quite surprised to discover how their ‘Billows’ product is powered. The device itself needs 12v and has a USB-C port for power. You’d think it would do USB-PD to negotiate it’s power needs so you can just use any old USB-C adapter. Not the case. It comes with a USB-A to USB-C cable and requires a special adapter with a USB-A port on it that puts 12v on the pins that normally supply 5v. I have no idea how they came up with this abomination. Why even use USB-A connectors if it’s not going to work with a standard USB-A adapter, and why supply an adapter that’s basically going to kill most USB-A devices you plug into it? If you have a custom adapter anyway, why not just use a simple barrel connector? Why put a USB=C port on the device if it can’t use USB-PD? I can imagine some Chinese ali-express product using such an abomination to save a few cents on components, but why would a well-respected brand like ThermoWorks ship such a thing? It boggles the mind.
- KnuthIsGod 1y ago
  ThermoWorks products are made in China and marketed to gullible Americans.
  - OJFord 1y ago
    There are high-end brands that spec products to a high standard and have them made (to that standard) in China. But I agree, GP is confusing high-price with high-end. That said, thermometry is pretty easy and well understood and you don't need crazy accuracy for cooking, so 'low-end' is fine really, just don't pay high-price for it.
    - Yeul 1y ago
      The year is 2025 not 1985. If you pay them the Chinese can make you anything you want. The thing is that there are lot of dollar stores in the West that want cheap shit for the paupers. And that is were the bad reputation comes from.

DecentShoes 1y ago

This is insanely common. I have about 6 devices with this problem, and I consider it unforgivable. Not only did you not include USBC charging, you went out of your way to trick me and lie and pretend you did. I would have preferred just using micro usb at that point. Powkiddy committed fraud and said the RGB30 can charge from USB-C, but they lied, it can only charge from USB A to C cables. Using it is a massive pain because I have to get adapters I shouldn't need. I'll never buy anything from them ever again.

globular-toast 1y ago
I feel like the USB committee might be somewhat to blame. When most people think USB-C they're just thinking the cable. Why can't it just do regular slow charging with C to C cable?
- Iulioh 1y ago
  It's not the usb c committee problem, the devices you are buying are out of spec This is because the cable is 2 sided so it can't assume polarity So it's a tradeoff for not having to guess how to insert the cable
  - rcxdude 1y ago
    >This is because the cable is 2 sided so it can't assume polarity Not really. The USB-C connection pinout is symmetric about a 180 degree rotation, at least as far as power connections go. It's entirely possible (and common, e.g. when using passive converters) to just put power out of it constantly. The main reason for the signaling resistors is to avoid having power presented on the pins when it's not connected, which is more about avoiding corrosion or wear due to small sparks on connection.
    - danhor 1y ago
      And to avoid having two sources (perhaps with slightly different voltages) connected together and leading to hijinks. E.g. a usb A-C cable plugged into a USB-C power supply.

xg15 1y ago

Would it be possible to build some kind of adapter or C-to-C cable that just contains the missing resistors? (And also probably would have to block any USB PD communication, in case you plug in any device that actually does try to use PD. So the goal would be that the charger always sees a 5V requesting device without PD support while the device always sees a "dumb" 5V charger - regardless of what capabilities the device and charger really have) It would still suck to have to use a special cable for charging, but at least it's better than not being able to use any modern charger.

mystifyingpoi 1y ago
Sure, just grab a C-to-A adapter and A-to-C cable. Doesn't block communication though, you could block it by using a 2-wire A-to-C cable.
- xg15 1y ago
  OK, that's easier than I thought. And I think it should even block the PD communication as the CC line is not passed through.

ACCount36 1y ago

[dead]

maccard 1y ago

This was exactly my complaint when the USB C standards were coming in - having a universal connector means nothing I you need a specific cable and/or power supply to charge it. You might say it’s not spec compliant and that’s fine - but it’s still a USB C port. We’d all be better off if they had just kept it as micro usb because at least then I’d _know_ I need a different cable for it

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

varenc 1y ago

Here's a simple thing that will fix cheapo electronics with this problem: https://www.tindie.com/products/edison517/usb-chyna/ https://www.tindie.com/products/edison517/usb-chyna/ (it just connects CC1 + CC2 with the appropriate 5.1k resistors)