5 ms·

i always drag this one out: For a lot of modern history, public hangings were a family affair. Pack up a picnic and go downtown to watch a man hang.

sorcerer-mar 1y ago
Yes, and that was bad. If you prefer a society free of violence (I do), then exposing people to violence in their daily life is bad.
- Supermancho 1y ago
  > If you prefer a society free of violence I would prefer to ride a Unicorn to work. This is pure fantasy. There will always be human violence. Preparing children for it is a lost art in sections of the world. In many civilized/industrialized places, these children (sometimes already matured) are immediately traumatized or pretend it is of no consequence through various rationalizations. It's a cycle that repeats in throughout history.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    We’re currently witnessing what happens when people who know violence works encounter people who think vibes and peaceful protest are effective. I think kids would do well to understand that violence is part of life and how to handle (or use) it.
    - camgunz 1y ago
      I think this is about as well as this can be said--failing to teach kids about bad stuff about humanity isn't protecting them, it's failing them.
      - CalRobert 1y ago
        My wife grew up in a very sheltered church environment where everyone at school and in her life pretty much followed the rules. It didn’t teach her how to handle real life and the real world was a rude awakening. Similarly my older relatives keep saying “but they can’t do that!” About a lot of what’s happening in the US without realising that they very much can. Because nobody is physically stopping them. The exception is my grandfather, who is an honest guy but says he got in some fights in his navy days and ended up better for it. Maybe we need to bring back superheroes who beat the shit out of the bad guys. I want my own daughters to know how to protect themselves with diplomacy-or- violence if the former fails.
        sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        > Maybe we need to bring back superheroes who beat the shit out of the bad guys. Superheroes don't exist and never have. People who work tirelessly to chip away -- often imperceptibly -- at sources of badness exist. That's it.
        CalRobert 1y ago
        I meant the fictional characters.
      - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        Is public hanging "teaching kids about bad stuff?" No.
        camgunz 1y ago
        There's at least a little space between "a world free of violence" and "public hanging".
        sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        I said we should want a world free of violence, and not purposely exposing people to violence as a matter of daily life (such as public hangings) is an important step towards that. Both in the direct sense that public violence is obviously violence, and indirectly in that there's good evidence that exposure to violence increases proclivity to violence. Two simple questions: 1. Do we want a world without violence? 2. If yes, is public hanging a step towards that world, or away from it?
        camgunz 1y ago
        1. I don't think this is possible. I think it's better to pursue a world where violence is unnecessary and aberrant. 2. I'm refusing to indulge your strawman. Let's use something like "is teaching your kid how to deal with bullies a step towards that world or away from it"
        sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        > I don't think this is possible. I think it's better to pursue a world where violence is unnecessary and aberrant. I didn't say it was possible. I said it's worth striving for, and then you stated the same thing with different words. We agree. Ah so you think societies that did public hangings tended to have a strong and reasonable sense of justice. You are wrong. Justice in the sense of "punishing people who are legitimately antisocial" tends to yield less indulgent punishments because they recognize that true justice must be dealt cold and with solemnity. Or do you think it's only a coincidence that the most abhorrent justice systems on the planet do public executions and "civilized" justice systems do not?
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    Spoken like someone who lives in the least violent era of human history. Does the fact that you can't ride a unicorn to work compel you to settle for walking 7 miles barefoot? Or is the sensible thing to do to constantly chip away at sources of badness in the world, even if you can't achieve unicorns? It cracks me up how you try to assert the "realist" position while holding an opinion that only makes sense in a university ethics course. Public hangings don't "prepare" a child for a world with non-zero levels of violence, obviously. Living 4 adults and 8 children to a single-room household doesn't "prepare" a child for anything you'd willingly sign them up to do. Bad things are bad. They should be avoided. You actually think this too and will take action to avoid most bad things that you can. But alas, the Internet comment box is here for you to wisely consider: Maybe bad things are not bad. Very smart, lol.
Aeolun 1y ago
> then exposing people to violence in their daily life is bad Oh my god yes, and we’re doing such a great job of that aren’t we? We have gratuitous violence on demand now. Public hangings are fine compared to what I see on TV/Netflix.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  [flagged]
- LocalH 1y ago
  They don't care about people being desensitized to violence. Need a new generation of soldiers, after all. But sex? Other people being able to see sexual depictions literally gets people's panties in a twist.

sorcerer-mar 1y ago

Yes, and that was bad. If you prefer a society free of violence (I do), then exposing people to violence in their daily life is bad.

Supermancho 1y ago
> If you prefer a society free of violence I would prefer to ride a Unicorn to work. This is pure fantasy. There will always be human violence. Preparing children for it is a lost art in sections of the world. In many civilized/industrialized places, these children (sometimes already matured) are immediately traumatized or pretend it is of no consequence through various rationalizations. It's a cycle that repeats in throughout history.
- CalRobert 1y ago
  We’re currently witnessing what happens when people who know violence works encounter people who think vibes and peaceful protest are effective. I think kids would do well to understand that violence is part of life and how to handle (or use) it.
  - camgunz 1y ago
    I think this is about as well as this can be said--failing to teach kids about bad stuff about humanity isn't protecting them, it's failing them.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      My wife grew up in a very sheltered church environment where everyone at school and in her life pretty much followed the rules. It didn’t teach her how to handle real life and the real world was a rude awakening. Similarly my older relatives keep saying “but they can’t do that!” About a lot of what’s happening in the US without realising that they very much can. Because nobody is physically stopping them. The exception is my grandfather, who is an honest guy but says he got in some fights in his navy days and ended up better for it. Maybe we need to bring back superheroes who beat the shit out of the bad guys. I want my own daughters to know how to protect themselves with diplomacy-or- violence if the former fails.
      - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        > Maybe we need to bring back superheroes who beat the shit out of the bad guys. Superheroes don't exist and never have. People who work tirelessly to chip away -- often imperceptibly -- at sources of badness exist. That's it.
        CalRobert 1y ago
        I meant the fictional characters.
    - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
      Is public hanging "teaching kids about bad stuff?" No.
      - camgunz 1y ago
        There's at least a little space between "a world free of violence" and "public hanging".
        sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        I said we should want a world free of violence, and not purposely exposing people to violence as a matter of daily life (such as public hangings) is an important step towards that. Both in the direct sense that public violence is obviously violence, and indirectly in that there's good evidence that exposure to violence increases proclivity to violence. Two simple questions: 1. Do we want a world without violence? 2. If yes, is public hanging a step towards that world, or away from it?
        camgunz 1y ago
        1. I don't think this is possible. I think it's better to pursue a world where violence is unnecessary and aberrant. 2. I'm refusing to indulge your strawman. Let's use something like "is teaching your kid how to deal with bullies a step towards that world or away from it"
        sorcerer-mar 1y ago
        > I don't think this is possible. I think it's better to pursue a world where violence is unnecessary and aberrant. I didn't say it was possible. I said it's worth striving for, and then you stated the same thing with different words. We agree. Ah so you think societies that did public hangings tended to have a strong and reasonable sense of justice. You are wrong. Justice in the sense of "punishing people who are legitimately antisocial" tends to yield less indulgent punishments because they recognize that true justice must be dealt cold and with solemnity. Or do you think it's only a coincidence that the most abhorrent justice systems on the planet do public executions and "civilized" justice systems do not?
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  Spoken like someone who lives in the least violent era of human history. Does the fact that you can't ride a unicorn to work compel you to settle for walking 7 miles barefoot? Or is the sensible thing to do to constantly chip away at sources of badness in the world, even if you can't achieve unicorns? It cracks me up how you try to assert the "realist" position while holding an opinion that only makes sense in a university ethics course. Public hangings don't "prepare" a child for a world with non-zero levels of violence, obviously. Living 4 adults and 8 children to a single-room household doesn't "prepare" a child for anything you'd willingly sign them up to do. Bad things are bad. They should be avoided. You actually think this too and will take action to avoid most bad things that you can. But alas, the Internet comment box is here for you to wisely consider: Maybe bad things are not bad. Very smart, lol.

Aeolun 1y ago

> then exposing people to violence in their daily life is bad Oh my god yes, and we’re doing such a great job of that aren’t we? We have gratuitous violence on demand now. Public hangings are fine compared to what I see on TV/Netflix.

sorcerer-mar 1y ago
[flagged]
LocalH 1y ago
They don't care about people being desensitized to violence. Need a new generation of soldiers, after all. But sex? Other people being able to see sexual depictions literally gets people's panties in a twist.