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France launches criminal probe of X over alleged algorithm ‘manipulation’
- aspenmayer 1y agoOriginal title edited for length: > France has launched criminal probe of X over alleged algorithm ‘manipulation’, platform says https://archive.is/wA7hr https://archive.is/wA7hr
- sva_ 1y agoDoes France have some laws how an algorithm is allowed to behave?
- dev_l1x_be 1y agoAccording to the imaginatory rules of lawyers / bankers in power.
- xyzal 1y agoMost countries have laws against foreign interference. I presume disproportionately propagating far-right content via algorithm might very well count as such an interference.
- dragonwriter 1y agoApparently while accusations of "foreign interference" are part of the background of the investigation, the actual charges that are the main current focus of the criminal investigation are (roughly translated) modification of an automated data processing system by an organized gang, and fraudulent extraction of data from an automated data processing system by an organized gang. https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files/2025-07/2025-07-11%20-%20CP%20X.pdf https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files...
- bluescrn 1y ago[flagged]
- motorest 1y ago> But disproportionately propagating far-left content is cool. Twitter was already caught hard coding rules to downrank content that reported Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and Russia has been continuously conducting a destabilization campaign in Europe by supporting radical fringe political movements, both far left and far right. Stick to the facts.
- amelius 1y agoHow do you prove it?
- xyzal 1y agoNot that hard really (found only German example though) https://www.linkedin.com/posts/global-witness_globalwitnessinvestigationgermanelections2025-activity-7298220015902679040-JR7-/ https://www.linkedin.com/posts/global-witness_globalwitnessi...
- amelius 1y agoWhat if e.g. right-leaning content gets more likes/upvotes and this makes the algorithm show the posts more? That way, the algorithm can still be neutral, but the result is not.
- aspenmayer 1y ago"The left can't meme" is just one instance of so-called "meme magic" that came good, if good is what you see in the enterprise or if the particular ends justified the memes. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-left-cant-meme https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-left-cant-meme https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/meme-magic https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/meme-magic https://unherd.com/2021/08/why-the-left-cant-meme/ https://unherd.com/2021/08/why-the-left-cant-meme/ | https://web.archive.org/web/20210924231415/https://unherd.com/2021/08/why-the-left-cant-meme/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210924231415/https://unherd.co... https://www.vice.com/en/article/trumps-occult-online-supporters-believe-pepe-meme-magic-got-him-elected/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/trumps-occult-online-support... | https://web.archive.org/web/20170125155034/http://motherboard.vice.com/read/trumps-occult-online-supporters-believe-pepe-meme-magic-got-him-elected https://web.archive.org/web/20170125155034/http://motherboar... As for me? I am beside myself. I view the content as part performance, part farce, all kayfabe. Trump et al learned from the best: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation#A_World_Without_Power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation#A_World_Wit... > In Russia, Vladimir Putin and his cabinet of political technologists create mass confusion. Vladislav Surkov uses ideas from art to turn Russian politics into a bewildering piece of theatre. Donald Trump employs the same techniques in his presidential campaign by using language from Occupy Wall Street. Curtis asserts that Trump "defeated journalism" by rendering its fact-checking abilities irrelevant. > The American Left's attempt to resist Trump on the internet had no effect. In fact, they were just feeding the social media corporations who valued their many additional clicks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov > Vladislav Yuryevich Surkov (Russian: Владислав Юрьевич Сурков; born 21 September 1964) is a Russian politician. He was First Deputy Chief of the Russian Presidential Administration from 1999 to 2011, during which time he was often viewed as the main ideologist of the Kremlin who proposed and implemented the concept of sovereign democracy in Russia. From December 2011 until May 2013, Surkov served as the Russian Federation's Deputy Prime Minister. After his resignation, Surkov returned to the Presidential Executive Office and became a personal adviser of Vladimir Putin on relationships with Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Ukraine. > BBC documentary filmmaker Adam Curtis credits Surkov's blend of theater and politics with keeping Putin, and Putin's chosen successors, in power since 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_democracy > Whilst talking about sovereign democracy in 2006, Mikhail Kasyanov said that "... the aims of this doctrine are quite clear: the concentration and holding of political power and property at any cost. The consequences of this are already evident, including the glorification of populism, the steady destruction of private and public institutions and the departure from the principles of the law, democracy, and the free market." > United States Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Daniel Fried (in office 2005–2009) stated in a 2007 interview: > > I get nervous when people put labels in front of democracy. Sovereign democracy, managed democracy, people's democracy, socialist democracy, Aryan democracy, Islamic democracy—I am not a big fan of adjectives. Managed democracy doesn't sound like democracy. Sovereign democracy strikes me as meaningless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_democracy > Guided democracy, also called directed democracy and managed democracy, is a formally democratic government that functions as a de facto authoritarian government or, in some cases, as an autocratic government. Such hybrid regimes are legitimized by elections, but do not change the state's policies, motives, and goals. > In a guided democracy, the government controls elections such that the people can exercise democratic rights without truly changing public policy. While they follow basic democratic principles, there can be major deviations towards authoritarianism. Under managed democracy, the state's continuous use of propaganda techniques, such as through manufacturing consent, prevents the electorate from having a significant impact on policy. > The concept is also related to semi-democracy, also known as anocracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ve_Got_No_Strings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ve_Got_No_Strings > Down where the Volga flows > There's a Russian rendez-vous > Where me and Ivan go > But I'd rather go with you, hey > There are no strings on me Be well, anon.
- j3th9n 1y agoDefine disproportionately propagating far-right content.
- akie 1y ago[flagged]
- xyzal 1y agoWhere is Mecha Hitler when you need him?
- throw0101b 1y ago> Define disproportionately propagating far-right content. How about: > Elon Musk’s artificial intelligence firm xAI has deleted “inappropriate” posts on X after the company’s chatbot, Grok, began praising Adolf Hitler, referring to itself as MechaHitler and making antisemitic comments in response to user queries. […] > “The white man stands for innovation, grit and not bending to PC nonsense,” Grok said in a subsequent post. * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/09/grok-ai-praised-hitler-antisemitism-x-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/09/grok-ai-p... Or: > In a series of posts – often picking up language from users or responding to their goading – Grok repeatedly abused [Polish PM] Tusk as “a fucking traitor”, “a ginger whore” and said the former European Council president was “an opportunist who sells sovereignty for EU jobs”. * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/08/musks-grok-ai-bot-generates-expletive-laden-rants-to-questions-on-polish-politics https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/08/musks-gro... Or last month's > Elon Musk’s artificial intelligence chatbot Grok had been repeatedly mentioning “white genocide” in South Africa in its responses to unrelated topics and telling users it was “instructed by my creators” to accept the genocide “as real and racially motivated”. * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/14/elon-musk-grok-white-genocide https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/14/elon-musk...
- chrisco255 1y agoA bot went off the rails, and was subsequently corrected. Again, what is the problem? I thought France had freedom of speech but maybe not?
- poulpy123 1y agoI'm not overly familiar with the law and I'm not defending that (I despise both the government and Elon Musk) but there are indeed laws regulating speeches and on top of that laws are flexible and the politician's power over them is quite strong. They had no problem forbidding Russian tv channels in a few days back when the war in Ukraine started
- CrlNvl 1y agoWell, in a way yes. During an election day and the day before, you are not allowed to push official communication (ie a political party can tell you "Go vote" but not "Go vote for us because we will put a stop to immigration") be it via a website, email, mail, etc. See https://presidentielle2022.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/l-election/la-campagne/quelles-sont-les-regles-concernant-la-veille-et-le-jour-du-vote.html https://presidentielle2022.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/l-elec.... So a sponsored post from a political party appearing in your timeline would be an issue due to the platform if it ignores these rules.
- johnecheck 1y agoWhat constitutes illegal algorithm manipulation? What obligations to impartiality do digital space providers like Musk/X have? Not sure what laws exist but it seems tricky to design a coherent legal standard around what sorts of algorithms are allowed. I'd rather just be able to choose between open-source algorithms, that way we can just not use the one that pushes {Billionaire}'s latest post to the top.
- dev_l1x_be 1y agoWhatever the state does not like.
- throw0101b 1y ago> What constitutes illegal algorithm manipulation? What obligations to impartiality do digital space providers like Musk/X have? From another comment that found the statute (in French): * https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006149839 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006149839
- rawling 1y agoThose all seem to me to be "altering a system against the wishes of the owners", hopefully not "altering a system you own against the wishes of the state". (auto translation) > Fraudulently accessing or maintaining access to all or part of an automated data processing system is punishable by three years' imprisonment and a fine of €100,000. > Where this results in either the deletion or modification of data contained in the system, or an alteration of the functioning of this system, the penalty is five years' imprisonment and a fine of €150,000. Unless I've missed something more specific lower down.
- neonate 1y agohttps://archive.is/wA7hr https://archive.is/wA7hr
- aredox 1y agoTo answer the questions the first commenters already have but didn't bother to search for: the accusation is « altération du fonctionnement d’un système de traitement automatisé de données en bande organisée » and « extraction frauduleuse de données d’un système de traitement automatisé de données en bande organisée ». https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006149839 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006149839
- piker 1y ago[flagged]
- aredox 1y agoSorry for using French words here. Apparently there is no automated translation available anywhere on the internet. Nor does it seems possible to search "X enquete france" on any search engine to find more details.
- williamdclt 1y agoThese are hard to translate as they're so long-winded, here's a try > altération du fonctionnement d’un système de traitement automatisé de données en bande organisée Alteration/manipulation of a data processing system by an organised group of people. > extraction frauduleuse de données d’un système de traitement automatisé de données en bande organisée Fraudulent data extraction from a data processing system "organised group of people" is terrible translation, it means it's in the realm of organised crime.
- LightBug1 1y agoGood. Personally, I hope France flushes Twitter down the Xitter and enables a model for other countries to do the same.
- poulpy123 1y agoIt's not that I like twitter but believing that the current government (or whatever one that is able to replace it) will give an interesting model providing both free speech and a reasonable regulation is a joke
- LightBug1 1y agoSo, what you're saying is, that you expect the French government will be about as effective as Xitter senior leadership, and possibly worse. That's a fair point actually ...
- jay-barronville 1y agoX isn't going anywhere.
- throw0101b 1y agoIs this different than the investigation that was opened on July 11? * https://www.lemonde.fr/en/pixels/article/2025/07/11/france-probes-x-over-foreign-interference-as-investigation-closes-in-on-musk_6743280_13.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/pixels/article/2025/07/11/france-p... * https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/11/france-is-investigating-x-over-foreign-interference-while-a-mp-also-criticizes-grok/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/11/france-is-investigating-x-... * FR: https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files/2025-07/2025-07-11%20-%20CP%20X.pdf https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files...
- jay-barronville 1y agoBased on all available evidence, I tend to agree with X that this "investigation" does, in fact, appear to be politically motivated. I don't see any substantive evidence to the contrary.
- OtherShrezzing 1y agoX are simultaneously saying they've not been made aware of the allegations, but that they deny the allegations, and that the allegations are politically motivated.
- retinaros 1y agothey are politically motivated. french gov wants a far-left researcher to investigate the algorithm. this guy was also famous for building a “leaveX” movement in france and there was a debate on the ties with CNRS and on wether they used public funding to campaign against X. “ French authorities have requested access to X’s recommendation algorithm and real-time data about all user posts on the platform in order for several “experts” to analyze the data and purportedly “uncover the truth” about the operation of the X platform. One of those “experts” is David Chavalarias, who spearheads the “Escape X” campaign. Formerly known as “HelloQuitteX”, the campaign is dedicated to encouraging X users to leave the platform. A second “expert,” Maziyar Panahi, has previously participated in research projects with David Chavalarias that demonstrate open hostility towards X.”
- archagon 1y agoPlease define “far left.”
- retinaros 1y agothe one that is banned in south korea, indonesia, georgia, slovakia, hungary, croatia, poland , czech republic, lithuania, ukraine
- LightBug1 1y agoHorses for courses ... Considering the prevalence of far right figures in politics right now then, if you're correct, I'd take that one on the chin. Want a more balanced approach? Don't have 4chan ass kisser as your CEO.
- storus 1y agoOK, so EU is allowed to manipulate social media under various threats, and now when some social media says enough of this, they are criminalized? And people are applauding it?
- xyzal 1y agoThose threats are called "laws". We strive to the ideal of living in a society that respects laws. Twitter/X is free to leave if they don't like it, of course.
- bluecalm 1y agoYeah but then laws need to be clear, understandable and possible to enforce fairly. What is X accused of specifically? "Algorithm manipulation" doesn't sound like a crime to me.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> What is X accused of specifically? Nothing. There is an investigation (there are named offenses that are the main, but not stated as exclusive, focus), not an accusation against X and various individuals. The investigation may, depending on what it finds, result in accusations against some or all of the people on whom the investigation is focused, but whether it will and what the accusations will be is not known until the investigation has occurred.
- xyzal 1y agoI bet on 'foreign interference'
- storus 1y agoThat's becoming the new "think of the children".
- orwin 1y agoIt is if you find criminal intent. They probably won't find any, so the probe won't end up in a lawsuit. Basically it's a discovery process before a litigation. I'm 99.99% sure it won't end up in a lawsuit. My bet is that the probe will end up saying: 'criminal intent can't be proven'. Then either the parquet (basically DOJ but less political) or customer protection will say "this probe showed that your algorithm wasn't neutral, you choose which content to show and which not show, you're a publisher now" and Twitter will have to prove it's not, or be treated as a publisher.
- nashashmi 1y agoStrange case. After the TikTok Israel saga, we all know that there are some form of algorithm manipulation or lack of manipulation going on, and if that manipulation is not favorable, then there’s a bill called for the sale of such a company to some western aligned that country. So now France wants to criminally prosecute as though they violated some existing law?
- xyzal 1y agoExcuse me, what was 'TikTok Israel saga'?
- gruez 1y agoViews on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict on tiktok is predominantly anti-Israel/pro-Palestine, which some accuse is a result of Tiktok is rigging the algorithm.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> Views on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict on tiktok is predominantly anti-Israel/pro-Palestine From most evidence, that's true if you replace "tiktok" with "Earth", too. > which some accuse is a result of Tiktok is rigging the algorithm. TikTok could be rigging the algorithm, but there's lots of evidence from other channels that the described result is what you'd expect if they weren't. Even in the Western countries where Israel's support has been strong, public support has generally cratered in recent years as the long policy of genocide in Palestine has been particularly undisguised in Gaza. Basically only the American Right (excited as they are about doing an ethnic cleansing at home) remains very strongly in support of Israel. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/03/most-people-across-24-surveyed-countries-have-negative-views-of-israel-and-netanyahu/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/03/most-peop...
- LightBug1 1y agoI'd love to see the stats on that considering everyone's algorithmic approach. I often see anti-Israeli-government/pro-Palestinian/anti-genocide content across my platforms and, when lazy, I'll wonder why then there isn't more change. And then I wake up and realise again that I'm in a bubble. Other bubbles may vary.
- phendrenad2 1y agoSo they're basically accusing Twitter of violating an anti-hacking law, by manipulating their own algorithm. Fantastic.
- orwin 1y agoYes, basically. They won't find criminal intent, so that probe won't end in a lawsuit, but I bet it will end up changing Twitter status from hosting service to publisher.
- retinaros 1y agofreedom of speech is above everything. France and Europe have been pushing narratives to hinder this under the premises of fighting evil (at the moment far right). first they wanted to track any cash usage to fight "terrorism" now they want to watch over social network and remove anonymity from the web. just like they cried over deepseek not talking about tiananmen they opressed people that criticized the left-leaning propaganda baked into the GPTs/Anthropic. in a few years we will have social points like china and those who disagree with left-leaning ideas and government interventionism will be reduced to silence or even jailed.
- aredox 1y ago>those who disagree with left-leaning ideas The current governemtn is close to the far-right, there are more and more attacks on muslim people without much of a eep from the government, there are openly neofascists manifestations in the streets of Paris (not even just far-right, open fascist)... https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2025/05/13/extreme-droite-l-autorisation-de-defile-du-10-mai-en-question_6605842_823448.html https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2025/05/13/extreme-...
- retinaros 1y agomacron is surrounded by people from the left, he was minister under a leftist government which paved the way to his first term, most of his policies are left-leaning: strong state interventionism, strong government spending, protection of retirements pensions, suppression of tax on renters, The immigration record for the past year exceeded all forecasts. Visas rose by 16.8%, reaching 2,858,083 in 2024, he is even trying to regularize illegal immigrants in some industries. I really don't know what media you are watching but you should stick to the facts. the majority of attacks and acts of vandalism are against christians in France (from the order of 9-10 times more) and acts of vandalism/violence on muslims actually decreasing year after year (around 130 right now). You can push some propaganda or vision of what is France but numbers matter and looking at numbers we are a failing left leaning government that increased debt and spending like crazy and is now trying to backtrack on many topics because what is looming is what happened to the greeks.
- mvdtnz 1y agoWhat does it mean to manipulate your own algorithm?
- archagon 1y agoSome things are no longer "yours" once you put them out into the commons.